Season Ticket talk.

[BwanaZulia]

Yeah, both teams have to do it under the guise of "paying for the stadium" just one team to do it would be a disaster.

It will not be cheap, but having two teams do it should lesson the blow.

BZ

[aec4]

That is the thing -- I wouldn't knock anyone who pays it. I just feel closer to the common fan (SINCE I AM ONE) and I know a lot of people financing or not wouldn't be able to do 5 grand.

If you have to finance the 5 grand, then you shouldn't buy the tickets... you have other things to worry about. I'm not saying that as a put down. Tickets are a LUXURY. If the price becomes too high, you just do not get them. It's not anyone's RIGHT to have season tickets.

[BwanaZulia]

Exactly.

Some Jets fans seem to think it is some sort of right that no prices may increase, or things cannot get more expensive. This is America and capitalism. You don't own the tickets, they are not yours, you only have the privilege of buying them every year. There are over 10,000 people waiting for that same privilege.

The good thing about PSLs is the ownership DOES go to you and you CAN own them.

BZ

[BaumerJet]

Exactly.

Some Jets fans seem to think it is some sort of right that no prices may increase, or things cannot get more expensive. This is America and capitalism. You don't own the tickets, they are not yours, you only have the privilege of buying them every year. There are over 10,000 people waiting for that same privilege.

The good thing about PSLs is the ownership DOES go to you and you CAN own them.

BZ

And that has always been my point. Season Tickets in the last 7- 10 years. Ever since Enron/Reliant Stadium's PSL's quickly removed the regular 10 game middle class season ticket holder and replaced them with CORPORATIONS, who can use these tickets individually as business expenses to clients & staff.

Maybe the change over to HDTV in February 2009 wasn't such a bad thing at all - Especially with Goodell about to lower the boom on the TV contracts in 2011 - The big news in the Media world is that the NFL intends to go DIGITAL/Broadband with individual games via internet beginning in '12.

But that's the next change in the way we watch the game...

[Maxman]

If you have to finance the 5 grand, then you shouldn't buy the tickets... you have other things to worry about. I'm not saying that as a put down. Tickets are a LUXURY. If the price becomes too high, you just do not get them. It's not anyone's RIGHT to have season tickets.

I agree, tickets are a luxury. I have 4 seats and always planned on someday going to the games with all 3 of my kids as they got older. Right now I sell two seats and go with my oldest son. In 2 or 3 years I hoped to bring all of them with me to every game.

Tickets are a luxury -- no doubt. One that I won't pay $20,000 PSL for -- that much I know.

[Maxman]

Exactly.

Some Jets fans seem to think it is some sort of right that no prices may increase, or things cannot get more expensive. This is America and capitalism. You don't own the tickets, they are not yours, you only have the privilege of buying them every year. There are over 10,000 people waiting for that same privilege.

The good thing about PSLs is the ownership DOES go to you and you CAN own them.

BZ

A lot of people keep saying it is an investment, lol. Anyhow -- I thought the PSL gave you the right to buy seats for 30 years? I am 38 now, let's say they had them in 2 years when I was 40. I could buy seats from 40 - 70 and then what? My kids have to pay another fee to keep going? Who do they pay the fee to?

If it is truly an investment after 30 years I would get my money back. But I doubt that is the way it works.

[faba]

Me as a sports fan I never ever have thought of my going to games and buying tickets, going on the road , travel costs as an investment- it is pure love of sports and my teams.

[SeniorFlaJet]

A lot of people keep saying it is an investment, lol. Anyhow -- I thought the PSL gave you the right to buy seats for 30 years? I am 38 now, let's say they had them in 2 years when I was 40. I could buy seats from 40 - 70 and then what? My kids have to pay another fee to keep going? Who do they pay the fee to?

If it is truly an investment after 30 years I would get my money back. But I doubt that is the way it works.

Where did you get that 30 year figure from?

[Maxman]

Where did you get that 30 year figure from?

Baumer posted it earlier from an SI.com article:

The Cowboys began selling tickets to their new stadium in Arlington last week, and the prices floored some buyers. Lower-bowl seats will have one-time Personal Seat License (PSL) fees between $16,000 and $150,000, which will give each ticket-holder the right to purchase seats at the stadium for the next 30 years.

