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Junc - Azog Duke UNC Discussion

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Duke is better:

  • Best All Time Coach
  • Defending National Champions
  • Best Recruiting Class coming next year
  • Duke is the better academic school
  • Duke has cooler unis and mascot

 

 

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they do not have the best all time coach.  one of the best but not the best.  Dean was better, Roy is just as good.  K is afraid to play non conf road games, always schedules weak non conf scheds, spends half the games working officials rather than coaching his teams, never develops a bench, has insanely high # of transfers, makes every excuse in the book after they lose, never shows grace in defeat.  whines about officials when 90% of the time awful calls go his way, teaches the worst brand of basketball to watch where players are taught to flop, head bob, kick out legs on 3s in order to "sell the foul".

defending champs- yep, everything broke perfect for them.

next year is next year and the top recruit is brittle having missed 2 of the last 3 years w/ major injuries.

better academic school? sure

cooler unis and mascot? not a chance, nothing is better than Carolina blue.  the duke uni's are horrendous especially the hideous black ones.

 

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Coach K = 4 Natl Championships vs. Dean Smith and 2 

 

Coach K is better. His relationship with Kobe, LeBron, DWADE, and others helped him become the first coach in history to win the NCAA title, Olympic gold and world championship. His best ever talent = Grant Hill. Dean's = Michael Jordan. Yet K has more rings.

 

 

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Coach K = 4 Natl Championships vs. Dean Smith and 2 

 

Coach K is better. His relationship with Kobe, LeBron, DWADE, and others helped him become the first coach in history to win the NCAA title, Olympic gold and world championship. His best ever talent = Grant Hill. Dean's = Michael Jordan. Yet K has more rings.

 

 

I hate to correct you but he now has 5, the last 3 have been jokes though and the 2nd one, while earned, shouldn't have happened b/c Laettner should have been ejected in the elite 8 vs. UK.

haha, his relationship w/ those guys.  Colangelo gets all the credit for putting those teams together and the re-emphasis on USA basketball.  the coach was a babysitter.

 

K had Grant for 4 years, Dean had Michael for 3.  Imagine how many titles he would have had if he was selfish like K?

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I hate to correct you but he now has 5, the last 3 have been jokes though and the 2nd one, while earned, shouldn't have happened b/c Laettner should have been ejected in the elite 8 vs. UK.

haha, his relationship w/ those guys.  Colangelo gets all the credit for putting those teams together and the re-emphasis on USA basketball.  the coach was a babysitter.

 

K had Grant for 4 years, Dean had Michael for 3.  Imagine how many titles he would have had if he was selfish like K?

My bad FIVE!!!! :)

I believe he also has been to the most final fours and give him credit he has adjusted his style and has been successful in the one and done era. He did bust out with teams led by Rivers and Paker but those prospects were overrated as we can now see in the NBA. LeBron and Kobe have solid relationships with K and Kobe would have played for him if he could not go to the NBA right away. He did develop players as well. Look at how much better plays such as Battier, Boozer, Kelly, Plumlees, L. Thomas. Singler, Cook, N. Smith, to name a few got after being in the Duke program. Players that stay get better and there is not much he can with the one and dones in 1 yr. 

 

K is better! K is BEST! K is still coaching!

 

 

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My bad FIVE!!!! :)

I believe he also has been to the most final fours and give him credit he has adjusted his style and has been successful in the one and done era. He did bust out with teams led by Rivers and Paker but those prospects were overrated as we can now see in the NBA. LeBron and Kobe have solid relationships with K and Kobe would have played for him if he could not go to the NBA right away. He did develop players as well. Look at how much better plays such as Battier, Boozer, Kelly, Plumlees, L. Thomas. Singler, Cook, N. Smith, to name a few got after being in the Duke program. Players that stay get better and there is not much he can with the one and dones in 1 yr. 

 

K is better! K is BEST! K is still coaching!

 

 

he had success one season in the 1 and done era, he's trying again next year.  let's see how that goes.

you keep talking about the NBA, it's not about the NBA/  it's how they play in college. 

