Jets' addition of Josh McCown bodes well for young quarterbacks

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Hell no. I would rather be owner, which would require me to come into a ton of money.

Until you tell me it's not possible, I expect you to own the Jets one day.

[Pcola]

On 3/21/2017 at 11:44 AM, Gas2No99 said:

Hack can make Pre-Snap reads of the defense while Petty - coming out of Baylor's sandlot playbook - improved in playing Madden thanks to his rookie year of learning about opposing defense and keys. 

Hack is more "Pro-Ready" than Petty is in the MENTAL aspect of the game.

With the small exception of throwing the football, you are correct.

[Big Blocker]

3 hours ago, TheSage said:

I don't know whether Petty or Hackenberg are the QBs of the future here but bringing in a McCown is not going to hurt their development like a qb who wants and expects to start. If anything, McC is auditioning for a post career coaching spot with an occasional game appearance. No knocks on the signing, cheap and experienced and doesn't"t seem like a boat rocker.

Again, I get that McCown is not going to HURT their development.   But it does nothing to improve their development, so it is only a good thing he was signed if one assumes or has concluded that Petty and/or Hack are near ready to be starters, near enough that is that one or the other or both can be the starting Qb at some point.  As noted by JiF the whole mentoring thing is overrated, which I will speak to separately.

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I hope I'm wrong but I see this as pretty cut and dry.  They didnt pay him to come here and mentor.  The idea of mentoring is stupid to begin with and the idea you want these kids to learn anything from sh*tty journeyman like Fitz and McCown is even more stupid. 

 

On one hand no doubt there is a benefit to watching a vet player who knows how to handle himself on and off the field, and to succeed on it.  But for the most part the idea that a younger player will get better as a player is really up to him and the CS.  The CS is paid to do that.  Paying a Qb who clearly has mediocre stats and production $6mil to "mentor" younger players is not what is going on.  At best there may be some marginal benefit, but the real reason you pay that kind of money is to play the game and hopefully succeed.

We hear all the time about how this or that player is a great teammate, but even then it's more about such player contributing to the team's success with his performance and making the day to day easier to get through, than it is about literally showing a younger player how to play the game.  Knowing how to play the game is much more the job of the CS, watching game film, practicing, than it is about mentoring.  Mentoring here is overrated.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

They took a 2nd round pick on a QB.  Play him.  Let him get all the 1st team reps, let him prepare as a starter and put the mother ****er to the fire.  Who cares if he sucks?  You're the a$$hole who wasted a 2nd round pick on him.  And guess what, Josh McCown sucks out loud anyway, so what's the difference? 

I assumed when you said, "I'ts not my belief that McCown was brought here to win games" that you were implying he was here to mentor.  Otherwise, why is he here?  Who gives a **** about minimum levels of competence?  What good does that do for anyone?  Besides, I'm not even sure McCown is that.  He's really ******* bad.  And again, if you dont believe that Petty and Hack are going to belong in the league, than McCown is your starter and the Jets are going to try and win games with him as the starter.  I promise you, Todd Bowles wants to win as many games as he can.

It's all moronic.  The strategy should have been to give Hack every single chance he had to prepare to be the starter.  If it's preseason time and he's an absolute sh*t bag, you could go get yourself another 47 year old QB with minimum competence.  But that's not what they did...they brought him here to start.

I'm not sure I agree that winning games is the best strategy for Todd Bowles to keep his job.  I think, again, I do not know, but he has a stronger case to keep his job if they are looking at the #1 pick than if they're looking at #11.  My argument all along was that you either fire them both this offseason, or you give them a 4th season, because there's no realistic path to success this year.

I think the Jets care about minimal levels of competence.  Again, it's fine and good for us to talk about rebuild and even a tank job here on the internet, but if these two players suck, you're asking 51 other guys to sacrifice their season, their health, and possibly their livelihood for two guys.  I imagine other players can tolerate a young QB if he shows anything, but probably not if he doesn't.  Further, I'd imagine that Jets Management needs something more than 16 weeks of complete failure at the QB position when they're taking huge sums of money from season ticket holders and others.  I'm not sure they can just punt the season entirely.

My point then, was that he's here for insurance.  It was suggested to sign "no one," and I'll ask you, in the past decade, has an NFL team ever started a season with 3 QBs totaling 6 appearances, 4 starts, and 133 passes?  Because, that's what Petty/Hack/Draft would look like.  If I'm right in my speculation that it doesn't happen, the league obviously cares about minimum competence.

