The Great Jeff Ulbrich

[JetsMetsRangers]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

LOL complaining about or D.  Jets message board fans  

Amazing, maybe the worst offense in the history of the NFL........Rarely playing with the lead, holding many top QB's to paltry games this year but lets bitch about the DC......Most games the only reason we are in the game at all.....Silly nonsense!

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Amazing, maybe the worst offense in the history of the NFL........Rarely playing with the lead, holding many top QB's to paltry games this year but lets bitch about the DC......Most games the only reason we are in the game at all.....Silly nonsense!

So our DC is above criticism because our offense is really bad?

[JetsMetsRangers]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So our DC is above criticism because our offense is really bad?

No but when you put up 4 yards of offense in the first half and no time of possession kind of out there bitching about the DC......Reed has been very good all year and had a bad game........

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

No but when you put up 4 yards of offense in the first half and no time of possession kind of out there bitching about the DC......Reed has been very good all year and had a bad game........

It was a must-win to keep our season alive game and our defense got lit up by a team that was missing their MVP candidate WR.  And our DC had our superstar CB guarding Braxton Berrios, despite Waddle getting 8 catches.

Not good!

[JetsMetsRangers]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It was a must-win to keep our season alive game and our defense got lit up by a team that was missing their MVP candidate WR.  And our DC had our superstar CB guarding Braxton Berrios, despite Waddle getting 8 catches.

Not good!

Not good is having 4 yards of offense and being totally inept for the majority of the season.............Guess what if the D played lights out and gave up 3 points we still lose because we scored zero!

 

[UntouchableCrew]

5 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Fun fact about the Saleh/Wilson era:

The Jets have had 5 games in their history with 103 yards or fewer - Saleh/Wilson were the coach/QB for 3 of them. 

Yeah... Feels like a QB issue to me.

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Not good is having 4 yards of offense and being totally inept for the majority of the season.............Guess what if the D played lights out and gave up 3 points we still lose because we scored zero!

 

Exactly.

Defense could have held them to 3 points, 125 total yards and forced three turnovers -- still losing all three categories because of our historically inept offense.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Not good is having 4 yards of offense and being totally inept for the majority of the season.............Guess what if the D played lights out and gave up 3 points we still lose because we scored zero!

But they didn't.

[JetsMetsRangers]

13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Exactly.

Defense could have held them to 3 points, 125 total yards and forced three turnovers -- still losing all three categories because of our historically inept offense.

And that terrific offense immediately put the D in the hole with a fumble at our 1 yard line and a feeble attempt at a fake punt in our own territory so with an offense that rarely scores more than 10 PPG......Game over but the defense needs scrutiny......A laugh riot Alice.....;)

 

[TuscanyTile2]

23 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

And that terrific offense immediately put the D in the hole with a fumble at our 1 yard line and a feeble attempt at a fake punt in our own territory so with an offense that rarely scores more than 10 PPG......Game over but the defense needs scrutiny......A laugh riot Alice.....;)

The bottom line is it was a must-win game (to save the season) against a team that was missing their superstar WR and we still let the Dolphins destroy us in the passing game.  And our DC wasn't flexible enough to put Sauce on Waddle.  You don't think we could upgrade from Ulbrich in the offseason if we needed to?  And do it without hurting our chance to improve the offense (which is obviously where the much deeper problems lie)

[varjet]

• If and when the Jets get their Act together, Ulbrich will be a HC candidate.  Some team will hire him.  He may need to be a DC on another team to get that opportunity.
• I think we underestimate an important part of what makes Saleh and Ulbrich good defensive coaches-SCOUTING.  The two of them can identify players to draft and sign who will be good in their defense.  They did that in SF and Atlanta too.  
• So basically, JD and his scouts do very little.  Defense has done their own scouting and done well.  Offense has no one to scout.  JD is doing no scouting-he picked Becton over Wirfs.  
• Saleh and Ulbrich are good defensive coaches.  They will always have jobs in the NFL.  Mac and Gase are done.  JD is a coin flip at this point.   This is Hackett's last real job.  Keith Carter may have problems. 

