Jet_Engine1 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Great talent....but played at a lower level, has had a few people infer that he's a bit entitled, and then theres this: Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Top 5 after he blows up the combine. Amazing talent that wayyyyy too many people are sleeping on right now. I'd take him over Quennin Williams 100 times out of 100 times because he's the type of talent other teams have to game plan for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 4:04 PM, RobR said: Top 5 after he blows up the combine. Amazing talent that wayyyyy too many people are sleeping on right now. I'd take him over Quennin Williams 100 times out of 100 times because he's the type of talent other teams have to game plan for. I love Oliver. Certainly a great prospect and could very well go in the top 5 or ahead of Q.Williams. But WOW, you are either underestimating the type of impact player Williams is or you are overestimating the impact Oliver makes. I mean, to me those guys are close- 1a, 1b as far as DT prospects. Oliver is clearly more athletic but Williams is stronger and an absolute beast inside, I mean you cannot control him with double teams. You are making is sound like there is a considerable drop-off in talent from Oliver to Williams and I assure you there is not. Williams (for better or worse) will most likely be drafted ahead of Oliver. And it could very well be the Jets who take him if they are not able to move down from #3 overall and Bosa goes #1 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 The jacket thing is a non-story to me and should have no influence on his positioning in the draft. The knee injury is a bigger concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, PepPep said: The jacket thing is a non-story to me and should have no influence on his positioning in the draft. The knee injury is a bigger concern. And the fact that most of his sack production, came against just terrible competition. He opened his career vs. Oklahoma with 2 sacks, he had 2 vs. Louisville and then it's Rice, Navy, Memphis, Tulane, Tulsa, UConn. The dregs of the NCAA. Granted, he cant control who they play. As an expert draftnik with elite project skills, I always struggle with dudes like this. If he's such a monster, shouldn't he have got to the QB more than 5 times a year vs. that type of competition? We dont need a tackler. Like Tyus Bowser. Houston kid, more productive than Oliver in college. Crazy athlete. Not much in the NFL. Hard to judge those dude when you rarely see them vs. real competition. Oliver is intriguing though. He might end up being the biggest freak at the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, JiF said: And the fact that most of his sack production, came against just terrible competition. He opened his career vs. Oklahoma with 2 sacks, he had 2 vs. Louisville and then it's Rice, Navy, Memphis, Tulane, Tulsa, UConn. The dregs of the NCAA. Granted, he cant control who they play. As an expert draftnik with elite project skills, I always struggle with dudes like this. If he's such a monster, shouldn't he have got to the QB more than 5 times a year vs. that type of competition? We dont need a tackler. Like Tyus Bowser. Houston kid, more productive than Oliver in college. Crazy athlete. Not much in the NFL. Hard to judge those dude when you rarely see them vs. real competition. Oliver is intriguing though. He might end up being the biggest freak at the combine. I think if Oliver passes the smell test in his interviews and his individual workouts after the combine, he goes #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, section314 said: I think if Oliver passes the smell test in his interviews and his individual workouts after the combine, he goes #1. He's a freak but that would be surprising. Bosa has been outstanding when on the field. He has 10.5 sacks in his last 8 games in college. That's dominant. However, there is part of me that thinks Bosa might be slightly overrated because of name. What's ironic, is I feel like in Nick Bosa's case, it's helping him that he's brothers with Joey. Whereas, TJ Watt just 2 years ago, it's almost like it hurt him. Like because he's not a clone of this brother (the way the Bosa's are) it hurt his stock despite the production and workouts of a top 10 pick, he went 30th (I'd have taken him at 6th to be honest). I personally think the difference between Bosa, Allen, Oliver, Williams are probably pretty slim and scheme and personality will be the biggest determining factor for the top 3 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, JiF said: He's a freak but that would be surprising. Bosa has been outstanding when on the field. He has 10.5 sacks in his last 8 games in college. That's dominant. However, there is part of me that thinks Bosa might be slightly overrated because of name. What's ironic, is I feel like in Nick Bosa's case, it's helping him that he's brothers with