[BwanaZulia]

A lot of people keep saying it is an investment, lol. Anyhow -- I thought the PSL gave you the right to buy seats for 30 years? I am 38 now, let's say they had them in 2 years when I was 40. I could buy seats from 40 - 70 and then what? My kids have to pay another fee to keep going? Who do they pay the fee to?

If it is truly an investment after 30 years I would get my money back. But I doubt that is the way it works.

I won't know the deal until I get the paperwork. My guess though, is it is based on the life of the stadium, so yes if in 30 years they build another stadium, they hit you up again.

At that point, it was only a $166 a year per ticket investment.

BZ

[Maxman]

I won't know the deal until I get the paperwork. My guess though, is it is based on the life of the stadium, so yes if in 30 years they build another stadium, they hit you up again.

At that point, it was only a $166 a year per ticket investment.

BZ

These stadiums really need to last longer than 30 years.

But my real point is about the "investment" angle. Depending on your age, this isn't an investment at all. If it has a 30 year life and you plan on (Good Lord Willing) going to the games for 30 more years, this is 100% an additional expense.

Doesn't change much. Just wanted to bury that whole "investment" thing once and for all! The investment point of view was like Jason. Every time I think it is dead for good they make another movie about it.

[flgreen]

Baumer posted it earlier from an SI.com article:

If those #'s are true, and I hope they are not, the NFL just shot itself in the foot and will be playing before empty seats in 5-10 years

[johnny green balls]

stubhub.com looking better all the time.

[SeniorFlaJet]

These stadiums really need to last longer than 30 years.

But my real point is about the "investment" angle. Depending on your age, this isn't an investment at all. If it has a 30 year life and you plan on (Good Lord Willing) going to the games for 30 more years, this is 100% an additional expense.

Doesn't change much. Just wanted to bury that whole "investment" thing once and for all! The investment point of view was like Jason. Every time I think it is dead for good they make another movie about it.

Max, I don't think the 30 year life has anything to do with the life of the stadium.

Its just another ploy to extract money down the line. Time shares sometime

work that way. You buy them but in the small print it might have a life span of

20 years and then you have to give them back to the Corp. What they are saying

is that they don't want a kid to buy a seat when he's 20 and live to 90 and still

keep that seat. They would be losing money on it.

As far as the investment angle is concerned you are looking down the road in

the ideal situation. Whose to say that 10-15 years down the road your kids are

involved in something else in another state or have no desire to go to the games.

If it as rumored you can sell your licenses for what the market will bear whose

to say if you sold two of the seats that you could not reap what the 4 seats

originally cost you?

[BwanaZulia]

These stadiums really need to last longer than 30 years.

But my real point is about the "investment" angle. Depending on your age, this isn't an investment at all. If it has a 30 year life and you plan on (Good Lord Willing) going to the games for 30 more years, this is 100% an additional expense.

Doesn't change much. Just wanted to bury that whole "investment" thing once and for all! The investment point of view was like Jason. Every time I think it is dead for good they make another movie about it.

Well, to the point that you can buy it now and sell it later for a higher price, it is an investment.

Some investments don't last forever or need replenishing.

Say you spent $20,000 in 2010 but could sell it for $40,000 in 2020. Is that an investment? Yes it is.

Stadiums have an average life span of about 30 years and this one could last longer. It could last 40-50 years. At that point your $20,000 could be worth $80,000.

Again, it may not be the return on your money, but it is also not like buying something that has no future value.

"An asset or item that is purchased with the hope it will generate income or appreciate in the future."

BZ

[Gainzo]

Well, to the point that you can buy it now and sell it later for a higher price, it is an investment.

Some investments don't last forever or need replenishing.

Say you spent $20,000 in 2010 but could sell it for $40,000 in 2020. Is that an investment? Yes it is.

Stadiums have an average life span of about 30 years and this one could last longer. It could last 40-50 years. At that point your $20,000 could be worth $80,000.

Again, it may not be the return on your money, but it is also not like buying something that has no future value.

"An asset or item that is purchased with the hope it will generate income or appreciate in the future."

BZ

It's like buying shares in a Company as there is risk involved. You are correct on that point. The key to all of this is the language laid out in the contract.

