cashing in on rights now or wait it out?

[124]

Yeah those fans in the seats on Opening Day 2010 are going to be loud alright.. talking on their cellphones about their next big business deals. You're kidding yourself if you think more than a quarter of the stadium will be actual fans at games come 2010 and in the future if the Jets & Giants put PSL's in place.

[joebabyny]

Yeah those fans in the seats on Opening Day 2010 are going to be loud alright.. talking on their cellphones about their next big business deals. You're kidding yourself if you think more than a quarter of the stadium will be actual fans at games come 2010 and in the future if the Jets & Giants put PSL's in place.

I love the generalizations. Please, if the stadium is full of "the regular guy" now then they can just stay home. It has gotten pathetic how people leave earlier and earlier. It started at a few minutes left in the game, than people started leaving at the beginning of the 4th to beat the people leaving with a few minutes left, and now it is at the point where people are leaving in THE THIRD QUARTER. How bad does it suck to get up every 2 minutes so another ***** fan can get by you to get to their car "before the traffic." It was absurd how many people left in the 3rd and 4th quarter and right before overtime during the steelers game. How many dopes listened to a great ending from their radios after they left the game? And how many dopes gave or sold their tix to steelers fans that night? If that is the regular and good fan that you are counting on to give you a home field advantage then I say screw 'em. The jets have not had a 4th quarter home field advantage in any games in a while.

And I know I will be there screaming as loud as anyone, and a lot of fans who are not millionaires but ponied up the psl money will be sitting their screaming. And maybe the douche bag fans who used to leave in the 3rd quarter will be replaced by new douche bags who leave in the 3rd quarter, but whatever at least they paid up so that we could get a new stadium and it will be the same amount of people sitting there at the end.

Now Joe, I know you stick around until the end, you have to see what I see, the current crop of fans at the game are weak with leaving like they do, you have to admit that.

[124]

Now Joe, I know you stick around until the end, you have to see what I see, the current crop of fans at the game are weak with leaving like they do, you have to admit that.

I do admit that but if you think its bad now, just wait until 2010 and beyond if there are PSL's. The stadium won't be half as full as it is now late in the games and in Decembers when the team is playing like absolute garbage like they usually do at least every other year. We are the Jets after all.

[BwanaZulia]

Yeah those fans in the seats on Opening Day 2010 are going to be loud alright.. talking on their cellphones about their next big business deals. You're kidding yourself if you think more than a quarter of the stadium will be actual fans at games come 2010 and in the future if the Jets & Giants put PSL's in place.

Man... talk about your stereotypes.

I guess people who work all day in an office and own cell phones can't be loud loyal fans.

Oh and all those people who bought tickets, paid the PSLs and went to the games won't be loyal loud Jet fans either.

The only one true loyal loud Jet fans are the ones there now. The old, blue colored, hard working, no-cellphone-having, fans. That is it. Full stop.

BZ

[BwanaZulia]

I love the generalizations. Please, if the stadium is full of "the regular guy" now then they can just stay home. It has gotten pathetic how people leave earlier and earlier. It started at a few minutes left in the game, than people started leaving at the beginning of the 4th to beat the people leaving with a few minutes left, and now it is at the point where people are leaving in THE THIRD QUARTER. How bad does it suck to get up every 2 minutes so another ***** fan can get by you to get to their car "before the traffic." It was absurd how many people left in the 3rd and 4th quarter and right before overtime during the steelers game. How many dopes listened to a great ending from their radios after they left the game? And how many dopes gave or sold their tix to steelers fans that night? If that is the regular and good fan that you are counting on to give you a home field advantage then I say screw 'em. The jets have not had a 4th quarter home field advantage in any games in a while.

And I know I will be there screaming as loud as anyone, and a lot of fans who are not millionaires but ponied up the psl money will be sitting their screaming. And maybe the douche bag fans who used to leave in the 3rd quarter will be replaced by new douche bags who leave in the 3rd quarter, but whatever at least they paid up so that we could get a new stadium and it will be the same amount of people sitting there at the end.

