SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 2068 yards from scrimmage and 15 total td's...yeah he's probably your best player. Someone needs to score points. So basically because Greene isn't an elite RB and the passing game sucks, Green sucks? Reeeeaaaallllly sh*tttty logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 uh, both. OK that was predictable enough...which is the larger problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 So basically because Greene isn't an elite RB and the passing game sucks, Green sucks? Reeeeaaaallllly sh*tttty logic. Greene sucks because Greene sucks. PFF had him dead last in broken tackles. Unless he's going untouched for the first 3 yards, he offer's nothing. He cant make lateral cuts to another hole. He's a big guy that knows how to run through obvious holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 PFF had him dead last in broken tackles. Oh boy. Numbers. This should be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Oh boy. Numbers. This should be fun. whys that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Greene sucks because Greene sucks. PFF had him dead last in broken tackles. Unless he's going untouched for the first 3 yards, he offer's nothing. He cant make lateral cuts to another hole. He's a big guy that knows how to run through obvious holes. Which is an issue because....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Which is an issue because....? I was hoping we'd be able to score points this year. The obvious holes that were there in 2009 that him and Jones benefited from, aren't there anymore. LT made 2 less people miss on 200 less carries last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was hoping we'd be able to score points this year. Through the RB? What year are you in? http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb Greene is NOT the issue with this offense, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The obvious holes werent there last year and he still managed 1,000 at 4 yards a carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 whys that Considering the trifecta you're debating, the rebuttals to statistical tracking should provide a level of entertainment on the day that rivals Amare's brilliant twitter responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The obvious holes werent there last year and he still managed 1,000 at 4 yards a carry. And he was awful. Sanchez stinks. Compounding it with a slow footed back that leaves yards on the field makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Considering the trifecta you're debating, the rebuttals to statistical tracking should provide a level of entertainment on the day that rivals Amare's brilliant twitter responses. Yeah those dang nerds and their numbers are ruining mah sports.. ****in blows my mind you're convinced I'm anti-numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Through the RB? What year are you in? http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/rb Greene is NOT the issue with this offense, period. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Im talking strictly the offense. Special teams and defensive TD's do not count. OK Then we will do the Historically worst team. The 73 Bucs at 125 points. I will have to go through their record and see how many, if any, of those points were not scored by the offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yeah those dang nerds and their numbers are ruining mah sports.. ****in blows my mind you're convinced I'm anti-numbers. I don't think you're anti-numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 And he was awful. No, actually he wasn't. That was the point of the link you didn't click. While FO is no PFF Broken Tackle counter, their numbers have some merit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I don't think you're anti-numbers. Oh. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 That was the point of the link you didn't click. No, it really isn't. It actually supports his point. 4.8% and an extra 80 effective yards is not enough to make up for Sanchez. Green isn't bad, but he also isn't very good either. If superlatives are your problem in this discussion, I might suggest that you personally want to lay off in that regard considering the capabilities of Max's wonderful new search feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 No, it really isn't. It actually supports his point. 4.8% and an extra 80 effective yards is not enough to make up for Sanchez. Green isn't bad, but he also isn't very good either. If superlatives are your problem in this discussion, I might suggest that you personally want to lay off in that regard considering the capabilities of Max's wonderful new search feature. I don't think it is Greene's job to make up for Sanchez. The third round pick one year starter in college probably shouldn't be expected to make up for the top 5 pick's deficiencies. The point is he doesn't suck and is a capable RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I don't think it is Greene's job to make up for Sanchez. Of course it isn't. And that's also hardly the point. His overall point is that without a better RB, the offense stays stagnant. Which is true. Greene's a decent fit for teams without QB problems. This team? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 When defenses stack the box because they dont fear your passing game, you gain less rushing yards. When you gain less rushing yards, you get into predictable passing situations. When you get into predictable passing situations, the defense sends blitzers to expose your weakest Olinemen. When your weakest Olinemen is exposed, the fans want that weakness addressed in the draft or FA. When that weakness is not addressed, the fans turn to the interwebs to vent about their frustrations with their team. When fans vent about their frustrations with their team, baby jesus cries. dont make baby jesus cry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 OK Then we will do the Historically worst team. The 76 Bucs at 125 points. I will have to go through their record and see how many, if any, of those points were not scored by the offense. That was also a 14 game season so we will prorate it to 16 games. That brings it to 145 points for the season. I will have to go in and see if any points are deducted for other then offensive points. Have to do that later, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 9 points a game? Oof. I'm a pessimist and even I think that's a sucker bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 9 points a game? Oof. I'm a pessimist and even I think that's a sucker bet. If Sanchez bombs and we become the Tebow show by week 5....its certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDKostempski Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Exactly. This place cracks me up. Worst roster in the league but the biggest holes are pretty much the easiest to fill. lol no doubt we have holes in areas easy to fill, so easy, we never seem to fill them. That none are filled (or appear to have merited attempts to fill), seems puzzling unless the Jets FO