The first link outlines what has gone on in Oakland and the second is the transfer agreement that the Ravens have (note the restrictions)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20050807/ai_n15818071

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/uploads/files/KADMIEBODICJ/PSL%20TRANSFER%20FORM%202006.pdf

[joebabyny]

One thing I am TERRIBLE at is "monetizing". Check out the attached image. .01 for the day baby. We are in business now, lol. Google got mad at JetNation and made us a Page Rank 0. After that any hopes of having them pay us money were quickly squashed!

This mornings earning report is in. Gonna go buy some google stock once things pick up.

http://jetnation.com/graphics/misc/google.jpg

ouch, a page rank of 0, that sucks. Do you have any idea why they dropped you to zero?

Maybe you should start a campaign to get posters here on board with creating links back to jetnation, I would think your biggest problem is your inbound links, i doubt anyone has done much to get some. Maybe it could be as simple as asking people to post the link in their sigs when they post elsewhere, or mention it in their own blogs and put a link in their blogrolls? Maybe working your blog component and using feedburner or whatever to get it out there. Lots of different things you can do to get links out there. Not monetizing is just giving away free money. Another idea is to maybe go on a webmaster board and solicit help, with the promise of a % of your adsense proceeds for a chief seo officer or whatever.

[Gainzo]

As a season ticket holder for an NFL team I have seen two or maybe three people in this tread trying to justify PSL's and the hike of season ticket prices.

If you guys can afford the prices good for you. Just don't make fun of us who have had enough of this stuff.

We deserve the right to bitch about this stuff. Max, 4H, Baumer, etc deserve that.

[Maxman]

Well, to the point that you can buy it now and sell it later for a higher price, it is an investment.

Some investments don't last forever or need replenishing.

Say you spent $20,000 in 2010 but could sell it for $40,000 in 2020. Is that an investment? Yes it is.

Stadiums have an average life span of about 30 years and this one could last longer. It could last 40-50 years. At that point your $20,000 could be worth $80,000.

Again, it may not be the return on your money, but it is also not like buying something that has no future value.

"An asset or item that is purchased with the hope it will generate income or appreciate in the future."

BZ

I think you are missing my point. Not so much about the stadium life. If they are capping this at 30 years regardless, it won't appreciate much imo. I believe the Cowboys capped theirs at 30 years.

I have no idea what the Jets will do. They don't return my calls. By my own admission I am speculating.

[Maxman]

ouch, a page rank of 0, that sucks. Do you have any idea why they dropped you to zero?

Maybe you should start a campaign to get posters here on board with creating links back to jetnation, I would think your biggest problem is your inbound links, i doubt anyone has done much to get some. Maybe it could be as simple as asking people to post the link in their sigs when they post elsewhere, or mention it in their own blogs and put a link in their blogrolls? Maybe working your blog component and using feedburner or whatever to get it out there. Lots of different things you can do to get links out there. Not monetizing is just giving away free money. Another idea is to maybe go on a webmaster board and solicit help, with the promise of a % of your adsense proceeds for a chief seo officer or whatever.

Yeah not to get too off topic but it isn't inbound links. We have over 70,000 of them. We are PR 0 because google is the devil. The advertisers are dropping like flies. The google gravy train has left the station.

[4HCrew]

Gainzo you got that right...as a season ticket holder of any team you have the right to bitch about price increases, psls and whatever bs investment it is especially for a team that has won next to nothing over the years. If PSLs are not something that put a crimp in your pocket or you have a savings account set up for it..good for you..you have years of live jets football to watch. For me that is not the case and it pisses me off especially after all of the time and energy I willingly invested into this team.

[Sperm Edwards]

Well, to the point that you can buy it now and sell it later for a higher price, it is an investment.

Some investments don't last forever or need replenishing.

Say you spent $20,000 in 2010 but could sell it for $40,000 in 2020. Is that an investment? Yes it is.

Stadiums have an average life span of about 30 years and this one could last longer. It could last 40-50 years. At that point your $20,000 could be worth $80,000.

Again, it may not be the return on your money, but it is also not like buying something that has no future value.

"An asset or item that is purchased with the hope it will generate income or appreciate in the future."

BZ

Dude, in 40-50 years you think the value of the dollar won't go down? What $20K buys you today will buy you about $2-3K in 40-50 years. Meaning that $80K in 40-50 years is worth maybe $10-12K today's dollars. Except not even that much really. You're paying all $20K of that up-front, with after-tax dollars. When that time comes that you sell them in 40-50 years, you'll have to pay capital gains tax on $60K of your $80K. If by some miracle capital gains tax is still only in the 20% range, that's another $12K you lose. So now you're left with $60-65K, which will be worth some $9000 in today's dollars.