Now Joe, I know you stick around until the end, you have to see what I see, the current crop of fans at the game are weak with leaving like they do, you have to admit that.

POTW NOM!

BZ

[124]

Okay all and knowning BZ. So now you're going to try to tell me corporations with people making millions or close to it have more big fans than the everyday normal average Joe? Please tell me you're kidding. It isn't even close. Those people care more about the $$$ and their fancy dancy houses and wine than they do the NFL. They might like it, but they don't bleed it and care about it and love it.

Listen, I come from a family that has some money and if I really, really wanted to bend over for Woody Johnson in two years I could put up the money with ease. It would be like dropping $100. No problem. However, its bull**** that they are going to take out the Middle Class fans, the fans that have been there for years for more Corporations and Suits.

You know and I know it that there will be less die hard fans at those games, whether you'd like to admit it and type it out on here or not.

[joebabyny]

Man... talk about your stereotypes.

I guess people who work all day in an office and own cell phones can't be loud loyal fans.

Oh and all those people who bought tickets, paid the PSLs and went to the games won't be loyal loud Jet fans either.

The only one true loyal loud Jet fans are the ones there now. The old, blue colored, hard working, no-cellphone-having, fans. That is it. Full stop.

BZ

yeah, the ones rushing to be the first car out of the lot, hahahaha, whatev.

[BwanaZulia]

I do admit that but if you think its bad now, just wait until 2010 and beyond if there are PSL's. The stadium won't be half as full as it is now late in the games and in Decembers when the team is playing like absolute garbage like they usually do at least every other year. We are the Jets after all.

So why watch? If you think it is all going to ****, if all the fans suck, if the new fans will suck harder, if the Jets will never win, if they will never be better, if owner is schmuck and in the end we will be the same old Jets.

Why watch?

Seriously. If I felt that way I would sell my tickets and invest in something that gave me joy on the weekends, not headaches and heartaches.

BZ

[124]

What both of you fail to realize and comprehend is that although you complain about the fans now, you will see more and more leaving early and more and more not showing up for late season games when the team sucks because the richie riches will not waste their precious times sitting there and neither will the corporations who want to impress their clients.

[124]

So why watch? If you think it is all going to ****, if all the fans suck, if the new fans will suck harder, if the Jets will never win, if they will never be better, if owner is schmuck and in the end we will be the same old Jets.

Why watch?

Seriously. If I felt that way I would sell my tickets and invest in something that gave me joy on the weekends, not headaches and heartaches.

BZ

So no matter what the Jets do its right and they are definitely going to be awesome some day? I love your optimism but what in this franchises history has shown you that they're going to turn things around? Each time it looks that way they tun around and slap you in the face and bring you back into reality.

I get plenty of joy going to the games and I love the Jets more than I do a lot of things. I care about them more than I do things that I should care about and invest a lot of my time and money into the team. I go to every game, Preseason included, and I stay until the end, Preseason included. I lose my voice, I support the team in their decisions even when I think they are wrong, etc.

Every team is going to give you headaches and heartaches unless you are not a true fan and are just there for the atmosphere. Spare me with that garbage.

[BwanaZulia]

Okay all and knowning BZ. So now you're going to try to tell me corporations with people making millions or close to it have more big fans than the everyday normal average Joe? Please tell me you're kidding. It isn't even close. Those people care more about the $$$ and their fancy dancy houses and wine than they do the NFL. They might like it, but they don't bleed it and care about it and love it.

Listen, I come from a family that has some money and if I really, really wanted to bend over for Woody Johnson in two years I could put up the money with ease. It would be like dropping $100. No problem. However, its bull**** that they are going to take out the Middle Class fans, the fans that have been there for years for more Corporations and Suits.

You know and I know it that there will be less die hard fans at those games, whether you'd like to admit it and type it out on here or not.