and coaching staff don't believe they are holes at all. He offers zero big play ability. We had the least amount of big plays i the league from our passing game last season and our QB is back....complimenting a sh*tty passing game with a slow footed running back who cant catch is idiotic. IMO, Sanchez inability/unwillingness to throw downfield contributed to the problems with the Jets running game last season. Teams figured out that Sanchez likes to throw to his check-downs, so they crowded the LOS which hampered both the short passing game and the running game. The reason that Sanchez had success passing late in games in 2009 and 2010 was because teams tend to play prevent Ds when they get ahead late, so the DBs play "off" the receivers, making it easier for even poor QBs to find open receivers downfield. In 2011, teams just stopped with the prevent, and Sanchez had much less success completing passes late. Sanchez just does NOT process what he's seeing on the field very well or very fast, so he doesn't make good defensive reads, doesn't see open receivers, and compensates by tossing to his check-downs, hence 3 yard passes on 3rd and 9s with no YAC because the safeties wrap up. If he goes through his progressions, he's NOT going through them fast enough, hence Sanchez's indecision and either holding the ball too long and getting sacked or throwing late. Sanchez improving his game would improve the Jets running game, but Shonn Greene is what he is: a pretty mediocre RB, and certainly NOT one to make a "ground and pound" style offense go very far. You have a bet. Historically 3 three of the worst teams ever were the 76 Bucs 125 points The 71 Bills 184 points scored, and Houston in 73 199 points scored. Taking the average points scored of the historically 3 worst teams, I'll bet you $1,000 the Jets score more then 169 points in 2012 Those teams all played 14 game seasons. You should use the 3 worst scoring teams from the 16 game season era, which started in 1978. I also think that you should NOT include defensive or ST scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think they need a 3rd offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDKostempski Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Of course it isn't. And that's also hardly the point. His overall point is that without a better RB, the offense stays stagnant. Which is true. Greene's a decent fit for teams without QB problems. This team? Not so much. I think that Greene is really a 2nd RB not the starter. As others have noted, he doesn't have speed or tackle-breaking ability or agility/elusiveness. I would think that a starting RB needs to have 2 of the three. Being a good pass catcher is probably a necessity for a starting RB in today's pass-oriented NFL as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think that Greene is really a 2nd RB not the starter. As others have noted, he doesn't have speed or tackle-breaking ability or agility/elusiveness. I would think that a starting RB needs to have 2 of the three. Being a good pass catcher is probably a necessity for a starting RB in today's pass-oriented NFL as well. Pretty much. Depends on the team. Greene's average enough to be the workhorse on a team whose QB can spread the field. But he's not enough of a consistent playmaker ala AD or Rice to carry the offense when the QB is sucking. Which, for us, is often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Considering the trifecta you're debating, the rebuttals to statistical tracking should provide a level of entertainment on the day that rivals Amare's brilliant twitter responses. I hardly think Matt's one to make any sort of judgment in that regard. This is literally the first time I've ever seen his endless whining about everything the Jets do be even slightly supported by a single fact-based statement. It's normally just an endless stream about how everything they do is the worst ever, the biggest joke ever, historically bad, etc. He got lucky to stumble across a single number somewhere out there that worked in with one of those statements for a change. I know you're hardly an optimist when it comes to this team, and you know I'm not either, but you can't seriously believe that any of this "historically bad" crap he keeps spewing has even the slightest bit of merit to it. And I'd hardly call it purely a matter of superlatives considering he's been repeating the same things for months on end (ever since his beloved Giants got themselves another ring), and he is throwing down guarantees with offers to back them up with bets (which he of course won't actually make). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I clicked on this thread thinking of Jenna Jameson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 You know on second thought, Shonn Greene actually reminds me of Barry Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I will think about it. Im talking strictly the offense. Special teams and defensive TD's do not count. So the Jets offense is going to go from 13th in the league in scoring from last season, to dead last, and even worse, they are going to be historically low the worst offense in the history of the NFL. Based on what exactly? This is one of the funnier paranoia comments I can ever remember. I'm willing to bet every last penny I have that this will certainly not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I hardly think Matt's one to make any sort of judgment in that regard. This is literally the first time I've ever seen his endless whining about everything the Jets do be even slightly supported by a single fact-based statement. It's normally just an endless stream about how everything they do is the worst ever, the biggest joke ever, historically bad, etc. He got lucky to stumble across a single number somewhere out there that worked in with one of those statements for a change. I know you're hardly an optimist when it comes to this team, and you know I'm not either, but you can't seriously believe that any of this "historically bad" crap he keeps spewing has even the slightest bit of merit to it. And I'd hardly call it purely a matter of superlatives considering he's been repeating the same things for months on end (ever since his beloved Giants got themselves another ring), and he is throwing down guarantees with offers to back them up with bets (which he of course won't actually make). If you want to give me 5:1 odds that the Jets will score less than 200 points this season on offense...I will bet you 100 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 That none are filled (or appear to have merited attempts to fill), seems puzzling unless the Jets FO and coaching staff don't believe they are holes at all. Just because the Jets didnt go make a bunch of FA's splashes like some other teams , doesnt mean they didnt address them. They drafted a RB, a T, signed 2 safeties and drafted 2 and signed a couple of FA TE's. And I know this is crazy but some teams actually have faith in players to show up who've kept on the roster from previous seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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