JAMAL Takes him down!

[prime21]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Now you're getting it. 

I have.  Seems like you and Les don't.

Regardless.  He is the best player on the defense, an all pro, all rookie, team MVP and PFF all pro.  Praised by coaches, players, analysts, and media.

There always has to be some who are blinded because they are bitter that he was selected 6th.  

 

[LES]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

You have a buddy around here now that’s cool.

I’d like to speak to prime 21 now if I may.

 

[prime21]

2 minutes ago, LES said:

Maybe because jetsfan80 knows football and understands the role of a safety, ESPECIALLY in this pass crazy state the NFL has designed. The NFL has regressed to the crazy pass days of the AFL.  But you don’t know about that so ??‍♂️

The "role' of a safety has evolved due to the way the offense has.  You have to be more of a hybrid now a days than just a coverage safety. Read up on scouting reports.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Regardless.  He is the best player on the defense, an all pro, all rookie, team MVP and PFF all pro.  Praised by coaches, players, analysts, and media.

 

So how much are you talking about paying him when he hits his 2nd contract?

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So how much are you talking about paying him when he hits his 2nd contract?

What does this...have to do with anything being discussed?

[prime21]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jamal Adams fans:  "Jamal is an All-Pro, the best player on the team, dominant and elite."

Also Jamal fans:  "JAMAL NEEDS WEAPONS!!!"

The truth is, Jamal will never be anything more than the 3rd or 4th most important player on the defense.  If he wants to proclaim himself the leader of the D, cool.  But when it comes time for him to get a new contract, we should be paying him where he is slotted, or let him walk. 

I pray that Jamal becomes the 3rd or 4th most important player on the defense.  That means we have acquired some fantastic players. 

[prime21]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So how much are you talking about paying him when he hits his 2nd contract?

Really, this is what we are discussing now?

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

What does this...have to do with anything being discussed?

 

1 minute ago, prime21 said:

Really, this is what we are discussing now?

 

I'm trying to gauge exactly how much you believe Jamal Adams is worth.....to this defense, or any other. 

He's already entering year 3 of 5 of his contract, and is about to start playing under a brand new coaching staff.  So I think the question is more than relevant. 

[prime21]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

I'm trying to gauge exactly how much you believe Jamal Adams is worth.....to this defense, or any other. 

when that time comes we discuss it but we aren't there yet.  

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I pray that Jamal becomes the 3rd or 4th most important player on the defense.  That means we have acquired some fantastic players. 

PK JUST TALKED ABOUT how Jamal can't control guys like Claiborne being bad in coverage, etc.  If Jamal is the best player on the defense 2 years from now, it means we still don't have a pass rusher or # 1 corner, and will still be a bad defense.  That's the point. 

Jamal can be as good as he can be and the defense still suck.  So anointing him the 2nd coming of Ronnie Lott doesn't hold water.  He's very good at what he does, but can never impact a defense the way you guys believe he does. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I pray that Jamal becomes the 3rd or 4th most important player on the defense. 

Well have I got some good news for you, pally

[prime21]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

PK JUST TALKED ABOUT how Jamal can't control guys like Claiborne being bad in coverage, etc.  If Jamal is the best player on the defense 2 years from now, it means we still don't have a pass rusher or # 1 corner, and will still be a bad defense.  That's the point.  

Your points points are something. 

[LES]

5 minutes ago, prime21 said:

The "role' of a safety has evolved due to the way the offense has.  You have to be more of a hybrid now a days than just a coverage safety. Read up on scouting reports.  

Oh you mean like John Johnson. 3rd round 2017 draft. Gotcha. 

[prime21]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Well have I got some good news for you, pally

SHARK! SHARK!  SHARK IN THE WATERS!

[Jetsfan80]

To borrow from the position importance thread I created:

 

1.  QB:  $26 million 

2.  EDGE:  $17 million

3.  WR:  $16 million

4.  4-3 DT:  $14 million

5.  CB:  $13.5 million

6.  LT:  $13 million 

7.  3-4 DE:  $12 million 

8.  RG:  $10 million 

Safety:  $10 million

 

Jets on defense:

EDGE  --  None

4-3 DT  --  Leonard Williams

CB  --  Trumaine Johnson, Morris Claiborne

3-4 DE  --   Not applicable (switching to more of a 4-3 base look)

S  --  Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye

 

Adams is a $9-10 million caliber player and you guys seem to want to treat him like a $17-18 million guy.  That's where the issue lies.

