Reality Bites

[Maxman]

by Tyson Rauch -- on the front page now.

Thanks Tyson!

http://www.jetnation.com/?p=740

[Sperm Edwards]

Good aricle, Tyson.

You & I disagree on Chad, but it's not a fact/false thing - it's very subjective. I think a lot of the "Chad sucks" stuff is we're waiting for

a) Chad to put together a good 16-game season, or even a stellar 12-game stretch like he had once 4 years ago.

Yet another OC is not letting Chad throw deep unless we're already down by 2 scores or more. At some point, you have to consider the common factor is Chad & his arm...or his head...or both.

c) He is eating up cap room that would easily cover the addition of a pro-bowl talent. (I don't blame Chad for this, but it is what it is).

Agree wholeheartedly on Nugent & I'm taking the under.

#99 is still an ass 20 years later. Who here is not surprised?

[faba]

Nice job Tyson

Mangini not having any confidence in Nugent is clear for all to see.

The Jets are progressing this year no matter from last year's disaster-- we all get our hopes up given the schedule-that is part of being a sports fan.

[Jet27]

I agree, that's being the eternal optimistic Jets fan.

As for Mr. 99, there wasn't a better pass rusher in the history of the NFL. Clearily the strongest and fastest I've seen. As for his attitude....that was a shame.

[serphnx]

What does it matter how hard working he is or what injuries he's overcome? His performance on the field by any objective standards simply has not been good. He's the 33rd ranked passer in the last 6 games in a league with only 32 teams. On the year, he is somewhere in the bottom 10.

Look, lots of people work hard in life, but how would you feel if some guy at work that always ****s up and forces the rest of your team to cover for him got paid more than you and got to keep his job no matter what, even though if you have even one bad day you can lose yours? Doesn't seem very fair does it? Your boss tells you the guy overcame cancer, and that he's working harder than everyone else, but how happy does that make you when you fail to get year end performance bonuses because that guy kept screwing up? Let's say there's a kid learning they brought in to replace the guy, but the kid isn't given the job because they keep telling you that keeping the guy there is their best chance to make the year end performance bonus. Do you really sit there and agree when you've watched him stink up the place for most of the year? Or would you rather at least give him a chance?

That's pretty much what the situation is with Chad now. Management and a few company outsiders have taken a liking to the guy, so they're ignoring reality. But how much longer until the workers mutiny? When Cotch's contract is up, do you really think he'll stick around?

[Scott Dierking]

A SOLID, and I mean SOLID football club is built in stages.

With teh work that needed to be required here, a quick fix was not in order.

The good news is that there are foundations of success to now build off of. The bulk of the O-line is being groomed, and with a couple of mid-range type pick-ups, can be a strength for this club for over a decade.

The rookie class really appears to be a contributing one. When was the last time we were able to say that?

Moree than anything, there seems to be a philosophy and direction that pervades every aspect of thios football organization. I can not stress ORGANIZATION more.

It seems the owner is in step with the GM, who is in step with teh coach and that the scouts are in step to teh type of talent they want to acquire/.

Who would have thunk of that before?

Some marvelous stepos are being taken this year. With teh cap bearing more dollars each year, and the frugality that the Jets demonstrated this past of-season, they can target a couple of their key guiys now and take next steps.

It really is all quite exciting. It will just take a little more patience on the fan base. Let it play out, before jumping teh gun on knee jerk decisions.

[Scott Dierking]

What does it matter how hard working he is or what injuries he's overcome? His performance on the field by any objective standards simply has not been good. He's the 33rd ranked passer in the last 6 games in a league with only 32 teams. On the year, he is somewhere in the bottom 10.

Look, lots of people work hard in life, but how would you feel if some guy at work that always ****s up and forces the rest of your team to cover for him got paid more than you and got to keep his job no matter what, even though if you have even one bad day you can lose yours? Doesn't seem very fair does it? Your boss tells you the guy overcame cancer, and that he's working harder than everyone else, but how happy does that make you when you fail to get year end performance bonuses because that guy kept screwing up? Let's say there's a kid learning they brought in to replace the guy, but the kid isn't given the job because they keep telling you that keeping the guy there is their best chance to make the year end performance bonus. Do you really sit there and agree when you've watched him stink up the place for most of the year? Or would you rather at least give him a chance?

