Fitzpatrick was a C+ QB and his holdout made him a D-

[Jetsplayer21]

15 hours ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

You look at the great QBs they spend time in the off season at mini camps and even spending time on their own working with their WRs.  A lot of people somehow thought Ryan Fitzpatrcik was a top QB and even bought those Fitzmagic shirts.  Problem is not only was he a C+ QB he did NOTHING with this team the entire offseason.  The night before training camp they gave him a $12 million deal but he never worked with any of these players from basically late December until late July. 

In 2015 he had two great WRs bail him out but it took some significant time to gel with those guys during the season.  I feel like we are basically seeing the same situation again this year but our schedule is much more difficult for him to ever gel with these guys again. 

We should have just put out Geno, Petty, or even Hackenberg.  We are paying $12 million for a mediocre at best QB who is now garbage.

I hope Vito from Sheepshead Bay with his awkwardly shaped body wearing his hemmed jeans or jorts with tube socks sold all of his Fitzmagic shirts on Ebay or out of the trunk of his car.  Fitzpatrick will be out of the NFL next season.  Everyone else knows he's an over the hill journeyman QB.  He got his big contract but did NOTHING all offseason with these guys to build any chemistry. 

And when he is benched the next bad game, his holdout will cost him so much more when free agency comes back around.. He will again only be offered backup $$.. be lucky to get a #2 qb deal.. He should have taken the jets original offer.. Looks like Mac got this one right..

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

so 5 weeks out of a 16 week season of poor play allows for a B+?!

Agree to disagree. I remember several weeks of suckage and YEAH, 3 INTs in the 4th quarter of a must-win game do count for more than other less critical games. IMO

When you play from behind you throw into traffic and any Qb gets picked off. It's not all one player's fault when a team is behind by a score or two. He's not a B+ this year that's for sure. But he brought us from a 4-12 to a 10-6. Now if he takes us from a 10-6 back to a 4-12 then he gets an F and arrividerci. After four games I am not ready to give up on him or our entire offense yet. This season in the NFL you've got the yo yo effect. Teams are playing great one week and terrible the next. We'll see if the Jets can get it together. Nobody on this board including me thinks we will win next week. 

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

When you play from behind you throw into traffic and any Qb gets picked off

Then ******* score first!! Score enough to have a lead!! Isn't that part of B+ QBs??

the notion that taking a 4-12 team FROM THE YEAR BEFORE as part of the grading criterion for the next season seems a little bogus to me. The talent level on the offense skill positions was markedly improved.

In the end, I don't agree with your position because he choked the buffalo game away, even with the markedly improved targets he had to throw to. in my grading system, performance under pressure and when its most needed has to count for more than stat padding and wins in non-pressure situations.

[Rangers9]

Just now, phill1c said:

Then ******* score first!! Score enough to have a lead!! Isn't that part of B+ QBs??

the notion that taking a 4-12 team FROM THE YEAR BEFORE as part of the grading criterion for the next season seems a little bogus to me. The talent level on the offense skill positions was markedly improved.

In the end, I don't agree with your position because he choked the buffalo game away, even with the markedly improved targets he had to throw to. in my grading system, performance under pressure and when its most needed has to count for more than stat padding and wins in non-pressure situations.

There is something called defense. The Bills have a good defense and the Seahawks have a very good defense. It's not all on the Qb but if your Qb plays great he can make a big difference. On week 17 Fitz was mediocre to fair and yesterday ok to fair. I mean look at the way Seattle stoned our run game. That was the game plan to give it to Forte and it didn't work. Previous games he had some success. And when you throw into a secondary like Seattle has playing from behind (thanks a good deal to bad defense) it's hard to be successful. As for 2015 I thought that Fitz was mostly very good. He isn't so far this year except for one game. Terrible in one game too. Fair to ok in two. 

[phill1c]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

On week 17 Fitz was mediocre to fair and yesterday ok to fair

We don't agree on this. to me, 3 INTs is POOR, especially if they occur in a single quarter. The Bills were a 9-7 team, and their defense really wasn't that good except against the Jets QB, now 2-8 against them.

