Rocky - Mafia game thread

[Smashmouth]

JIF insulates himself for changing his mind. Bullsh*t.

Smash commenting on my JIF case. I guess not good enough points for Smash to vote JIF... 

and I'm surprised JIF taking credit for "prodding ape" only got an eye roll... it was absolutely bullsh*t.

I made it very clear I could go in the JIF or 80 direction at that time. I had my vote on JIF and then went to bed which is where my vote stayed until the 80 train popped up to the point of me hammering 80. So if you were not skimming you would know that I guess. 80 could have easily avoided his lynch but he didn't seem to care so ....

[Gone]

Sorry guys, been busy. Still am.

I managed to sorta skim through the night talk. Ftr, Ape, I said I was gonna reread 80, not the game. I don't have time to reread the entire game. 80 was the one that stuck out the most to me so he's the one I decided to explore. I stand behind what I said. His entire demeanor was pinging. Obviously I was wrong. It happens.

[Integrity28]

hard to say that when I agreed with most of them.  makes me kind of sick to say but I think he's playing well.  really well if he winds up being dirty.

Agreed, and that's what is driving me to him. He's playing similar to how you described ctm. Jellyfish. For me I expect that from ctm, but for verb it seems different... And I'm always poking for a pattern of suggesting guilt without follow through, verb isn't leading any cases, he's seeding them to see what sticks... Or "nudging"

[Gone]

I think Ape is prolly town.  My impression is that he believes what he's saying and while I don't like him changing his tune a lot, that in itself isn't scummy. I know that as town I tend to change my mind if warranted. I'm a lot more cautious about it as scum.

As far as JiF goes I was sorta ok with him in the beginning as far as how he handled 80. I didn't quite see what Ape saw irt him early in the game. But now with the two flips and seeing how happy he is with himself.... im starting to get some pretty bad juju. I'd want to ISO him for specifics but I dont wanna promise something I prolly cant deliver. 

Still good with Verbal. Pac's catch up seemed fine. Glad he has more time now. Lizzie still dumb. I hope I dont have my blinders on irt him.

Nolder needs to play or die. And Ballin is starting to bother me in the sense that he's being kinda quiet and coy and I sorta expected him to come out of his shell by now since he was so eager to play. He doesn't strike me as shy... so what gives? I don't get an inquisitive vibe from him at all.

 

[Integrity28]

I made it very clear I could go in the JIF or 80 direction at that time. I had my vote on JIF and then went to bed which is where my vote stayed until the 80 train popped up to the point of me hammering 80. So if you were not skimming you would know that I guess. 80 could have easily avoided his lynch but he didn't seem to care so ....

I just quoted and analyzed 50+ posts, Ina pretty detailed reread...but yea, I skim.

I stand by my remark on that specific post. I'm glad all you could see fit to react to in all of that is defending yourself... 

 

[Gone]

I have to take off. I'll be bsck later.

[Integrity28]

I have to take off. I'll be bsck later.

Cool.

When you come back, don't defend against me with "I said I would be busy", because I considered heavily the things you said you have going on when thinking through which alignment you're playing with. It has nothing to do with my suspicion.

Thanks. 

[Integrity28]

ok..  actually the read through was more entertaining than I feared. 

Tier 1: LK, Ballsac, JC, Nolder

Tier 2: CTM, JiF

At this point my strongest town read is Verb..  he's been active with game related posts and defended well when his words were misconstrued.

I didn't see the case on Smash but he had a couple questionable posts most significantly when he basically acquiesced to the Ape and voted JiF as some sort of half-assed gesture of good will

LK was active early on but retreated for the hills when starting to get pressured

JC hasn't had very many lucid posts and I hate when someone implies they're roled up then goes dark

CTM is playing like a jellyfish...  tossing around gentle innuendo then worming his way back into the ether

JiF freaked out over zero, then 1 vote.