Kobe said if he went to college it would have been at UNC under Dean:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/15/sports/la-sp-kobe-bryant-20130816#axzz2c6dlpTKR

 

Battier was great from the start, he just wasn't relied upon as much as a freshman, same for Boozer, lance thomas was a bad college player and is a good NBA player, Kelly was garbage, Singler was goodf rom the start.  Cook and Smith are really the only 2 guys off the top of my head, maybe Nate James too.  other than that nothing.  No Danny Green's, Brice Johnson's, David Noel's, Kendall Marshall's, etc...

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he had success one season in the 1 and done era, he's trying again next year.  let's see how that goes.

you keep talking about the NBA, it's not about the NBA/  it's how they play in college. 

Kobe said if he went to college it would have been at UNC under Dean:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/15/sports/la-sp-kobe-bryant-20130816#axzz2c6dlpTKR

 

Battier was great from the start, he just wasn't relied upon as much as a freshman, same for Boozer, lance thomas was a bad college player and is a good NBA player, Kelly was garbage, Singler was goodf rom the start.  Cook and Smith are really the only 2 guys off the top of my head, maybe Nate James too.  other than that nothing.  No Danny Green's, Brice Johnson's, David Noel's, Kendall Marshall's, etc...

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=1153901

 

Bryant needs to stick to his stories! :)

Battier was good on D but developed his O. Lance Thomas was a critical role player and great on D on a Natl Championship team! Kelly got better and into the NBA. Look at his stats he definitely improved. Singler was good but improved. There are others:

 

Antonio Lang, Gerald Henderson, Trajan Langdon, Brian Zoubek, Dahntay Jones (I know he initially transferred), Amile Jefferson (averaged double double b4 injury), JJ Redick (rebuilt his body after Frosh yr.), 

 

That is not a terrible list. The last UNC player that brought me any fear was Harrison Barnes who actually did nothing at UNC but for some reason I always feared him.

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Thomas was a fouler and never should been eligible due to taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry his senior season.

Gerald Henderson was the same when he got there as when he left, a major disappointment(and brining his name up reminds me of the class of K calling Gerald the real victim after his flagrant foul of Hansbrough).

Zoubek was terrible, he had a successful run in 2010 when he was allowed to foul every possession.

Jones as you noted was a transfer, he developed nothing.

Jeffreson has done absolutely nothing.

redick same overrated choker as a freshman as he was as a senior

 

Barnes did plenty at Carolina, unfortunately only there 2 years and too many real injuries around him in 2012.  he a million late game shots. 

it's funny that you bring up Barnes.  2009 the heels win their 2nd title in 5 seasons, they were crushing duke every year and then Barnes was supposedly a lock to go to duke.  last minute he decides UNC and the pounding continues BUT after that duke went on a title run and they have won 2 in 6 seasons and dominated Carolina then when everyone thought Ingram was a lock to UNC he switched to duke and now Carolina is readying for a title run. 

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That 09-10 team won me $500 in the NCAA pool as I had WVA beating UK and Wall and then Duke winning it all. The strategy was for Zoubek, Thomas and the Plumlees to get offensive boards and then throw the balls back to Smith, Scheyer and Singler for threes and the team admittedly was red hot in the tourney from 3 pt. range. Zoub was 100x better than when he got there and same with LT. Smith was definitely better too. That championship was not anticipated by many despite the team winning 35 games. The 12-13 team made it to the Elite 8 b4 losing to the eventual champ. Louisville and that team was not exactly loaded with talent. 

You don't really believe that K stumbled on his 1k wins do you? Come on. He is the MAN! And as far as I know his program is mostly clean. Can't opine on LT's jewelry or if he knew about that. 

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That 09-10 team won me $500 in the NCAA pool as I had WVA beating UK and Wall and then Duke winning it all. The strategy was for Zoubek, Thomas and the Plumlees to get offensive boards and then throw the balls back to Smith, Scheyer and Singler for threes and the team admittedly was red hot in the tourney from 3 pt. range. Zoub was 100x better than when he got there and same with LT. Smith was definitely better too. That championship was not anticipated by many despite the team winning 35 games. The 12-13 team made it to the Elite 8 b4 losing to the eventual champ. Louisville and that team was not exactly loaded with talent. 

You don't really believe that K stumbled on his 1k wins do you? Come on. He is the MAN! And as far as I know his program is mostly clean. Can't opine on LT's jewelry or if he knew about that. 

those guys did nothing but foul and got away with it.

they had been disappointing in the tourney for most of the previous 15 years so yeah it was a little unexpected especially w/ KU and UK being so good but those teams got upset and it cleared the way.