[prime21]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

To borrow from the position importance thread I created:

 

1.  QB:  $26 million 

2.  EDGE:  $17 million

3.  WR:  $16 million

4.  4-3 DT:  $14 million

5.  CB:  $13.5 million

6.  LT:  $13 million 

7.  3-4 DE:  $12 million

8.  RG:  $10 million 

Safety:  $10 million

 

Jets on defense:

EDGE  --  None

4-3 DT  --  Leonard Williams

CB  --  Trumaine Johnson, Morris Claiborne

S  --  Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye

 

Adams is a $9-10 million caliber player and you guys want to treat him like a $17-18 million guy.  That's where the issue lies. 

 

Show me where "you guys" mentioned anything about him being a $17-18 million dollar guy?  By providing his stats and pff grade?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, prime21 said:

 

Show me where "you guys" mentioned anything about him being a $17-18 million dollar guy?  By providing his stats and pff grade?

You wouldn't answer the question, so I went ahead and assumed.  Especially since you're so keen on using words/terms like "Dominant", "Elite", "Team MVP", and "Best Player on the Team". 

[LES]

14 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I have.  Seems like you and Les don't.

Regardless.  He is the best player on the defense, an all pro, all rookie, team MVP and PFF all pro.  Praised by coaches, players, analysts, and media.

There always has to be some who are blinded because they are bitter that he was selected 6th.  

 

Best player on THIS defense. Sorry but that’s not saying a lot. 

[Patriot Killa]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

PK JUST TALKED ABOUT how Jamal can't control guys like Claiborne being bad in coverage, etc.  If Jamal is the best player on the defense 2 years from now, it means we still don't have a pass rusher or # 1 corner, and will still be a bad defense.  That's the point. 

Jamal can be as good as he can be and the defense still suck.  So anointing him the 2nd coming of Ronnie Lott doesn't hold water.  He's very good at what he does, but can never impact a defense the way you guys believe he does. 

Lol this is so ridiculous. This has nothing to do with how good of a player he is at his position. You people are claiming that he sucks in coverage and he is an average safety. You get proven wrong and then you switch to this BS about his contract and whatever else you are talking about. 

Jamal Adams is an all-around safety and top 3 at his position.. that is ALL we are trying to say and all we are trying to talk about.

[LES]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You wouldn't answer the question, so I went ahead and assumed.  Especially since you're so keen on using words/terms like "Dominant", "Elite", "Team MVP", and "Best Player on the Team". 

You forgot Pro Bowl ?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

Lol this is so ridiculous. This has nothing to do with how good of a player he is at his position. You people are claiming that he sucks in coverage and he is an average safety. You get proven wrong and then you switch to this BS about his contract and whatever else you are talking about. 

Jamal Adams is an all-around safety and top 3 at his position.. that is ALL we are trying to say and all we are trying to talk about.

I don't think your numbers are accurate.  It doesn't add up. 

[prime21]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't think your numbers are accurate.  It doesn't add up. 

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't think your numbers are accurate.  It doesn't add up. 

Prime posted the numbers along with the links to the official websites.. this is getting kind of embarrassing at this point. Anything to save face?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, prime21 said:

 

Heard you guys the first time.  I'm curious who he was covering. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Prime posted the numbers along with the links to the official websites.. this is getting kind of embarrassing at this point. Anything to save face?

What's not to get?  If he's great at everything, we shouldn't have gone 4-12 and been ranked the # 21 defense, even if the other 10 guys on the defense all were bad (which they weren't).  It doesn't add up. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Heard you guys the first time.  I'm curious who he was covering. 

Bowles had him lined up every where. My guess is a wide range of players.

pretty impressive. 

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What's not to get?  If he's great at everything, we shouldn't have gone 4-12 and been ranked the # 21 defense, even if the other 10 guys on the defense all were bad (which they weren't).  It doesn't add up. 

That’s completely not true. You are trying to use the natural impact of his position to condem him yet refuse to acknowledge how good he’s done lol. It’s a weak angle tbqh. Did you forget that Bowles played his men in ridiculous spots during passing situations? The player personnel around Adams is what it is. very JAG-like. None of the overall defenses stats correlate to Adams not being good at everything that his position requires him to be good at.

Its really weird that you continue to play this hand...

[LES]

23 minutes ago, prime21 said:

The "role' of a safety has evolved due to the way the offense has.  You have to be more of a hybrid now a days than just a coverage safety. Read up on scouting reports.  

Yes I totally agree but Adams couldn’t sniff Ronny Lott’s jock strap. But that’s exactly how you play him up to be. These guys are hybrid linebackers which is exactly what Adams is. 

Deone Bucannon and Mark Barron both came into the league thinking they would be big-hitting safeties who would put fear in receivers crossing the middle with bone-crushing hits that would wind up on highlight reels.That seems like a long time ago.They are both now linebackers, even if they don't want to hear it.