Ballsac already played the babe in the woods card which I've caught numerous first time players on

Nolder is playing like a nightcrawler.  coming out in when the thread is dank in disgusting fashion and making himself an easy target to get stepped on in the morning

Ape is Apeing..  The self vote was absurd as were many of his day 1 proclamations but I have yet to see the tells I look for when he's scum

Nyn hard to tell..  didn't do much early, came on a little, then faded back into the background.  seems busy more than hiding.

 

Good lists.

I view some things a little different, but in general I think you see much of the game the way I have. In the case of LK, I think he's been so blatantly scummy that I've assumed he can't be scum. Scum knows how to avoid looking dirty, because they know more than us. That said, LK isn't good at mafia, so he may be an exception to that rule - so I support any effort to pressure him and get a further read.

Totally agree with JC and Ballsack.

I see what you do with CTM, but am more concerned with Verbal. I feel he's done far more nudging, hasn't followed through by taking risk by leading any case based on his observations, and that leads me to think he is seeding suspicion and keeping his hands clean. I think there's more to JIF's play than what you get into in your re-read, and for me he has hit on a couple of usual scum tells.

Overall, good stuff... if you're scum, this is the best I've seen you play as scum in a long time. I don't believe that to be the case though.

[Integrity28]

I think Ape is prolly town.  My impression is that he believes what he's saying and while I don't like him changing his tune a lot, that in itself isn't scummy. I know that as town I tend to change my mind if warranted. I'm a lot more cautious about it as scum.

As far as JiF goes I was sorta ok with him in the beginning as far as how he handled 80. I didn't quite see what Ape saw irt him early in the game. But now with the two flips and seeing how happy he is with himself.... im starting to get some pretty bad juju. I'd want to ISO him for specifics but I dont wanna promise something I prolly cant deliver. 

Still good with Verbal. Pac's catch up seemed fine. Glad he has more time now. Lizzie still dumb. I hope I dont have my blinders on irt him.

Nolder needs to play or die. And Ballin is starting to bother me in the sense that he's being kinda quiet and coy and I sorta expected him to come out of his shell by now since he was so eager to play. He doesn't strike me as shy... so what gives? I don't get an inquisitive vibe from him at all.

 

The bold is my favorite observation from you, for the record.

I feel like you missed a couple people here... JC? Smash? Is there more, I can't remember it's early...

[Integrity28]

Alright, as everyone else checks in, I asked them to observe one other thing while they catch up on quite a lot of posts by Pac and me last night... 

Nobody voting me is doing so with an actual case that suggests I'm scum.

- Smash is back-tracking on his activity yesterday, basically saying I bullied him off of me yesterday so he could vote elsewhere, and now going back to his "gut feeling" - which reeks of copout voting, the type of vote that he'll then blame on me when I flip town

- JC is soft-claiming that JIF is town, I guess, and then voting me... JIF's alignment has nothing to do with mine, if he's town it would just make me wrong, not scum... and JC is far too experienced a player to soft-claim an investigative result on a townie, without it providing a conclusive "catch" of scum, the proposition of what his play suggests is illogical and a bad play by any town investigative role... and underneath all of that, he's just voting me because I called him scum on D1, it's OMGUS veiled by some other goofy sh*t

- LK is voting me because I post a lot... that's not a case, certainly not indicative of my alignment

You'll notice I didn't even defend myself. How can I? There's no substance. Instead, I put my true reads on everything to this point in the thread, in case they get away with a lazy, no-thought lynch on me.

If you cannot see the high-risk intentions of how I've been playing, then it's because we've been on a break. Not because I'm scum.

[CTM]

I have a very busy day today but will try and check in as I can. I skimmed a bit and am surprised by the run up on Ape, especially because it had some of the same characters that moved swiftly to 80 end of day 1. If they are scum, could they be this transparent?

Not so glad to see pac has made his flamboyant return, but given that he's clearly putting the effort in, I feel like that even though he's an obnoxious douche, I'm leaning town obnoxious douche atm.

