German Shepherds

[MTJ06]

Chad can throw the ball deep, just not with ZIP... if the sceanario your presenting was the case this season we would have seen him at least lob it up there every 1st down to Coles who would smoke past the corner with no safety deep... Your making it sound to simple, also a lot of the time when a safety creep up its merely a fake blitz.

I can remember a lot of times where Chad had nowhere to go with the ball this year becuase they were playing double cover on both sides of the field, NOBODY feared our run game and it hurt us more than the lack of Chad being able to put Zip on a 40 yard pass.

With any QB, whether it is Chad or Brady... a running game is KEY to being effective...

Chad would have been better with a true #1 RB.

Are you sure? Check the stats. The Jets were 20th in rushing yards, barely behind the Saints, Colts, and Rams who were ranked 17, 18, and 19 yet their qbs had no problem throwing the ball all over the field.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-RUSHING/2006/regular

[Barton]

Problem is they didn't stack 8 in the box on first and second down like you said. But even if they did it is an indication of how weak the whole offense is not the QB.

Ok, you think they didnt (i disagree), but lets say they did stack 8 in the box. That, and that only is an indication of how weak THE QUARTERBACK IS, and nothing else. Surely, you are not saying our WRs are week, because our 1-2 punch was as good as anybodys in the NFL, and better than any other playoff team, save the Colts. Its simple. You dont stack 8 in the box against an offense with our WRs unless you do not fear the QB beating you deep, thats football 101. It certainly wasnt the greatness of our running backs this year that caused defenses to stack 8 in the box.

Barton, Who had the worst wapons on offense in the 2007 playoffs?

Jets WRs are better than any other group, save indy. The Jets Oline is better than the cowboys, and on par with lines like the bears, saints and patriots, and chiefs (due to their horrible tackles).

The Jets backs were by far the worst, as was the Jets QB situation only rivaled in suckiness by the bears and giants, 1 of which was an 8-8 team.

Eagles, Chiefs, Cowboys all have better QBs. Not to mention, the Pats, Saints, Colts, Seahawks and Chargers unquestionably have much better QBs.

Chad would be better with a back like Turner, but still not good enough. What did he do with the NFLs leading rusher in 2004? A whopping 3 points in the AFC divisional playoff game - you are awesome, Chad.

[JetCane]

The Jets were 20th in rushing yards, barely behind the Saints, Colts, and Rams

Those three teams ALL had more yards rushing on LESS carries, which means they definitely ran the ball better than the Jets.

One of them has Manning, another has a guy who only had a career/all pro season, and the third team didnt even sniff the playoffs.

[MTJ06]

Those three teams ALL had more yards rushing on LESS carries, which means they definitely ran the ball better than the Jets.

One of them has Manning, another has a guy who only had a career/all pro season, and the third team didnt even sniff the playoffs.

Yeah they had less carries. Anywhere from 1-4 a game. Nothing to talk about. I agree with you on manning, but if you look at Brees and Bulger both of them have progressed as their career has gone forward while chad has regressed since 2002.

[JetCane]

I know what you're saying, but here's another fact about that stat you put up:

all three of those teams had a 1000 yard rusher, including Jackson, who had 1500

There was no real threat of a heavy hitting running game for the Jets, which is what we are talking about to keep the defense honest.

btw Bears win in OT

[RSJ]

Ok, you think they didnt (i disagree), but lets say they did stack 8 in the box. That, and that only is an indication of how weak THE QUARTERBACK IS, and nothing else. Surely, you are not saying our WRs are week, because our 1-2 punch was as good as anybodys in the NFL, and better than any other playoff team, save the Colts. Its simple. You dont stack 8 in the box against an offense with our WRs unless you do not fear the QB beating you deep, thats football 101. It certainly wasnt the greatness of our running backs this year that caused defenses to stack 8 in the box.

Jets WRs are better than any other group, save indy. The Jets Oline is better than the cowboys, and on par with lines like the bears, saints and patriots, and chiefs (due to their horrible tackles).

The Jets backs were by far the worst, as was the Jets QB situation only rivaled in suckiness by the bears and giants, 1 of which was an 8-8 team.

Eagles, Chiefs, Cowboys all have better QBs. Not to mention, the Pats, Saints, Colts, Seahawks and Chargers unquestionably have much better QBs.

Chad would be better with a back like Turner, but still not good enough. What did he do with the NFLs leading rusher in 2004? A whopping 3 points in the AFC divisional playoff game - you are awesome, Chad.

