LionelRichie Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 this was herm's claim to fame. for all his shortcomings with gameplanning, in-game adjustments, clock mgmt, etc... we always heard about his ability to motivate. it seems to me that mangini - while he doesn't deliver the preaching fire and brimstone speeches is more a motivator than herm ever was. mangini has his "penalty" laps, his boxing movies, and his tapes messages from ex-boxers and trainers. these all sound like motivational exercises to me. so where exactly did herm get the "master motivater" title from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.I.MikeBleedsGreen Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 this was herm's claim to fame. for all his shortcomings with gameplanning, in-game adjustments, clock mgmt, etc... we always heard about his ability to motivate. it seems to me that mangini - while he doesn't deliver the preaching fire and brimstone speeches is more a motivator than herm ever was. mangini has his "penalty" laps, his boxing movies, and his tapes messages from ex-boxers and trainers. these all sound like motivational exercises to me. so where exactly did herm get the "master motivater" title from? I believe they called him the "master baiter" if I can remeber correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 so where exactly did herm get the "master motivater" title from? In the early stages of creating Herm's cult of personality, Cannizarro and the other propagandists needed to come up with some untangible, arbitrary quality to attribute to Herm. It took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 In the early stages of creating Herm's cult of personality, Cannizarro and the other propagandists needed to come up with some untangible, arbitrary quality to attribute to Herm. It took. So basically Herm brought nothing to the table and just talked out of his ass and hoped people would buy it, which they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 So basically Herm brought nothing to the table and just talked out of his ass and hoped people would buy it, which they did. You nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 You nailed it. Hey, I was one of the schmucks that bought it so I should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Here's the real difference. Herm didn't bother to pay attention to the details, or coach the players into becoming smart and knowing what they should do in each situation. Instead he goes on building up their emotion with pep talks and tries to get them to play on emotion alone. He'll fire them up in the beginning, especially when he has an already talented team. But eventually when things start to go wrong the players get tired of hearing it. They want to see a solid gameplan in place. They also want to see players being held accountable for poor play on the field, not just a undaunted loyalty to an aging veteran. Mangini, on the other hand, puts an extreme emphasis on the knowledge of the designed play, the knowledge of the opponent, and the knowledge of what your teammates responsibility is as well. The players are coached to understand the big picture of everything by properly putting together the small pieces that make up the big picture. Then, after empowering them with the knowledge and skill through meticulous and grueling preparation, he tells them that they have the power to do their job effectively to win games. And most importantly he's not lying to them. Anyone who doesn't put the work in to get the understanding down pat is gone before they know it, including veterans. Mangini actually coaches the players to become effective. Herm tells them they're great, gives them a slap on the ass, and sends them out on the field shouting "go get em champ!!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 When Herm came in noone knew he was full of crap. He talked like he knew what he was doing. He came from a very good defensive team in TB and he brought in a cover 2 which had been successful. Who knew he didn't know the first thing about game planning and clock management, he had only been a position coach before. The first year or two we blamed Bradway for not bringing in the right coordinators or personel, but when Herm started bringing in his own coordinators, and a clock management genius to stand behind him and he still seemed clueless we began to catch on. He is a horrible coach but a pretty good con man. Its reasonable it took most Jet fans to figure out what a complete idiot he was. It takes less time to figure out that someone is competent, like Mangini, then it does to figure out he is incompetent because we all wanted the Jets to do well and we gave him the benefit of the doubt. KC has the benefit of our experience so they will figure it out much sooner, like Larry Johnson seems to have, just like we had Philly's experience to peg Richie K pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzock Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I really like magini hes been great and i hope this offseason my raiders can get a coach like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Not with Al Davis they won't. You have to wait til he croaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzock Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Not with Al Davis they won't. You have to wait til he croaks. he fired art once and will do it again and hopefully he'll get a jon gruden type again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 He fired shanahan, he got rid of gruden, noone wants to work for him anymore except a guy with no other shot at a job like Shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 he fired art once and will do it again and hopefully he'll get a jon gruden type again. He might be able to get the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 He is a horrible coach but a pretty good con man. Disagree. Herm is a horrible coach and a DAMN GOOD con man. Herm could sell the Brooklyn Bridge, twice on the same day. I hated that guys guts pretty much from the start, but I wavered along the way. I'd hear one of his rah rah speeches on ESPN at the start of a season, and I'd think "this time it's gonna be different" but SSDD. Its reasonable it took most Jet fans to figure out what a complete idiot he was. It takes less time to figure out that someone is competent, like Mangini, then it does to figure out he is incompetent because we all wanted the Jets to do well and we gave him the benefit of the doubt. Exactly. We could all clearly see the smoke coming from underneath the hood, but some guys chose to check the air in the tires, instead. I think deep down inside, alot of people couldn't accept that once they comitted and were buying into Herm's BS, they didn't want to admit to themselves that he was a fraud. Con Artists affect their victims that way. KC has the benefit of our experience so they will figure it out much sooner, like Larry Johnson seems to have, just like we had Philly's experience to peg Richie K pretty quickly Another great point. Doc are you a psychoanalyst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzock Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 He fired shanahan, he got rid of gruden, noone wants to work for him anymore except a guy with no other shot at a job like Shell. Not true at all yes he fired those guys but no one is saying he cant get another good young coach especially when jobs are limited to 32 Head coach posistions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzock Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 He might be able to get the real thing. Id take him back in a quickness but I think the raiders will look in another direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Not true at all yes he fired those guys but no one is saying he cant get another good young coach especially when jobs are limited to 32 Head coach posistions. Hey Riz, can you imagine if Herm didn't orchestrate his way out of this job, leaving the door open for Mangini's hiring? He'd be available, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzock Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Hey Riz, can you imagine if Herm didn't orchestrate his way out of this job, leaving the door open for Mangini's hiring? He'd be available, right now. Id take him in a heatbeat. Rob ryan the ex Pats LB coach is good friends with mangini and i think that would have worked out well. Evrything happens for a reason and I hope the raiders get there own mangini this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Doc are you a psychoanalyst? No, an anesthesiologist, I get to give alot of truth serum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 No, an anesthesiologist, I get to give alot of truth serum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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