WrestleMafia Game Thread

[slats]

regarding I28, I have seen and been Mafia Mason before, so calling a scummy play on someone that has claimed Mason doesn't ring any bells with me as one member of the team has no way to know the alignment of the other. When I was going aftter Doggin for his claim, I28 called me down for it and it turns out he was right to do so. He's not voting the scummy play, just calling it what it is. I'm still good with my vote on you, Slats.

We haven't seen it here. Not discounting it as a possibility, but we haven't seen it. SMC seemed to be trying to draw attention to himself earlier, but since that reveal has been playing more like he usually does as town. I'm definitely inclined to believe them to be a straight town mason team at this time.

You initially voted me to put pressure on me, despite the fact that we seem to've agreed on a lot of the game's play so far. Anything I haven't answered for you yet in my responses to Dr. Chimpass?

[AVM]

@JC -- I've been a miller and knew it. Vics Lost game. Doggin's referred to a death miller before, but I've never seen one actually used.

You offered your thoughts on me here, which is fine, but why mention JIF and not comment on his play... I've put a lot of time into questioning his play, there is plenty to respond to.

Thoughts?

I don't even know what happened there, really thought I had put my thoughts on him, because I think the way the two of you have been viewed the past few games is sort of similar.

Anyways...

JiF: Has got a lot of heat early in every game this season, though not as much in the first game where he ended up being cop. He actually seems more like JiF of last season than any other game thus far to me. Admittedly with yesterdays cluster ****, I don't feel like I got strong reads on anyone. Everythings just all over the place. I actually feel better about him (and I28, which is why I grouped you two together), than most but I don't think that means much right now.

[AVM]

You offered your thoughts on me here, which is fine, but why mention JIF and not comment on his play... I've put a lot of time into questioning his play, there is plenty to respond to.

Thoughts?

And as for exactly what you've brought up about him, I'd like to address that exactly but it's going to be a bit -- I was really more sifting back through trying not to get behind after that big post

[Pac]

I'm willing to buy Vic as scum.. I wasn't fond of his grandiose entrance and chiding post at the heels of doggins death yesterday:

Wow. What. The. ****.

I don't blame J80 for the shot he took considering the pressure he was receiving from some of our more "veteran" players.Did we really have that much information to glean off of a brett lynch? I'm sorry if I fail to see it. Maybe it's because I'm not a card carrying member of the church of Doggin where I drop to my knees and eat up everything he has to offer. It's ok to think differently from him people, it doesn't mean you're scum. I don't want to turn this into another tirade but I just think we need to get away from this kind of behavior. Now that J80 has shot he's roleless am I wrong in thinking that? Anyways this is a gigantic cluster****. I honestly feel bad for BG because I dont' believe he wanted to have a game where every day there's 2348230489230 reveals.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnd I took too long. Awesome.

I'm still not sure who he was talking to or what he was talking about... Felt like bad community theater acting. "Feel bad for BG".. what?

a bit later on he latched on to the menstruating JiF's whining about me..

Stop acting like a know it all who is playing a perfect game. You suck just as much as everyone else does. God you are douche bag.

This. FTMFW

You are a legendary douche. Thats for sure.

BANG BANG!

My take on this nonsense was that JiF's feelings were inexplicably hurt and Vic viewed that as an opportunity to try and get me to have a "meltdown"... I'm sure scum would like for me to get back into the lynch pool and what better way than for me to lash out at everyone.

Since that exchange Vic has calmed significantly and started playing a clean game again.

I'll

Unvote

Vote Vic

but I still don't like JVoR or the fact that Crusher has successfully faded into the background.. which at 420 lbs is no small feat.

Look up legend in the dictionary and you'll find me.

[Jetscode1]

I'm not just about "poo flinging." My struggle is always tempering my instinctive read on things with a logical read on it. I'm trying to do that now... and coming away from it with serious doubts about SMC, who is typically one to put together very "smart" cases.

The way he has cased me, does not fit that description at all.

The problem with the pushback on SMC is: I thought he did a decent job with his post...looked like a detailed listing of voting trends...you posted your objections because he chose to omit the late forming train on Doggin when we were under a deadline...I get that...but he ackowledged that ommission straight up.