Also, JC's post reads a lot like a claim without claiming, I'm not sure what to make of it. Considering JC and Jif are both in my top 3, I'm tempted to think it's an intentionally vague  gambit so he can later back out of it if need be, but again, can they really be this transparent? The end result though is I was leaning towards a JIF vote today, and am now given pause. I think JC should commit to w/e he's hinting at, if he's cop with an innocent, he's said enough to get him self targeted tonight.

[Integrity28]

I have a very busy day today but will try and check in as I can. I skimmed a bit and am surprised by the run up on Ape, especially because it had some of the same characters that moved swiftly to 80 end of day 1. If they are scum, could they be this transparent?

Not so glad to see pac has made his flamboyant return, but given that he's clearly putting the effort in, I feel like that even though he's an obnoxious douche, I'm leaning town obnoxious douche atm.

Also, JC's post reads a lot like a claim without claiming, I'm not sure what to make of it. Considering JC and Jif are both in my top 3, I'm tempted to think it's an intentionally vague  gambit so he can later back out of it if need be, but again, can they really be this transparent? The end result though is I was leaning towards a JIF vote today, and am now given pause. I think JC should commit to w/e he's hinting at, if he's cop with an innocent, he's said enough to get him self targeted tonight.

I'm leaning yes.

I'm also thinking that with one death last night, but several indications that there could have easily been a vig kill, that it's very feasible that crusher was shot by a vig, and scum thinks they shot at the doc, and know who he is.

So, JC's soft claim accomplishes several things:

• asks the doc to protect JC tonight, which would leave the doc exposed
• asks the town to accept that an investigative role would reveal with nothing but a town read, which is preposterous
• asks the town to lynch me (a townie)
• puts the town in a position where if/when we realize JC is lying, several deaths (lynch me today, at least 1 NK after my lynch, then lynch JC tomorrow, then NK, then you get to question JIF) will have to occur before the town even gets to prod JIF, run the math on this... it could really eff the town

As much as I want to vote JC... I'm voting JIF, for this reason.

[JiFtheOracle]

Fear me bitches!!!!!   GO TOWN!!!!!

This game sucks. 

[JiFtheOracle]

JiF is town.

Vote Ape

Yes, I am town but I really dont get this post.  No way you soft claim like this and pronounce a townie.  

Probably the most interesting post of the game.   Not sure what to make of it.  Catching up now.

[JiFtheOracle]

Well, the good thing after reading that spam of bull sh*t is, the Ape has narrowed it down to 5 players.

lmfao

[Verbal]

Thanks for trying to tutor me.  If I ever become a good player I'll owe it all to you.

I like this guy.

All these suggestive posts by Verbal without him applying himself towards a case don't bother you?

You say you agree with me on most of them, but then you say I'm scum because I haven't pushed any cases on D1?  Don't you think that sounds a bit weak, even for you?

[JiFtheOracle]

The Ape is unreal.  I'm waiting to hear back from JC but lets look at how Ape has played this game:

He's been lying and spinning, all game long.  

He tied 3 people together on D1 which is never town move.  One of which was lynched and flipped town. This was a lynch he supported until he saw that 80 was a power role. Then he back tracked and claimed it "reeked".  I cant speak for Smash, but I know I'm town.  So great D1 play by the self proclaimed best D1 scum hunting master.

He's been casing people on what I'd consider lulz votes and posts, way early in the game when he knows damn well you cant take serious.  

His quoting of every post, was mearly a faux attempt at scum hunting.  He was narrowed focused on a townie, me, for 2 straight days, completely ignoring the most glaring play of the game so far in JC. 

He's created cases based off of false meta, at least in regards to me which is ironic since he claimed that I was doing the same earlier.  

He's contradicted himself numerous times.  

He's using me changing my position on people as a sign of guilt, which is probably the most damning thing he's done so far considering this entire game is about changing your position on people as new evidence surfaces. 

 

[Verbal]

I'd really like JC to come back and provide more detail into what that post means.  But he won't be back until the workday is over, so I really don't want any lynch occurring before he has a chance to explain.