But, I think you've mistaken me for wanting to debate Mr. 1 TD and NINE INTs in his last TWO games.

You gave him a B+, which is quite humorous for a non-playoff QB, who choked the last game and playoffs away.

But I respect you, if not your opinion.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, BroadwayJets said:

You watch the QBs head. Fitz' will turn maybe twice. And if the RB is his second option every time he dumps it off to them, it's a fcking limitation because he has 3 other options on the field he's not looking at.

They are when you're 6'1 and throw it side arm.

And when they don't fall for the one way you get it into the end zone, we lose. Not fitz' fault his crutch to his limitations aren't working anymore, right? Of course it's not his fault he throws 10 picks in 4 games. Yes, when the one thing that has gotten Fitz to where he is (backshoulders to the outside WR) isn't working anymore, you fcking abandon the fitz ship, because that's all he fcking has. What fcking games are you watching? How many times did we see the backshoulder work, just because it's Decker and Marshall going against sh*t CBs last season? He tries it against good CBs this season, and it backfires, horrendously. Shocking.

 

 

Yeah, him getting riled up in press conferences will make up for all the times they have to go back onto the field on short notice due to a 3 and out - and turnovers. Give me a break. I'm not giving anyone credit here. The secondary has been god awful with tackling and coverage. They gave up 10 points last week, and they couldn't beat the Seahawks yesterday. Pryor is not good in coverage. Gilchrist is average. Surprisingly, Gilchrist seems to be more reliable when it comes to open field tackles. Marcus Williams is soft, and Revis is the only good tackler. Wilson was lights out, and outside of that long TD, it was not the worst game they've played this season. Darron Lee was actually in good spots while covering most of the game, but sometimes even perfect coverage can't do anything against a perfect pass and Jimmy Graham.

Bowles hasn't been impressive, and the challenge followed by the timeout was by far his biggest blunder yesterday.  Our secondary is just not good. Revis had a good game yesterday, and aside from that, nobody is good.

 

Also, to address the bold - We came out flat plenty last season, too. If you look at our scoring and defense from the first half of games last year and compare it to the second halves, you'll see you'd be wrong to say that. We blew out teams in the second half of games last season. I'll agree we haven't seen enough of that this season, but at the same time, what, 9(?) of Fitz' 10 picks have been in the second half. Name a fcking coach that could remedy 9 second half picks through 4 games.

As Brandon Marshall said they have had help up top so CB's can now jump the back shoulder throw and its happened about 5 times in the last 2 games SOOOO its time to make a change. That's not so much on Fitz as it is the OC. No way anyone on this planet would have predicted Fitz would throw 9 ints after the Buffalo game there's just no way so its time for this team to change things up and not keep going to the same well because obviously that's how you get burned. Don't give me the crap Fitz can't throw because in the Buffalo game he obviously proved he can throw and throw well. These last two games are a fluke and its on everyone, Fitz, WR's and Gailey .IMHO what the Jets should do is go to a faster tempo offense and try to keep teams off balance and avoid substitutions for the defense maybe even mix in a little no huddle

Also on watching the QB's head...that's all well and good but if you have a 1 on 1 situation the QB has the luxury to stare down a receiver since the corner is staring at the WR as well. In the case of throwing to the middle of the field and looking off safeties that's an entirely different scenario. This sh*t that people make up that seems to go viral is stupid. In your pre snap reads you scan the field and if you are in a one on one situation on either side with Decker or Brandon you keep your eye on that play until it breaks down. If the call in that situation is for a back shoulder throw you throw the back shoulder throw every single time its a timing play you can't have it back if the CB has help or reads the play it can backfire its that simple.

Its really easy for everyone including the Fitz haters to put the entire blame on Fitz ..why wouldn't they ? Ths is on the entire offense and changes better be coming is all I have to say.