"I call myself a moneybacker or a rover," Buccannon said. 

But you're a linebacker?  "I don't like being called a linebacker," he said.  Barron is the same way, sort of.  "The term linebacker, I don't want to be called that," Barron said. "I just want to be on the field. No, it doesn't really bother me what they call me. At the same time, I get called so many things. It doesn't really matter. I think it's a hybrid." 

Bucannon, who fills the rover-moneybacker-linebacker role for the Arizona Cardinals, even warms up with the defensive backs on game days, just like he imagined when he came into the league as a safety. Barron, who came in as a first-round safety in Tampa Bay, is now a converted linebacker for the Los Angeles Ramsor, as he's listed on the depth chart, a weak safety.

In a growing league-wide trend to combat the wide-open offenses we now see in the NFL, both Bucannon and Barron are hybrid defenders, guys who can play safety but really play down in the box as a linebacker. 

[LES]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Heard you guys the first time.  I'm curious who he was covering. 

I think the tackle eligible. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, LES said:

Yes I totally agree but Adams couldn’t sniff Ronny Lott’s jock strap. But that’s exactly how you play him up to be. These guys are hybrid linebackers which is exactly what Adams is. 

Deone Bucannon and Mark Barron both came into the league thinking they would be big-hitting safeties who would put fear in receivers crossing the middle with bone-crushing hits that would wind up on highlight reels.That seems like a long time ago.They are both now linebackers, even if they don't want to hear it.

"I call myself a moneybacker or a rover," Buccannon said. 

But you're a linebacker?  "I don't like being called a linebacker," he said.  Barron is the same way, sort of.  "The term linebacker, I don't want to be called that," Barron said. "I just want to be on the field. No, it doesn't really bother me what they call me. At the same time, I get called so many things. It doesn't really matter. I think it's a hybrid." 

Bucannon, who fills the rover-moneybacker-linebacker role for the Arizona Cardinals, even warms up with the defensive backs on game days, just like he imagined when he came into the league as a safety. Barron, who came in as a first-round safety in Tampa Bay, is now a converted linebacker for the Los Angeles Ramsor, as he's listed on the depth chart, a weak safety.

In a growing league-wide trend to combat the wide-open offenses we now see in the NFL, both Bucannon and Barron are hybrid defenders, guys who can play safety but really play down in the box as a linebacker. 

Is any hybrid LBer #3 in coverage stats going by safety standards?

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

That’s completely not true. You are trying to use the natural impact of his position to condem him yet refuse to acknowledge how good he’s done lol. It’s a weak angle tbqh. Did you forget that Bowles played his men in ridiculous spots during passing situations? The player personnel around Adams is what it is. very JAG-like. None of the overall defenses stats correlate to Adams not being good at everything that his position requires him to be good at.

Its really weird that you continue to play this hand...

Per PFF, all of these guys played well above JAG level:

 

Mike Pennel - 87.1

Marcus Maye - 81.7

Steve McLendon - 78.5

Leonard Williams - 78.2

Henry Anderson - 76.5

Trumaine Johnson - 74.9

Avery Williamson - 74.3

Darron Lee - 72.4

Terrence Brooks - 71.9

Rontez Miles - 70.6

Darryl Roberts - 68.9

Tarell Basham - 68.9

[LES]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

Is any hybrid LBer #3 in coverage stats going by safety standards?

Point is the hybrid safety should be able to cover any offensive player. Adams lacks the speed to do so which is why he’ll forever be nothing more than a BOX hybrid LB. 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Per PFF, all of these guys played well above JAG level:

 

Marcus Maye - 81.7

Steve McLendon - 78.5

Leonard Williams - 78.2

Henry Anderson - 76.5

Trumaine Johnson - 74.9

Avery Williamson - 74.3

Darron Lee - 72.4

Rontez Miles - 70.6

Darryl Roberts - 68.9

All of these are considered average grades aside from Marcus Maye and his grade is skewed because he didn’t play a lot this season.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, LES said:

Point is the hybrid safety should be able to cover any offensive player. Adams lacks the speed to do so which is why he’ll forever be nothing more than a BOX hybrid LB. 

I disagree, I’ve seen him cover people outside in the cornerback position. He’s had his way with TE’s and WR’s.

[prime21]

Just now, LES said:

Point is the hybrid safety should be able to cover any offensive player. Adams lacks the speed to do so which is why he’ll forever be nothing more than a BOX hybrid LB. 

Ok.  He's a BOX hybrid LB.  Still has the same rankings.