Tension boiling over with Urban Meyer and Jags

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Guys like, y’know, Darrell Bevell and Brian Schottenheimer.  I guess if you take 2 failed OCs and merge them into one OC, they become “ackshully” good in Meyer’s eyes.  

As opposed to the highly regarded Jeff Ulbrich and Mike LaFleur COME ON BRO

[Green Ghost]

4 minutes ago, Hex said:

You think that I think Saleh has been doing ok? He's been crapping the bed. But Urban Meyer didn't just crap the bed, he set it on fire. You're using one thing from a huge list of things that Meyer has done. 

And also, I didn't read 1 hit piece to get the fumbling part. If you look it up, literally everything is either 'Meyer punished Robinson for opening-drive fumble' or 'Trevor Lawrence blasts Meyer for benching Robinson', something on the lines of that. If you can find multiple reputable sources that say that Meyer had a good reason for benching Robinson that isn't based on one mistake, go ahead and I will stand corrected

Why do you think Meyer benched the kid? Just to be a scum bag?

If we’ve learned anything about Urban Meyer over the years it’s that all he cares about is putting the best players on the field, regardless of character.

For him to bench someone who’s as good a player as Robinson, he had his reasons.

[T0mShane]

COME

ON

BRO

[Green Ghost]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

^^ One of the people who wanted us to hire Meyer and called the Johnson’s cheap for not doing so btw, ladies and gentlemen.

Saleh, almost definitely, isn’t getting fired, FTR.  In the almost non-existent chance he does?  Good luck at getting any coach worth a damn to come here.  It would be an absolutely, mind numbingly stupid decision to fire Saleh after this year.

I don’t know how Matt felt about hiring UM, but I agree Agree 100% with what you just said about Saleh.

Now do Meyer. ?

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

All fair, and valid points. I’m just in the camp that believes there’s nothing wrong with a guy coming into a bad situation, and holding everyone accountable. Even those he just brought in.

Look, I’ve hated Meyer all throughout his career. As a person, I think he’s ruthless and conniving.

Yet I’d hire him to revamp my program/ team in a second. Then I’d give him time to do it.

But there-in lies the issue.  This is what Urban Meyer looks like when he doesn’t have “a headache” or “heart issue” that conveniently arrives when his program has to go through a rebuild.  This is what he looks like when he’s actually tasked with playing against the big boys.  He’s deflecting all the blame to everyone else because he scared, cornered, rat in a cage who, for the first time, can’t scurry his way out of adversity.  He isn’t doing this for the good of the Jaguars future. He’s doing this because he can’t accept responsibility for struggling mightily at the NFL level.

[Mogglez]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

Agree 100%

Now do Meyer. ?

Meyer has a much better chance to go one and done, and absolutely no one would blame the Jaguars for letting him go.

[Hex]

1 minute ago, Green Ghost said:

Why do you think Meyer benched the kid? Just to be a scum bag?

If we’ve learned anything about Urban Meyer over the years it’s that all he cares about is putting the best players on the field, regardless of character.

For him to bench someone who’s as good a player as Robinson, he had his reasons.

If I had a nickel for every time Meyer would have to 'have his reasons' for stuff that seems beyond stupid, I would be a billionaire.

Staying behind in Ohio after losing to the Bengals, well he must have had his reasons

Alienating all of his players and scapegoating his coaches, well he has his reasons (He's a proven winner in the NFL)

If he cares about putting his best players on the field regardless of character than he should have never benched Robinson, because the only reason why he would be benched is because of bad character for some reason. Robinson is a top 10-15 RB in Yards / attempt and yet a fumble caused him to get benched for a guy that plays worse.

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As opposed to the highly regarded Jeff Ulbrich and Mike LaFleur COME ON BRO

I know you had a weird obsession with Bevell at one point, but LaFleur was not only looked at as a rising star in NFL circles at the time, much like his brother was years ago, he has also done a much better job now that he has moved to the booth, as the Jets are above the Jaguars in multiple offensive catagories, including scoring.