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

There is something called defense. The Bills have a good defense and the Seahawks have a very good defense. It's not all on the Qb but if your Qb plays great he can make a big difference. On week 17 Fitz was mediocre to fair and yesterday ok to fair. I mean look at the way Seattle stoned our run game. That was the game plan to give it to Forte and it didn't work. Previous games he had some success. And when you throw into a secondary like Seattle has playing from behind (thanks a good deal to bad defense) it's hard to be successful. As for 2015 I thought that Fitz was mostly very good. He isn't so far this year except for one game. Terrible in one game too. Fair to ok in two. 

Ranger we know you are going down in the boat with #14 too.. just be prepared.. 

[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, phill1c said:

We don't agree on this. to me, 3 INTs is POOR, especially if they occur in a single quarter. The Bills were a 9-7 team, and their defense really wasn't that good except against the Jets QB, now 2-8 against them.

But, I think you've mistaken me for wanting to debate Mr. 1 TD and NINE INTs in his last TWO games.

You gave him a B+, which is quite humorous for a non-playoff QB, who choked the last game and playoffs away.

But I respect you, if not your opinion.

No argument just a discussion.. I get the 9 picks but not all picks are as bad as others esp when you're playing from behind. Yesterday only one pick was significant and that pick to me was the key play of the game and a terrible play by Fitz. Again on week 17 I feel that we were in the game. If a few other players had made plays we might have won.Yesterday we saw the Seattle playmakers make great catches and the Jets receivers not make great catches. That's sometimes the difference in who wins or loses. Our tight end dropped a key pass but Jimmy Graham made great catches. So if on week 17 Kembrall Thompkins makes an unbelievable catch we win that game. 

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Ranger we know you are going down in the boat with #14 too.. just be prepared.. 

Hey man according to Marshall he's he's going down with 14 sink or swim. I'm not if he continues to suck and he has so far this year. 

[phill1c]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

No argument just a discussion.. I get the 9 picks but not all picks are as bad as others esp when you playing from behind. Yesterday only one pick was significant and that pick to me was the key play of the game and a terrible play by Fitz. Again on week 17 I feel that we were in the game. If a few other players had made plays we might have won.Yesterday we saw the Seattle playmakers make great catches and the Jets receivers not make great catches. That's sometimes the difference in who wins or loses. Our tight end dropped a key pass but Jimmy Graham made great catches. So if on week 17 Kembrall Thompkins makes an unbelievable catch we win that game. 

Some valid points. But I think the overall excuse about "playing from behind" puts none of the responsibility for playing from behind on Fitzpatrick. We had a great opportunity to score SEVEN points on that early drive. But, as is often the case, Fitzpatrick fails to lead the Jets to a TD. It happened against Cincy, which changed the entire complexion of the game.

It's not just the INTs; INTs happen and avoiding them shouldn't be the end-all of a QB's mindset. That said, for whatever reason, they are happening in bunches with Fitzpatrick. That said, the notion that if "Kenbrell Thompkins makes an incredible catch we win the game" ignores the likelihood that without two of the three turnovers in the red zone, and we just score FGs, we also likely win the game.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has never led ANY team to the playoffs, in over 10 years as a starter. So, I'm sure there are many people, like you, with a passel full of excuses for his failures.

[BroadwayJets]

4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

As Brandon Marshall said they have had help up top so CB's can now jump the back shoulder throw and its happened about 5 times in the last 2 games SOOOO its time to make a change. That's not so much on Fitz as it is the OC. No way anyone on this planet would have predicted Fitz would throw 9 ints after the Buffalo game there's just no way so its time for this team to change things up and not keep going to the same well because obviously that's how you get burned. Don't give me the crap Fitz can't throw because in the Buffalo game he obviously proved he can throw and throw well. These last two games are a fluke and its on everyone, Fitz, WR's and Gailey .IMHO what the Jets should do is go to a faster tempo offense and try to keep teams off balance and avoid substitutions for the defense maybe even mix in a little no huddle

Also on watching the QB's head...that's all well and good but if you have a 1 on 1 situation the QB has the luxury to stare down a receiver since the corner is staring at the WR as well. In the case of throwing to the middle of the field and looking off safeties that's an entirely different scenario. This sh*t that people make up that seems to go viral is stupid. In your pre snap reads you scan the field and if you are in a one on one situation on either side with Decker or Brandon you keep your eye on that play until it breaks down. If the call in that situation is for a back shoulder throw you throw the back shoulder throw every single time its a timing play you can't have it back if the CB has help or reads the play it can backfire its that simple.