As far as the rest of the discussion...the finger pointing at the mason just muddies the water...and makes you look defensive...the possibility exists one or both could be scum...although unlikely...maybe if one of the masons are not NK tomorrow night we can discuss but at this time there are other suspects that need our attention.

[war ensemble]

I'm liking JIF and I28 as my scum contenders right now. I'm still catching up but I think he's been leading us on a wild goose chase here...

[Vicious89x]

@ PAC. I was responding on the fact that you chided the town for the lynch and acted all knowing. Anyways is what it is. I actually like you, you can grate on people but I do think you're a cool person. There are others I don't feel that way about.

As for the

Doggin thing SMC jumped all over the chosen ones post in Brett and was on that train due to doggin. That is one I clearly remember.

[Pac]

@ PAC. I was responding on the fact that you chided the town for the lynch and acted all knowing. Anyways is what it is. I actually like you, you can grate on people but I do think you're a cool person. There are others I don't feel that way about.

As for the

Doggin thing SMC jumped all over the chosen ones post in Brett and was on that train due to doggin. That is one I clearly remember.

have mercy..

I think all you guys except JiF are cool.. I just like you for scum right now.. If I'm wrong it won't be the last time.

[Vicious89x]

have mercy..

I think all you guys except JiF are cool.. I just like you for scum right now.. If I'm wrong it won't be the last time.

That's fine, just saying that whatever I did was in jest and for lolz. Not to piss you off. And that your posturing after the lynch and then accusing me of the same felt hypocritical.

[JiFtheOracle]

I hate posting from the phone but I'm reading to keep from having a 2 hour catch up.

@PAC I was kidding dude just busting your balls bored during dead time its amazing how serious people have taken my antics this year.

@ those who find me scummy. I don't really get it. I'm genuinely scum hunting and theorizing to talk and help not confuse. Sucks the one game I start to focus I'm getting heat but this what u get for playing the way I do. Sorry if My theories dont make sense or u find them anything more then just trying to figure things out but im done defending anything ive done because I'm town and it's a waste of time. I've said all I can about my theories my defense won't change.

In case your wondering, the charity event was a success.

[JiFtheOracle]

don't know how to bold from phone but

Vote Vic

2 reasons. He's coasting and very dangerous as scum when he does this. And it's also my experience that when some is quick to comment on the decision for nk by saying "interesting choice" it's a scum confusion tactic. I'll elaborate more when I'm not usingthe phone but I'm not getting too many other reads

[Bleedin Green]

Official Vote Count

Jets Things (4) - slats, Vic, JVOR, AVM

Aemon (1) - Dan

JiF (1) - Jetscode

Dan (1) - Sharrow

slats (2) - Aemon, I28

I28 (1) - SMC

Vicious (2) - Pac, JiF

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch

[Jetscode1]

I hate posting from the phone but I'm reading to keep from having a 2 hour catch up.

@PAC I was kidding dude just busting your balls bored during dead time its amazing how serious people have taken my antics this year.

@ those who find me scummy. I don't really get it. I'm genuinely scum hunting and theorizing to talk and help not confuse. Sucks the one game I start to focus I'm getting heat but this what u get for playing the way I do. Sorry if My theories dont make sense or u find them anything more then just trying to figure things out but im done defending anything ive done because I'm town and it's a waste of time. I've said all I can about my theories my defense won't change.

In case your wondering, the charity event was a success.

Thats twice JiF has chosen not to respond...my observations on JiF are as follows:

At first he discussed how he did not want to test Doggin's +1 ability he wanted to lynch...then he denies ever suggesting a lynch.

A boldface lie...

Next he states Doggin's ability is just not valuable...then the very next sentence he states Doggin will be NKd.

If the ability is not valuable why would the scum NK him?

Later on Brett calls him out for planting the seeds for a WIFOM on Doggin using the same intel.

Check out my post @ 1760 if you want to look further at his quotes.

Since he won't answer...I'd like to get some feedback...can the rest of the town please offer some thoughts on this...

Scum please refrain from commenting. thanks in advance...

[Dan.]