Lastly, McCown's arrival should change nothing about Hack's ability to prepare to be the starter.  Hack should go out and play his best football, and we'll see what that looks like.  This is the same argument as how we screwed up Sanchez by bringing in Tebow.  Do you think a real QB would care if you brought that circus into town?  Not likely.  They'd be preparing for the season and playing football.  Sanchez's demise had nothing to do with Tebow, and Hackenberg's success or failure will be irrelevant to McCown.

[Lil Woody]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm not sure I agree that winning games is the best strategy for Todd Bowles to keep his job.  I think, again, I do not know, but he has a stronger case to keep his job if they are looking at the #1 pick than if they're looking at #11.  My argument all along was that you either fire them both this offseason, or you give them a 4th season, because there's no realistic path to success this year.

I think the Jets care about minimal levels of competence.  Again, it's fine and good for us to talk about rebuild and even a tank job here on the internet, but if these two players suck, you're asking 51 other guys to sacrifice their season, their health, and possibly their livelihood for two guys.  I imagine other players can tolerate a young QB if he shows anything, but probably not if he doesn't.  Further, I'd imagine that Jets Management needs something more than 16 weeks of complete failure at the QB position when they're taking huge sums of money from season ticket holders and others.  I'm not sure they can just punt the season entirely.

My point then, was that he's here for insurance.  It was suggested to sign "no one," and I'll ask you, in the past decade, has an NFL team ever started a season with 3 QBs totaling 6 appearances, 4 starts, and 133 passes?  Because, that's what Petty/Hack/Draft would look like.  If I'm right in my speculation that it doesn't happen, the league obviously cares about minimum competence.

Lastly, McCown's arrival should change nothing about Hack's ability to prepare to be the starter.  Hack should go out and play his best football, and we'll see what that looks like.  This is the same argument as how we screwed up Sanchez by bringing in Tebow.  Do you think a real QB would care if you brought that circus into town?  Not likely.  They'd be preparing for the season and playing football.  Sanchez's demise had nothing to do with Tebow, and Hackenberg's success or failure will be irrelevant to McCown.

All great points. But they are coming from various points of view.  NFL front office, players, season ticket holders.... but not the one person that matters in this case.  Our sh*t owner, because ultimately that's who sets the tone and direction.  And he shouldn't care about any of those other points of view, just what is best for his franchise. Now I know he's a tool and it's absurd to expect competence from him, but here it is.

I personally wouldn't tie Bowles and McCags together.  You pick one and go with them.  This 2 people as peers reporting to the imbecile owner is a nightmare. Then whoever you pick to lead your team for you (and Woody can go the F back to the UK and rot there) has to be given the authority to hire the next coach or GM. Macc would be the obvious play imo.  Bowles is proving to be a terrible hire.

As for the how can you ask 51 guys to tank?  Simple I don't ask. I don't tell them anything at all actually.  I set the expectation that they give their best effort and I do what I can to pull the rug out from under them by making my GM stack the deck and have my coach lose the games.  If Bowels doesn't like that, he's fired and my interim HC gets the nod (and a sack of cash) and blows the games for me. 

And if the League office doesn't like it I couldn't give a sh*t. Because what have they ever done for me? Sit on their hands during my stadium negotiations w. NYC? Allow our division to be owned by a team that has been caught multiple times for cheating and they sweep it under the rug, burn evidence and hand out some weak ass punishment to slap their wrists? I don't care if they don't appreciate me punting the season. It's a legitimate strategy based on the system THEY created for a league THEY made entirely about one position. They can jump up and down screaming you can't do this...it's not right...I'd just shrug and ask them what they were talking about and deny everything while blatantly doing whatever the hell I felt like. Let them discuss it in the offseason and bitch. I'm getting my FQB.  And what...some fans will be pissed? LOL. Oh no...what are they gonna do fly a plan, buy a billboard....who gives a damn?  If they want a say in how things are, let them pool all their money and make me an offer.  Otherwise stfu and enjoy your "game" that will be played on Sunday and our 12 dollar hot chocolates and 20 dollar burgers. They are gonna complain anyway, and we all know they aren't going anywhere.

But that's enough fantasy land.  That would require an owner with a spine and long term vision.  So yeah, we probably cut Petty, draft Trubisky and play McCown and Woody staves off the Post's back pages for 1 week out of 16.  Yippee!

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm not sure I agree that winning games is the best strategy for Todd Bowles to keep his job.  I think, again, I do not know, but he has a stronger case to keep his job if they are looking at the #1 pick than if they're looking at #11.  My argument all along was that you either fire them both this offseason, or you give them a 4th season, because there's no realistic path to success this year.