[JiFtheOracle]

Ok - edit:  I see he addressed the JC thing above.

[Verbal]

@JiF, contradicting yourself that much is probably more of a towntell than a scumtell.  Scum players are more careful than that, even dumb Apes.

 

The thing that pings the most for me is his constant changing of positions.  I know he'll go on and on about how he does this regardless of alignment, but IMO that isn't completely accurate.

[BallinPB]

Ape reminds me of my boss.

He think he knows it all.  He can spin anything to make himself look good in the eyes of everyone else.  

I'm suspicious of him.  He's literally thrown everyone under the bus in here so that I guess when one of them is correct he can take credit for it.  

[Verbal]

Ape reminds me of my boss.

He think he knows it all.  He can spin anything to make himself look good in the eyes of everyone else.  

I'm suspicious of him.  He's literally thrown everyone under the bus in here so that I guess when one of them is correct he can take credit for it.  

Welcome to the Ape.

[JiFtheOracle]

I think Ape is prolly town.  My impression is that he believes what he's saying and while I don't like him changing his tune a lot, that in itself isn't scummy. I know that as town I tend to change my mind if warranted. I'm a lot more cautious about it as scum.

As far as JiF goes I was sorta ok with him in the beginning as far as how he handled 80. I didn't quite see what Ape saw irt him early in the game. But now with the two flips and seeing how happy he is with himself.... im starting to get some pretty bad juju. I'd want to ISO him for specifics but I dont wanna promise something I prolly cant deliver. 

Still good with Verbal. Pac's catch up seemed fine. Glad he has more time now. Lizzie still dumb. I hope I dont have my blinders on irt him.

Nolder needs to play or die. And Ballin is starting to bother me in the sense that he's being kinda quiet and coy and I sorta expected him to come out of his shell by now since he was so eager to play. He doesn't strike me as shy... so what gives? I don't get an inquisitive vibe from him at all.

 

Interesting quote from Nyn.

1 - I dont know how I've come across happy with myself.  weird comment.  I clearly showed my displeasure in our D1 shenanigans. It was lazy, typical JN mafia.  JiF vs. 80.  Literally no imagination around here.  Same sh*t, just a different game.

2 - I havent posted since Crusher flipped till just now.

Was this a slip? 

I know Nyn is busy and what not but she's usually a very good town asset.  Not so much this game.  Seems like she's going through the motions and this post is damning. 

[JiFtheOracle]

@JiF, contradicting yourself that much is probably more of a towntell than a scumtell.  Scum players are more careful than that, even dumb Apes.

 

The thing that pings the most for me is his constant changing of positions.  I know he'll go on and on about how he does this regardless of alignment, but IMO that isn't completely accurate.

Interesting, I dont have a problem with the changing of positions as it pertains to players.  That's mafia.  And we know that the Ape at some point is going to FOS the entire game (not sure if you noticed he narrowed it down to 5 players).  In fact, I have a problem with him trying to use that against me (contradiction), when that's what this is all about.  If you just stayed put on one person the entire game, how does that help you figure anything out? 

Now, the changing of positions from a back tracking perspective ie: JF80's lynch.  That's a different story.

 

Ape reminds me of my boss.

He think he knows it all.  He can spin anything to make himself look good in the eyes of everyone else.  

I'm suspicious of him.  He's literally thrown everyone under the bus in here so that I guess when one of them is correct he can take credit for it.  

This is what he does so at the end of the game, he can say I told you so.  And then we all laugh at him because he at some point will literally FOS the entire game, every game. The problem with it is, he can use it as cover and often does. 

[Nolder]

idk wtf is going on ive been up 21 hours and now im going to bed sorry

[Gone]

Cool.

When you come back, don't defend against me with "I said I would be busy", because I considered heavily the things you said you have going on when thinking through which alignment you're playing with. It has nothing to do with my suspicion.

Thanks. 

