Star Wars Mafia

[HessStation]

That's two. brett and myself. I suppose we would need some more.

Jeez, I had my computer on and did not refresh. I'm like 5 pages behind right now.

[DPR]

Vote Count

JVoR (3) - JiF, Klecko

Doggin (4) - Sharrow, DPR, SMC, brettw4rd

AVM (1) - Pac

Dan X (1) - CTM

DPR (3) - JVOR, Doggin, slats

Vicious (1) - Vicious

With 17 players remaining, it takes 9 votes to feed the Sarlacc.

This is the current vote count. Crusher is no longer on it, and I've inhereted the three amigos.

This is such obvious collusion that I can't believe it.

I'm guessing that they just need somebody to set their plan into motion, and they follow the trail of whomever they are most likely to get lynched.

Creative? Yes. Trustworthy? I'm going to have to go with "no" on that one...

[slats]

Fair enough.

First of all, understand that my opinion means nothing. If everyone votes to investigate me, all they have to do is vote.

Asking me is just a charade, which Doggin knows.

I'm betting that there are a few other things that Doggin knows as well. Whether it be a Double Voter, a Role Switcher (in which case your on the line now too...) or whatever.

I just know that on Day 1, if three players all come together and try to get you to follow their plan, you never, never, never do it.

I'm new here, and maybe you cats do stuff like this all the time. But I've sen Doggin try to pull stuff like this before, and he's never innocent when he does.

Has JVoR ever come up with a plan like this before? You tell me...becuase it looks like an obvious case of communication to me.

And if they are willing to risk being out in the open like that, the payoff must be pretty sweet.

Doggin knows somehting we don't, he's even said as much. it's just that I'm pretty sure he's holding back the part where he and his team win on some obscure condition.

Anyway, I object 100% to this plan, and any other plan that three players push at this hard and work at together like this.

No good will come of it.

When do three players "come together" for a plan like this as scum? How would that benefit them? Any "accidental" lynching of you where you turn up innocent would lead to our demise quickly, especially if the town has a vig to speed up the process.

You're the experienced mafia guy, yet all you can come up with is some obscure, "he and his team win on some obscure condition." I hope the townies here all realize that Bleedin wouldn't go thru all the trouble to put this 17 player Star Wars game into action just to have scum win on some weird technicality on D1. C'mon, man, you are seriously reaching.

It should be obvious to everyone that the real problem you have here is the fear of being exposed as scum this fast. That's gotta suck for you.

[HessStation]

If you're town, DPR's resistance to this plan should be blaring sirens in your head.

On the games first day, with a scum team of (probably) four against a town of 13, what could Doggin and JVoR possibly unleash tonight that would cripple the town so much that it would be worth it to them as scum to get themselves lynched on consecutive days afterwards.

Can you really think of anything? Seen an example of something like that anywhere?

The idea of them (or us) being scum makes no sense. You should really know this.

You know it's not 4 vs 13. there is obviously loner roles here too ie SK etc.

[slats]

This is the current vote count. Crusher is no longer on it, and I've inhereted the three amigos.

This is such obvious collusion that I can't believe it.

I'm guessing that they just need somebody to set their plan into motion, and they follow the trail of whomever they are most likely to get lynched.

Creative? Yes. Trustworthy? I'm going to have to go with "no" on that one...

Again, please explain to the class how three members of a scum team could expose themselves like this on day one and expect to win?

More likely is that what you have here is three townies out of 13 who just happen to see the game the same way at this point in time.

[Dan.]

With JVoR getting lynched no matter what as a way to verify his results, I do not see the difference it makes in who he investigates. It seems most of us feel that it's very likely at least one of Doggin/DPR is scum.

Doggin innocent + JVoR innocent = let's take a careful look at DPR. DPR innocent + JVoR innocent = let's take a careful look at Doggin. Getting a guilty result on either one is great for us.

I'm saying this also keeping in mind it's completely possible that JVoR is innocent and Doggin is guilty. I don't know if we should necessarily link them because it's plausible that JVoR hatched this plan, is mistaken about Doggin, and Doggin is taking advantage of it. It's a possibility.

So I don't really see the arguments for one over the other. Maybe I am just exhausted, though. And the current plan seems satisfactory to me. As was pointed out to me, something shady happening at L-1 clearly points to JVoR as scum.

[SMC]

This is the current vote count. Crusher is no longer on it, and I've inhereted the three amigos.

This is such obvious collusion that I can't believe it.

