Jets brining in DT Al Woods for a visit

[jtomm]

1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

The Steelers snatching Jonathan Marshall off the practice squad is a big deal now. He was developing nicely and seemed ready to tae the next step. We are not used to other teams taking our PS players that's for sure

True. j.marshall was making good progress. the steelers were paying attention & improved their roster by getting him. 

[varjet]

5 minutes ago, jtomm said:

True. j.marshall was making good progress. the steelers were paying attention & improved their roster by getting him. 

JD was able to overpay guys like Rankins because he was not paying a QB.

It was Mac who was able to draft a semi-solid DT (Shepherd) who contributed for five years.  

The contributions of JDs mid/low round draft picks is surprisingly weak, which is why the Jets will not be as good as we expect/hope.

If you look at the 49ers, their LB/Secondary are largely day 3 picks.   The Eagles OL has several day 3 picks solidly contributing.  

JD does better with FA and other team's cuts then he does his own draft picks.  I think he has a fundamental issue with his college scouting staff.  

[#27TheDominator]

35 minutes ago, varjet said:

JD was able to overpay guys like Rankins because he was not paying a QB.

It was Mac who was able to draft a semi-solid DT (Shepherd) who contributed for five years.  

The contributions of JDs mid/low round draft picks is surprisingly weak, which is why the Jets will not be as good as we expect/hope.

If you look at the 49ers, their LB/Secondary are largely day 3 picks.   The Eagles OL has several day 3 picks solidly contributing.  

JD does better with FA and other team's cuts then he does his own draft picks.  I think he has a fundamental issue with his college scouting staff.  

Shepherd was 72 overall, a fairly early 3rd rounder.  He was a 25 year old rookie that did not contribute much early on.  Your points about Douglas are valid, but Shepherd is no demonstration that Mac was any better.  To be fair, Douglas didn't have any picks after the 4th last year and Clemons and Mitchell appeared solid enough.  Pinnock, Carter, and Echols seem solid enough day 3 picks.  Mann is a punter, so I throw that one out, but no real complaints about Hall either.  Just seems that he spent all those damned picks on the defensive backfield.  Hopefully, he is trending better. 

[CanadaSteve]

44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Shepherd was 72 overall, a fairly early 3rd rounder.  He was a 25 year old rookie that did not contribute much early on.  Your points about Douglas are valid, but Shepherd is no demonstration that Mac was any better.  To be fair, Douglas didn't have any picks after the 4th last year and Clemons and Mitchell appeared solid enough.  Pinnock, Carter, and Echols seem solid enough day 3 picks.  Mann is a punter, so I throw that one out, but no real complaints about Hall either.  Just seems that he spent all those damned picks on the defensive backfield.  Hopefully, he is trending better. 

Yeah...I'm not sure what people are expecting from the 4th round on.  Its almost like if we don't find pro bowlers, or at the very least starters, then they are 'weak' picks.  While early, Jeremy Ruckert, Max Mitchell, and Michael Clemons look like decent picks.  Michael Carter, Jamien Sherwood, Michael Carter, Jason Pinnock, Jonathan Marshall, Brandin Echols, Hamsah Nisilaradeen, and Brandon Echols.  Not so bad so far, given they are all still in the league.  His first draft, not so good.  Bryce Hall has played great until last year.  The rest, not so well.  Cameron Clark might very well have been a good pick.  I was high on that guy.  Injury ends his career.  That is never on the GM.  

[#27TheDominator]

38 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yeah...I'm not sure what people are expecting from the 4th round on.  Its almost like if we don't find pro bowlers, or at the very least starters, then they are 'weak' picks.  While early, Jeremy Ruckert, Max Mitchell, and Michael Clemons look like decent picks.  Michael Carter, Jamien Sherwood, Michael Carter, Jason Pinnock, Jonathan Marshall, Brandin Echols, Hamsah Nisilaradeen, and Brandon Echols.  Not so bad so far, given they are all still in the league.  His first draft, not so good.  Bryce Hall has played great until last year.  The rest, not so well.  Cameron Clark might very well have been a good pick.  I was high on that guy.  Injury ends his career.  That is never on the GM.  

I agree with everything except that last sentence.  Sometimes the injuries are on the GM.  Clark was a fluke thing.  Somebody like Hall though was coming off a serious injury.  That was part of what made him fall. It is a calculated risk.  Some guys get hurt a bunch.  They are smaller and can't hold up, etc.  So, I agree about Clark, just not the "never." 

[varjet]

What JD day 3 picks are starting for the Jets?

MC looked good year 1 and then less so.  MCII is a solid pick.