That's fine. When Verbal and JC pointed out that I was less involved I said they were right. I can't argue something like that. It's a fact and it's either gonna be accepted as null or not. That's out of my hands.

If you're saying this because of what I said earlier about the reread, that wasnt a "oy, I'm busy" defense. I was simply correcting what you said. Which was that I promised a game reread and didn't deliver. But I did not make that promise. It was a 80 iso.

[Integrity28]

I like this guy.

 

You say you agree with me on most of them, but then you say I'm scum because I haven't pushed any cases on D1?  Don't you think that sounds a bit weak, even for you?

Nope, not at all. 

I've got a well-established history of believing super-clean players are scum. That applies here. 

Terrible defense, btw. You're again appealing to others, similar to the suggestive stuff I've pointed out, rather than actually defending yourself. It's like every post you make you want to be a display of towniness... it's a form of exhibition. It's very well done, but it doesn't resonate as how a townie approaches the game. You comes across informed, and able to play traffic cop in a sense, knowing just how much to suggest, without committing to anything.

It's subtle. Again, very well played, but I think you're dirty. That's all I've got to say about it really.

[Gone]

The bold is my favorite observation from you, for the record.

I feel like you missed a couple people here... JC? Smash? Is there more, I can't remember it's early...

I'm unsure.  JC I keep misreading so I have zero cconfidence. It's easy for me to find him scummy because he keeps doing one liner votes with vague or no explanation.  At the same time people he voted for... nolder... 80.... were people that I took note of as well. And there's the soft claim from today. So we'll see what he says when he shows. But I dont have a concrete read.

Smash is also a bit of a question mark. I didn't get much from him and JiF taking a piss at ya or his bickering with you. I do however think his tone seems a lot better now than his earlier posts. And he was also in the right when he was brushing off people who were FoSing him for providing more content than he usually does on D1. This isnt the first time he gets heat for an old meta. I've seen him been substantially involved on d1 before so it could be a sign of him being taken for a ride. 

[Integrity28]

That's fine. When Verbal and JC pointed out that I was less involved I said they were right. I can't argue something like that. It's a fact and it's either gonna be accepted as null or not. That's out of my hands.

If you're saying this because of what I said earlier about the reread, that wasnt a "oy, I'm busy" defense. I was simply correcting what you said. Which was that I promised a game reread and didn't deliver. But I did not make that promise. It was a 80 iso.

Again, you aren't saying anything. You are talking about the semantics of how busy you are. I accept that as null. 

I'd like you to talk about the game, not your inability to hit your meta because you are busy. Your plays feels like you're tiptoeing a bit around interaction, so that you don't get tangled up in it and make a mistake. That's my read, in a nutshell. I don't care if you can't participate a lot, but participate relevantly so we can read you... you've got a ton of fluff.

[Integrity28]

Ape reminds me of my boss.

He think he knows it all.  He can spin anything to make himself look good in the eyes of everyone else.  

I'm suspicious of him.  He's literally thrown everyone under the bus in here so that I guess when one of them is correct he can take credit for it.  

Yes, that's the running joke with me... when I'm town. There's NO argument for why a scum player would want to be right about who is scum in the end of the game.

You're unintentionally acknowledging that I'm town...

Let's be clear about one thing too. Townies can and do change their reads. This townie floats bad reads to trap scum, always. Acting like a buffoon in night phase is a way of avoiding NK, wifom'ing scum, and again making myself bait for scum to lynch on D2. It's all pretty typical town strategy for me. Anyone pushing this as scum meta on me is lying.

[Integrity28]

The Ape is unreal.  I'm waiting to hear back from JC but lets look at how Ape has played this game:

He's been lying and spinning, all game long.  

He tied 3 people together on D1 which is never town move.  One of which was lynched and flipped town. This was a lynch he supported until he saw that 80 was a power role. Then he back tracked and claimed it "reeked".  I cant speak for Smash, but I know I'm town.  So great D1 play by the self proclaimed best D1 scum hunting master.

