Centers

[Sonny Werblin]

I think the chances of the Jets drafting a Center with one of their first 3 picks is high, especially since this will be a strong draft class at Center and McGovern is entering free agency. So, who you got,

I really like 3 of the Centers:

Joe Tippmann  6'6" 317 lbs  - Wisconsin - a rare specimen with great athleticism for his size. Is a 6'6" Center to tall when your QB is "listed" at 6'2"??  He is an absolute mauler in the run game and with that wing span and size, he's be tough to pass rush against. Imagine in a perfect world a Brown, Herbig Tippmann, AVT, Becton line. Sign me up for Breece Hall's 2,000 yard season.

John Michael Schmitz - 6'4" 321 lbs - Minnesota - the safest bet and probably many GMs top ranked Center. He is a plug and play starting Center.

Sedrick Van Pran - 6'4" 310 - Georgia -  Only 21 and is not a near finished product like the other 2 above, but he keeps getting better and has big time experience with a national championship.

I'd love to see any of these 3 at C next season. Are there any others that the Jets should consider?

[Jetsfan80]

* Centres

 

@Irish Jet

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Jarrett patterson was draftable last year If he came out. Haven’t checked out a ton of ND this year, but he was a guy with good agility for zone blocking and upside that I assume would be a good fit. 

 

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Jarrett patterson was draftable last year If he came out. Haven’t checked out a ton of ND this year, but he was a guy with good agility for zone blocking and upside that I assume would be a good fit. 

 

Interesting thing to note.  While this offensive scheme uses a lot of outside zone runs, I believe when you look at the jets success this year you will see a shift in their run game philosophy. 

 

I have said this multiple times this year to friends here and possibly posted it here as well, but the jets are not a zone blocking team anymore (at least not primarily).  This is a gap scheme run team, and the majority of their big runs this season have come on the heels of Counter, Trap, and Power.  

Early in the year when the offense was struggling to get a consistent run game, I was pounding the table to move away from outside zone and move towards a gap scheme approach as it is easier for an Offensive Line that basically has new starters every week.  The thing that zone teams have that make them successful is consistency.  Zone requires a ton of chemistry, especially on double teams, and particularly pacing on outside zone requires this.  With no consistency on the line it made no sense to be bashing our heads into the wall to hammer outside zone.  INSTEAD, Lafluer did something very smart.  He Flipped the script.  The jets use their power and counter to get big plays and consistency in the run game then use outside zone as their changeup instead of the other way around.  

So when scouting offensive lineman this year it will be interesting to see which way they decide to go with this.  Do they want to hammer home the outside zone and look to draft guys that fit that mold. OR do they embrace the success they have had and find guys that can maul a little bit. 

[clayton163v]

5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I think the chances of the Jets drafting a Center with one of their first 3 picks is high, especially since this will be a strong draft class at Center and McGovern is entering free agency. So, who you got,

I really like 3 of the Centers:

Joe Tippmann  6'6" 317 lbs  - Wisconsin - a rare specimen with great athleticism for his size. Is a 6'6" Center to tall when your QB is "listed" at 6'2"??  He is an absolute mauler in the run game and with that wing span and size, he's be tough to pass rush against. Imagine in a perfect world a Brown, Herbig Tippmann, AVT, Becton line. Sign me up for Breece Hall's 2,000 yard season.

John Michael Schmitz - 6'4" 321 lbs - Minnesota - the safest bet and probably many GMs top ranked Center. He is a plug and play starting Center.

Sedrick Van Pran - 6'4" 310 - Georgia -  Only 21 and is not a near finished product like the other 2 above, but he keeps getting better and has big time experience with a national championship.

I'd love to see any of these 3 at C next season. Are there any others that the Jets should consider?

 

Tippman looks to be a late round guy but he has a chance.   Ricky Stromberg at Arkansas and this year's Ohio State Center Luke Wypler are other late rounders who might surprise. 