[shawn306]

It is called making adjustments in game

Why they did not have Sauce on Waddle when they saw Reed was having issues is criminal. 

[rex-n-effect]

43 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Not good is having 4 yards of offense and being totally inept for the majority of the season.............Guess what if the D played lights out and gave up 3 points we still lose because we scored zero!

 

Ok but think past this clunker of a year. Say Rodgers comes back, Douglas patches up OL and WR and the offense is moving the ball and putting points on the board next year.

Is Ulbrich (or Ulbrich and Saleh) doing enough with the talent at his disposal to hold good teams back and allow the offense to win? Or is that a team that can beat the bad teams and hope an easy schedule lets them back into the playoffs? How much of the defense is player talent versus scheme versus game to game coaching? If player talent is carrying the day, this offseason is a good time to think about what changes could make the defense even better. 

IMO the defensive production is a lot about player talent, a scheme that only survives on a high level of player talent and opposing teams knowing they don't need to throw up thirty points to win a game. I can't point to anything in particular that credits the in-game coaching with that production but I can certainly point to the minimal in-game adjustments and opponent planning as contributors to games like Sunday where there were glaring opportunities. And maybe this is not Ulbrich so much as it is Saleh's insistence on relying on the system and not coaching. 

[JetsMetsRangers]

3 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Ok but think past this clunker of a year. Say Rodgers comes back, Douglas patches up OL and WR and the offense is moving the ball and putting points on the board next year.

Is Ulbrich (or Ulbrich and Saleh) doing enough with the talent at his disposal to hold good teams back and allow the offense to win? Or is that a team that can beat the bad teams and hope an easy schedule lets them back into the playoffs? How much of the defense is player talent versus scheme versus game to game coaching? If player talent is carrying the day, this offseason is a good time to think about what changes could make the defense even better. 

IMO the defensive production is a lot about player talent, a scheme that only survives on a high level of player talent and opposing teams knowing they don't need to throw up thirty points to win a game. I can't point to anything in particular that credits the in-game coaching with that production but I can certainly point to the minimal in-game adjustments and opponent planning as contributors to games like Sunday where there were glaring opportunities. And maybe this is not Ulbrich so much as it is Saleh's insistence on relying on the system and not coaching. 

Well besides the Houston game where again zero points in the first half before exploding for 30 in the second half,,,,, the previous 7 games the JETS averaged 8.4 yards a game during that time and actually less because we has a pick six also........Tough to blame the defense when you play from behind 90% of the time and knoe if you give up 10 points you are likely to lose.......;)

[JetsMetsRangers]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The bottom line is it was a must-win game (to save the season) against a team that was missing their superstar WR and we still let the Dolphins destroy us in the passing game.  And our DC wasn't flexible enough to put Sauce on Waddle.  You don't think we could upgrade from Ulbrich in the offseason if we needed to?  And do it without hurting our chance to improve the offense (which is obviously where the much deeper problems lie)

A must win game where we scored ZERO points....lol!

 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Well besides the Houston game where again zero points in the first half before exploding for 30 in the second half,,,,, the previous 7 games the JETS averaged 8.4 yards a game during that time and actually less because we has a pick six also........Tough to blame the defense when you play from behind 90% of the time and knoe if you give up 10 points you are likely to lose.......;)

If there was somehow a version of a league-average DC, what would you expect them to do given the talent we have?  I think we'd still be top 10.  So for Ulbrich to "impress", he really has to do well.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/articles/nfl/2023-nfl-defense-rankings-team-pass-and-rush-stats

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

A must win game where we scored ZERO points....lol!

If we gave up 70 points yesterday, the points you're making (about our offense) would still apply.

So in your opinion, is Jeff Ulbrich above criticism?

[JetsMetsRangers]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If we gave up 70 points yesterday, the points you're making (about our offense) would still apply.

So in your opinion, is Jeff Ulbrich above criticism?

Not above criticism just misplaced in my view........Seems when you have a historically inept offense that rarely gives you a lead to play with.......Rarely wins the TOP and has scored i believe 10 offensive TD's in 14 games the problem is not with Ulbrich and the D......When we actually looked like a professional Offense last week and were ahead the D shut Houston down.......And if the reason Sauce does not travel to cover the best WR is on Ulbrich that is fair but we do have a head coach who could change that!