Its really easy for everyone including the Fitz haters to put the entire blame on Fitz ..why wouldn't they ? Ths is on the entire offense and changes better be coming is all I have to say.

What's that? Teams are adjusting to the one thing that gets Fitz out of trouble? Hm. Fitz maybe hasn't seen that teams are bringing help to BMarsh's side? Fitz hasn't adjusted mid-game or, GOD FORBID, mid-play to, ya know, maybe not throw a ball when he sees someone is not open? That seems odd. Oh right, but he had a great passing game against that disciplined Rex/Rob Ryan defense one time. One would look through his entire career and call it an anomaly.

I understand you work to your players talents, and he throws backshoulders because he can't hit them downfield. Luckily, our WRs are good enough to make it successful. Even with how good our WRs are, he's still under 60% as a Jet, and his career. He is not the guy you make him up to be. Don't try to prove to me that I'm just a Fitz hater, and that's the sole reason I hate him. I hate him because he is incredibly inaccurate downfield, makes damn near ALL of his decisions prior to the snap, has a terrible throwing motion, pretty average footwork, and last, but certainly not least: CAN'T go through his reads. I assume his whole career is a fluke except for last season, right?

Yes, and when you watch other QBs heads, amazingly, you'll see them pan to other sections of the field when they see someones not open. Not Fitzpatrick. Nope. He went to Harvard though, so, god forbid he catches some flak about how sh*tty his mental game is. It's really easy to blame Fitz because it is so fcking obvious he is the root of the problem. I can't believe I'm sitting here having to defend myself for hating Fitzpatrick. Fcking bizarre.

[Obrien2Toon]

I don't think the hold out had anything to do with it. 

He went from a ridiculously easy schedule to a hard schedule

[Pac]

8 hours ago, Mike135 said:

If only we could have forseen this during the offseaon.

The way these first few weeks have played out is downright shocking.

[Pac]

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

not having a play book or the philosophy Gailey and Fitz discuss week to week, how do you know what option is first, second or third ? How do you know how much is decided by pre snap reads and one on one coverage ? RB's can be the first option on many plays not just as a check down.

Batted passes at the line are not the QB's fault contrary to what you believe when a Defensive lineman commits to batting down a pass he's not engaged with a O-lineman there is NO WAY for a QB to be looking down field and recognize this. If your mad at Fitz play and the play calls in general there is no need to make sh*t up to prove the point.

This offense in general has played bad. Fitz has plainly stated as has anyone who follows this team with big receivers you take your chances in one on one situations problem right now is players are not falling for the back shoulder pass and they are out fighting our WR's for the football... so what that should tell you ? is it's time to make an adjustment ? maybe up the tempo of the offense maybe attack the middle of the field more maybe use the RB's more, no matter how you slice it its not always Fitz fault hes just the easy way out to complain and bitch.

As of right now he happens to be the one making the bad throws, there is no denying that but at some point when you've been figured out you have to make a change and we have not made that change and if we don't soon the Steeler game is shaping up to be a complete debacle.

Right now I see a poorly coached football team in every single phase of the game and until that changes we will not win games. While this team seems aggressive on paper due to blitz percentages this is NOT an aggressive football team. Our Defense does not create turnovers and they give up huge big plays that break our backs and they have in all 3 losses. If were not giving away big plays we are giving away fumbles and throwing Ints. If you can tell me ONE adjustment this team has made to remedy any of our current play I'll listen but the fact is this is the same football team week in and week out and it has carried over from last year. This team comes out flat plays like its just not ready to deal with what offense are showing them or defenses for that matter and they play totally uninspired football. Looking at the Hawks in what is an elite defense we were supposed to be are we anywhere close to that ? Hell we still can't even tackle guys in the secondary.