I think the Jets care about minimal levels of competence.  Again, it's fine and good for us to talk about rebuild and even a tank job here on the internet, but if these two players suck, you're asking 51 other guys to sacrifice their season, their health, and possibly their livelihood for two guys.  I imagine other players can tolerate a young QB if he shows anything, but probably not if he doesn't.  Further, I'd imagine that Jets Management needs something more than 16 weeks of complete failure at the QB position when they're taking huge sums of money from season ticket holders and others.  I'm not sure they can just punt the season entirely.

My point then, was that he's here for insurance.  It was suggested to sign "no one," and I'll ask you, in the past decade, has an NFL team ever started a season with 3 QBs totaling 6 appearances, 4 starts, and 133 passes?  Because, that's what Petty/Hack/Draft would look like.  If I'm right in my speculation that it doesn't happen, the league obviously cares about minimum competence.

Lastly, McCown's arrival should change nothing about Hack's ability to prepare to be the starter.  Hack should go out and play his best football, and we'll see what that looks like.  This is the same argument as how we screwed up Sanchez by bringing in Tebow.  Do you think a real QB would care if you brought that circus into town?  Not likely.  They'd be preparing for the season and playing football.  Sanchez's demise had nothing to do with Tebow, and Hackenberg's success or failure will be irrelevant to McCown.

I feel like the 1st two paragraphs are contradictory.  On one hand, you're saying Todd Bowles is better served getting the #1 overall pick.  On the other, you're talking about how the Jets arent in tank mode and cant do that because of fans and 51 other players.  So I'm completely confused.

And if your point is insurance, than what type of insurance does McCown provide?  What are you insuring?  When I hear insuring, I hear, trying to win games incase something something.  Meaning, incase Hack and Petty do suck than Todd can lean back on a vet to....win games.   Otherwise, what's the point?  It's not minimum competence because I'm not sure McCown is even that.  He's awful.  Todd Bowles is on record, they're trying to win as many games as they can.

As for your question: When the Seahawks drafted Wilson, Matt Flynn was the other QB and had 2 career starts. Sticking with Matt Flynn, he was a rookie with zero starts when Aaron Rodgers took the helm with zero starts.  When the Ravens drafted Joe Flacco the other Qb was Troy Smith with 2 career starts.  The Broncos last year, Trevor Siemian and Paxton Lynch, combined zero starts. When the Titans drafted Mariota, Zach Mettenberger had 4 starts.  Those are the ones that stand out immediately, I'm sure I could go do research and find more.

McCown's arrival does change Hack's ability to be the starter because he was brought here to be the starter.  You're not paying him that contract to sit and develop the young guys.  McCown's presence takes away reps from Hack because he will be the guy to get the firs team reps because he knows the offense.  Knowing the offense and being a vet, makes it harder for Hack to be the starter.  So quite frankly, I just disagree with your whole premise. The value of Hack to prepare like a starter and get all the reps he didnt get last year, completely and utterly out weight the presence of minimum competence insurance from a  turd like McCown.

 

[jamesr]

Not sure if this has been said already - but I'm a lot more interested about who our starting QB is at the END of next season than who it is at the start.

I won't be jumping off a bridge if McCown starts Game 1. But I might be if he's still the starter come Thanksgiving.

[jeremy2020]

Yes, it bodes well because they can ride the bench and not expose their suck. They can collect a paycheck for another year on their "promise"

[thadude]

20 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Not sure if this has been said already - but I'm a lot more interested about who our starting QB is at the END of next season than who it is at the start.

I won't be jumping off a bridge if McCown starts Game 1. But I might be if he's still the starter come Thanksgiving.

Hack will finally see the field week 17 next year when we are 2-15 and be the diarrhea icing on Mac's brutal tenure 

[jamesr]

3 minutes ago, thadude said:

Hack will finally see the field week 17 next year when we are 2-15 and be the diarrhea icing on Mac's brutal tenure 

So you're saying we'll suck so bad we'll even lose in our bye week?  

[thadude]

4 minutes ago, jamesr said:

So you're saying we'll suck so bad we'll even lose in our bye week?  

Hack sucks!

[jetsfan719]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZachEY]

17 hours ago, JiF said:

I feel like the 1st two paragraphs are contradictory.  On one hand, you're saying Todd Bowles is better served getting the #1 overall pick.  On the other, you're talking about how the Jets arent in tank mode and cant do that because of fans and 51 other players.  So I'm completely confused.

And if your point is insurance, than what type of insurance does McCown provide?  What are you insuring?  When I hear insuring, I hear, trying to win games incase something something.  Meaning, incase Hack and Petty do suck than Todd can lean back on a vet to....win games.   Otherwise, what's the point?  It's not minimum competence because I'm not sure McCown is even that.  He's awful.  Todd Bowles is on record, they're trying to win as many games as they can.