That's pretty much what the situation is with Chad now. Management and a few company outsiders have taken a liking to the guy, so they're ignoring reality. But how much longer until the workers mutiny? When Cotch's contract is up, do you really think he'll stick around?

So you feel Mangini is covering for the guy?

So much for the good feeling era of jets football. If this is the case, we are officially in big trouble.

[Jet27]

Scott D...I am jets fan and an optimist...however I disagree with your overall assessment of the Organization.

The jets organization at best has been an island of misfit toys. Excpet for the bold move of Mr. Hess (rest his soul) when he brought in Parcells. The rest has been outright bad.

Bad moves, bad draft picks and bad scouting. Come on now lets be realistic.

I am not going to bash Chad or Mangini the rest of the week. I will give Chad a chance to prove me (and many Jets fans) wrong. In fact I won't say a word about Chad the rest of the way. As for Mangini, he is a kid that is learning and one day he will be a very effective HC.

We do have some bright spots on this team, the special teams and the defense. The running game will come around and it is tied to the offensive line meshing. Once the o-line comes around so will the running game.

But I need to say, we have been one of the most snake bit teams in the NFL, and the only way to get out of that is to win.....

[Scott Dierking]

Scott D...I am jets fan and an optimist...however I disagree with your overall assessment of the Organization.

The jets organization at best has been an island of misfit toys. Excpet for the bold move of Mr. Hess (rest his soul) when he brought in Parcells. The rest has been outright bad.

Bad moves, bad draft picks and bad scouting. Come on now lets be realistic.

I am not going to bash Chad or Mangini the rest of the week. I will give Chad a chance to prove me (and many Jets fans) wrong. In fact I won't say a word about Chad the rest of the way. As for Mangini, he is a kid that is learning and one day he will be a very effective HC.

We do have some bright spots on this team, the special teams and the defense. The running game will come around and it is tied to the offensive line meshing. Once the o-line comes around so will the running game.

But I need to say, we have been one of the most snake bit teams in the NFL, and the only way to get out of that is to win.....

Jet27-I am only judging the organization by its most recent incantation.

Let's face it, Woody was saddled with Bradway through a recommendation of Parcells. He was a neophyte and he accpeted the recommendation on good faith. Through that came Edwards.

With all of that, even Edwards and Bradway never seemed to be on teh same page. Pleyers did not fit schemes, and coaches did not seem to trust new players.

Through the Mangini Tannenbaum exercise, that table appears flipped. Players are drafted with input of the coach and they are used. Scouts seem to have the impetus of understanding what a "Jet" player is, and what to look for.

Totally different

[Jet27]

Scott D....ok I do agree with what you are saying...up to one point.

How can anyone justify $65million?? to Chad?? (I said I wasn't going to do any bashing but...).

That's my very point.

The only thing I see is what comes through the airways on sunday, and when I sit in Giants Stadium.

Most of it what I see is based on the past issues with the team, Parcells was dealing with the remmants of his predessors. And he did a very very good job. Taking an under-achieving team to the Championship against the Bronco's with a 10 point lead going into the half only in (jet like fashion) to blow it in the end with 6 (count them six) turn-overs.

This is the snake bit team we ALL have seen time and time again. I just don't want the cycle to continue. I hope I am wrong but something tells me (having been a jets fan for a long time) I am not. Not until the Jets learn to be winners and expect to win every game. This includes the QB, HC, GM and entire organization.

[Scott Dierking]

Scott D....ok I do agree with what you are saying...up to one point.

How can anyone justify $65million?? to Chad?? (I said I wasn't going to do any bashing but...).

That's my very point.

The only thing I see is what comes through the airways on sunday, and when I sit in Giants Stadium.

Most of it what I see is based on the past issues with the team, Parcells was dealing with the remmants of his predessors. And he did a very very good job. Taking an under-achieving team to the Championship against the Bronco's with a 10 point lead going into the half only in (jet like fashion) to blow it in the end with 6 (count them six) turn-overs.