I don't think CTM was a good target for scum last night, he was hinting at a bomb role, I doubt a whole scum team could have missed it. If they left him live, they would have had another townie killed when he was lynched by letting one of us hammer him; so I think they must have had another reason for killing him. dan, avm, and jyoR come to mind being probably the biggest targets of his attention towards the end.

CTM picked up on this early yesterday and it kind of got lost after she brushed it off, but Dan was covering her a$$ a lot when pressuring people. So I'm going to go with that cause I figured it to be a scum tell after seeing her do it an aweful lot during the Star Wars game.

vote: Dan.

The first half of your post makes sense. CTM was wailing about having certain people on his train, so it's possible the scum team viewed that as more of a threat to them than helping them out. Which does throw suspicion on us. Otherwise, it should be much better for them to keep CTM alive.

It's definitely fair to comment on the wishy-washiness of Dan's posts because sure, it might be an okay way to cover your butt as scum. It just felt like a particularly clean Day 1. Scum must have been playing pretty cleanly if our top trains all yielded townies, right? Townies were also playing pretty town-like overall, as evidenced by the weak cases being made. It was genuinely difficult to make a strong case on anyone for most of Day 1. The only person not playing really cleanly was SMC, and he's been vouched for. Not going to pretend to see what's not there just to give an appearance of taking a strong stance.

It wasn't until yesterday that things started to get more interesting, with more people coming out of the woodwork and more questionable behavior going on ...

[Integrity28]

I'm liking JIF and I28 as my scum contenders right now. I'm still catching up but I think he's been leading us on a wild goose chase here...

Assuming you are saying that I am the one leading you on a wild goose chase... this is a contradictory statement.

The only people I have tried to lead you toward in the recent part of the game are JIF, Slats and/or JVOR. If you look at my play at the end of D1, I wanted to lynch JIF, bad. Still do. On D2 I pointed at the Brett train AND the play of all 3 of those guys (not just how they placed votes) and guessed that at least one of them is scum. If you say you think JIF is scum, which you just did, then how is me leading you toward JIF a wild goose chase?

Let me make something perfectly clear as I think I let my words get twisted earlier, I think SMC's case and the position he took in discussing it with me is serving the purpose of scum. I am not saying he is scum, but he is unknowingly making their job easier with that case. Lets all call that case what it is too... its an over-articulated piece of sh*t. The premise of it is, Vic, Pac and I were on 3 trains on D1, therefore we are scum suspects. It conveniently leaves out other people that were on 3 trains, and to me that undermines the enire premise of the case. Furthermore, it doesn't even consider ANY game play, its simply a case based on being on trains. Nothing more to it... excuse me while I meta-game here but, does THAT seem like the type of case SMC comes up with?

Not to me. I think it is flawed and short-sighted. He may not have meant to, but he gave Slats, who IS playing like a scumball a perfect platform to tee off on me right after I named him in my FOS post.

The fact that anyone is looking at that post and saying "good job" is pitiful. Nobody else sees the flaw in it? Nobody? Please.

Now, and understandably, I am being accused of over-defending. I agree. I am over-defending, because I think when a "smart" guy like SMC steps forward in a claimed townie role and starts leading the town towards players I know are town (ME) on the basis of censored "facts" that frame only part of the information at our disposal to suit his needs... then as a townie, I am going to perk up and challenge that case. LOUDLY.

I look at it like this, I might end up getting lynched because I don't always defend myself well... and IF I do I want to make sure the town has plenty to come back to an look at. Hence my over-defending. Look at that worm Slats, he is more than content to keep nudging a case on me (even though he says he wants to ignore me, which is bullsh*t).

[Dan.]

Okay, I'll put this is geek terms for you... you are applauding SMC for an incomplete data set, that ignores the fact that you were also on 3 "large trains."

You are smarter than this... so I can only assume it serves a purpose for you to not question SMC's "data." My guess is the only reason you are applauding SMC's half-assed 'detective' work is because it serves as a vehicle for you to OMGUS case me after I just FOS'ed you. Entirely predictable.

Unvote JIF

Vote Slats

Slats certainly had some curious behavior yesterday, had been feeling good about him until then. Will be interesting to see what happens with Jets Things.