 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, JetsMetsRangers said:

Not above criticism just misplaced in my view........Seems when you have a historically inept offense that rarely gives you a lead to play with.......Rarely wins the TOP and has scored i believe 10 offensive TD's in 14 games the problem is not with Ulbrich and the D......When we actually looked like a professional Offense last week and were ahead the D shut Houston down.......And if the reason Sauce does not travel to cover the best WR is on Ulbrich that is fair but we do have a head coach who could change that!

Everyone (including me! lol) knows that the overwhelming problem with this team is the offense.  But I still think our DC deserves scrutiny (when called for) as well.  

 

Quote

And if the reason Sauce does not travel to cover the best WR is on Ulbrich that is fair but we do have a head coach who could change that!

Agree 100%.  I think Saleh deserves to be fired.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 other points I want to raise (that both occurred to me when watching this JetsCentral video, though the video didn't talk about this stuff in relation to the defense):

1) We played the Dolphins 2 weeks prior.  We played a good defensive game the first time around (I think the game got away from us after that crazy INT TD).  The 2nd time around, though, the Dolphins did much better against our defense (and without Tyreek Hill, plus a banged up OL).   To me, that indicates the Dolphins' CS made better adjustments against us than we did against them.  Of course, our DC is apparently inflexible and our HC didn't overrule him.

2) At 7:30 of the video, he talks about Buffalo having a top 10 offense but "not settling".  McDermott fired Ken Dorsey because he felt they could do better.  And, so far, they're doing a lot better under Joe Brady.  With the egg our defense laid on Sunday (again, in a true must-win game against a team with a banged up OL and without Tyreek Hill) maybe the Jets ought to consider this as well.

 

[#27TheDominator]

58 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

2 other points I want to raise (that both occurred to me when watching this JetsCentral video, though the video didn't talk about this stuff in relation to the defense):

1) We played the Dolphins 2 weeks prior.  We played a good defensive game the first time around (I think the game got away from us after that crazy INT TD).  The 2nd time around, though, the Dolphins did much better against our defense (and without Tyreek Hill, plus a banged up OL).   To me, that indicates the Dolphins' CS made better adjustments against us than we did against them.  Of course, our DC is apparently inflexible and our HC didn't overrule him.

2) At 7:30 of the video, he talks about Buffalo having a top 10 offense but "not settling".  McDermott fired Ken Dorsey because he felt they could do better.  And, so far, they're doing a lot better under Joe Brady.  With the egg our defense laid on Sunday (again, in a true must-win game against a team with a banged up OL and without Tyreek Hill) maybe the Jets ought to consider this as well.

 

I find this to be typical of people looking for something everybody else can't see when everybody sees the problem.  

Buffalo didn't settle?  Fine we should fire Ken Dorsey too

You think Miami "adjusted?"  Maybe check the drive charts.  First drive D was fine.  2nd drive they started on the Jets 1.  Nice.  Down 7-0 the game was effectively over.  Jets O strings together a monster 16 yard drive and the Dolphins start from the Jets 40, drive 20 yards for a FG.  Down 10-0 the game is effectively over.    Jets go 3 and out travel -11 yards.  Dolphins held to -9 yards and punt.  Revitalized by the stop the Jets go 3 and out and -3 yards.  Waddle catches the 60 yarder and down 17-0 the game is effectively over. 