I'm guessing that they just need somebody to set their plan into motion, and they follow the trail of whomever they are most likely to get lynched.

Creative? Yes. Trustworthy? I'm going to have to go with "no" on that one...

I'll be the fourth amigo.

Unvote: Doggin

Vote: DPR

It's either scummy or ineptitude to use the circular argument that since someone is voting for you they must be scum.

[slats]

You know it's not 4 vs 13. there is obviously loner roles here too ie SK etc.

Yeah, but it would be the scum team of four against everyone else, regardless of any third parties.

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count

JVoR (2) - JiF, Klecko

Doggin (3) - Sharrow, DPR, brettw4rd

AVM (1) - Pac

Dan X (1) - CTM

DPR (4) - JVOR, Doggin, slats, SMC

Vicious (1) - Vicious

With 17 players remaining, it takes 9 votes to feed the Sarlacc.

[Integrity28]

With JVoR getting lynched no matter what as a way to verify his results, I do not see the difference it makes in who he investigates. It seems most of us feel that it's very likely at least one of Doggin/DPR is scum.

Doggin innocent + JVoR innocent = let's take a careful look at DPR. DPR innocent + JVoR innocent = let's take a careful look at Doggin. Getting a guilty result on either one is great for us.

I'm saying this also keeping in mind it's completely possible that JVoR is innocent and Doggin is guilty. I don't know if we should necessarily link them because it's plausible that JVoR hatched this plan, is mistaken about Doggin, and Doggin is taking advantage of it. It's a possibility.

So I don't really see the arguments for one over the other. Maybe I am just exhausted, though. And the current plan seems satisfactory to me. As was pointed out to me, something shady happening at L-1 clearly points to JVoR as scum.

Here is the thing... we're going to have someone at L2 when JVOR gives us his "report" and I'd bet the house that no matter what, the report on whoever we investigate will be SCUM.

Do you really think these 3, who have been relentless in pushing this plan to this point, are going to turn around and say "Okay, lynch JVOR now... instead of the player that just turned up on the report as scum."

Personally, I think we had Doggin at L1 already... if we do the investigation on Doggin we stand to gain just as much knowledge as if we would investigating DPR at this point... however, we will make the terms of the investigation our own, by targeting one of the 3 pushing the plan... as opposed to targeting the 1 person they singled out.

This way, if Doggin turns up scum from the report... we can just lynch him, instead of facing the conundrum of choosing between the report victim and JVOR.

The only problem with this? Do you, or does anyone else, trust JVOR to be truthful with the results of the investigation at this point?

[HessStation]

Again, please explain to the class how three members of a scum team could expose themselves like this on day one and expect to win?

.

SO WHY DON'T WE JUST HAAAAVE JVOR INVESTIGATE DOGGIN AAAAAND FIND OUT??????????

[slats]

Doggin innocent + JVoR innocent = let's take a careful look at DPR. DPR innocent + JVoR innocent = let's take a careful look at Doggin. Getting a guilty result on either one is great for us.

Even getting an innocent is a plus.

But if you're looking for a guilty verdict, you're probably much more likely to get it from the player most resistant to the idea of being investigated. Doggin's inviting it, DPR is doing everything in his power to derail it. I'd think that the only people who wouldn't want to be investigated are the ones who'll turn up scum, no?

[DPR]

I'll be the fourth amigo.

Unvote: Doggin

Vote: DPR

It's either scummy or ineptitude to use the circular argument that since someone is voting for you they must be scum.

I'm asking this with the upmost sincerity:

I post two vote counts spanning over 40 pages in an effort to show that three players are working together and push a plan, and you vote for me and say that it's a circular argumnet and that I'm saying that they are scum because they voted for me?

I am thoroughly confused -

The only people that work together and try to push plans are mafia.

I don't know what BG has set up - maybe they get to recruit someone if they achie something on day 1 - give Doggin a challenge, you know? He loves that stuff.

But I've made several posts showing clear, fact based evidence, and they get misconstrued as leading or scummy.

Why would you say that about circular arguments when I never said that?

[StraightCash]

SO WHY DON'T WE JUST HAAAAVE JVOR INVESTIGATE DOGGIN AAAAAND FIND OUT??????????

This. This is getting out of hand. Less talk, more action..

[slats]

Do you really think these 3, who have been relentless in pushing this plan to this point, are going to turn around and say "Okay, lynch JVOR now... instead of the player that just turned up on the report as scum."

Yes.