Slats, my initial protest of SMC's data was to make the point it was short sighted... any other conjecture I have offered has been done to support my reasons for protesting his incomplete data set in the first place.

I don't think I'm making any profound accusations, or jumping to any conclusions. I'm simply saying why are we ignoring these other details that were not part of the initial data set? And look at what those details could mean...

Like I said, SMC's post may not have meant to be scummy - but it crossed me that way.

The way you are trying to leverage his FOS of me into your own case on me is the real gem in all this.

Firstly, lists are beautiful (especially when color-coded so nicely). Secondly, it's a little shady to FOS a near-confirmed townie, this early in the game. If SMC & Song mysteriously last until endgame, it would make a lot more sense. But he explained why he included the trains that he did. Pretty sure we all understand that and can factor that in when making decisions. To get a "complete" set of data you would need to include every single vote cast Day 1. (Which Dan used to spend all her time doing in every game she played, but has come to see that most of Day 1 is like shooting darts blindfolded.)

[Integrity28]

The first half of your post makes sense. CTM was wailing about having certain people on his train, so it's possible the scum team viewed that as more of a threat to them than helping them out. Which does throw suspicion on us. Otherwise, it should be much better for them to keep CTM alive.

It's definitely fair to comment on the wishy-washiness of Dan's posts because sure, it might be an okay way to cover your butt as scum. It just felt like a particularly clean Day 1. Scum must have been playing pretty cleanly if our top trains all yielded townies, right? Townies were also playing pretty town-like overall, as evidenced by the weak cases being made. It was genuinely difficult to make a strong case on anyone for most of Day 1. The only person not playing really cleanly was SMC, and he's been vouched for. Not going to pretend to see what's not there just to give an appearance of taking a strong stance.

It wasn't until yesterday that things started to get more interesting, with more people coming out of the woodwork and more questionable behavior going on ...

Lots of words... not saying anything Dan. The most intriguing part of this post is the ellipses at the end indicating that you "might" finally express an opinion... lets have it!

[Dan.]

Thats twice JiF has chosen not to respond...my observations on JiF are as follows:

At first he discussed how he did not want to test Doggin's +1 ability he wanted to lynch...then he denies ever suggesting a lynch.

A boldface lie...

Next he states Doggin's ability is just not valuable...then the very next sentence he states Doggin will be NKd.

If the ability is not valuable why would the scum NK him?

Later on Brett calls him out for planting the seeds for a WIFOM on Doggin using the same intel.

Check out my post @ 1760 if you want to look further at his quotes.

Since he won't answer...I'd like to get some feedback...can the rest of the town please offer some thoughts on this...

Scum please refrain from commenting. thanks in advance...

Haha ...

Have been waiting to see a good explanation from JiF on that contradiction.

Getting a read on JiF after only Day 1 is difficult for Dan because he's prone to treating D1 like a crapshoot. He usually starts making more sense as the game goes on. Hearing from him today should be more helpful.

[war ensemble]

Assuming you are saying that I am the one leading you on a wild goose chase... this is a contradictory statement.

The only people I have tried to lead you toward in the recent part of the game are JIF, Slats and/or JVOR. If you look at my play at the end of D1, I wanted to lynch JIF, bad. Still do. On D2 I pointed at the Brett train AND the play of all 3 of those guys (not just how they placed votes) and guessed that at least one of them is scum. If you say you think JIF is scum, which you just did, then how is me leading you toward JIF a wild goose chase?

You're bad at reading. I never said anything about JIF or me personally. I'm still rereading stuff but that's the general impression that I feel you are leading everyone in a wild goose chase, not me particularly.

[war ensemble]

Lots of words... not saying anything Dan.

lol at you saying this...

[Dan.]

don't know how to bold from phone but

Vote Vic

2 reasons. He's coasting and very dangerous as scum when he does this. And it's also my experience that when some is quick to comment on the decision for nk by saying "interesting choice" it's a scum confusion tactic. I'll elaborate more when I'm not usingthe phone but I'm not getting too many other reads

Agree that he feels a little shadier than usual. The post you're referring to felt like almost word for word what he's said as scum before, hehe. Like Pac said, his posts from yesterday still feel odd and all over the place upon rereading them. Seemed like the outburst came out of nowhere, and his points didn't quite connect.