Like was said earlier the coaching staff will choose the starter next year and I'm confident it will be Chad. But if it is not Chad I will be the same Jets fan either way. I personally think the Jets WR's are a joke only matched by their RB's and TE. Cotchery is good in the Deion Branch mold. Coles is a tough little WR - but neither scare any defense. Same goes for the TE.

[Barton]

Like was said earlier the coaching staff will choose the starter next year and I'm confident it will be Chad. But if it is not Chad I will be the same Jets fan either way. I personally think the Jets WR's are a joke only matched by their RB's and TE. Cotchery is good in the Deion Branch mold. Coles is a tough little WR - but neither scare any defense. Same goes for the TE.

You think the Jets WRs are a joke? Ok, wow.

Sounds like everybody in your Jets world is a joke, but Chad Pennington.

[Matt39]

Cotchery is a hell of a player. Im not sure what you're talking about.

[Barton]

wow, I still cant believe you just said the Jets WRs are a joke.

Combined, they had over 2000 yards. Yeah, they are a joke.

[RSJ]

You think the Jets WRs are a joke? Ok, wow.

Sounds like everybody in your Jets world is a joke, but Chad Pennington.

No I like the offensive line a lot, especially the rookies. As far as the skilled positions go Leon Washington is ofcourse a great change of pace back. Cothery is again a nice #2 WR. Nothing to write home about though. There is no Torry Holt, or Shaun Alexander in the group like you would have people beliving is the case. According to you we have Jerry Rice, and Roger Craig out there. The only thing holding us back is Browning Nagle at QB.

[MTJ06]

I know what you're saying, but here's another fact about that stat you put up:

all three of those teams had a 1000 yard rusher, including Jackson, who had 1500

There was no real threat of a heavy hitting running game for the Jets, which is what we are talking about to keep the defense honest.

btw Bears win in OT

Yeah and they all gave more of their carries to one runner, while we had a 3 headed attack.

Alot of people say we need to improve everything around Chad for him to play better. I think that Chad needs to play much better as well for us to be a better offensive team even if we dont make many offensive improvements.

I think our OL and Rbs will be better as key rooks will be in their 2nd year, and I like our current recieving group.

As far as the rest of our running game is concerned, who really knows?

Do we need to trade for or draft a stud?

Maybe we get someone unexpected that plays well. Travis Henry and Chester taylor did so this past season. How much did barlows injury bother him and can he be that type of guy?

Who knows the answers to those questions, only time will tell. The Chad discussion will go on throughout next season depending upon the play of the starting QB. If whoever the starter is plays well we wont be talking about that position, we will be analyzing something else.

[MTJ06]

No I like the offensive line a lot, especially the rookies. As far as the skilled positions go Leon Washington is ofcourse a great change of pace back. Cothery is again a nice #2 WR. Nothing to write home about though. There is no Torry Holt, or Shaun Alexander in the group like you would have people beliving is the case. According to you we have Jerry Rice, and Roger Craig out there. The only thing holding us back is Browning Nagle at QB.

Would Torry Holt be Torry Holt if he was on the Jets?

[RSJ]

Would Torry Holt be Torry Holt if he was on the Jets?

Torry Holt's career numbers are so much better than anyone on the Jets roster I think it is safe to say he would be an upgrade.

[The Troll]

Like was said earlier the coaching staff will choose the starter next year and I'm confident it will be Chad. But if it is not Chad I will be the same Jets fan either way. I personally think the Jets WR's are a joke only matched by their RB's and TE. Cotchery is good in the Deion Branch mold. Coles is a tough little WR - but neither scare any defense. Same goes for the TE.

I seriously can't believe you just posted that.

[RSJ]

I seriously can't believe you just posted that.

Take off your green glasses because thats the facts.

[JetCane]

we had a 3 headed attack

We had a rbbc because we didnt have a bona fide #1 rb.

And when we did....(channeling Savage)... I dont recall him coming up very big in playoff games.

[The Troll]

Take off your green glasses because thats the facts.

Take off your Chad splooged glasses and maybe I'll do the same.

To call our receivers a joke, wow. Just wow. I doubt you will find one person on this site or one NFL scout that would agree with that assessment.

[RSJ]

Take off your Chad splooged glasses and maybe I'll do the same.

To call our receivers a joke, wow. Just wow. I doubt you will find one person on this site or one NFL scout that would agree with that assessment.

Where do they rank in the NFL?