JVoR will have to be lynched to prove that he's town, and that we can trust his investigation. I believe he's town, but I don't know it. I'll know it when I read his death scene.

[Integrity28]

Even getting an innocent is a plus.

But if you're looking for a guilty verdict, you're probably much more likely to get it from the player most resistant to the idea of being investigated. Doggin's inviting it, DPR is doing everything in his power to derail it. I'd think that the only people who wouldn't want to be investigated are the ones who'll turn up scum, no?

For every 1 post where Doggin "invites" it. The 3 of you offer up about 10 posts herding the sheep toward DPR.

Your bias has become so strong in this discussion, it is impossible to truly consider your point of view.

Considering its day one, and you want us to believe you aren't working together... you really went all in.

[DPR]

Again, please explain to the class how three members of a scum team could expose themselves like this on day one and expect to win?

More likely is that what you have here is three townies out of 13 who just happen to see the game the same way at this point in time.

Dude, seriosuly, after all of the role names you guys have dropped, you could be doing anything. And as I said before, the payoff must be pretty sweet for three players to do anythign like this.

The rest of the game is wiped out. I'm wiped out. You guys are on this like dogs in heat, and all we know for certain is that you want this played a specific way, so you keep on pushing it.

No random group of three innocents would do that. No way.

[HessStation]

Even getting an innocent is a plus.

But if you're looking for a guilty verdict, you're probably much more likely to get it from the player most resistant to the idea of being investigated. Doggin's inviting it, DPR is doing everything in his power to derail it. I'd think that the only people who wouldn't want to be investigated are the ones who'll turn up scum, no?

Quite possibly because DPR is working independently...for himself so to speak.

[slats]

I'm asking this with the upmost sincerity:

I post two vote counts spanning over 40 pages in an effort to show that three players are working together and push a plan, and you vote for me and say that it's a circular argumnet and that I'm saying that they are scum because they voted for me?

I am thoroughly confused -

The only people that work together and try to push plans are mafia.

I don't know what BG has set up - maybe they get to recruit someone if they achie something on day 1 - give Doggin a challenge, you know? He loves that stuff.

But I've made several posts showing clear, fact based evidence, and they get misconstrued as leading or scummy.

Why would you say that about circular arguments when I never said that?

And yet in all, you haven't explained how a scum team could reveal three members so blatantly this early and still hope to win. What mod designs a 17 person game with a booby-trap installed so scum can win on day one?

For all your protestations, they just don't make logical sense.

[DPR]

And yet in all, you haven't explained how a scum team could reveal three members so blatantly this early and still hope to win. What mod designs a 17 person game with a booby-trap installed so scum can win on day one?

For all your protestations, they just don't make logical sense.

Well, given that I'm not scum, I can't really answer that.

But I'll tell you that I've modded many games with special win conditions and bonuses for play. Doggin will even back me up on that one.

Actually, modding is what I'm really known for. Well, that, and my sparkling personality.

[Integrity28]

And yet in all, you haven't explained how a scum team could reveal three members so blatantly this early and still hope to win. What mod designs a 17 person game with a booby-trap installed so scum can win on day one?

For all your protestations, they just don't make logical sense.

Anything suggested at this point would be speculative at best.... but a conversion power would facilitate the type of risk you are describing.

[Dan.]

Here is the thing... we're going to have someone at L2 when JVOR gives us his "report" and I'd bet the house that no matter what, the report on whoever we investigate will be SCUM.

Do you really think these 3, who have been relentless in pushing this plan to this point, are going to turn around and say "Okay, lynch JVOR now... instead of the player that just turned up on the report as scum."

Personally, I think we had Doggin at L1 already... if we do the investigation on Doggin we stand to gain just as much knowledge as if we would investigating DPR at this point... however, we will make the terms of the investigation our own, by targeting one of the 3 pushing the plan... as opposed to targeting the 1 person they singled out.

This way, if Doggin turns up scum from the report... we can just lynch him, instead of facing the conundrum of choosing between the report victim and JVOR.

The only problem with this? Do you, or does anyone else, trust JVOR to be truthful with the results of the investigation at this point?

I would hope so, and if they tried anything else, I think the rest of us should have enough common sense not to listen! And worst case, if JVoR says someone is scum but they do all this nonsense and we end up lynching a townie instead of JVoR, I think we've got all our scum nicely lined up for the future.

I can see pros and cons with investigating Doggin over DPR and vice versa. If either one comes up innocent there could be wifom questions and wondering if they're the godfather. I can talk myself into believing either one is scummy/innocent.