I would add Steve Avila at TCU and Jarrett Patterson at Notre Dame - who is the top Center imo - to your list of Centers.  That rounds out the best of the Center/Guard prospects this year.

As was pointed out in another thread, the Tomlinson deal only contains one year of guaranteed money.  The emergence of Herbig at guard gives the Jets flexibility to let Tomlinson go and play AVT and Herbig at Guard alongside a new Center via the draft.  In that case, we might take a guard.  I would love the top Guard O'Cyrus Torrance and later round Guard Ekiyor from Alabama as possibilities.  Torrance is a monster.

McGovern has played well when surrounded by merely guards.  The much maligned Feeney played well in three starts last year.  He has also started whole seasons at guard and center.   Since free agency takes place before the draft, we will know where we stand before the picks begin.

 

3 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Jarrett patterson was draftable last year If he came out. Haven’t checked out a ton of ND this year, but he was a guy with good agility for zone blocking and upside that I assume would be a good fit. 

 

Indeed.  Real good player and clean kid.  Like Iowa, Notre Dame has been a lineman factory. 

2 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Interesting thing to note.  While this offensive scheme uses a lot of outside zone runs, I believe when you look at the jets success this year you will see a shift in their run game philosophy. 

 

I have said this multiple times this year to friends here and possibly posted it here as well, but the jets are not a zone blocking team anymore (at least not primarily).  This is a gap scheme run team, and the majority of their big runs this season have come on the heels of Counter, Trap, and Power.  

Early in the year when the offense was struggling to get a consistent run game, I was pounding the table to move away from outside zone and move towards a gap scheme approach as it is easier for an Offensive Line that basically has new starters every week.  The thing that zone teams have that make them successful is consistency.  Zone requires a ton of chemistry, especially on double teams, and particularly pacing on outside zone requires this.  With no consistency on the line it made no sense to be bashing our heads into the wall to hammer outside zone.  INSTEAD, Lafluer did something very smart.  He Flipped the script.  The jets use their power and counter to get big plays and consistency in the run game then use outside zone as their changeup instead of the other way around.  

So when scouting offensive lineman this year it will be interesting to see which way they decide to go with this.  Do they want to hammer home the outside zone and look to draft guys that fit that mold. OR do they embrace the success they have had and find guys that can maul a little bit. 

I was wondering about that.  The plays we ran last week were unfamiliar.   I could not remember our guards crossing the formation in the backfield like Herbig was doing.  And doing well. 

As for future philosophy, on the one hand the Jets have already jumped off the pier with several draft picks.  On the other hand, AVTs review did not mention superior lateral movement which I thought odd at the time.  He was the top guy though.  I suspect the top guy can play any style. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

3 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Interesting thing to note.  While this offensive scheme uses a lot of outside zone runs, I believe when you look at the jets success this year you will see a shift in their run game philosophy. 

 

I have said this multiple times this year to friends here and possibly posted it here as well, but the jets are not a zone blocking team anymore (at least not primarily).  This is a gap scheme run team, and the majority of their big runs this season have come on the heels of Counter, Trap, and Power.  

Early in the year when the offense was struggling to get a consistent run game, I was pounding the table to move away from outside zone and move towards a gap scheme approach as it is easier for an Offensive Line that basically has new starters every week.  The thing that zone teams have that make them successful is consistency.  Zone requires a ton of chemistry, especially on double teams, and particularly pacing on outside zone requires this.  With no consistency on the line it made no sense to be bashing our heads into the wall to hammer outside zone.  INSTEAD, Lafluer did something very smart.  He Flipped the script.  The jets use their power and counter to get big plays and consistency in the run game then use outside zone as their changeup instead of the other way around.  

So when scouting offensive lineman this year it will be interesting to see which way they decide to go with this.  Do they want to hammer home the outside zone and look to draft guys that fit that mold. OR do they embrace the success they have had and find guys that can maul a little bit. 

