CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Just said on the FAN what all of us who aren't professional athletes already knew, is that not going for it on 4th and less the 1 from 2 to start the game set the tone for the game and was a big reason they lost. Just like what happened in San Francisco btw.. I nearly put my foot through the TV when I saw the FG team come on and said to my brother we are going to lose this game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 i don't get why it's such a big deal. it looked like for a while that 3-0 would be good enough to win, and if it isn't, not like 7-0 gets it done either. ditto 10-6 if Mangini lets em go for the 50 yard FG. however you slice it offense has to come up with more points, and I don't think B Favre can adjust or learn new plays at this stage of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Listening to banks right now He is spot on If Brett wants to come back, we should welcome him with open arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsMetsRangers Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Just said on the FAN what all of us who aren't professional athletes already knew, is that not going for it on 4th and less the 1 from 2 to start the game set the tone for the game and was a big reason they lost. Just like what happened in San Francisco btw.. I nearly put my foot through the TV when I saw the FG team come on and said to my brother we are going to lose this game.. Same old **** playing not to lose......Instead of smacking Seattle in the face we settle for a field goal.....That mentality is a major reason why the Jets spit the bit down the stretch.....We gave the Seahawks a reason to believe when we should of ran the ball down their throats on 4th down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 i don't get why it's such a big deal. it looked like for a while that 3-0 would be good enough to win, and if it isn't, not like 7-0 gets it done either. ditto 10-6 if Mangini lets em go for the 50 yard FG. however you slice it offense has to come up with more points, and I don't think B Favre can adjust or learn new plays at this stage of the game. Going out and scoring a TD bursts the "holmgrems last game" bubble and takes the crowd out of it from the get go.. Worst case scenario, Seattle and their Oline of Backups start off at their own 1 on their first drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Same old **** playing not to lose......Instead of smacking Seattle in the face we settle for a field goal.....That mentality is a major reason why the Jets spit the bit down the stretch.....We gave the Seahawks a reason to believe when we should of ran the ball down their throats on 4th down.... Exactly. It kills them right from the start. Playing scared and going for a FG gives Seattle all the momentum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Listening to banks right now He is spot on If Brett wants to come back, we should welcome him with open arms Why? To sell merchandising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Why? To sell merchandising? Same arguement for Chad, cause there's no one better out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 ok and what happens if they don't kick the field goal and don't get the first down? crowd goes crazy - if nothing else changes they get shut out. on the road, you take the points, it's a conservative way to coach but I agree with it. If you don't get those first few points that goose-egg has a way of persisting. again i don't see the problem here, it's not like 1 TD wins the game and it's not like 1st quarter touchdowns are worth double points. The offense had to do more all day long, and they just didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Name 12 QB's who are better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Why? To sell merchandising? i hte to say it but i'd almost rather see Ratliff at this point. Favre hasn't been a championship level player for years. He can't learn new plays, he can't adjust and the league figured out the Jets simple offense weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 ok and what happens if they don't kick the field goal and don't get the first down? crowd goes crazy - if nothing else changes they get shut out. on the road, you take the points, it's a conservative way to coach but I agree with it. If you don't get those first few points that goose-egg has a way of persisting. again i don't see the problem here, it's not like 1 TD wins the game and it's not like 1st quarter touchdowns are worth double points. The offense had to do more all day long, and they just didn't. I agree. ALL players and former players would go for it there. But on the road in a loud stadium the points are the smarter way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Name 12 QB's who are better? Better is not even what we need. Favre is a sitting duck back there and easy to game plan. He does not fit this offense. Look at what Flacco and Ryan did for their teams this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 ok and what happens if they don't kick the field goal and don't get the first down? crowd goes crazy - if nothing else changes they get shut out. on the road, you take the points, it's a conservative way to coach but I agree with it. If you don't get those first few points that goose-egg has a way of persisting. again i don't see the problem here, it's not like 1 TD wins the game and it's not like 1st quarter touchdowns are worth double points. The