This is the snake bit team we ALL have seen time and time again. I just don't want the cycle to continue. I hope I am wrong but something tells me (having been a jets fan for a long time) I am not. Not until the Jets learn to be winners and expect to win every game. This includes the QB, HC, GM and entire organization.

Jet27-I could go on a whole diatribe about the Chad deal, whay it was done that way, what it ment to the organziation at the time, etc, but that would just be re-hashing. There is not much point to it, but there were certain reasons, and they were fairly sound as to the way it came down.

In the end, there were some unfortunate circumstances tied to it, but you know what they say about spilt milk and all.

I don't believe in jinxes, I don't beleive in being snake bit.

I believe in having in organization in stepo and in toe with each other. And the Jets have largely ignored that as a whole through their history. It was always keeping up with teh Giants or a new quick fixe. Never the roll your sleeves up and do it right mentality.

Early results are all that we have to judge on, but I like the early results. The ending, of course, has yet to be written. that is how it will be judged. Not in fits or spurts or starts.

[serphnx]

So you feel Mangini is covering for the guy?

So much for the good feeling era of jets football. If this is the case, we are officially in big trouble.

Partly that, but also scared of the new guy. Mangini is a rookie coach, so even though Chad will never be consistent against good teams, at least he's good enough to consistently beat the bad teams. As a rookie coach, he knows that for this year and next, he will not be expected to consistently beat bad teams and to be a Super Bowl contender. So right now, Chad is a safe pick to keep his job and build some credibility. It would give the Jets a better chance to win this year and next if Clemens actually pans out, however, the risk is that he isn't even as good as Pennington, in which case Mangini would look pretty bad. For my analogy above, it could be that the boss looks at the overall profit margins, sees that they're at least positive, and decides that it's not worth the risk. At some point though, the expectations change, and then he'd be forced to take the risk. You just hope he doesn't wait too long, and the risk pays off.

[Jet27]

Scott D...I like what your saying.

Like I said I will not rush to judgement, but there are lots and lots of fans out there that are paying good money to see this team. Just can't wait for the week prior to a Super bowl when the Jets are in it....

[Scott Dierking]

Partly that, but also scared of the new guy. Mangini is a rookie coach, so even though Chad will never be consistent against good teams, at least he's good enough to consistently beat the bad teams. As a rookie coach, he knows that for this year and next, he will not be expected to consistently beat bad teams and to be a Super Bowl contender. So right now, Chad is a safe pick to keep his job and build some credibility. It would give the Jets a better chance to win this year and next if Clemens actually pans out, however, the risk is that he isn't even as good as Pennington, in which case Mangini would look pretty bad. For my analogy above, it could be that the boss looks at the overall profit margins, sees that they're at least positive, and decides that it's not worth the risk. At some point though, the expectations change, and then he'd be forced to take the risk. You just hope he doesn't wait too long, and the risk pays off.

If you are right with any of this speculation, we are in big trouble.

I hope you are wrong.

[Scott Dierking]

Scott D...I like what your saying.

Like I said I will not rush to judgement, but there are lots and lots of fans out there that are paying good money to see this team. Just can't wait for the week prior to a Super bowl when the Jets are in it....

I hear ya, we all have been pretty patient.

[joewilly]

Partly that, but also scared of the new guy. Mangini is a rookie coach, so even though Chad will never be consistent against good teams, at least he's good enough to consistently beat the bad teams. As a rookie coach, he knows that for this year and next, he will not be expected to consistently beat bad teams and to be a Super Bowl contender. So right now, Chad is a safe pick to keep his job and build some credibility. It would give the Jets a better chance to win this year and next if Clemens actually pans out, however, the risk is that he isn't even as good as Pennington, in which case Mangini would look pretty bad. For my analogy above, it could be that the boss looks at the overall profit margins, sees that they're at least positive, and decides that it's not worth the risk. At some point though, the expectations change, and then he'd be forced to take the risk. You just hope he doesn't wait too long, and the risk pays off.

I don't buy into this mangini playing it safe theory. I think he feels chad gives us the best chance to win each sunday. look at every other position on the field. He does not play favorites. I like what he's doing so far and yes chad is not an elite armed q'back in the league. I trust eric to play clemons or ramsey when he feels the time is right

[serphnx]

If you are right with any of this speculation, we are in big trouble.