I get that it is the coaches job to keep these guys up, but if you think you can play football when you are completely demoralized you are nuts.  The Dolphins had 10 drives.   Five started on the wrong side of the field.  Two of the others started on the 40.  One of the other three was the last drive of the game.   You expect them to hold up after they give up the TD on 3rd down when the O didn't have a drive that took longer than 2:30 until the end of the third.  That ended in a pick, the following drive was 3 minutes and ended in a fumble.   They had one drive in the first half that wen over 10 yards (16! woo hoo!) and 4 that went for negative yard.  LET'S BLAME THE D!!!!  Connor Hughes wife is as much at fault for that beat down as Jeff Ulbrich.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get that it is the coaches job to keep these guys up, but if you think you can play football when you are completely demoralized you are nuts.  The Dolphins had 10 drives.   Five started on the wrong side of the field.  Two of the others started on the 40.  One of the other three was the last drive of the game.   You expect them to hold up after they give up the TD on 3rd down when the O didn't have a drive that took longer than 2:30 until the end of the third.  That ended in a pick, the following drive was 3 minutes and ended in a fumble.   They had one drive in the first half that wen over 10 yards (16! woo hoo!) and 4 that went for negative yard.  LET'S BLAME THE D!!!!  Connor Hughes wife is as much at fault for that beat down as Jeff Ulbrich.

How have the Browns been able to win under similar circumstances?

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

How have the Browns been able to win under similar circumstances?

What the **** are you even talking about?  How many games have the Browns put up 103 yards of offense, fumbled twice and thrown two picks?  Let me save you the trouble - zero.  Their lowest offensive output of the year was 166 against Baltimore with 3 turnovers.  Newsflash, they lost 28-3.  I'm surprised that they didn't fire Jim Schwartz on the spot!  They did not have a single other offensive output that wasn't at least 50 yards more than double what we put out on Sunday.  

[TuscanyTile2]

18 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What the **** are you even talking about?  How many games have the Browns put up 103 yards of offense, fumbled twice and thrown two picks?  Let me save you the trouble - zero.  Their lowest offensive output of the year was 166 against Baltimore with 3 turnovers.  Newsflash, they lost 28-3.  I'm surprised that they didn't fire Jim Schwartz on the spot!  They did not have a single other offensive output that wasn't at least 50 yards more than double what we put out on Sunday.  

The Browns average 225.9 YDS/G passing as opposed to 201.8 for the Jets but, admittedly, they do score a lot more points (309 to 201). 

The Steelers would be a better comparison.  They've only scored 223 points this season (to the Jets 201) but are 7-7.  

Regardless, though, Ulbrich still could've put Sauce on Waddle.  And it's also true that the Dolphins' adjusted to our defense far better than we did to their offense as compared to the game 2 weeks prior.  And that was with a banged-up OL and without their superstar WR.  And in a true must-win game.

[#27TheDominator]

27 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The Browns average 225.9 YDS/G passing as opposed to 201.8 for the Jets but, admittedly, they do score a lot more points (309 to 201). 

The Steelers would be a better comparison.  They've only scored 223 points this season (to the Jets 201) but are 7-7.  

Regardless, though, Ulbrich still could've put Sauce on Waddle.  And it's also true that the Dolphins' adjusted to our defense far better than we did to their offense as compared to the game 2 weeks prior.  And that was with a banged-up OL and without their superstar WR.  And in a true must-win game.

I don't really understand what you are getting at.  The Browns have had ZERO games where their offense performed as badly as ours on Sunday.  I don't think you are grasping that we had 100 total yards and spit the ball up four times.  Do you know how many games the Steelers had under 200 yards?  No need to guess it is zero.  The 2023 Steelers, like the Browns, have never had to overcome such a pitiful showing. You are putting up averages that are 10% better than the Jets average without considering that this game was 50% worse than our previous worst pathetic offensive showing.

You want to harp on Sauce not being on Waddle, knock yourself out.  Reed is having a great year.  This isn't exactly like putting  Drew Coleman on Roddy White while Revis covers Marty Booker.  But hey!  Blame the defense!  Blame Connor Hughes wife! Maybe we should blame @freestaters mom.  Her saying seems homey and true, but it sound0s suspiciously like something Saleh might wear on his t-shirt!

Stop looking for answers to issues that aren't there.  It's the offense.  It's clear to anybody with eyes.

[Joe W. Namath]

1 week ago this board had Ulbrich getting head coaching offers.  Now he sucks.

We win on Sunday and it will be back to “vote all of our players into the pro bowl” again.