Our head Coach SUCKS has no fire and has not changed anything and its becoming a virus throughout this entire team. At times this team looks like its giving up and its only the 4th week into the season. They have taken on the persona of our head coach like I said in another thread its like Perry Como is out there coaching and everyone is falling asleep.

ah..  so Fitz doesn't suck but our HC does.  

You lost this one Smash...  no amount of typed words can change that.

Fitz sucks, we should have started Geno, and we should have signed Hoyer.  

Fitz at 12 Mil has been a disaster.

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

The way these first few weeks have played out is downright shocking.

No doubt.  And in other shocking news, scientific studies show married men have much higher stress levels.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

ah..  so Fitz doesn't suck but our HC does.  

You lost this one Smash...  no amount of typed words can change that.

Fitz sucks, we should have started Geno, and we should have signed Hoyer.  

Fitz at 12 Mil has been a disaster.

PAC its obvious right now Fitz is playing bad but I'm blaming everyone in this situation not just Fitz. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy but its obvious our offense as a whole is not getting it done so at some point you adjust, we have not adjusted. Now adjusting can come in many ways including bringing in another QB but I would be willing to bet any amount of money if the same plays were called as in the KC game and the Seattle game any QB would be hung out to dry because teams were going all in on our passing game and they had no fear of our slow deliberate rushing attack.

Forte as good as he is, is not fast and he's not a threat anymore, that much is obvious. He excels in the short passing game in the middle of the field and also in the screen game he did that at Chicago but how many times has he done it here in the last 2 games ? Hes caught 2 passes in each of the last 3 games even though teams choose to blanket our WR's !! How many times have we seen empty backfields ? Sorry but the way we are handling our current personnel is criminal. Fitz ultimately shoulders the blame but our offense is once again becoming predictable. What happened to the duel backfield of Powell and Forte ? Both guys are fantastic in picking up the blitz and should work well towards giving our offense some unpredictability but where the fcuk are they ?

Fitz is fully capable of being a good game manager but we are asking him to be a god damn gun slinger and Im sorry but that's just stupid I didn't support bringing Fitz back for him to be used like this and I'm pretty damn sure no one else expected him to be used like this either. Why did we bring in a Back like Forte ? It certainly was not for his running ability it was for his ability to catch the football and be a good check down option. So we are once again back in the same god damn boat we were last year No TE and No Check down option since most of what we do is out of an empty backfield .So when Forte comes in on first freaking down we hand him the ball ....this if fcuking hilariously predictable and stupid.

This coaching staff is making very poor decisions with the personnel they have available and they are leaning way too much on a QB who should in now way shape or form be a gun slinger. Its time to smarten up or this season will be lost if its not already.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

I don't think the hold out had anything to do with it. 

He went from a ridiculously easy schedule to a hard schedule

Sure, when you are average at best to begin with and play the hardest position practice is not needed ?

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

PAC its obvious right now Fitz is playing bad but I'm blaming everyone in this situation not just Fitz. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy but its obvious our offense as a whole is not getting it done so at some point you adjust, we have not adjusted. Now adjusting can come in many ways including bringing in another QB but I would be willing to bet any amount of money if the same plays were called as in the KC game and the Seattle game any QB would be hung out to dry because teams were going all in on our passing game and they had no fear of our slow deliberate rushing attack.

Forte as good as he is, is not fast and he's not a threat anymore, that much is obvious. He excels in the short passing game in the middle of the field and also in the screen game he did that at Chicago but how many times has he done it here in the last 2 games ? Hes caught 2 passes in each of the last 3 games even though teams choose to blanket our WR's !! How many times have we seen empty backfields ? Sorry but the way we are handling our current personnel is criminal. Fitz ultimately shoulders the blame but our offense is once again becoming predictable. What happened to the duel backfield of Powell and Forte ? Both guys are fantastic in picking up the blitz and should work well towards giving our offense some unpredictability but where the fcuk are they ?

