For context, Zach is the 2nd youngest QB in the league

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Who is this? Is the real T0m tied up in your basement? 

Zach is probably balls, but the team beat the freaking Bills and it’s only right to put the hammers away for a few weeks. The Zach balls-hammers must stand down

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Clearly, it’s a weird year, and the offenses will eventually catch up to the defenses,

Related: Every QB stinks

 

[Larz]

Check the birth certificate.  

[FootballLove]

If a team carves out 3-4 years for a QB who started too young.....and he never learns to read defenses....that's a long 3-4 years wasted (think about the other men). Sam Darnold Syndrome. Or Mark Sanchez Syndrome.

I'm NOT saying Zack won't learn, just saying it's a huge risk. Versus letting a young QB sit 1,2 years, learning a ton of NFL stuff like training camps, coaches, etc, THEN stick him out there after his 3rd TC when he's 24-ish. You'd probably know in less than a year if the kid has it.

[dbatesman]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I have been regrettably awash in NFL podcasts for months and the inability of anyone in that Robert Mays/NFLN orbit to let go of their preseason analysis wherein the Chargers-Broncos-Raiders-Rams-Bucs-etc were going to steamroll while the Falcons-Seahawks-Giants-Jets should all be relegated has been illuminating. Clearly, it’s a weird year, and the offenses will eventually catch up to the defenses, but those august analysts are clinging to their summer takes like spider monkeys. 

The Chargers are a funny one. They absolutely adore Herbert and Staley, who are 20-20 and 14-11, respectively, with zero playoff appearances between them. The 3-6 Jags and Generational Trevor, too.

I can’t believe I’ve turned into a redass WINZ guy, but here we are.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

The Chargers are a funny one. They absolutely adore Herbert and Staley, who are 20-20 and 14-11, respectively, with zero playoff appearances between them. The 3-6 Jags and Generational Trevor, too.

I can’t believe I’ve turned into a redass WINZ guy, but here we are.

The more you listen to these guys, the more you realize that every football fan of a certain age thinks every quarterback should look like Phil Simms, and Herbert and Lawrence fit that archetype. Every piece of Nate Tice analysis is 90% aesthetics and 10% statistics. Everyone is just a fan when it comes down to it

[RutgersJetFan]

 

7 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is where I’m at too. I really don’t see him ever turning into a franchise guy, but he’s been good enough (and better than he’s generally given credit for).

I’m also exhausted by Smart Football Guys and their takes, all of which seem to boil down to “any team with a good QB is on the right track and any team that doesn’t definitely have a good QB is an afterthought, also when a team without an elite QB beats a team with one, that doesn’t count.”

Drew Brees and Peyton Manning also played in a dome so they don’t count.

[RutgersJetFan]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Marcus Mariota is 14th in that metric. Trubisky is 21. DVOA and DYAR are adjusted for opponent, so Zach is getting extra credit (as he should!) for not melting down vs the Broncos and Bills D’s. Remove the defense-adjusted part and he drops to 25th overall in both. Zach is in that sweet spot where he’s not really productive, but he’s also not entirely injurious. Which is fine! And, as based on one of your earlier observations, it’s a foundation the Jets plan to build on and expand from. (Which is the right plan!) 

Removing the adjusted part literally defeats the purpose of the entire thing. Don’t adjust for opponent, don’t adjust for quarter, don’t adjust for passing v scrambling…why bother then? Why not just go by raw total yards and touchdowns which is infinitely more useless? The whole purpose of this stuff is to remove one’s dumb self from the equation and the absolutely moronic “but what if they didn’t” nonsense. Opt for the latter and you’re no better than that football dude in this thread that blows Jets interns for insider knowledge. 

I also don’t understand why everyone telling you that Wilson not turning the ball over as much was a good thing were idiots up until now. This is ridiculously fundamental stuff that’s been a core variable of FO since they started. 

[clayton163v]

My view on Zack remains the same but is not all that bad to be honest. 