I love this myth of the "normal average Joe" who is a "Middle Class Fan" who also shells out more than $2,000 a year for tickets, spends over $100 a week for 8 weeks going to games which represents 5% of his income and lives in New York or New Jersey.

I think you are talking about Packers Fans.

This New York / New Jersey. Average Joe moved out west in 1956. Send him a postcard.

This is the capital of the world, one of the biggest and most expensive cities in the world to live in. The real estate prices are crazy. The salaries are way above average. It costs $4 for a coffee, $6 for a beer and a movie costs $12. Average Joe from the "Middle Class" can't go out to dinner in NY let alone be a season ticket holder.

What we have are hard working New York / New Jersey residents who come from multiple income families, bust their balls during the week, but probably at corporate jobs. They do ok, own a few cars, a nice house / apt and obviously have the spare $3,000 a year to dump on something they can watch for free.

BZ

[joebabyny]

Okay all and knowning BZ. So now you're going to try to tell me corporations with people making millions or close to it have more big fans than the everyday normal average Joe? Please tell me you're kidding. It isn't even close.

Listen, I come from a family that has some money and if I really, really wanted to bend over for Woody Johnson in two years I could put up the money with ease. It would be like dropping $100. No problem. However, its bull**** that they are going to take out the Middle Class fans, the fans that have been there for years for more Corporations and Suits.

You know and I know it that there will be less die hard fans at those games, whether you'd like to admit it and type it out on here or not.

OK, here is a little reality check for those who have never worked in corp america and don't have access to the benefits like concerts and sporting events. I spent 5 years on an equity buy side desk that managed a few billion, so I had access whenever I wanted to any event anywhere. Football tickets are not very favorable for this kind of thing. First of all games are played on sundays. Most of the finance/corp guys want to go out on thursday nights, and want to stay in the city so that they can go for drinks at the bar after work, and head to the game afterward and have their company provided car service wait for them around the corner to shuffle them home. Nobody ever wants to go to games on the weekends because generally the host who gave you the tix won't be there with his credit card to pick up dinner and food at the stadium and weekends are for the family anyway, not business socializing. Also, a lot of the wall street suits have no desire to travel to games out in jersey, and have no desire to sit outside in the elements. It is not so easy to just go to a football game in a social business environment like it is for a rangers or knocks or even yanks game. When I was on the desk hardly anyone ever called with football tix and when they did nobody was interested in them. This just isn't going to change. The only people who would be interested in the free tix would be people who are actually fans. If you think some 40 year old senior trader is going to get out of bed on a sunday morning to go watch a sport he isn't interested in just because the tix are free, you are obviously clueless to how this all works.

End of day, maybe the per capita income of jets fans at the game will rise, but they will still be fans. And let me ask you this, if I can afford to pay the psl premium, am I any less of a fan than a guy who got priced out? Look at me, I have not missed a game in years, I throw a huge party at every game where I foot the bill 100% and spend an entire weekend preparing for it, and I am a pretty regular poster on a jets fan board. I would say I am a great fan, and I would also say I am not an exception, but there are tons more people like me.

[124]

There are people all over New Jersey and New York who make no more than $50,000 a year. How is that not Average Joe? They survive and are still able to make the occasional trip to the City and I know some who have season tickets, infact I know many. Now a lot of them are going to be dropping them soon because of the PSL's. Don't try to tell me there are no Average Joe's around here just because you want to better your argument.

[BwanaZulia]

So no matter what the Jets do its right and they are definitely going to be awesome some day? I love your optimism but what in this franchises history has shown you that they're going to turn things around? Each time it looks that way they tun around and slap you in the face and bring you back into reality.

I get plenty of joy going to the games and I love the Jets more than I do a lot of things. I care about them more than I do things that I should care about and invest a lot of my time and money into the team. I go to every game, Preseason included, and I stay until the end, Preseason included. I lose my voice, I support the team in their decisions even when I think they are wrong, etc.

Every team is going to give you headaches and heartaches unless you are not a true fan and are just there for the atmosphere. Spare me with that garbage.