JVoR is the one out of all this that seems most likely to be innocent. Considering anything that goes wrong with the plan directly reflects back on him, and the plan hinges on him getting lynched.

Now, I just thought of this, though ... is it possible he could be a village idiot taking us for a ride??

[CTM]

Does anyone actually think that jvor is going to come back with anythign but guilty on DPR at this point? (either cause he is, or jvor is lying)

It's seems like a pointless exercise tbh

[slats]

Quite possibly because DPR is working independently...for himself so to speak.

Often independents come up as "town" on investigations. But if he's a third party, finding out and killing him is still a good move.

[Integrity28]

I would hope so, and if they tried anything else, I think the rest of us should have enough common sense not to listen! And worst case, if JVoR says someone is scum but they do all this nonsense and we end up lynching a townie instead of JVoR, I think we've got all our scum nicely lined up for the future.

I can see pros and cons with investigating Doggin over DPR and vice versa. If either one comes up innocent there could be wifom questions and wondering if they're the godfather. I can talk myself into believing either one is scummy/innocent.

JVoR is the one out of all this that seems most likely to be innocent. Considering anything that goes wrong with the plan directly reflects back on him, and the plan hinges on him getting lynched.

Now, I just thought of this, though ... is it possible he could be a village idiot taking us for a ride??

From Wiki: Sometimes, successful lynching of the "Village Idiot" results in the mafia being able to kill two people that night.

Its possible. That would be HUGE for the scum team.

[HessStation]

Look, can we just vote who we want investigated?????

Doggin was already at L1.

I want Doggin. brett wants Doggin. Integ, you want Doggin, right? Who else?

CTM, you have to step up here a little bit, I'm agreeing with on a lot of your opinions but you're not taking any action.

Everyone, no more talk, Who do you want investigated?

If it's DPR I'm fine with that too btw. But just start giving a direct name to JVOR for the love of God.

Doggin has 3 (as I'm assuming Integ is in)

[slats]

Anything suggested at this point would be speculative at best.... but a conversion power would facilitate the type of risk you are describing.

Revealing three of a four member scum team is never going to be a recipe for scum success.

[DPR]

So basically, killing me is the good move here - no matter what, no matter the rulles about the plan your team has made and broken, or the lies that you three have spread about what your willing to do and never do it.

This is crazy.

[HessStation]

Often independents come up as "town" on investigations. But if he's a third party, finding out and killing him is still a good move.

I get that but I was giving you a reason why he wouldn't want to be investigated.

[Dan.]

Does anyone actually think that jvor is going to come back with anythign but guilty on DPR at this point? (either cause he is, or jvor is lying)

It's seems like a pointless exercise tbh

Like I said, isn't it possible that JVoR is town with really bad instincts, and Doggin is scum? It's certainly happened before where JVoR convinced himself early on that someone was innocent. Hehe, I'm pretty sure it was you.

[Integrity28]

Does anyone actually think that jvor is going to come back with anythign but guilty on DPR at this point? (either cause he is, or jvor is lying)

It's seems like a pointless exercise tbh

I just made the same point to Danx.

I honestly don't think we can trust an investigation of either DPR or Doggin.

On top of that, if Danx is onto something with VJOR being the village idiot... then we are double screwed if we go through with any investigation at all and lynch JVOR afterwards.

[DPR]

Revealing three of a four member scum team is never going to be a recipe for scum success.

Why don't you ask Doggin about the game he was modding just last week. The scum team had to die to win. What do you know about that?

[JiFtheOracle]

Go figure, my #1 target, JVOR does another untimely completely unnecessary reveal early in the game. For what?

Dont know what to make of it and dont know what to make of the 2 guys who are 100% onboard. I mean, offcourse Doggin's onboard, but why slats who many of us have already coupled with JVOR. Ugh. What a cluster ****.

And how badass is my muffin top. He's so ****ing badass. Vic is just a wanna be. Dr. Crushlove knows best.

I'm sticking on JVOR. I dont buy it, it doesnt make sense and he had no reason to reveal this role that doesnt really seem all that impressive. His arrogance has led to this and thats never good for the town.

[SMC]

Why don't you ask Doggin about the game he was modding just last week. The scum team had to die to win. What do you know about that?

Bleedin' Green is the mod, not Doggin.

If Doggin modded this game your point would have a semblance of relevance. Now, it has none.

[DPR]

Bah - this just goes around and around. I'm checking out for a while.