Could go this route right now ...

But thinking it's more useful to pressure the more inactive choices earlier in the day phase rather than later. Really intrigued by Jets Things and his boom "you fool, bye" post. Let's see if he reappears with anything enlightening.

vote Jets Things

[Integrity28]

Slats certainly had some curious behavior yesterday, had been feeling good about him until then. Will be interesting to see what happens with Jets Things.

I know. Not sure I need to see what happens with Jets Things to be able to look @ Slats play so far... but whatever, I figured you would insulate whatever comments you followed with.

Firstly, lists are beautiful (especially when color-coded so nicely). Secondly, it's a little shady to FOS a near-confirmed townie, this early in the game. If SMC & Song mysteriously last until endgame, it would make a lot more sense. But he explained why he included the trains that he did. Pretty sure we all understand that and can factor that in when making decisions. To get a "complete" set of data you would need to include every single vote cast Day 1. (Which Dan used to spend all her time doing in every game she played, but has come to see that most of Day 1 is like shooting darts blindfolded.)

Not entirely true Dan... he defined his variable as "long trains" and the shortest he showed was a vote of 5. Presumably he would have had to show all trains that reached over 5-6 votes once, or multiple times. THAT would have sufficed as a complete set of data based upon the defined variable of "long trains."

So, no, it would not have required an entire vote history of D1.

In order for his suspicions to hold any value, in my opinion, ALL large trains should have been looked at in order to qualify the rationale he used for picking those names he suspected. Frankly, because he censored the complete set of "long trains" and we don't know the bias that guided that selectivity, he might as well have picked out of a hat. Thus, making all those lists he colored for you nothing more than decoration for a relatively baseless FOS list.

He applied the context of "when the trains occurred" in his rationale for choosing those specific trains, however he didn't apply the context of how the players were playing or rationalizing the votes at the times they were made to how he selected his suspects. That is not SMC play to me. Just showing up on 3 lists, is not something he bases votes on.

I have no problem being named for suspect play... and will gladly answer any questions about the way I've played thus far. Right now, I am being named and voted for because I showed up on 3 trains, and for no other reason but the fact that I questioned the rationale of voting me for showing up on 3 trains. THAT I have a problem with... watching the town be led blindly with bad information... I have a problem with.

[Dan.]

Lots of words... not saying anything Dan. The most intriguing part of this post is the ellipses at the end indicating that you "might" finally express an opinion... lets have it!

Lol. Love you. It does take some time to catch up when certain people use lots of words to repeat themselves over and over.

[Dan.]

I know. Not sure I need to see what happens with Jets Things to be able to look @ Slats play so far... but whatever, I figured you would insulate whatever comments you followed with.

That's not meant to be insulation, commenting on how it could shed light on a potential suspect.

[Integrity28]

I hate posting from the phone but I'm reading to keep from having a 2 hour catch up.

@PAC I was kidding dude just busting your balls bored during dead time its amazing how serious people have taken my antics this year.

@ those who find me scummy. I don't really get it. I'm genuinely scum hunting and theorizing to talk and help not confuse. Sucks the one game I start to focus I'm getting heat but this what u get for playing the way I do. Sorry if My theories dont make sense or u find them anything more then just trying to figure things out but im done defending anything ive done because I'm town and it's a waste of time. I've said all I can about my theories my defense won't change.

In case your wondering, the charity event was a success.

Bravo on the charity event.

I don't take your antics serious... hope you look at my play the same way.

Still not convinced you are town... the "I'm not defending anymore" defense is not something I love.

[Integrity28]

I'm liking JIF and I28 as my scum contenders right now. I'm still catching up but I think he's been leading us on a wild goose chase here...

^^^ Here you said "I'm liking JIF and I28 as my scum contenders." I took this to mean that you suspect me and JIF as scum. How else could it have been interpreted?

The reason I responded the way I did about the wild goose chase, is because most of my time has been spent pursuing JIF. Now you say you suspect me and JIF as scum, and say I'm leading "us" around on a wild goose chase... well, if I'm leading you to someone you just said you suspected, that is a contradiction of sorts to the idea of a wild goose chase now isn't it?