offense had to do more all day long, and they just didn't. Your reasoning sounds as if you think each play in a football game is just a long series of discrete events, none of which have any impact on each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 ok and what happens if they don't kick the field goal and don't get the first down? crowd goes crazy - if nothing else changes they get shut out. on the road, you take the points, it's a conservative way to coach but I agree with it. If you don't get those first few points that goose-egg has a way of persisting. again i don't see the problem here, it's not like 1 TD wins the game and it's not like 1st quarter touchdowns are worth double points. The offense had to do more all day long, and they just didn't. Why do you think that a TD there couldn't have changed the tone of the game and effected everything that happened after? We were averaging like 6 yards a carry and have for 1st rounders on our oline, with the playoffs on the line he needed to trust his players to get a half a yard.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Your reasoning sounds as if you think each play in a football game is just a long series of discrete events, none of which have any impact on each other. Yup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 ok and what happens if they don't kick the field goal and don't get the first down? crowd goes crazy - if nothing else changes they get shut out. on the road, you take the points, it's a conservative way to coach but I agree with it. If you don't get those first few points that goose-egg has a way of persisting. again i don't see the problem here, it's not like 1 TD wins the game and it's not like 1st quarter touchdowns are worth double points. The offense had to do more all day long, and they just didn't. C'mon Matt You have to have instincts.....you have to show faith in your players By not going for it, after marching down the field, shows exactly that...a lack of confidence Why play for a guy if he has no confidnece in you I went through that in College, and the coach was sent packing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 hahahaha... Banks just said the team needs screaming and yelling this week... :rl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Your reasoning sounds as if you think each play in a football game is just a long series of discrete events, none of which have any impact on each other. untrue. I said in my post if they don't get ANY points on that drive yesterdays' result is even uglier. Gotta get those points on the road, it's not a bad decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Better is not even what we need. Favre is a sitting duck back there and easy to game plan. He does not fit this offense. Look at what Flacco and Ryan did for their teams this year. Flacco ain't no Jeff Garcia back there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 untrue. I said in my post if they don't get ANY points on that drive yesterdays' result is even uglier. Gotta get those points on the road, it's not a bad decision. Bah, but then the opposing offense starts at their own 1 with and entire offensive line of backups!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 untrue. I said in my post if they don't get ANY points on that drive yesterdays' result is even uglier. Gotta get those points on the road, it's not a bad decision. Homah!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 C'mon Matt You have to have instincts.....you have to show faith in your players By not going for it, after marching down the field, shows exactly that...a lack of confidence Why play for a guy if he has no confidnece in you I went through that in College, and the coach was sent packing it was a snowstorm game, it could have ended 3-0 or 6-3. the points are too essential to pass up. Again that's not why they lost. They lost because after that drive they couldn't score another point. They couldn't convert on 3rd down, they couldn't make big catches, that's why they lost. not because of a difference of 3 or 7 points on the opening drive. and not because of the fg/punt decision later on. Those are points where the fans can second guess the coach but neither decision was a game-loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Bah, but then the opposing offense starts at their own 1 with and entire offensive line of backups!! how many points is that worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 how many points is that worth? Potentially 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 it was a snowstorm game, it could have ended 3-0 or 6-3. the points are too essential to pass up. Again that's not why they lost. They lost because after that drive they couldn't score another point. They couldn't convert on 3rd down, they couldn't make big catches, that's why they lost. not because of a difference of 3 or 7 points on the opening drive. and not because of the fg/punt decision later on. Those are points where the fans can second guess the coach but neither decision was a game-loser. I couldn't disagree more They needed to set the tone...a tone that the players would feed off You played ball in college, you were an OLineman.....would you have faith in your coach if he had no faith in you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Potentially 7 we can go back and forth on this - im not saying the coach is blame less. I just believe end of the day coaches coach and players play. the Jets PLAYERS didn't score enough points yesterday to win, and I