[Ron Rico]

I think Ulbrich's 3 biggest problems are the same biggest problems all the us have: Salad, JD and Woody. This thread doesn't exist if Salad isn't the HC. 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't really understand what you are getting at.  The Browns have had ZERO games where their offense performed as badly as ours on Sunday.  I don't think you are grasping that we had 100 total yards and spit the ball up four times.  Do you know how many games the Steelers had under 200 yards?  No need to guess it is zero.  The 2023 Steelers, like the Browns, have never had to overcome such a pitiful showing. You are putting up averages that are 10% better than the Jets average without considering that this game was 50% worse than our previous worst pathetic offensive showing.

You want to harp on Sauce not being on Waddle, knock yourself out.  Reed is having a great year.  This isn't exactly like putting  Drew Coleman on Roddy White while Revis covers Marty Booker.  But hey!  Blame the defense!  Blame Connor Hughes wife! Maybe we should blame @freestaters mom.  Her saying seems homey and true, but it sound0s suspiciously like something Saleh might wear on his t-shirt!

Stop looking for answers to issues that aren't there.  It's the offense.  It's clear to anybody with eyes.

Apparently you missed this:

Quote

Regardless, though, Ulbrich still could've put Sauce on Waddle.  And it's also true that the Dolphins' adjusted to our defense far better than we did to their offense as compared to the game 2 weeks prior.  And that was with a banged-up OL and without their superstar WR.  And in a true must-win game.

And yes, we all know the offense is the problem.  But that doesn't mean Jeff Ulbrich gets a free pass.

[Ron Rico]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Apparently you missed this:

And yes, we all know the offense is the problem.  But that doesn't mean Jeff Ulbrich gets a free pass.

Salad is calling the shots on defense. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Ron Rico said:

Salad is calling the shots on defense. 

He certainly has the authority to override Ulbrich.  Not sure that he does though.  But Robert Salesman deserves to go too.

[#27TheDominator]

24 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Apparently you missed this:

And yes, we all know the offense is the problem.  But that doesn't mean Jeff Ulbrich gets a free pass.

Look, Max said to be nice, so I'm not going to say what I am thinking.  How do you claim that I "missed" something I directly commented on?  How do you repeat it without addressing my comment?  Ulbrich does get a free pass.  Do you know why?  He deserves one.  The Jets have given up 30 points four times this season.  In three of those games they turned the ball over 4 times.  In three of those games the offense did not top 160 yards.  Coincidence?  I think not. 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Look, Max said to be nice, so I'm not going to say what I am thinking.  How do you claim that I "missed" something I directly commented on?  How do you repeat it without addressing my comment?  Ulbrich does get a free pass.  Do you know why?  He deserves one.  The Jets have given up 30 points four times this season.  In three of those games they turned the ball over 4 times.  In three of those games the offense did not top 160 yards.  Coincidence?  I think not. 

Obviously neither of us have anything to do with the Jets' choice but I don't think Ulbrich deserves any free pass.  When the talent level stunk, our defense stunk (e.g. 54-13 against the Pats).  Now that the talent level is very good, so is our defense.  Does Ulbrich make us better?  I'm not so sure.  Sunday's game doesn't make me feel any better about the guy.  That's the larger point.  

[Ron Rico]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Obviously neither of us have anything to do with the Jets' choice but I don't think Ulbrich deserves any free pass.  

We both agree that Salad is NOT a competent HC. He is not qualified to be a HC. His in game decisions are embarrassing. But attacking Ulbrich is pointless. "he doesn't deserve a pass". OK. fire him. Now what? Salad is still here. 

Where are you going with this? 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Ron Rico said:

We both agree that Salad is NOT a competent HC. He is not qualified to be a HC. His in game decisions are embarrassing. But attacking Ulbrich is pointless. "he doesn't deserve a pass". OK. fire him. Now what? Salad is still here. 

Where are you going with this? 

I just pointing out that I think he gets more credit than he deserves.  And that he was part of the problem against the Dolphins.

[Ron Rico]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

I just pointing out that I think he gets more credit than he deserves.

Or maybe you are trying to deflect away from something else that's been bothering you? Not trying to be a dick, here. All I'm saying, from my perspective, starting a thread attacking Ulbrich at this point of a disaster of a season is kind of a reach. Like, hey, look, a squirrel!