You're bad at reading. I never said anything about JIF or me personally. I'm still rereading stuff but that's the general impression that I feel you are leading everyone in a wild goose chase, not me particularly.

In my response I said "leading you" around but should have said "leading town" around... give me a ******* break, you are splitting hairs over something you should have easily understood. As for the JIF part, I think you said plain as day you suspect him and I. Don't make it my fault if that was not your intent, it is the way you wrote it.

[Integrity28]

Lol. Love you. It does take some time to catch up when certain people use lots of words to repeat themselves over and over.

If these scummy assholes get me lynched... and you aren't one of them... promise you'll come back and re-read all of the lots of words I used to repeat myself over and over eh?

To the rest of you... if she IS one of the scummy assholes... promise me you'll make her death an especially slow and painful one.

[Dan.]

Not entirely true Dan... he defined his variable as "long trains" and the shortest he showed was a vote of 5. Presumably he would have had to show all trains that reached over 5-6 votes once, or multiple times. THAT would have sufficed as a complete set of data based upon the defined variable of "long trains."

So, no, it would not have required an entire vote history of D1.

In order for his suspicions to hold any value, in my opinion, ALL large trains should have been looked at in order to qualify the rationale he used for picking those names he suspected. Frankly, because he censored the complete set of "long trains" and we don't know the bias that guided that selectivity, he might as well have picked out of a hat. Thus, making all those lists he colored for you nothing more than decoration for a relatively baseless FOS list.

He applied the context of "when the trains occurred" in his rationale for choosing those specific trains, however he didn't apply the context of how the players were playing or rationalizing the votes at the times they were made to how he selected his suspects. That is not SMC play to me. Just showing up on 3 lists, is not something he bases votes on.

I have no problem being named for suspect play... and will gladly answer any questions about the way I've played thus far. Right now, I am being named and voted for because I showed up on 3 trains, and for no other reason but the fact that I questioned the rationale of voting me for showing up on 3 trains. THAT I have a problem with... watching the town be led blindly with bad information... I have a problem with.

You have a valid concern about possible bias that is bound to occur when zeroing in on only a few trains. You're right that perhaps to be more accurate, he should have been more specific about exactly why he chose the trains that he did. (Dan used that to her advantage way back the first time as scum, purposely leaving things out. And from a townie's perspective, maybe some of it is subconscious, and you see what you want to see.)

Coming from a nearly-confirmed mason, though, don't think he has anti-town motives behind it. Also, it's doubtful that the town is going to blindly do whatever SMC says just because he is near-confirmed. Most of us are able to take what everyone says with a grain of salt. You've only got one vote on you right now. Maybe more helpful for all of us would be to pull up and add the information that you feel should have been included?

[Dan.]

If these scummy assholes get me lynched... and you aren't one of them... promise you'll come back and re-read all of the lots of words I used to repeat myself over and over eh?

To the rest of you... if she IS one of the scummy assholes... promise me you'll make her death an especially slow and painful one.

Sure. But only if you promise to more seriously consider the idea that scum AND town can play clean on Day 1, and that there's nothing wrong with saying you don't see it if you really don't see it.

[war ensemble]

^^^ Here you said "I'm liking JIF and I28 as my scum contenders." I took this to mean that you suspect me and JIF as scum. How else could it have been interpreted?

The reason I responded the way I did about the wild goose chase, is because most of my time has been spent pursuing JIF. Now you say you suspect me and JIF as scum, and say I'm leading "us" around on a wild goose chase... well, if I'm leading you to someone you just said you suspected, that is a contradiction of sorts to the idea of a wild goose chase now isn't it?

In my response I said "leading you" around but should have said "leading town" around... give me a ******* break, you are splitting hairs over something you should have easily understood. As for the JIF part, I think you said plain as day you suspect him and I. Don't make it my fault if that was not your intent, it is the way you wrote it.

It is a wild goose chase because you've been pursuing every damn person that comes into your head. I thought I made that clear when I said I'm not talking about me or JiF but IN GENERAL. POR LO GENERAL. This is "something you should have easily understood" but apparently bears repeating ad nauseaum.