don't know that a different coach gets a different result. Fire them all if you want, end of the day you still have a 40 year old QB that think he's got the same arm when he was 18 and knows about 10 plays. that's gonna work sometimes but not all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 untrue. I said in my post if they don't get ANY points on that drive yesterdays' result is even uglier. Gotta get those points on the road, it's not a bad decision. I disagree... the team is reeling after turning in three straight miserable performances, and they're on the road, in bad weather, against a (supposedly) inferior opponent. By not going for it in that spot, you're sending a message to your offense that you lack confidence in their ability to convert and tells your opponent that you're scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 we can go back and forth on this - im not saying the coach is blame less. I just believe end of the day coaches coach and players play. the Jets PLAYERS didn't score enough points yesterday to win, and I don't know that a different coach gets a different result. Fire them all if you want, end of the day you still have a 40 year old QB that think he's got the same arm when he was 18 and knows about 10 plays. that's gonna work sometimes but not all the time. Bit, you can't make the QB the scapegoat here when the collapse has been across the board. Across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Going out and scoring a TD bursts the "holmgrems last game" bubble and takes the crowd out of it from the get go.. Worst case scenario, Seattle and their Oline of Backups start off at their own 1 on their first drive. And fans scream for Mangini's head for a dumb play call on 4th down instead of taking the points. I agreed with the call with the way we moved the ball on that first drive. Take the points and get another scoring drive. There was no reason to believe we wouldnt be able to move the ball the rest of the game. Hindsight is 20/20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 I disagree... the team is reeling after turning in three straight miserable performances, and they're on the road, in bad weather, against a (supposedly) inferior opponent. By not going for it in that spot, you're sending a message to your offense that you lack confidence in their ability to convert and tells your opponent that you're scared. Not to mention the 0-3 on the WC monkey. Mangini coached that game not to lose it. Having argued with Bit many time in the past, I know this is a strategy he advocates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I couldn't disagree more They needed to set the tone...a tone that the players would feed off You played ball in college, you were an OLineman.....would you have faith in your coach if he had no faith in you? Going for it doesn't necessarily show faith... sometimes a coach has to protect the players from themselves. taking the points preserves positive momentum. it gets you something where you could have gotten nothing... coming away with nothing sets the crowd on fire. we say go for it as if we know for sure they would have gotten it. and as if that TD changes the outcome of the game. that's alot of if's. it's possible they go for it, get the 7 and still lose 13-10. the game is bigger than a couple of drives. the problem wasn't the decision making it was the offense that only got in the red zone 2x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 And fans scream for Mangini's head for a dumb play call on 4th down instead of taking the points. I agreed with the call with the way we moved the ball on that first drive. Take the points and get another scoring drive. There was no reason to believe we wouldnt be able to move the ball the rest of the game. Hindsight is 20/20. Do you remember the San Fran game SSDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I disagree... the team is reeling after turning in three straight miserable performances, and they're on the road, in bad weather, against a (supposedly) inferior opponent. By not going for it in that spot, you're sending a message to your offense that you lack confidence in their ability to convert and tells your opponent that you're scared. If our players are that big of pu$$ies then they shouldnt be playing football. We moved the ball down field pretty well that first drive. There is no reason to believe we would suck after that. Fact is the coaching sucked and the players didnt execute and make plays in all 3 aspects of the game. Everyone on the jets sideline is to blame for the loss. And since Mangini cannot get this team to play hard for him he must go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 ok let's say JonE and CTM are the coach, they say GO FOR IT 2x and let's even say it works, twice. 7 points on the opening drive and 3 points on a 50 yard FG. where does that leave them? 10 points doesn't win the game. the offense was garbage yesterday and YES it goes to the coach but it also goes to the QB. im basically sick and tired of the Brett Favre show. the magic is gone and it's clear why GB felt they needed to move on. he's better than anyone we would have had (yes even Chad) but he doesn't allow the coaches to call all their plays or throw in new plays as the season progresses. That's not going to win titles. to paraphrase dennis green We are who we thought we are - a 9 or 10 win team at best. to expect more is to be delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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