K is a great coach, I just don't like how he coaches and what he has done to the game of basketball.  as far as the wins, they play more games and he has handcrafted weak scheds to pad the record for many years and I really believe this has contributed to so many postseason failures.

I am not blaming K for the jewelry but Thomas should have been suspended.  PJ Hairston gets a rental car and can't play, Thomas gets hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry and can play.

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those guys did nothing but foul and got away with it.

they had been disappointing in the tourney for most of the previous 15 years so yeah it was a little unexpected especially w/ KU and UK being so good but those teams got upset and it cleared the way.

K is a great coach, I just don't like how he coaches and what he has done to the game of basketball.  as far as the wins, they play more games and he has handcrafted weak scheds to pad the record for many years and I really believe this has contributed to so many postseason failures.

I am not blaming K for the jewelry but Thomas should have been suspended.  PJ Hairston gets a rental car and can't play, Thomas gets hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry and can play.

Their schedule lately has been difficult IDK. ACC overall has been down lately. G Tech, Wake, V Tech have all sucked and then they adopted BC and Miami? Yuck! 

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Their schedule lately has been difficult IDK. ACC overall has been down lately. G Tech, Wake, V Tech have all sucked and then they adopted BC and Miami? Yuck! 

nothing you can do about ACC sched(especially now w/ unbalanced sched) but I was talking non conf scheds.  he never schedules true road games and manipulates the SOS/RPI #s by not playing the worst of the worst teams but still playing awful teams.

 

the ACC has been good the last few years.  not like the old days, expansion ruined it but it's still been good.

BC is a joke, they literally bring nothing to the ACC. 

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Chris Carrawell is the classic example of a player who improved dramatically under K.   There are numerous other examples, but that is perhaps the most obvious, indisputable, one.  

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Chris Carrawell is the classic example of a player who improved dramatically under K.   There are numerous other examples, but that is perhaps the most obvious, indisputable, one.  

that is a good one, one of the rare examples.

CC definitely improved. Duke has played Kansas, Wisc, UK? They also play in tourneys. I don't think their schedule is all that weak? 

not in the same season.  they play that tourney w/ UK, KU and MSU where they play one of them each year on neutral court.  UK was down this year and crushed duke.  Carolina had a home and home w/ UK but of course UK postponed this season.

 

wisconsin was required by ACC/Big 10 challenge and I think that game was crucial to their run.  playing on the road in Madison against a top team.  they grew up that night.  they rarely schedule road games and when they do it is usually against a team like St. John's that is rarely good and can't draw flies to the Garden.

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We are discussing men's hoops not women's

Sucks that you have to try to rely on that, but even so, wake me when either team catches UConn Mens or Women hoops this millennium. 

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Sucks that you have to try to rely on that, but even so, wake me when either team catches UConn Mens or Women hoops this millennium. 

this millennium duke has 3 and UConn has 3, Carolina will have 3 this April.

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this millennium duke has 3 and UConn has 3, Carolina will have 3 this April.

In mens hoops, UConn has 3, Duke has 3, UNC has 2. 

My mistake. I was counting UConn's championship over Duke in '99, which would give us 4 in the last 2 decades...all while coming out of nowhere to become an NCAA Basketball powerhouse in both mens and womens hoops. Still waiting for someone to match UConn's success in either gender over the past two decades. 

Edited by greenwichjetfan
Mistakenly attributed UConn's '99 championship over Duke to this millennium

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In mens hoops, UConn has 3, Duke has 3, UNC has 2. 

My mistake. I was counting UConn's championship over Duke in '99, which would give us 4 in the last 2 decades...all while coming out of nowhere to become an NCAA Basketball powerhouse in both mens and womens hoops. Still waiting for someone to match UConn's success in either gender over the past two decades. 

I love UConn for what they have done to duke.  they have a GREAT basketball program but I don't think they belong in the discussion b/c they have too many down years, where the top guys are consistently FF contenders.  UConn once in the FF usually wins but they haven't made many FFs.

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Too bad in terms of academics UCONN does not compare to either Duke or UNC. As far as hoops let's see over the next three years which program is more successful. With all due respect I don't care about women's hoops. 