Ulbrich was the head scratcher for me, but Falcons fans had no complaints about him last year so no one really hated it.

[Spoot-Face]

Laugh now.

10:1 odds the Jets end up hiring this man in the near future.

[Hex]

4 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I don’t know how Matt felt about hiring UM, but I agree Agree 100% with what you just said about Saleh.

Now do Meyer. ?

People also argue about how Josh Rosen was dumped fast enough, and that if Zach really sucks this bad then he should be dumped too

But the reason Rosen was dumped was because not only was he bad, but his character was bad too. He was cocky, and his teammates didn't like him.

This can be compared with Meyer and Saleh. They are both sucking, but doing stuff like calling his coaches losers and himself a winner when it's clear everybody is sucking are the huge red flags that almost 100% of the time mean a bad coach in the future.

There's a difference between a coach who looks bad on the field and a coach who looks bad on and off the field.

[Hex]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

Laugh now.

10:1 odds the Jets end up hiring this man in the near future.

My post count would double in a day if UM was hired by the Jets

[Green Ghost]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

Meyer has a much better chance to go one and done, and absolutely no one would blame the Jaguars for letting him go.

I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t think either should or will be fired, but if it came down to who no one would be blamed, that would be the Jets. Saleh has nowhere near the credentials Meyer does.

I’ll repeat what I said earlier. He’s the only person in this conversation about NY and Jax who’s shown he knows how to win. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t think either should or will be fired, but if it came down to who no one would be blamed, that would be the Jets. Saleh has nowhere near the credentials Meyer does.

I’ll repeat what I said earlier. He’s the only person in this conversation about NY and Jax who’s shown he knows how to win. 

College “credentials” are meaningless though

nobody in the NFL cares what you did in college 

[Hex]

1 minute ago, Green Ghost said:

Saleh has nowhere near the credentials Meyer does.

Saleh has a super bowl appearance as a DC

Meyer has a total of 12 games as an NFL coach of any kind

Meyer has nowhere near the credentials Saleh does

It's all based on perception my friend

[Mogglez]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t think either should or will be fired, but if it came down to who no one would be blamed, that would be the Jets. Saleh has nowhere near the credentials Meyer does.

I’ll repeat what I said earlier. He’s the only person in this conversation about NY and Jax who’s shown he knows how to win. 

I don’t think either will be fired because I believe the sunken cost fallacy will save the dumpster fire that is Urban Meyer’s NFL tenure.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that Saleh is guy that fellow coaches and coaching candidates would be furious about seeing fired, whereas those same people don’t even believe Urban Meyer should have been given a chance.

No he’s not.  Using that logic, a successful High School coach can just be hired to a college program and replicate that success because, y’know, he’s a proven winner.  Nothing Meyer has ever done in the past proves he can coach at the NFL level.  Furthermore, everything he has done so far at the NFL level indicates that he is wildly over his head and completely out of his element.  There’s a reason why so many college HCs failed once they got to the NFL.  It’s completely different.

[Hex]

Just now, Mogglez said:

I don’t think either will be fired because I believe the sunken cost fallacy will save the dumpster fire that is Urban Meyer’s NFL tenure.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that Saleh is guy that fellow coaches and coaching candidates would be furious about seeing fired, whereas those same people don’t even believe Urban Meyer should have been given a chance.

No he’s not.  Using that logic, a successful High School coach can just be hired to a college program and replicate that success because, y’know, he’s a proven winner.  Nothing Meyer has ever done in the past proves he can coach at the NFL level.  Furthermore, everything he has done so far at the NFL level indicates that he is wildly over his head and completely out of his element.  There’s a reason why so many college HCs failed once they got to the NFL.  It’s completely different.