His obvious problem is his footwork when throwing from a standing position.  There is just no excuse to not do it properly.  I am not surprised by some of the poor results on screens.  Just look at his feet.  Zach is plenty accurate when he sets up properly.

The other is his poor ball handling technique behind the line of scrimmage.  The LaFleur offense depends on screens, reverses and other plays which require a QB to use some slight of hand - some trickery - to prevent the defense from reading the QB as a defensive key.  Things as simple as keeping your back to the line of scrimmage when executing ball fakes.  Keeping your elbows near your body and the ball in close.  Every handoff must be seen as a chance to set them up.    

Like Sam, Zach is uncomfortable under center.  That too must change. 

The good news?  This is not an inability to read NFL defenses (Mark Sanchez).  This is not an inability to avoid bonehead plays or get along with people (Geno Smith).  This is not poor play with little upside (Until things change, that is the story of Sam Darnold).  This is some fine tuning for a person who is still very young.

Zach needs to spend a month or two with Chad Pennington.  Hey Zach, you can find him at Cal.  Last I looked, he hangs around his alma mater.  Chad had this stuff down pat.  Perfect technique and his ball handling was the best in Jet history.  Chad's play action was money.  Too bad he was made of paper mache.  He also had this huge windup with a big step forward.  He was even slower than Kenny O.  Which is truly tough.  Yet I am convinced Chad can help Zach.

Hey old Jet fans?  Am I right or what?  Chad knows what Zach needs to learn.

 

[Mario]

22 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

My view on Zack remains the same but is not all that bad to be honest. 

His obvious problem is his footwork when throwing from a standing position.  There is just no excuse to not do it properly.  I am not surprised by some of the poor results on screens.  Just look at his feet.  Zach is plenty accurate when he sets up properly.

The other is his poor ball handling technique behind the line of scrimmage.  The LaFleur offense depends on screens, reverses and other plays which require a QB to use some slight of hand - some trickery - to prevent the defense from reading the QB as a defensive key.  Things as simple as keeping your back to the line of scrimmage when executing ball fakes.  Keeping your elbows near your body and the ball in close.  Every handoff must be seen as a chance to set them up.    

Like Sam, Zach is uncomfortable under center.  That too must change. 

The good news?  This is not an inability to read NFL defenses (Mark Sanchez).  This is not an inability to avoid bonehead plays or get along with people (Geno Smith).  This is not poor play with little upside (Until things change, that is the story of Sam Darnold).  This is some fine tuning for a person who is still very young.

Zach needs to spend a month or two with Chad Pennington.  Hey Zach, you can find him at Cal.  Last I looked, he hangs around his alma mater.  Chad had this stuff down pat.  Perfect technique and his ball handling was the best in Jet history.  Chad's play action was money.  Too bad he was made of paper mache.  He also had this huge windup with a big step forward.  He was even slower than Kenny O.  Which is truly tough.  Yet I am convinced Chad can help Zach.

Hey old Jet fans?  Am I right or what?  Chad knows what Zach needs to learn.

 

He just needs to play better. Hopefully he can. 
 

I said it after the game. I love the fact that ZW was getting pissy with the media after the NE game. You can tell he was pissed off. You never saw that from Darnold, Sanchez, or Geno. 

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Removing the adjusted part literally defeats the purpose of the entire thing. Don’t adjust for opponent, don’t adjust for quarter, don’t adjust for passing v scrambling…why bother then? Why not just go by raw total yards and touchdowns which is infinitely more useless? The whole purpose of this stuff is to remove one’s dumb self from the equation and the absolutely moronic “but what if they didn’t” nonsense. Opt for the latter and you’re no better than that football dude in this thread that blows Jets interns for insider knowledge. 

I also don’t understand why everyone telling you that Wilson not turning the ball over as much was a good thing were idiots up until now. This is ridiculously fundamental stuff that’s been a core variable of FO since they started. 

Honestly, I didn’t think I was impugning Zach Wilson or DVOA or FO(?) I was just offering some context showing there are certain blind spots (as Schatz himself will tell you) when you get past that top ten range. Zach showing up at 20 in DVOA is objectively good for him relative to where he has been.