You are one of the very few and don't even represent the Average Joe or the Average Jets fans.

What I think is there is a lot of people on that stadium on Sunday that are NOT JETS FANS, they are people who have been given tickets by Giants fans or sold tickets by Jets season ticket holders who don't ever go to games.

Those are the people who don't stay. They are the people who leave early or don't come when it rains. They are the people who don't cheer.

And yes, I do think PSLs will weed some of them out. I think the figure was something like 20% of Jets Season Ticket holders were Giants Fans. They will not pay for PSLs, they will give them up.

All those other Season Ticket Holders, the ones who just sell them every year but never go to a game (I know three people alone who do that) they too will give up their tickets and let some of those 10,000 fans who have been waiting on a list for 10 years get a shot to actually go to a game.

Out with old, in with new.

BZ

[124]

I'm sorry but I cannot believe that 20% of the Jets fans at the stadium on Sundays are Giants fans. I've been to Giants games as I usally go to one game a year and you see plenty of Giants fans, unless its a big game, leaving late in the 3rd and early in the 4th quarter. Yes its not as much as the Jets fans do it, but the Jets fans are younger and the franchise has been around less so sometimes the fanbase might have real diehards like myself, yourself, Joebaby,4HCrew, Can't Hackett, etc. but they also have some real dickheads. Giants fans they're too old to move or they pass out and someone wakes them up on the way out.

I know what you mean that SOME Giants fans have Jets season tickets as a father's friend of mine does. He also has Giants and Devils season tickets but this is because he is rich and likes to have options outside of his Giants. However, he sells the Jets games to Jets fans or fans of the opposing team. Thats is the type of non-Jets fan I don't mind owning the seats.

[124]

And hey guys while I'd love to stay and argue, I'm off to work.

[BwanaZulia]

I'm sorry but I cannot believe that 20% of the Jets fans at the stadium on Sundays are Giants fans. I've been to Giants games as I usally go to one game a year and you see plenty of Giants fans, unless its a big game, leaving late in the 3rd and early in the 4th quarter. Yes its not as much as the Jets fans do it, but the Jets fans are younger and the franchise has been around less so sometimes the fanbase might have real diehards like myself, yourself, Joebaby,4HCrew, Can't Hackett, etc. but they also have some real dickheads. Giants fans they're too old to move or they pass out and someone wakes them up on the way out.

I know what you mean that SOME Giants fans have Jets season tickets as a father's friend of mine does. He also has Giants and Devils season tickets but this is because he is rich and likes to have options outside of his Giants. However, he sells the Jets games to Jets fans or fans of the opposing team. Thats is the type of non-Jets fan I don't mind owning the seats.

I said that 20% of the Jets Season Ticket holders are Giants fans, not that those are the ones going to the games. They don't go, they just sell their tickets to the opposing fans.

I remember the stat from the big meeting that the Jets had for season ticket holders way back when about the West Side Stadium. It came out in one of their studies.

BZ

[4HCrew]

So now 20% of Jets season ticket holders are actually Giants fans who buy the seats and sell them to opposing fans. You went deep in your book of BS for that. Face that facts the Jets have a lousy fan base when it comes to attendance. The ones that leave early fall in the same category as the ones that leave early from Giant games, yankee games, mets games and knick games. It is just the way fans are in this area. Not saying ALL fans as I never leave early but a decent percentage.

[Gainzo]

You guys had a great owner in Leon Hess. He always kept the ticket prices low which was amazing considering the Jets are in the biggest media market in the Country.

Now that you have Woody running the show everything has changed. How much have the tickets gone up since Woody bought the team?

[Maxman]

You guys had a great owner in Leon Hess. He always kept the ticket prices low which was amazing considering the Jets are in the biggest media market in the Country.

Now that you have Woody running the show everything has changed. How much have the tickets gone up since Woody bought the team?

764%

[Gainzo]

764%

Seriously. How much have tickets gone up since Woody bought the team?