He's been casing people on what I'd consider lulz votes and posts, way early in the game when he knows damn well you cant take serious.  

His quoting of every post, was mearly a faux attempt at scum hunting.  He was narrowed focused on a townie, me, for 2 straight days, completely ignoring the most glaring play of the game so far in JC. 

He's created cases based off of false meta, at least in regards to me which is ironic since he claimed that I was doing the same earlier.  

He's contradicted himself numerous times.  

He's using me changing my position on people as a sign of guilt, which is probably the most damning thing he's done so far considering this entire game is about changing your position on people as new evidence surfaces. 

 

Never lied. You just tried to make it look that way.

Connect the dots is something I used to do as a townie, and did on D1 to see how people reacted. JIF as a scum hunter can sense a reaction test.

You're spinning the "reeked" part of the 80 lynch. I said 80 was a good lynch, meaning a good death. The train reeked. Major spin from you here.

I haven't cased anyone on a joke vote. That's a lie.

I didn't ingore JC's play. I have several responses to it, the re-read posts were helping frame all of my suspicion in case JC's play was successful. In other words, that whole re-read was PROMPTED by JC's play. The complete oppostive of ignoring it. Again, spin from you.

I haven't based anything on false meta. You're doing that. Another lie from you.

My contradictions aren't a scum tell. This is false meta, from you.

No, I'm not using you changing position as guilt. That's got nothing to do with my case. Again, lies and spin.

I've never been so convinced you are scum. 

Oh, here is the kicker by the way... every time I am scum, and JIF is town, I use him to destroy the town with his horrific townie play. Why would I dedicate myself, if I'm scum, to going after just him for 2 straight day phases?

Vote for JIF, you dumb ****s.

[Integrity28]

I'd really like JC to come back and provide more detail into what that post means.  But he won't be back until the workday is over, so I really don't want any lynch occurring before he has a chance to explain.

What are your thoughts on JIF?

I'd like you to do something other than nudge others into running with suspicions you point out.

[Integrity28]

Ok - edit:  I see he addressed the JC thing above.

Liar.

[Integrity28]

@JiF, contradicting yourself that much is probably more of a towntell than a scumtell.  Scum players are more careful than that, even dumb Apes.

 

The thing that pings the most for me is his constant changing of positions.  I know he'll go on and on about how he does this regardless of alignment, but IMO that isn't completely accurate.

How has it been constant?

lynching 80 was good for info, from that standpoint it was a good lynch

that said, his lynch train reeked

I said both, a train can be both. This isn't a contradiction.

Other than that, the fluidity of D1 suspicion isn't a scum tell, it's a town tell. I'm doing it in a highly visible way. Scum changing positions wouldn't be this visible. They'd be more subtle. 

Is this everyone's first time playing? Good grief.

[Gone]

Interesting quote from Nyn.

1 - I dont know how I've come across happy with myself.  weird comment.  I clearly showed my displeasure in our D1 shenanigans. It was lazy, typical JN mafia.  JiF vs. 80.  Literally no imagination around here.  Same sh*t, just a different game.

2 - I havent posted since Crusher flipped till just now.

Was this a slip? 

I know Nyn is busy and what not but she's usually a very good town asset.  Not so much this game.  Seems like she's going through the motions and this post is damning. 

You've been sitting on your ass, pointing at Ape and laughing your ass off for ages. That's what I mean. Was fine at first... but you keep making a point of shoving in mocking and ridiculing at every post you make in response to him to discredit him and give credability to what you say... and one must wonder why that is. You sound smug. Considering we've yet to find scum, not sure why you got this air of amusement to your posts. That's my impression. 

And what exactly does you not posting after crusher's flip have to do with what I said? In light of the two flips things change. 80 going against you, you following Crusher around and fueling his push against verbal (If I remember right. I specifically recall you voting someone along with your muffin top). 

What's wrong? Ape push isn't going as smoothly as expected?