As for your question: When the Seahawks drafted Wilson, Matt Flynn was the other QB and had 2 career starts. Sticking with Matt Flynn, he was a rookie with zero starts when Aaron Rodgers took the helm with zero starts.  When the Ravens drafted Joe Flacco the other Qb was Troy Smith with 2 career starts.  The Broncos last year, Trevor Siemian and Paxton Lynch, combined zero starts. When the Titans drafted Mariota, Zach Mettenberger had 4 starts.  Those are the ones that stand out immediately, I'm sure I could go do research and find more.

McCown's arrival does change Hack's ability to be the starter because he was brought here to be the starter.  You're not paying him that contract to sit and develop the young guys.  McCown's presence takes away reps from Hack because he will be the guy to get the firs team reps because he knows the offense.  Knowing the offense and being a vet, makes it harder for Hack to be the starter.  So quite frankly, I just disagree with your whole premise. The value of Hack to prepare like a starter and get all the reps he didnt get last year, completely and utterly out weight the presence of minimum competence insurance from a  turd like McCown.

 

The first two paragraphs don't contradict because there's a difference between losing, and not being able to compete at all.  My concern is that these two QBs put us in a position to not even be able to compete, and that's not good for anyone.  That's what you're insuring, that the Jets can complete passes, move the football on offense, don't get blown out every game.

As for the response to my question, the Seahawks had Tavaris Jackson well into training camp of that year.  The Ravens had Kyle Boller, who was IR'd in September.  Bronco's had Sanchez at this time last year.  The Titans had Whitehurst until November of 2015.  The Packers are the only corollary, but, Aaron Rodgers, a former 1st rounder, in his 4th year is probably a safer play than Bryce Petty, former 4th rounder, going into his 3rd.

Your last paragraph is conjecture.  Maybe he's here to start the season, maybe he's here to mentor, maybe he's here to be a back-up.  We simply don't know.  And I disagree with the premise that the difference between Hackenberg and competence is however many, if any, reps that McCown takes.

The main issue is that in all likelihood, Hackenberg sucks and always was going to suck.  A "turd like McCown" isn't the reason for that.

[thadude]

McCown is a great mentor just ask Manziel

[thadude]

Stubhub tix for home games might be $5 for nosebleeds this season

[JustInFudge]

25 minutes ago, gEYno said:

The first two paragraphs don't contradict because there's a difference between losing, and not being able to compete at all.  My concern is that these two QBs put us in a position to not even be able to compete, and that's not good for anyone.  That's what you're insuring, that the Jets can complete passes, move the football on offense, don't get blown out every game.

As for the response to my question, the Seahawks had Tavaris Jackson well into training camp of that year.  The Ravens had Kyle Boller, who was IR'd in September.  Bronco's had Sanchez at this time last year.  The Titans had Whitehurst until November of 2015.  The Packers are the only corollary, but, Aaron Rodgers, a former 1st rounder, in his 4th year is probably a safer play than Bryce Petty, former 4th rounder, going into his 3rd.

Your last paragraph is conjecture.  Maybe he's here to start the season, maybe he's here to mentor, maybe he's here to be a back-up.  We simply don't know.  And I disagree with the premise that the difference between Hackenberg and competence is however many, if any, reps that McCown takes.

The main issue is that in all likelihood, Hackenberg sucks and always was going to suck.  A "turd like McCown" isn't the reason for that.

Is there an actual difference?  Not sure about that.  And did you miss last year?  Every game was a blow out that they didnt win expect like 1 or 2 games.  

And Josh McCown is not the answer if you're trying to be competitive.  He's terrible.  He has 2 wins in his last 20 starts.  That's not being competitive.  Its the exact opposite.  

Here's the difference between those examples and our situation...all those guys you mentioned, those teams were able to walk away from them.  The Jets just handed Josh McCown guaranteed money.  He's here for the entire season.  And's he's your starter for the majority of it.  You can act like you dont know but this is what will happen because Todd Bowles is trying to win Football games and they just gave McCown guaranteed money.  You're not paying him that to mentor and sit on the bench.

Your right, in all likelihood Hack sucks but we dont know that for sure.  And it would be wise for the Jets to just figure that out by giving him all the focus during the offseason. What we do know for absolute fact, is McCown is a complete turd and has no future here and does nothing but takes away from a chance to figure out if Hack actually has a future.  If you dont think getting a quarter of the reps in practice after a year of basically none, doesnt hurt a players development, I dont know what to tell you.  You dont getting better watching some sh*tty 37 year old QB take all the reps.