The OL is all FAs and 1st round picks-if Mitchell can play that would be great.  WR is all FA and first round draft pick.  TE are all FAs.  The QB will be a FA.

The DL is mixed but Clemons is the only day 3 pick.  LB we are waiting for JD's draft picks to appear.  CB is rd 1 and FA.  Echols is a solid back up.  S, where you are supposed to find good starters day 3, can't even get Ashtyn Davis to play decently.  Let's see if Adams or others can play this year.

I don't think there is any question that JD has underachieved on his Day 3 picks. 

[Dunnie]

DTs make great brine.




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[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I agree with everything except that last sentence.  Sometimes the injuries are on the GM.  Clark was a fluke thing.  Somebody like Hall though was coming off a serious injury.  That was part of what made him fall. It is a calculated risk.  Some guys get hurt a bunch.  They are smaller and can't hold up, etc.  So, I agree about Clark, just not the "never." 

Fair.  I think that is sometimes a good place to take guys with risk like Hall, in the lower rounds.

But when you risk with high picks, you are gambling a little too much.  I COMPLETELY understand why we took Becton.  We needed a LT, and he could have been a DOMINANT LT.  But weight issues and two knee surgeries later, we may well have wasted an entire draft worth of picks (almost).

For the most part, I like the picks we have taken in later rounds, and like how they have been developed.  I have a feeling we were trying to sneak Jason Pinnock on the practice squad, and Marshall was outright poached.  That to me is a good sign that we are finding talent later in the draft.  

[Thai Jet]

22 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

speaking of which: The Ravens just offered Odell Beckham Jr a contract

Good for them. Hope he signs it soon. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Fair.  I think that is sometimes a good place to take guys with risk like Hall, in the lower rounds.

But when you risk with high picks, you are gambling a little too much.  I COMPLETELY understand why we took Becton.  We needed a LT, and he could have been a DOMINANT LT.  But weight issues and two knee surgeries later, we may well have wasted an entire draft worth of picks (almost).

For the most part, I like the picks we have taken in later rounds, and like how they have been developed.  I have a feeling we were trying to sneak Jason Pinnock on the practice squad, and Marshall was outright poached.  That to me is a good sign that we are finding talent later in the draft.  

Yeah.  When you get a little bit of depth it becomes easier to poach guys. What separates the guys on the active roster vs. waived may end up being more - how they are on specials, or which position has more injuries.  That is how they lost Woodhead.  Clowney was better on specials and they were thinner at WR than RB.  I like Pinnock.  He was physically a fair corner prospect.  They outright kept Tony Adams over him, but I am pretty sure they wanted both.  Sometimes they might also cut a guy who has a minor ding that they might not be able to play a particular week.  People get too hung up on the moves at the bottom of the roster, but there usually is some logic behind them we might not always see.  =

[bitonti]

9 hours ago, Bocajetfan said:

Most likely not faster but quite possibly quicker. With experience can come quickness and that can out preform speed. Quickness and anticipation are key elements for longevity of players in the league.

he's 36 and played 12 seasons

he has documented long-term achillies' tendon issues

cmon

he's not faster or quicker than he was coming out 

[bitonti]

6 hours ago, varjet said:

JD does better with FA and other team's cuts then he does his own draft picks.  I think he has a fundamental issue with his college scouting staff.  

the Zach Wilson evaluation is exhibit A in that case 

 

[Bocajetfan]

25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he's 36 and played 12 seasons

he has documented long-term achillies' tendon issues

cmon

he's not faster or quicker than he was coming out 

Father Time catches up eventually. When a player can last 12 seasons I believe he has gotten quicker. That player has evolved to the point he is much faster to read and react to what is happening in front of him. It’s the mental part of the game that makes him quicker.

[#27TheDominator]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

What JD day 3 picks are starting for the Jets?

MC looked good year 1 and then less so.  MCII is a solid pick.

The OL is all FAs and 1st round picks-if Mitchell can play that would be great.  WR is all FA and first round draft pick.  TE are all FAs.  The QB will be a FA.

The DL is mixed but Clemons is the only day 3 pick.  LB we are waiting for JD's draft picks to appear.  CB is rd 1 and FA.  Echols is a solid back up.  S, where you are supposed to find good starters day 3, can't even get Ashtyn Davis to play decently.  Let's see if Adams or others can play this year.

I don't think there is any question that JD has underachieved on his Day 3 picks. 

I think this is a fair enough assessment, but we have to remember that later picks generally take time to develop.  If these guys were instant starters they'd have gone earlier.  There is reason to think a bunch of those guys will contribute. OTOH you can't count on guys improving.  That is what made us think Mims and Becton would be great in 2021 and Moore would light up 2022.