BZ likes to throw the Pats under the bus because they have the highest ticket prices in the League. He still doesn't understand that Gillette was privately funded and that PSL's weren't used.

[BwanaZulia]

Seriously. How much have tickets gone up since Woody bought the team?

BZ likes to throw the Pats under the bus because they have the highest ticket prices in the League. He still doesn't understand that Gillette was privately funded and that PSL's weren't used.

You still can't do the math.

Yes, the cheapest NFL stadium, built in the woods, was privately funded, but since Kraft has also instituted the highest fan cost (beer, tickets, parking, etc) that private funding is now on the shoulders of YOU the Pats fan.

Get that?

Add to that the $5,000 transfer fee and Kraft is making out real well.

BZ

[Gainzo]

You still can't do the math.

Yes, the cheapest NFL stadium, built in the woods, was privately funded, but since Kraft has also instituted the highest fan cost (beer, tickets, parking, etc) that private funding is now on the shoulders of YOU the Pats fan.

Get that?

Add to that the $5,000 transfer fee and Kraft is making out real well.

BZ

Kraft tried to build a Stadium in South Boston but because he didn't payoff the politicians it didn't happen.

Built in the woods? Where the heck is Giants Stadium then. As far as I know it's in the middle of nowhere.

You are a lemming. You are more than happy to fork over $5k or more per seat just for the right to purchase season tickets.

I feel bad for people like Max, 4H, 124, etc that may lose their season tickets as they don't want to fork over cash just for the right to fork over even more money for season tickets.

BTW: Jets ticket prices are quickly approaching those of the Pats. How do you explain that?

[BwanaZulia]

2007 Fan Cost Index:

Pats:

$90.90 - Avg season ticket price

$566.67 - Avg premium ticket

$482.47 - FCI

Jets:

$80.80 - Avg season ticket price

$330.11 - Avg premium ticket

$425.25 - FCI

And I am the lemming? You guys are being gouged every game for the last 7 years in a smaller media market, in a cheap stadium built in the woods but I am the lemming?

What you and some of the others don't get (and never seem to respond to) is that you are going to pay ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. Yes, the Pats didn't do a PSL for their $350,000,000 stadium but have the highest costs for tickets and sundries for the last 7 years.

The Jets/Giants are building a $1.3+ BILLION dollar stadium so the fans have to ask if they want to pay for it in every price from beer, to hotdogs, to parking and tickets or if they rather offset that by paying a one time fee that allows them to at least sell the tickets in the future.

Quick math says that if the Pats fans have to pay $50 more a game for 10 games a year, they have paid the $5,000 PSL in 10 years. Of course at that point, if they want to sell their tickets, they have to pay ANOTHER $5,000 per ticket fee to do so, in essense paying ANOTHER PSL.

Funny how that adds up, eh?

As a season ticket hold I pay either way. At least with PSLs I can decide my own fate 10 years down the roads.

BZ

[124]

What you BZ fail to understand is not only will the PSL's be around $5K a seat, but they will also raise the price of parking, beer, food and tickets. Do not fool yourself. PSL's or not you won't find a ticket cheaper in the new stadium than $100, $110. Bank on it.

[BwanaZulia]

What you BZ fail to understand is not only will the PSL's be around $5K a seat, but they will also raise the price of parking, beer, food and tickets. Do not fool yourself. PSL's or not you won't find a ticket cheaper in the new stadium than $100, $110. Bank on it.

So you STILL won't talk about the math I laid out above.

Yes, prices will rise. All entertainment prices rise. PSLs should help keep them down over the long term.

BZ

[Maxman]

I think I am missing something. If the Jets had won a bunch of Super Bowls in recent memory, built a new stadium all for themselves and not charged me a PSL, I would fully expect to pay higher ticket prices.

All those things being said I fear the gap between our prices and theirs will be really close when all is said and done. Except we pay upfront (PSL) they pay if they want to transfer.

I would sign up for their plan in a NY second.

[flushingjet]

Can you hear it?

