ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I honestly don't know the answer to this question, so I'm hoping someone can provide me some examples of successes, or, some clarity that there hasn't been any evidence of this: 1. Fire the Offensive Coordinator on a statistically poor offense 2. Keep the young, struggling QB 3. Offense and QB improves dramatically. My opinion on Sanchez is well documented. As are the opinions on Schotty of the majority of Jets fans. Neither are relevant to this thread. What I'd like to know is, has the above happened and how often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman81 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well you could say the Niners. New HC and OC, and even though Smith isn't technically young anymore, you can say his play has improved. Seems they put him in a better role to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Do you think the Jets are going to release Sanchez, or replace him as the starter, before next season? Do you think Schottenheimer would be a solid coordinator with a better QB? If you answered no to the above questions, then regardless of the formula's success, I think you need to give it a try. (But yes, the '9ers would be a good recent example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 San Francisco -- Alex Smith Chicago -- Jay Cutler -- Mike Martz _ not sure of the time line here but Cutler was doing very well under Martz ...There was a learning curve at the beginning where some didnt think it would work but it was just getting on a roll before the injury. There were some in the past where OC came in and had an impact I just cant remember the names . it would be hard to look that situation up. But at least I have 2 recent ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well you could say the Niners. New HC and OC, and even though Smith isn't technically young anymore, you can say his play has improved. Seems they put him in a better role to succeed. 49'ers turn around is based on hiding the qb, with great defense and solid run game.. Just like we did here.... also doesn't hurt that they play in by far the worst division in football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 San Francisco -- Alex Smith Chicago -- Jay Cutler -- Mike Martz _ not sure of the time line here but Cutler was doing very well under Martz ...There was a learning curve at the beginning where some didnt think it would work but it was just getting on a roll before the injury. There were some in the past where OC came in and had an impact I just cant remember the names . it would be hard to look that situation up. But at least I have 2 recent ones Cutler had better years with the broncos.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cutler had better years with the broncos.. Cutler was erratic with the broncos.... no ? he would having a great year then go in the tank from what I remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Btw.. SF's offensive ranking in 2010 ? 23.. Ranking in 2011? 20... Huge improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 F you guys. I prefer to view Sanchez as a really promising reclamation project for 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cutler was erratic with the broncos.... no ? he would having a great year then go in the tank from what I remember Its funny how Sanchez gets held to a different standard than anyone else by all his supporters. He was erratic his first 2 seasons, much like most young QB's but he was still infinitly better than Sanchez. His 3rd season, when most QB's come into their own, he threw for 4500yrds, 28TD's, 63% comp. Dude was a monster. Team sucked, but he was a stud. That said, he's not an example of this because he swtiched teams. To EY question: I honestly cant recall this ever happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Chan how many times has a QB completely carried a football team and won the SB ? Elway Carried a few broncos teams from what I remember but got Hammered in the SB by better Football teams Manning no doubt has carried some Colts teams yet he only has 1 Superbowl in what 13 years of playoff apprearances and the year they won the defense played lights out. Dan Fouts Carried many Charger teams who lacked defense and never won a SB Dan Marino Carried many Dolphin teams and never won a SB Brett Favre played 900 years and won 1 SB but that team was complete with a great defense. Plenty of HOF type QB's out there that never won anything or might have won just once in long careers. This just proves it really takes more than just a QB to win SB's or Multiple SB's. Keep in mind the teams Montana, Bradshaw, Brady, Elway played for when they won multiple SB's all great defenses and very complete teams from to to bottom. Its not just about the QB. Great QB's do win games great teams win SB's Alex Smith is playing very good football right now but its his team thats winning games. That does not mean you discredit Smith Ive seen him make some pretty big throws this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Its funny how Sanchez gets held to a different standard than anyone else by all his supporters. He was erratic his first 2 seasons, much like most young QB's but he was still infinitly better than Sanchez. His 3rd season, when most QB's come into their own, he threw for 4500yrds, 28TD's, 63% comp. Dude was a monster. Team sucked, but he was a stud. That said, he's not an example of this because he swtiched teams. To EY question: I honestly cant recall this ever happening. What are you talking about ? Im making a case for Cutler Improving due to his relaionship with Mike Martz which is the same thing Im calling for, for Sanchez a new OC.... so whats your point ? Stop posting stats i dont care if Cutler threw 50 TD's the guy was erratic and had issues and its a big reason the team let him go. Stop trying to tie every issue with the Sanchez arguement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Lol at a Cutler attempt. Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 What are you talking about ? Im making a case for Cutler Improving due to his relaionship with Mike Martz which is the same thing Im calling for, for Sanchez a new OC.... so whats your point ? Stop posting stats i dont care if Cutler threw 50 TD's the guy was erratic and had issues and its a big reason the team let him go. Stop trying to tie every issue with the Sanchez arguement Making sense of anything Josh McDaniels did in Denver is stupid. You've numerous times mentioned that Cutler was this and that in Denver as a knock on him, yet you support Sanchez. My point is, the same reasons you give credence to Mark's play, you should be giving to Cutler while in Denver who is twice the player in his first 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Do you think the Jets are going to release Sanchez, or replace him as the starter, before next season? Do you think Schottenheimer would be a solid coordinator with a better QB? If you answered no to the above questions, then regardless of the formula's success, I think you need to give it a try. (But yes, the '9ers would be a good recent example). Question 1: No. Question 2: Yes. Solid. Not necessarily good, but I think coordinators are made by the play of their QB for the most part. I agree it's going to happen, but honestly, don't get the idea that he's the reason Sanchez is struggling and that it will get better when he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Btw.. SF's offensive ranking in 2010 ? 23.. Ranking in 2011? 20... Huge improvement So, because the Cutler example was clearly nonsense, the best example was a team going from 23rd to 20th, and who's winning with a great defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So, because the Cutler example was clearly nonsense, the best example was a team going from 23rd to 20th, and who's winning with a great defense. And playing 6 games against bottom 5-7 teams.. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Plenty of HOF type QB's out there that never won anything or might have won just once in long careers. True. But in the modern NFL, how many "non-HOF type QBs" out there have won anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Making sense of anything Josh McDaniels did in Denver is stupid. You've numerous times mentioned that Cutler was this and that in Denver as a knock on him, yet you support Sanchez. My point is, the same reasons you give credence to Mark's play, you should be giving to Cutler while in Denver who is twice the player in his first 3 seasons. JIF to be 100 % honest I saw the same thing in Cutler the guy has talent and I think he needed a change. Cutler had an attitude in Denver and he said some stupid things and there was concern if his head was screwed on straight. Its seems the Chicago coaching staff has done a good job with him. QB is not just about talent and if a QB has serious head issues (Jeff George) it may never work out for them. EY asked a question, and while my Cutler scenario is reversed since he went to another team, I think the premise is this same, it has had a positive effect on Cutler and he has played much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 True. But in the modern NFL, how many "non-HOF type QBs" out there have won anything? Does "anything" cover CPOTY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 JIF to be 100 % honest I saw the same thing in Cutler the guy has talent and I think he needed a change. Cutler had an attitude in Denver and he said some stupid things and there was concern if his head was screwed on straight. Its seems the Chicago coaching staff has done a good job with him. QB is not just about talent and if a QB has serious head issues (Jeff George) it may never work out for them. EY asked a question, and while my Cutler scenario is reversed since he went to another team, I think the premise is this same, it has had a positive effect on Cutler and he has played much better Are you seriously that obtuse that you don't see any distinction between the question posed - a team swapping out one OC for another - and a QB going to an entirely different team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 True. But in the modern NFL, how many "non-HOF type QBs" out there have won anything? Eli is no lock for the HOF and his defense crushed everyone on his run to the SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Lol at a Cutler attempt. Classic. LOL at a cutler attempt ? Explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 EY asked a question, and