Investment? With an investment, you should be able to sell this asset someday and be able to buy more with it than you could have bought with the original purchase amount. So if the going rate for a PSL quadruples in 40-50 years, you'll have lost half your money (assuming you're still alive in the year 2055-ish, at which point the entirety of your after-tax leftover $9K will be spent on medication to keep you alive for 1 more year, lol).

Why not put that same money into a CD with no risk at all if you're looking to invest $20K? In 50 years, at an insanely-low 4% interest, you'd still be staring at some $140,000. $120,000 pre-tax net return, or double the return of a Jets PSL as you've outlined.

What does that mean? It means if you are the most conservative investor around, you could make double the money back in a super-low-interest CD. If that's the extent of your investing backbone, then you effectively paid $40K, not $20K. If you normally average 8% return on your investments, then it effectively cost you $80,000, not $20,000.

PER PSL. I'll wager a guess you don't want just one ticket.

If you still want your tickets, you'll have to shell out more as the price to their rights has gone up. Pay for it if you want them. But it is not an investment. When you get a long-term 2% annual return on your investment, you've lost an insane amount of money.

[shawn306]

Yeah let's invest in a team that hasn't won squadoosh in nearly 40 years.

Makes all the sense in the world to me.

Even if it you want to qualify this as an investment it is only good if the product is good. Why would you want to sell it then ?

I'm looking at it as as outsider though now. I do know that there would be no way I could in all honesty justify dropping 10-20 grand just for the rights to spend more money on season tickets.

There is something just very wrong with that.

[joiseyjet]

As a season ticket holder for an NFL team I have seen two or maybe three people in this tread trying to justify PSL's and the hike of season ticket prices.

If you guys can afford the prices good for you. Just don't make fun of us who have had enough of this stuff.

We deserve the right to bitch about this stuff. Max, 4H, Baumer, etc deserve that.

They are Woodys /theJETS PR guys (don`t let them tell you other wise) they are here to try and justify the rapeing of fans who have been nothing but loyal to them for DECADES by supporting an team that has done nothing but fail its fans over and over . They can try and BS you this is an investesment by comparing it to past PSL`s but the fact is PSL`s started at prices around $650 total ,then went to $1,000, then to $1,500,then to $2,500, then to $3,000, then $3,500 and these were prices for the best seats now your talking $5,000 for the worst seats and $20,000 for the best also WE ARE SHARING THIS STADIUM SO ANYTHING WE ARE PAYING SHOULD BE HALF THATS OF COURSE IF THESE WERE BE USED FOR WHAT THEY WERE INITALLY DESIGNED FOR WHICH WAS TO PAY MONEY TOWARDS THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE STADIUM AND NOT PROFIT WHICH IS WHAT WOODY AND HIS GREEDY GEENIES ARE USING THIS FOR ,I have it from a good source the Giants have no intention of charging the same rediculas amounts the JETS are they will be charging a lower price PSL much lower ,this is a owner saying he thinks at least as much about his fans as the money he could be raiseing ..once again i`ll do the math for you 30 million a year for stadium naming rights thats $900 million (FOR THE 30 YEAR LIFE OF THE STADIUM) right off the bat,then $5 million a year for each of the 4 entrance gate (A,B,C,& D rights) THATS 20 MILLION A YEAR MORE or $600 million a year more of the same 30 years thats $1.5 billion raised already for a 1.6 billion dollar stadium then 2.5 million a year for each of the 4 scoreboard naming righs thats 10 million more a year or 300 million more over the30 years life of the stadium we are now at 1.9 billion raised not to mention the 300 million the nfl is kicking in 200 luxory boxes starting at $250 grand up to 1 million a year.....they don`t need that insane PSL amount of money from me they could raise ticket prices $75 a game and that would be plenty extra profit for them

[Maxman]

Two more thoughts from me:

1. I agree with what Gainzo said. There are people that are acting like fans can't bitch about costs going up. Um, okay.

2. Sperm Edwards is like our big brother. He watches us have a slap fight :gfight:with our friends. Then after awhile he comes on down and teaches us how to throw an overhand right.

Next week we learn the uppercut!