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Too bad in terms of academics UCONN does not compare to either Duke or UNC. As far as hoops let's see over the next three years which program is more successful. With all due respect I don't care about women's hoops. 

Geno is a great coach though, I would have loved to see him or Past Summitt coach a men's team.  they obviously wouldn't win all those championships but I think they would have been successful.

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Geno is a great coach though, I would have loved to see him or Past Summitt coach a men's team.  they obviously wouldn't win all those championships but I think they would have been successful.

Maybe or maybe w/o the vastly superior talent they would just be avg.

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Maybe or maybe w/o the vastly superior talent they would just be avg.

they coach up that talent too.

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Perhaps. IDK the men's game is above the rim and vastly different. 

going back to Dean Smith, when he started coaching the game was below the rim and he adapted to the change.  I am sure Geno/Summit would have adapated

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going back to Dean Smith, when he started coaching the game was below the rim and he adapted to the change.  I am sure Geno/Summit would have adapated

Yes, Dean was a dinosaur. Maybe they would have who really knows? 

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Too bad in terms of academics UCONN does not compare to either Duke or UNC. As far as hoops let's see over the next three years which program is more successful. With all due respect I don't care about women's hoops. 

I don't really care about student athlete "academics." Feel free to think that it matters or that it's on the up and up in any of the big NCAA sports programs across America.

If you meant academics as a school and not just for student athletes, then again, kudos. For me, UConn was fine. I went there along with my closest friends, and suffice to say that between the 8 of us, 5 are doctors, 1 is at a hedge fund, 1 is at a private equity firm, and 1 is an actuary for the top accounting firm of the big 4. So that's great for you that Duke has a higher rep academically- it just doesn't really mean anything to this discussion.

Then again, you already know that academics has nothing to do with why this thread was even started, don't you? This thread is about hoops - and then you turned into just mens hoops when you realized Duke couldn't compete with hoops in general.

It's cool though. I get it. Why should you care about women's hoops? Duke sucks. It would be like me attempting to care about UConn's curling team. Easy to not care when there's nothing to root for.   

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I love UConn for what they have done to duke.  they have a GREAT basketball program but I don't think they belong in the discussion b/c they have too many down years, where the top guys are consistently FF contenders.  UConn once in the FF usually wins but they haven't made many FFs.

The 4 up seasons over the past two decades make up for the down ones. No one else in America has matched that number in the most recent 20 years. 

And UConn is doing it far away from the vast majority of the talent, and built the program from the ground up on a campus built on a farm. This isn't some old school powerhouse in a booming city for young professionals that just needed to be revitalized. 

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The 4 up seasons over the past two decades make up for the down ones. No one else in America has matched that number in the most recent 20 years. 

And UConn is doing it far away from the vast majority of the talent, and built the program from the ground up on a campus built on a farm. This isn't some old school powerhouse in a booming city for young professionals that just needed to be revitalized. 

Calhoun did an amazing job but let's not act like there wasn't talent in the area. 

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Calhoun did an amazing job but let's not act like there wasn't talent in the area. 

I said *vast majority* of the talent.

I know NYC is big on basketball talent - but structured basketball talent that can actually take the next step and make it to D1 ball at a big school is found in the south. Even considering NYC though, UConn is at minimum 3 hours north of NYC; and is once again in the middle of nowhere. It's 16 miles from the highway, and it's not even the major highway in CT. Getting guys to come live on a farm and away from a robust young professional city lifestyle (like UNC and Duke can offer) is hard enough - let alone having to hop a flight to scout mostly anyone worth scouting. 

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UConn has a great program.  Apart from Duke's loss to Cal in 1993, my most disappointing losses as a Duke fan were the losses to UConn in 1999 and 2004.   Calhoun badly outcoached K in both games.

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UConn has a great program.  Apart from Duke's loss to Cal in 1993, my most disappointing losses as a Duke fan were the losses to UConn in 1999 and 2004.   Calhoun badly outcoached K in both games.

all great days- when Jason Kidd and Cal took down Hurley in his sr season then the "take 'em Trajan game" in '99 and then the choke to end 2004.  great, great days:D

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all great days- when Jason Kidd and Cal took down Hurley in his sr season then the "take 'em Trajan game" in '99 and then the choke to end 2004.  great, great days:D

Didn't like any of those games very much.  I enjoyed this one though:  :P

 

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