[war ensemble]

Also, come Monday I'm not going to be nearly as active any more. I <3 school!!

[slats]

At first he discussed how he did not want to test Doggin's +1 ability he wanted to lynch...then he denies ever suggesting a lynch.

A boldface lie...

Next he states Doggin's ability is just not valuable...then the very next sentence he states Doggin will be NKd.

If the ability is not valuable why would the scum NK him?

Later on Brett calls him out for planting the seeds for a WIFOM on Doggin using the same intel.

Check out my post @ 1760 if you want to look further at his quotes.

Since he won't answer...I'd like to get some feedback...can the rest of the town please offer some thoughts on this...

Scum please refrain from commenting. thanks in advance...

The first point is the most interesting. He does suggest lynching Doggin in this post. And then denies that he did in this one a day and a half later. It's worth getting an answer on.

In the second one, he claims Doggin's power is weak, then suggests he'll be NK'd in back-to-back lines. I don't understand that logic, either, and said at the time that I figured scum would let him live and let the town worry about him. But I disagree with townies about the next logical step all the time when I'm also a townie. The fact that he made those statements back-to-back make them seem less scummy to me, though, to be honest. Contradicting himself a day apart (like he did on suggesting/denying lynching Doggin) carries more scum-tell weight with me.

[Jetscode1]

The first point is the most interesting. He does suggest lynching Doggin in this post. And then denies that he did in this one a day and a half later. It's worth getting an answer on.

In the second one, he claims Doggin's power is weak, then suggests he'll be NK'd in back-to-back lines. I don't understand that logic, either, and said at the time that I figured scum would let him live and let the town worry about him. But I disagree with townies about the next logical step all the time when I'm also a townie. The fact that he made those statements back-to-back make them seem less scummy to me, though, to be honest. Contradicting himself a day apart (like he did on suggesting/denying lynching Doggin) carries more scum-tell weight with me.

1. Thanks for feedback...the lie is the most damming...and I know we debated "lynch all liars" ad nauseum after the clue game ended...but I do not see the town value in his lie...would like to see him explain the value of it.

2. We can agree to disagree on whether the scum would target Doggin after that reveal...I get it when players have disagreements over the next logical step...as you made clear...you think its weak and the scum would leave Doggin for us to deal with...but...if for a player to assert that Doggin's power is weak why would they later argue the scum would NK him for a weak power...the fallacy in that logic is beyond illogical.

3. Mucho appreciato the opportunity to discuss...look forward to some more perspectives from the rest of the town...thanks

[Integrity28]

It is a wild goose chase because you've been pursuing every damn person that comes into your head. I thought I made that clear when I said I'm not talking about me or JiF but IN GENERAL. POR LO GENERAL. This is "something you should have easily understood" but apparently bears repeating ad nauseaum.

If "in general" was your meaning, then you should have worded it as such.

As for "every damn person." I've actually only heavily "gone after" you and JIF. Apart from that I've talked about not liking the play of Slats, Doggin very early on, JVOR, and SMC.

In each case, I've given good reason for either going after, or at least suspecting, those individuals.

[Integrity28]

You have a valid concern about possible bias that is bound to occur when zeroing in on only a few trains. You're right that perhaps to be more accurate, he should have been more specific about exactly why he chose the trains that he did. (Dan used that to her advantage way back the first time as scum, purposely leaving things out. And from a townie's perspective, maybe some of it is subconscious, and you see what you want to see.)

Coming from a nearly-confirmed mason, though, don't think he has anti-town motives behind it. Also, it's doubtful that the town is going to blindly do whatever SMC says just because he is near-confirmed. Most of us are able to take what everyone says with a grain of salt. You've only got one vote on you right now. Maybe more helpful for all of us would be to pull up and add the information that you feel should have been included?

SMC might not have scum motives behind his case... but for the reasons I've stated at length, I think it has serious holes in it. So watching people say "good work" and "I agree" about the people he FOS'ed and then following his lead on it by voting me, or Vic, is damning in my opinion to those following him. See what I'm saying... ?