[Sperm Edwards]

Two more thoughts from me:

1. I agree with what Gainzo said. There are people that are acting like fans can't bitch about costs going up. Um, okay.

2. Sperm Edwards is like our big brother. He watches us have a slap fight :gfight:with our friends. Then after awhile he comes on down and teaches us how to throw an overhand right.

Next week we learn the uppercut!

I learned my right uppercut from the master:

[Maxman]

I learned my right uppercut from the master:

Balboa won that fight.

I'm just saying.

[Sperm Edwards]

Balboa won that fight.

I'm just saying.

Yeah, but the fix was clearly in and he ended up as a punch-drunk mope.

[Maxman]

Yeah, but the fix was clearly in and he ended up as a punch-drunk mope.

I would love to respond and explain why your Rocky knowledge is lacking but I have to finish up this Endor Battle before the end of the day. Consider yourself lucky.

[BaumerJet]

They are Woodys /theJETS PR guys (don`t let them tell you other wise) they are here to try and justify the rapeing of fans who have been nothing but loyal to them for DECADES by supporting an team that has done nothing but fail its fans over and over . They can try and BS you this is an investesment by comparing it to past PSL`s but the fact is PSL`s started at prices around $650 total ,then went to $1,000, then to $1,500,then to $2,500, then to $3,000, then $3,500 and these were prices for the best seats now your talking $5,000 for the worst seats and $20,000 for the best also WE ARE SHARING THIS STADIUM SO ANYTHING WE ARE PAYING SHOULD BE HALF THATS OF COURSE IF THESE WERE BE USED FOR WHAT THEY WERE INITALLY DESIGNED FOR WHICH WAS TO PAY MONEY TOWARDS THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE STADIUM AND NOT PROFIT WHICH IS WHAT WOODY AND HIS GREEDY GEENIES ARE USING THIS FOR ,I have it from a good source the Giants have no intention of charging the same rediculas amounts the JETS are they will be charging a lower price PSL much lower ,this is a owner saying he thinks at least as much about his fans as the money he could be raiseing

If the Giants attempt to charge a LOWER PSL than the JETS or the JETS attempt to charge a Lower FEE than the GIANTS - either Season ticket holder could take either team to court over the rate for exactly the same seat location.

That's why some of the Giants Sites 1st overheard the $5,000.00 per seat - ENTIRE STADIUM PSL theory - Which unfortunately makes sense! However, Last years's owners meeting completely confirmed that the direction Team Jets Goes - So does the Giants. (They both confirmed that they were looking into selling HALF of the PSL's for a minimum $5,000.00 Each - Per team/per seat - No 1/2 of the deal).

Joisey, with the aid of Dallas, the Giants/Jets partnership - I have to reiterate it - THIS IS A PARTNERSHIP - Will not let one side sell a PSL for More/Less than the other. What happens at Giants camp will effect the Jets & vice versa.

Just remember, before your desimate Team Johnson - you have to do the same for team Mara/Tisch!

Besides, we will all know the outcome within the next 6-weeks anyway!

[BwanaZulia]

They are Woodys /theJETS PR guys (don`t let them tell you other wise) they are here to try and justify the rapeing of fans who have been nothing but loyal to them for DECADES by supporting an team that has done nothing but fail its fans over and over .

Sorry dude... I am just a jets fan, a season ticket hold and a homer.

BZ

[Maxman]

Sorry dude... I am just a jets fan, a season ticket hold and a homer.

BZ

Am I allowed to tell people that you are married to Woody's cousin? Or is that still a secret? Let me know.

Thanks.

[Gainzo]

When do you guys usually receive your season ticket invoices? Has there been any word from the media about possible price increases this year?

[Maxman]

When do you guys usually receive your season ticket invoices? Has there been any word from the media about possible price increases this year?

The Jets sent out a survey asking about money and trying to determine peoples breaking points. Since they felt compelled to do that I am going to assume that they weren't worried about the reaction to a price reduction.

In other words -- the Jets raise prices every year.

[Gainzo]

The Jets sent out a survey asking about money and trying to determine peoples breaking points. Since they felt compelled to do that I am going to assume that they weren't worried about the reaction to a price reduction.

In other words -- the Jets raise prices every year.

A survey? Thats interesting.

Do the Jets institute 100% payment in full by a certain date? The Pats have been doing that for years. Pay your invoice by March 31 or else your tickets are gone.