Joey. Whereas, TJ Watt just 2 years ago, it's almost like it hurt him. Like because he's not a clone of this brother (the way the Bosa's are) it hurt his stock despite the production and workouts of a top 10 pick, he went 30th (I'd have taken him at 6th to be honest). I personally think the difference between Bosa, Allen, Oliver, Williams are probably pretty slim and scheme and personality will be the biggest determining factor for the top 3 teams. Some very good points, especially on Watt. The other guy I could see moving up after the combine is Christian Wilkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, PepPep said: I love Oliver. Certainly a great prospect and could very well go in the top 5 or ahead of Q.Williams. But WOW, you are either underestimating the type of impact player Williams is or you are overestimating the impact Oliver makes.. Or you’re overestimating Q Williams. He’s a dime a dozen. Every year there’s a QW. You should know this. We’ve draft a dozen of them. Literally Leo Williams is one, who we’re considering trading if you believe that narrative. I could honestly give a fck about QW. High floor high motor guy. Great. Don’t care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, JiF said: He's a freak but that would be surprising. Bosa has been outstanding when on the field. He has 10.5 sacks in his last 8 games in college. That's dominant. However, there is part of me that thinks Bosa might be slightly overrated because of name. What's ironic, is I feel like in Nick Bosa's case, it's helping him that he's brothers with Joey. Whereas, TJ Watt just 2 years ago, it's almost like it hurt him. Like because he's not a clone of this brother (the way the Bosa's are) it hurt his stock despite the production and workouts of a top 10 pick, he went 30th (I'd have taken him at 6th to be honest). I personally think the difference between Bosa, Allen, Oliver, Williams are probably pretty slim and scheme and personality will be the biggest determining factor for the top 3 teams. TJ Watt fell because he blew out both of his knees in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, PepPep said: I love Oliver. Certainly a great prospect and could very well go in the top 5 or ahead of Q.Williams. But WOW, you are either underestimating the type of impact player Williams is or you are overestimating the impact Oliver makes. I mean, to me those guys are close- 1a, 1b as far as DT prospects. Oliver is clearly more athletic but Williams is stronger and an absolute beast inside, I mean you cannot control him with double teams. You are making is sound like there is a considerable drop-off in talent from Oliver to Williams and I assure you there is not. Williams (for better or worse) will most likely be drafted ahead of Oliver. And it could very well be the Jets who take him if they are not able to move down from #3 overall and Bosa goes #1 overall. I'll bet Oliver bests every single combine number that Quennin Williams puts up. He'll run faster, jump higher and farther, do more reps, and will destroy QW when it comes to agility drills like the 3 cone. I don't hate QW as a prospect but when you play at Bama and you are surrounded by all of those top notch players it makes his job a hell of a lot easier. Don't forget he's also a one year wonder. Oliver has been doing it since his first game as a true freshman. He's been a first team all american every year he has played and even won the outland trophy as a true sophomore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, RobR said: TJ Watt fell because he blew out both of his knees in college. In 2014. You think teams were worried about an injury from that long ago after 2 healthy seasons? He was playing TE at the time not like that was a factor from an injury perspective but maybe it was that he only played LB for 2 years? He was still a 1st round pick at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, JiF said: In 2014. You think teams were worried about an injury from that long ago after 2 healthy seasons? He was playing TE at the time not like that was a factor from an injury perspective but maybe it was that he only played LB for 2 years? He was still a 1st round pick at the end of the day. I think any player that blows out not one, but both of their knees in college is going to fall in the draft just like he did. If he didn't have the knee issues he more than likely goes top 10 that year and the Watt bloodline would only help his status, not hinder it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, RobR said: I think any player that blows out not one, but both of their knees in college is going to fall in the draft just like he did. If he didn't have the knee issues he more than likely goes top 10 that year and the Watt bloodline would only help his status, not hinder it. Fair but I legit dont remember that being the focal concern with him. The knocks on him were basically summaries that in one way or another said; he's not JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, JiF said: Fair but I legit dont remember that being the focal concern with him. The knocks on him were basically summaries that in one way or another said; he's not JJ. Why would teams care if he was not as good as his brother? At the time he was drafted his brother was the best defensive player on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, RobR said: Why would teams care if he was not as good as his brother? At the time he was drafted his brother was the best defensive player on the planet. Why would teams not want him to be as good as his brother? Not sure where this is going. Simply comparing the 2 differences in the brother situations. Especially if we are using injuries considering Bosa was injured this year and is still considered the favorite to be the #1 overall pick. Yet Watt, was injured 2 years before his draft, was fully healed and fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, JiF said: Not sure where this is going. Same here. Time to get this thread back on track about Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Speaking of Oliver - Lance Z floated this idea that Ed Oliver would make a good... Inside Linebacker. Apparently that's a hot take. and this-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, Paradis said: Speaking of Oliver - Lance Z floated this idea that Ed Oliver would make a good... Inside Linebacker. Apparently that's a hot take. and this-- First off that video was absolute crap.....so there's that. Secondly I have been saying for years now that you can put Oliver almost anywhere except maybe 5 tech. I could see him flourish at 3 tech, DE in a 4-3, OLB in a 3-4, maybe even a little MLB....but in the end he is a disrupting defensive lineman through and through. If you watch enough tape of him you will see that he did stand up on occasion. IMO to get the best out of him I think you need a 4-3 alignment and let him move around and keep his hand in the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/29/2019 at 6:05 PM, Jet_Engine1 said: Great talent....but played at a lower level, has had a few people infer that he's a bit entitled, and then theres this: Thoughts? Granted he's a good player but he sounds like a toolbag who has a problem taking direction, imagine him w/a 6 figure salary. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Prediction.....if we do, in fact, trade out of #3 for more picks, it will be with a team who wants Oliver, not one of the QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 16 hours ago, RobR said: First off that video was absolute crap.....so there's that. Secondly I have been saying for years now that you can put Oliver almost anywhere except maybe 5 tech. I could see him flourish at 3 tech, DE in a 4-3, OLB in a 3-4, maybe even a little MLB....but in the end he is a disrupting defensive lineman through and through. If you watch enough tape of him you will see that he did stand up on occasion. IMO to get the best out of him I think you need a 4-3 alignment and let him move around and keep his hand in the dirt. Yes those videos are not JN draft forum quality. My patience is waning with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2019/futures-ed-oliver Great read on Oliver courtesy @Miss Lonelyhearts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, JiF said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2019/futures-ed-oliver Great read on Oliver courtesy @Miss Lonelyhearts He's the best player in this draft.....been saying it now for three years. Here's his highlight video as a true 18yo freshman, at the same time when Quennin Williams was being redshirted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, RobR said: He's the best player in this draft.....been saying it now for three years. Here's his highlight video as a true 18yo freshman, at the same time when Quennin Williams was being redshirted. I took me a while (articles like these help) to get over the lack of numbers vs. that type of competition but I'm on board now. I'd take him all day over Williams. I'm not ready to say who I like the best of Bosa/Allen/Oliver but I guess that's a good thing as a Jets fan. As much as it would pain me to go DT for the Jets, Oliver is worth it if that's how the cards fall. That said, it would be hard for me to pass on Allen as a Jets fan who's been looking for a pass rushing OLB for like, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 A lot of mocks have him going to Buffalo at 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdels62 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 He’s the target if we trade away from Bosa/ Allen. I’m not as against Q as most are but Oliver could be the generational talent at his position. If we trade down it has to be with intel about how far Oliver will drop because missing out on Oliver after passing on Bosa would break me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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