Khan kept the last 2 Jag coaches for way longer than he should have, enough that the coaches could compile records like 14-48 or something like that

Meyer is there to stay, which I guess is good for the Jets (Unless we want high draft picks)

[Green Ghost]

7 minutes ago, Hex said:

If I had a nickel for every time Meyer would have to 'have his reasons' for stuff that seems beyond stupid, I would be a billionaire.

Staying behind in Ohio after losing to the Bengals, well he must have had his reasons

Alienating all of his players and scapegoating his coaches, well he has his reasons (He's a proven winner in the NFL)

If he cares about putting his best players on the field regardless of character than he should have never benched Robinson, because the only reason why he would be benched is because of bad character for some reason. Robinson is a top 10-15 RB in Yards / attempt and yet a fumble caused him to get benched for a guy that plays worse.

Look, I’m not arguing Meyer is likeable.

What I AM arguing is he is way more qualified to coach a team (or decide whether someone plays) than a lot of people in the league.  I’m okay with him making people uncomfortable.
I give him the benefit of the doubt over people writing hit pieces, the same way you would with Saleh (and our coach has nowhere near the record Urban does).

 

[Hex]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

Look, I’m not arguing Meyer is likeable.

What I AM arguing is he is way more qualified to coach a team (or decide whether someone plays) than a lot of people in the league.  I’m okay with him making people uncomfortable.
I give him the benefit of the doubt over people writing hit pieces, the same way you would with Saleh (and our coach has nowhere near the record Urban does).

 

Qualified? What qualifications from the NFL does he have?

There have been a total of around 3-5 HCs in NFL history that went straight from college HC to NFL HC and were successful

Meyer's unlikability is not what I was going for, but players don't play as well for a coach they don't like either

This is the first time that Meyer's roster wasn't talented to a point. His 2 most talented players are either benched for a mistake or regressing

[T0mShane]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I know you had a weird obsession with Bevell at one point, but LaFleur was not only looked at as a rising star in NFL circles at the time, much like his brother was years ago, he has also done a much better job now that he has moved to the booth, as the Jets are above the Jaguars in multiple offensive catagories, including scoring.

Ulbrich was the head scratcher for me, but Falcons fans had no complaints about him last year so no one really hated it.

I don’t think Mike LaFleur was highly regarded in the LaFleur HOUSEHOLD

[Green Ghost]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

College “credentials” are meaningless though

nobody in the NFL cares what you did in college 

With all due respect, this couldn’t be a more false narrative.

If it was even remotely true, why did the Jags pay him millions to turn their organization around?

Why does Harbough’s name and countless other college coaches names keep coming up?

You can argue the lack of success these college coaches have had, but I’d counter that 90% of the guys hired from the NFL assistant coaching ranks fail also. It’s a hard job. ?

[Hal N of Provo]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As opposed to the highly regarded Jeff Ulbrich and Mike LaFleur COME ON BRO

His drinking buddies younger bro is doing alright lately.  I’ve got low expectations tomorrow.  
 

The defense is so bad it’s hard to figure out why.  

[Hex]

4 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

If it was even remotely true, why did the Jags pay him millions to turn their organization around?

 

You're asking why a team with one of the worst records in the last 6-7 years would pay him millions to turn their organization around? The Jets have only worse due to a magical AFC champ run by the Jags

If the Jags had the same record as the Jets instead of the AFC run, the Jets would have a much better record since 2015

[Green Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Hex said:

Qualified? What qualifications from the NFL does he have?

There have been a total of around 3-5 HCs in NFL history that went straight from college HC to NFL HC and were successful

Meyer's unlikability is not what I was going for, but players don't play as well for a coach they don't like either

This is the first time that Meyer's roster wasn't talented to a point. His 2 most talented players are either benched for a mistake or regressing

Who is the guy regressing Lawrence? Don’t even go there, ? with the year our rookie QB is having.

Or are you trying to tell me we should fire Saleh also?

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

With all due respect, this couldn’t be a more false narrative.