I hope you are wrong.

I hope I am wrong too.

I don't buy into this mangini playing it safe theory. I think he feels chad gives us the best chance to win each sunday. look at every other position on the field. He does not play favorites. I like what he's doing so far and yes chad is not an elite armed q'back in the league. I trust eric to play clemons or ramsey when he feels the time is right

QB is different. You can't just make a QB change and then evaluate, you need consistency. Once you take one QB out, the offense needs to adjust to the new QB, and you can't go back to the old one. The playbook and everything else changes. Frankly it doesn't matter who runs, because they can all fill that function, so RB by committee works. Likewise, you can plug in any one spot on the defense interchangeably, because it won't change the entire defense radically, and you can go back to the old starter worst case scenario. When you start getting to WRs and QBs, that is no longer the case. The timing and chemistry really matter. Even if Clemens came in now, he would need at least 2-3 games just to get some familiarity, so you wouldn't even see what he's capable of until his 4th or 5th start. That is why you either start Clemens now or you let Pennington finish out the season. Rivers and Tom Brady were protected heavily when they first started, and they weren't allowed to really cut loose until about a month into their tenures. Why would you stack the deck against Clemens otherwise?

[#27TheDominator]

I hope I am wrong too.

QB is different. You can't just make a QB change and then evaluate, you need consistency. Once you take one QB out, the offense needs to adjust to the new QB, and you can't go back to the old one. The playbook and everything else changes. Frankly it doesn't matter who runs, because they can all fill that function, so RB by committee works. Likewise, you can plug in any one spot on the defense interchangeably, because it won't change the entire defense radically, and you can go back to the old starter worst case scenario. When you start getting to WRs and QBs, that is no longer the case. The timing and chemistry really matter. Even if Clemens came in now, he would need at least 2-3 games just to get some familiarity, so you wouldn't even see what he's capable of until his 4th or 5th start. That is why you either start Clemens now or you let Pennington finish out the season. Rivers and Tom Brady were protected heavily when they first started, and they weren't allowed to really cut loose until about a month into their tenures. Why would you stack the deck against Clemens otherwise?

You make some good points, but I don't think you can necessarily make any real evaluation of a rookie qb. If he looks great, then you know you are usually okay, but sometimes they look like total garbage and turn out to be fine a year or two down the line.

[Boozer76]

I am so sick of the excuses for Chad. It's not about the fact that he came back from 2 shoulder injuries. that's a nice story, but just being able to show up on the field, while very impressive after 2 injuries, is not enough!! Why are people content with a guy who is just able to get on the field? Why are we berating fans who are demanding more from the guy? This is not an issue of whether or not Clemens is ready, Ramsey sucks, or Jeff George failed with a cannon arm. It has nothing to do with any of that. It is simply down to the fact that with the exception of 2002, Chad has been an average to very poor QB!! He has been living off his 2002 reputation now for 4 years! Maybe Clemes isn't ready. Maybe Clemens isn't even the answer. But the bottom line is we cannot sit here and be content with someone who must manufacture 15-20 play drives in order to score a TD. There are far too many times in the NFL where you need to move the ball quickly and in chunks. We blamed Hackett for how many years? We hated heimerdinger, and now Schott is being compared to Hackett by Chadinettes. When do people wake up and realize it isn't the friggin chef cooking up the plays, it's the main ingredient that stinks (blatant Parcells thieving quote).

Every aspect of this team has improved so far during this season with the exception of Pennington. The D is playing better, the OL is playing better, SpT's are playing better. Hell, even DRob is starting to look like he might belong out there. Pennington during this same stretch has continually and drastically declined. Not only has his physical ability to make the big throw never been there, but now his accuracy has also deteriorated. On top of that, his uncanny smarts and game management skills have dropped dramatically. i never realized a QB's brain was in his shoulder.