It's a very good point. Thanks for the call-out. You're right that the inside zone, counter, trap, power has dominated recently. I wonder though about the chicken and egg though in terms of draft philosophy. I'm glad MLF is flexible in his playcall, but if they had the team personnel and (healthy) to run outside zone, would that be the system they want to role with ideally? I think about last year and the shift in 12 personnel usage and the return of the 2 TE sets we've been running this year. Just like with Breece and MC this year we ran more 2 RB sets to take advantage of the strengths of the personnel.

[maury77]

I had not noticed that change @Chrebetfan80, nice catch.

[Sonny Werblin]

On 11/9/2022 at 12:16 PM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Jarrett patterson was draftable last year If he came out. Haven’t checked out a ton of ND this year, but he was a guy with good agility for zone blocking and upside that I assume would be a good fit. 

 

Patterson has some weaknesses as a run blocker and has had injury issues in the past. Also, he's playing LG this season. Zeke Correll has been Notre Dame's Center.

[Sonny Werblin]

Ricky Stromberg - 6'4" 318 - Arkansas - is another very good C to add to the list. He's got a high football IQ but is not as gifted an athlete as some of the others, but hey unless we are asking him to pull like Kevin Mawe most Centers play in a phone booth.

[kdels62]

It’s gonna be John Michael Schmitz. He’s put up years of good play at this point. Good move, gonna go in rounds 2-3. He just fits. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:03 PM, Sonny Werblin said:

Patterson has some weaknesses as a run blocker and has had injury issues in the past. Also, he's playing LG this season. Zeke Correll has been Notre Dame's Center.

They switched him out of need to get the best 5 on the field.

Correll can only play center where Patterson could play both at a high level.

Imo, Patterson could still be considered a center in this class. 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:27 PM, clayton163v said:

 

Indeed.  Real good player and clean kid.  Like Iowa, Notre Dame has been a lineman factory. 

I was wondering about that.  The plays we ran last week were unfamiliar.   I could not remember our guards crossing the formation in the backfield like Herbig was doing.  And doing well. 

As for future philosophy, on the one hand the Jets have already jumped off the pier with several draft picks.  On the other hand, AVTs review did not mention superior lateral movement which I thought odd at the time.  He was the top guy though.  I suspect the top guy can play any style. 

I think they tried fitting alot of elite athletes and top end talent into a line and scheme to see how it would play out.  I think in time with alot of effort and practice we can be a good outside zone team, however it is realllllly difficult to do well if 1, you have a rotating door at positions which we have had, and 2 do not have the consistency in technique or chemistry. 

We are a much better Gap scheme run team currently.  Not only in execution but in personnel

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:15 AM, maury77 said:

I had not noticed that change @Chrebetfan80, nice catch.

Yea I mean when you help build an offense for 4 years and build it all around power and counter you tend to know it when you see it.  

year 12 of coaching and I'm still going strong!

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:00 PM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It's a very good point. Thanks for the call-out. You're right that the inside zone, counter, trap, power has dominated recently. I wonder though about the chicken and egg though in terms of draft philosophy. I'm glad MLF is flexible in his playcall, but if they had the team personnel and (healthy) to run outside zone, would that be the system they want to role with ideally? I think about last year and the shift in 12 personnel usage and the return of the 2 TE sets we've been running this year. Just like with Breece and MC this year we ran more 2 RB sets to take advantage of the strengths of the personnel.

It depends.  I think it depends how you want the offense to operate.  I think as much as they like rolling Wilson out, they seem to feel better about him using straight back play action and straight drop back.  With that, it really doesnt behoove us to be a primary outside zone run team. 

The more I see this offense the more i believe its in the style of Green Bay and not as much of San Fran.  Miami has built their offense more in a San fran model, with a more explosive RPO element.   We really thought with MLF coming from San fran he was going to be a big outside zone system, and they certainly tried that, but i think they are viewing wilson as an Aaron Rodgers style QB and saying his skill set is more tailored to the GB model.  

Just my personal opinion watching the games.