Fitz is fully capable of being a good game manager but we are asking him to be a god damn gun slinger and Im sorry but that's just stupid I didn't support bringing Fitz back for him to be used like this and I'm pretty damn sure no one else expected him to be used like this either. Why did we bring in a Back like Forte ? It certainly was not for his running ability it was for his ability to catch the football and be a good check down option. So we are once again back in the same god damn boat we were last year No TE and No Check down option since most of what we do is out of an empty backfield .So when Forte comes in on first freaking down we hand him the ball ....this if fcuking hilariously predictable and stupid.

This coaching staff is making very poor decisions with the personnel they have available and they are leaning way too much on a QB who should in now way shape or form be a gun slinger. Its time to smarten up or this season will be lost if its not already.

How many times do you have to see Jets WR's slow down, jump, dive, and twist to try and make great catches on bad throws?   We shouldn't need to have contortionists for WR's.

The guy sucks.

I think Geno could have won both the Bengal and KC game.

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Hey man according to Marshall he's he's going down with 14 sink or swim. I'm not if he continues to suck and he has so far this year. 

Ok sit tight.. the ship is going down but help is on the way.. 

[Smashmouth]

24 minutes ago, Pac said:

How many times do you have to see Jets WR's slow down, jump, dive, and twist to try and make great catches on bad throws?   We shouldn't need to have contortionists for WR's.

The guy sucks.

I think Geno could have won both the Bengal and KC game.

Funny I see that in just about every football game I watch. Its common on back shoulder throws. Also FWIW I'm not only talking about Fitz here I'm talking about the entire dumpster fire we currently have going on. Funny a game that's all about the QB yet teams with horrific QB's seem to win regularly while the Jets seem to give away game after game in just about every facet of the game whether the QB plays good bad or horrible

[Pac]

22 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Funny I see that in just about every football game I watch. Its common on back shoulder throws. Also FWIW I'm not only talking about Fitz here I'm talking about the entire dumpster fire we currently have going on. Funny a game that's all about the QB yet teams with horrific QB's seem to win regularly while the Jets seem to give away game after game in just about every facet of the game whether the QB plays good bad or horrible

You ever think maybe the D is sick and tired of having to be worried about getting more than a TD down because they know Fitzy is incapable of bringing them back?

But I agree - the D is a mess.  There is no excuse for them getting beaten like a drum by teams who struggle to score against other teams.  Kacy Rogers seems nice and all but the guy is more vanilla than Perrys.  I'm not sure if he's capable of expressing emotion.  He makes Mangini look like Jerry Glanville.

This defense and QB suck.  I'm all for demoting or firing Rogers but how about something a little less drastic first.  Put in the Geno and see if they can salvage the season.

[Larz]

this place is so fun after a loss, lol

the buffalo game proved the off season rust was gone. 

fitz is what he is.  he is wreckless and takes foolish chances.  gailey said he couldn't get fitz to slide feet first when they were in BUFFALO.  

he is what he is

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

You ever think maybe the D is sick and tired of having to be worried about getting more than a TD down because they know Fitzy is incapable of bringing them back?

But I agree - the D is a mess.  There is no excuse for them getting beaten like a drum by teams who struggle to score against other teams.  Kacy Rogers seems nice and all but the guy is more vanilla than Perrys.  I'm not sure if he's capable of expressing emotion.  He makes Mangini look like Jerry Glanville.

This defense and QB suck.  I'm all for demoting or firing Rogers but how about something a little less drastic first.  Put in the Geno and see if they can salvage the season.

Im fine with a QB change to try and spark the offense but it can't be Geno Petty Im fine with because I think he showed something this pre season

[Lot K Tailgaters]

One other thing.  Besides the Patriots game last year when did we ever see Fitzpatrick lead this team down the field for a come from behind victory.  I've seen plenty of fourth quarter INTs thrown trying to come from behind but that's about it.