Some want to say that we never expected to be 5-5 at this point. You're right, I am as shocked as anyone else here. But is that reason to give Chad's horrid performance a pass? Because now that we do sit here at 5-5, you realize that if our QB was onboard and playing at the level of his teammates, we'd be 7-3 right now. Hands down!! Why do fans continually lower the bar on this team? Why is it that the simple fact a nice guy can just walk on the field after injury and we become content with him not playing well? Guess what, Chad's armstrength is as good as it ever was!! In some respects it looks even stronger than ever. The fact is, people are still grasping to that magic of 2002. But you have to realize that magic is not a reality on the football field. "Magic" tends to happen when you replace an "air it out rocket armed QB" with a dink and dunk type guy. When D's are looking at film and gameplans that were catered to Vinny, they tend to be caught off guard by a guy who takes all the underneath stuff while the safeties are back covering the deep guys. From the moment opposing teams started to figure out that you don't need a safety deep against Pennington and you can crowd the line, he has never had that "magic" since. OAK exposed him in 2002, and opposing teams learned the formula to beat him. Fans still think it was all "magic".

[Scott Dierking]

I am so sick of the excuses for Chad. It's not about the fact that he came back from 2 shoulder injuries. that's a nice story, but just being able to show up on the field, while very impressive after 2 injuries, is not enough!! Why are people content with a guy who is just able to get on the field? Why are we berating fans who are demanding more from the guy? This is not an issue of whether or not Clemens is ready, Ramsey sucks, or Jeff George failed with a cannon arm. It has nothing to do with any of that. It is simply down to the fact that with the exception of 2002, Chad has been an average to very poor QB!! He has been living off his 2002 reputation now for 4 years! Maybe Clemes isn't ready. Maybe Clemens isn't even the answer. But the bottom line is we cannot sit here and be content with someone who must manufacture 15-20 play drives in order to score a TD. There are far too many times in the NFL where you need to move the ball quickly and in chunks. We blamed Hackett for how many years? We hated heimerdinger, and now Schott is being compared to Hackett by Chadinettes. When do people wake up and realize it isn't the friggin chef cooking up the plays, it's the main ingredient that stinks (blatant Parcells thieving quote).

Every aspect of this team has improved so far during this season with the exception of Pennington. The D is playing better, the OL is playing better, SpT's are playing better. Hell, even DRob is starting to look like he might belong out there. Pennington during this same stretch has continually and drastically declined. Not only has his physical ability to make the big throw never been there, but now his accuracy has also deteriorated. On top of that, his uncanny smarts and game management skills have dropped dramatically. i never realized a QB's brain was in his shoulder.

Some want to say that we never expected to be 5-5 at this point. You're right, I am as shocked as anyone else here. But is that reason to give Chad's horrid performance a pass? Because now that we do sit here at 5-5, you realize that if our QB was onboard and playing at the level of his teammates, we'd be 7-3 right now. Hands down!! Why do fans continually lower the bar on this team? Why is it that the simple fact a nice guy can just walk on the field after injury and we become content with him not playing well? Guess what, Chad's armstrength is as good as it ever was!! In some respects it looks even stronger than ever. The fact is, people are still grasping to that magic of 2002. But you have to realize that magic is not a reality on the football field. "Magic" tends to happen when you replace an "air it out rocket armed QB" with a dink and dunk type guy. When D's are looking at film and gameplans that were catered to Vinny, they tend to be caught off guard by a guy who takes all the underneath stuff while the safeties are back covering the deep guys. From the moment opposing teams started to figure out that you don't need a safety deep against Pennington and you can crowd the line, he has never had that "magic" since. OAK exposed him in 2002, and opposing teams learned the formula to beat him. Fans still think it was all "magic".

Exactly who and what are you responding to here?

I think you have the wrong thread.

[Boozer76]

Exactly who and what are you responding to here?

I think you have the wrong thread.

This part of Tyson's story:

Side Notes: 1) So what now Chad sucks? This guy has worked his tail off and rehabbed like crazy and to me it is a miracle he is even playing for the Jets this year. I think his arm/shoulder could be tiring out a bit but come on people this guy is a good quarterback.

Every quarterback in the NFL is going to have his ups and downs and that is just reality. I think for Chad to play a full season this year is a major accomplishment and then with conditioning and a healthy off season he can come back next year stronger and better than ever. Now I will say once the Jets hit 7 losses I would not mind seeing Clemens play a bit but I think all of the Jets short-term success is going to be hinged to Chad Pennington.

[Scott Dierking]

This part of Tyson's story:

My apologies, I did not see the connection.