EDIT: Include the TE since that is a pass catching position.

[The Troll]

Where do they rank in the NFL?

As a tandem, in the top five.

[The Troll]

Where do they rank in the NFL?

EDIT: Include the TE since that is a pass catching position.

Why would I include the TE when you weren't even including the tight end in the post that sparked this debate?

Like was said earlier the coaching staff will choose the starter next year and I'm confident it will be Chad. But if it is not Chad I will be the same Jets fan either way. I personally think the Jets WR's are a joke only matched by their RB's and TE. Cotchery is good in the Deion Branch mold. Coles is a tough little WR - but neither scare any defense. Same goes for the TE.

[RSJ]

As a tandem, in the top five.

Indy

Bengals

Steelers

Rams

Seattle

Saints

Dallas

Cardinals

Panthers

And others all have better tandems. This doesn't include teams that have a better WR than any of the Jets guys.

[pjam76]

The Jets WR are not ever going to be HOF.. But they put up some good numbers and made some great plays over the season.. THey aren't HOF, but they aren't horrible either.

The problem is the Jets had no running game and like it or not, Chad P couldn't throw a 20 yard pass if needed and he threw way too many interceptions.

The Jets offense managed many games. Problem was, they don't have a defense that can win games. So either they need to build a shut down defense who is in the top 5 in the league or they need to build the top offense in the league.

You can't continue to rank near the bottom of the NFL in offense and defense and hope everything turns out ok. As proved in the Playoffs, the Jets weren't even close.

[JetCane]

Good post pjam. The defense certainly wasnt good enough this season to go deep in the playoffs.

I can recall only one playoff game in the past few years when a team gave up 30 or more points and won the game

[The Troll]

Indy

Bengals

Steelers

Rams

Seattle

Saints

Dallas

Cardinals

Panthers

And others all have better tandems. This doesn't include teams that have a better WR than any of the Jets guys.

The Steelers? Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes are better than Coles and Cotch? Damn, are you stretching with this one. Holmes didn't even start until he was forced into the lineup. And Cedric Wilson blows.

The Rams? Torry Holt is better, yes, but Isaac Bruce has seen his better days. I would take Coles and Cotchery over Holt and the ancient Bruce. As a TANDEM. Does not mean Holt is not the best of the bunch.

Seattle? Do you even watch that team? Their receivers drop a TON of passes. Nothing special there, particularly when you consider that DJ Hackett outperformed every single one of their over-paid wideouts down the stretch. If you are going to include Seattle, you should have thrown in the Redskins.

I would take our receivers over Dallas'. Theirs are old malcontents.

Panthers? Maybe, but Coles and Cotch are both better than Keyshawn.

The Saints? Coles is better than Colston, and Horn is old, injury-prone, and is no longer a top receiver.

The others, I'll give you. Bengals, Colts, Cardinals. They have fantastic receivers.

[pjam76]

Coltson is a rookie and is a big reason the Saints have won this year.

Coles might be better at this point, but by next season, Coltson will have passed him. I like Coles but it seems he gets injured an awful lot.. He might come back, but it's almost like he always plays hurt, and is always effected by that..

Coles and Cotchery were better than many of the other WRs in the league this year.. They aren't great, but they are good. Chad P needs to throw the ball quicker, turn the ball over less, and then not float every pass out there.

[RSJ]

The Steelers? Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes are better than Coles and Cotch? Damn, are you stretching with this one. Holmes didn't even start until he was forced into the lineup. And Cedric Wilson blows.

The Rams? Torry Holt is better, yes, but Isaac Bruce has seen his better days. I would take Coles and Cotchery over Holt and the ancient Bruce. As a TANDEM. Does not mean Holt is not the best of the bunch.

Seattle? Do you even watch that team? Their receivers drop a TON of passes. Nothing special there, particularly when you consider that DJ Hackett outperformed every single one of their over-paid wideouts down the stretch. If you are going to include Seattle, you should have thrown in the Redskins.

I would take our receivers over Dallas'. Theirs are old malcontents.

Panthers? Maybe, but Coles and Cotch are both better than Keyshawn.

The Saints? Coles is better than Colston, and Horn is old, injury-prone, and is no longer a top receiver.

The others, I'll give you. Bengals, Colts, Cardinals. They have fantastic receivers.

You can't say "Isaac Bruce has seen better days" Then turn around and deny the potential of Colsten and Holmes both of whom put up better rookie stats than either Jets guy. All of the teams I brought up have a posession guy and an explosive guy and put up comperable to better stats than the Jets WR's and I listed these teams in 5 minutes. There are still tons more out there.