while my Cutler scenario is reversed since he went to another team, I think the premise is this same, it has had a positive effect on Cutler and he has played much better One could easily make the argument that 2008 Cutler was as good if not better than 2011 Cutler. So, your point is not clear cut enough to say that "the formula" works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 JIF to be 100 % honest I saw the same thing in Cutler the guy has talent and I think he needed a change. Cutler had an attitude in Denver and he said some stupid things and there was concern if his head was screwed on straight. Its seems the Chicago coaching staff has done a good job with him. QB is not just about talent and if a QB has serious head issues (Jeff George) it may never work out for them. Cutler is terrible. The fans here generally make the same excuses that Sanchez apologists made earlier in the season for him. Offensive line, coordinator...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Are you seriously that obtuse that you don't see any distinction between the question posed - a team swapping out one OC for another - and a QB going to an entirely different team? If you botherd to read my post I made that point . The question is the effect of a new OC on a QB the situations are very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 JIF to be 100 % honest I saw the same thing in Cutler the guy has talent and I think he needed a change. Cutler had an attitude in Denver and he said some stupid things and there was concern if his head was screwed on straight. Its seems the Chicago coaching staff has done a good job with him. QB is not just about talent and if a QB has serious head issues (Jeff George) it may never work out for them. EY asked a question, and while my Cutler scenario is reversed since he went to another team, I think the premise is this same, it has had a positive effect on Cutler and he has played much better But he hasnt played "much better" - his best season was still his last season in Denver. Cutler is just a damn good QB. His play in Denver has been consistent with his play in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Eli is no lock for the HOF and his defense crushed everyone on his run to the SB What Eli did in that postseason was infinitely more impressive than Sanchez's "fabled" runs to back-to-back AFCCG losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cutler is terrible. The fans here generally make the same excuses that Sanchez apologists made earlier in the season for him. Offensive line, coordinator...etc. You think Cutler is terrible? I dont think so. I think he's a gun slinger and I'd love to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 If you botherd to read my post I made that point . The question is the effect of a new OC on a QB the situations are very similar. Yes, because changing one variable (offensive coordinator) has the same predictive value as changing every variable but one (an entire team minus the QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 You think Cutler is terrible? I dont think so. I think he's a gun slinger and I'd love to have him. Sanchez with a stronger arm. His DVOA and DYAR have historically been awful. Still are. If you think watching Sanchez derp it up and down the field is the dumbest thing to watch in the NFL, you have not watched enough Bears football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 One could easily make the argument that 2008 Cutler was as good if not better than 2011 Cutler. So, your point is not clear cut enough to say that "the formula" works. your right its not clear enough. Rutgers --- Not everyone sucks man wonder if people were saying Jim Plunket sucked before he won his SB after being labeled a total bust in NE. Its obvious Cutler is loaded with talent the question is can he turn that into a SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Do you think the Jets are going to release Sanchez, or replace him as the starter, before next season? Do you think Schottenheimer would be a solid coordinator with a better QB? If you answered no to the above questions, then regardless of the formula's success, I think you need to give it a try. (But yes, the '9ers would be a good recent example). Yeah, that's about the long and short of it right there. May not work, probably won't work, but we know for certain the current situation doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yes, because changing one variable (offensive coordinator) has the same predictive value as changing every variable but one (an entire team minus the QB). Nor is the conclusion so clear cut as to prove the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sanchez with a stronger arm. His DVOA and DYAR have historically been awful. Still are. If you think watching Sanchez derp it up and down the field is the dumbest thing to watch in the NFL, you have not watched enough Bears football. Meh, I've watched him enough to see he's definitely not Sanchez. He does things, in the pocket, with his arm, that Sanchez will never be able to do. That and he throws to a bunch of Jags. I'll take him 100x over Sanchez and never think twice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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