I'm playing a sad song for the "little guy" average Jets fan who allegedly will be squeezed

out of game attendance by PSLs on the world's tiniest violin. You know, the "real" fan who when not getting out of his seat 25 times for beer leaves early or sells his tickets to Steelers/Dolphins/Raiders/visitor fans that I have to deal with sitting next to me any time and any game of the year.

That same "real" fan who decided they couldn't make the arduous cross-country drive to NJ so that Giants fans could be Jet fan dillettantes and pick up many of the 20,000+ seats that became available in the GS move. If there are so many "real" fans, why have the Jets had so many no-shows all these years to the present?

Analysis from back in 1993:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0DA1438F93AA15753C1A965958260

In defense of BZ, its long been surmised that at least 20% of Jets season ticket holders are held by Giants fans. No one had to or has to take a loyalty test to the Jets to get tickets, they just had to get in line. Given that there have been fan families who rooted for both teams going back to pre-merger days and Giants tickets being much harder to acquire than Jets tickets why is that so difficult to grasp?

As Jets tickets rights can be retained year after year for nothing more than ticket cost I'd be happy for PSLs to arrive just to clear out the Giant/speculator attendees currently polluting the place.

Obviously there is more than a little petty jealousy aimed at some of the more successful, monied or "corporate" fellow Jet fans. And certain a laughable lack of understanding of NYC area economics when the expectation is for ticket prices to remain static when all costs and taxes increase year after year. If believing in class warfare makes you feel better about yourself, please give up your tickets, stay home or in a bar somewhere. I'm sure I'll be seeing you in droves on Moonachie Road with "Need 2 Tickx" signs anyway.

Lastly, I don't see logic in giving up Jets tickets now in anticipation of PSLs later - no one gets a cent for giving up rights now and if you change your mind later you'll either have to get back in line or pay for a PSL at market rates. All of us lament the property or stock we didn't buy when we had the chance, similiarly there will be many who rued the day they gave up their Jets seats for investment purposes alone....

[Jet Moses]

Can you hear it?

I'm playing a sad song for the "little guy" average Jets fan who allegedly will be squeezed

out of game attendance by PSLs on the world's tiniest violin. You know, the "real" fan who when not getting out of his seat 25 times for beer leaves early or sells his tickets to Steelers/Dolphins/Raiders/visitor fans that I have to deal with sitting next to me any time and any game of the year.

That same "real" fan who decided they couldn't make the arduous cross-country drive to NJ so that Giants fans could be Jet fan dillettantes and pick up many of the 20,000+ seats that became available in the GS move. If there are so many "real" fans, why have the Jets had so many no-shows all these years to the present?

Analysis from back in 1993:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE0DA1438F93AA15753C1A965958260

In defense of BZ, its long been surmised that at least 20% of Jets season ticket holders are held by Giants fans. No one had to or has to take a loyalty test to the Jets to get tickets, they just had to get in line. Given that there have been fan families who rooted for both teams going back to pre-merger days and Giants tickets being much harder to acquire than Jets tickets why is that so difficult to grasp?

As Jets tickets rights can be retained year after year for nothing more than ticket cost I'd be happy for PSLs to arrive just to clear out the Giant/speculator attendees currently polluting the place.

Obviously there is more than a little petty jealousy aimed at some of the more successful, monied or "corporate" fellow Jet fans. And certain a laughable lack of understanding of NYC area economics when the expectation is for ticket prices to remain static when all costs and taxes increase year after year. If believing in class warfare makes you feel better about yourself, please give up your tickets, stay home or in a bar somewhere. I'm sure I'll be seeing you in droves on Moonachie Road with "Need 2 Tickx" signs anyway.

Lastly, I don't see logic in giving up Jets tickets now in anticipation of PSLs later - no one gets a cent for giving up rights now and if you change your mind later you'll either have to get back in line or pay for a PSL at market rates. All of us lament the property or stock we didn't buy when we had the chance, similiarly there will be many who rued the day they gave up their Jets seats for investment purposes alone....

Nice avatar.