[The Troll]

Coltson is a rookie and is a big reason the Saints have won this year.

Coles might be better at this point, but by next season, Coltson will have passed him. I like Coles but it seems he gets injured an awful lot.. He might come back, but it's almost like he always plays hurt, and is always effected by that..

Coles and Cotchery were better than many of the other WRs in the league this year.. They aren't great, but they are good. Chad P needs to throw the ball quicker, turn the ball over less, and then not float every pass out there.

Yes, but by the time Colston is better than Coles, Joe Horn will no longer be in the league. In fact, I would not be surprised if he hangs them up after this season.

[RSJ]

Yes, but by the time Colston is better than Coles, Joe Horn will no longer be in the league. In fact, I would not be surprised if he hangs them up after this season.

I was refering to Devery Henderson, not Joe Horn.

[MTJ06]

Torry Holt's career numbers are so much better than anyone on the Jets roster I think it is safe to say he would be an upgrade.

And what exactly is the reason for Tory Holt's career numbers? Having qbs that could get the ball to him. If he came here and ran perfect routes would Chad be able to get him the ball all over the field like the qbs he played with so far have? Absolutely not!!!

[RSJ]

And what exactly is the reason for Tory Holt's career numbers? Having qbs that could get the ball to him. If he came here and ran perfect routes would Chad be able to get him the ball all over the field like the qbs he played with so far have? Absolutely not!!!

Right because Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger make everyone forget about Dan Marino. Lets not forget Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[The Troll]

You can't say "Isaac Bruce has seen better days" Then turn around and deny the potential of Colsten and Holmes both of whom put up better rookie stats than either Jets guy. All of the teams I brought up have a posession guy and an explosive guy and put up comperable to better stats than the Jets WR's and I listed these teams in 5 minutes. There are still tons more out there.

The hell I can't. Both of our guys are in their prime. A handful of the teams you listed have geriatric receivers that will be in broadcast booths a couple years from now while Coles and Cotchery are still together.

They had better ROOKIE seasons than Coles and Cotch did? Wow. That means they will be better, obviously. I can't wait to watch Michael Clayton in the Pro Bowl a month from now.

You should have thrown Cleveland in there. They have a good young WR (Edwards) and an old receiver with past success (Jurevicious). Sounds to me like it's just up your alley.

[MTJ06]

Coltson is a rookie and is a big reason the Saints have won this year.

Coles might be better at this point, but by next season, Coltson will have passed him. I like Coles but it seems he gets injured an awful lot.. He might come back, but it's almost like he always plays hurt, and is always effected by that..

Coles and Cotchery were better than many of the other WRs in the league this year.. They aren't great, but they are good. Chad P needs to throw the ball quicker, turn the ball over less, and then not float every pass out there.

If they switched teams would you be saying that? Id rather have colston because he looks like a player and is younger, but what kind of numbers would he have put up for us?

On Chad I agree.

[The Troll]

Right because Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger make everyone forget about Dan Marino. Lets not forget Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Kurt Warner is a two-time NFL MVP. Marc Bulger is a two-time Pro Bowler. Both of them ****ing suck.

Torry Holt's numbers would be the same, if not better, if Chad Pennington was his QB. Because, Chad may not have two MVPs or two Pro Bowls, but damn it, he plays like he has two hearts. And he's really smart.

[RSJ]

The hell I can't. Both of our guys are in their prime. A handful of the teams you listed have geriatric receivers that will be in broadcast booths a couple years from now while Coles and Cotchery are still together.

They had better ROOKIE seasons than Coles and Cotch did? Wow. That means they will be better, obviously. I can't wait to watch Michael Clayton in the Pro Bowl a month from now.

You should have thrown Cleveland in there. They have a good young WR (Edwards) and an old receiver with past success (Jurevicious). Sounds to me like it's just up your alley.

Clayton did have a better year in 2004 as a rookie than Coles or Cotch had this year. So you may have a good point there. He is prolly better than either one too.

[RSJ]

Kurt Warner is a two-time NFL MVP. Marc Bulger is a two-time Pro Bowler. Both of them ****ing suck.

Torry Holt's numbers would be the same, if not better, if Chad Pennington was his QB. Because, Chad may not have two MVPs or two Pro Bowls, but damn it, he plays like he has two hearts. And he's really smart.

What has either one done without Holt, Faulk and Bruce?