If it was even remotely true, why did the Jags pay him millions to turn their organization around?

Why does Harbough’s name and countless other college coaches names keep coming up?

1) The Jags are a terrible organization just like we are with an impatient owner who doesn’t know what he’s doing 

2) Harbaugh completely turned the 49ers around and took them to a Super Bowl. He has established himself as a successful NFL coach with arguably a better NFL resume than a college one. Harbaugh is a terrible example. 

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think Mike LaFleur was highly regarded in the LaFleur HOUSEHOLD

That’s fine, but in all seriousness, he was so.

[Hex]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

Who is the guy regressing Lawrence? Don’t even go there, ? with the year our rookie QB is having.

 

At least ZW has thrown more than one TD pass in the last 5 games 

ZW started off very bad and has slowly and inconsistently been getting a little better

Lawrence started off bad and has been getting worse.

 

[Green Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

His drinking buddies younger bro is doing alright lately.  I’ve got low expectations tomorrow.  
 

The defense is so bad it’s hard to figure out why.  

Hint. It’s not Urban Meyers fault.

You want to fire Meyer though, for benching a player during a game but dance around Saleh having any blame for the defense he’s running? No bias there…

[Hex]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

The Jags are a terrible organization just like we are with an impatient owner who doesn’t know what he’s doing 

Actually, the Jags owner is too patient. If he was impatient at all Meyer would have been canned over their bye.

Woody is the same, but at least he has been less intrusive

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

Hint. It’s not Urban Meyers fault.

You want to fire Meyer though, for benching a player during a game but dance around Saleh having any blame for the defense he’s running? No bias there…

Your psychic? cause I’ve never said half that.   

[Hex]

Just now, Green Ghost said:

You want to fire Meyer though, for benching a player during a game but dance around Saleh having any blame for the defense he’s running? No bias there…

Michael Carter fumbled the ball against the Patriots. Should Saleh have benched him? No, he's been having a good season.

Robinson has too, but Meyer decided the fumble was too much

Saleh totally has the blame for the bad defense, but it's been destroyed by injuries, and the Jags aren't that far behind in points allowed or yards allowed

So not only is Meyer doing bad on the same things Saleh is, he's doing bad on things Saleh is doing ok or good in

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

That’s fine, but in all seriousness, he was so.

Darrell Bevell would be great here, fyi. Mormon, to boot.

[Green Ghost]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

1) The Jags are a terrible organization just like we are with an impatient owner who doesn’t know what he’s doing 

2) Harbaugh completely turned the 49ers around and took them to a Super Bowl. He has established himself as a successful NFL coach with arguably a better NFL resume than a college one. Harbaugh is a terrible example. 

All of which can be argued, but none of which makes your earlier opinion about college coaches any more valid.

[Green Ghost]

5 minutes ago, Hex said:

Actually, the Jags owner is too patient. If he was impatient at all Meyer would have been canned over their bye.

Woody is the same, but at least he has been less intrusive

So you’re saying Saleh should’ve been fired over the bye week? I disagree.

[Green Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Hex said:

Michael Carter fumbled the ball against the Patriots. Should Saleh have benched him? No, he's been having a good season.

Robinson has too, but Meyer decided the fumble was too much

Saleh totally has the blame for the bad defense, but it's been destroyed by injuries, and the Jags aren't that far behind in points allowed or yards allowed

So not only is Meyer doing bad on the same things Saleh is, he's doing bad on things Saleh is doing ok or good in

I’ll just let this post stay unanswered. It’s a classic.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Green Ghost said:

All of which can be argued, but none of which makes your earlier opinion about college coaches any more valid.

I mean the Harbaugh example was just ridiculous, but as a larger point, college resumes have little bearing on how a HC will do in the pros. Too many guys with big college resumes have failed miserably in the pros. 
 

I also first guessed that Urban Meyer would be a disaster in Jacksonville.