Why The Buccaneers Should Not Trade For Revis

[JetNation]

It seems not a day goes by without some new story regarding the possible trading of All-Pro New York Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis.  The latest comes via Peter King of SI.com and reiterates many past reports that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been in trade talks for Revis.

The Buccaneers make sense their pass defense was worst in the league last season and they have salary cap room to offer the money Revis desires.  While any team wants a healthy Darrelle Revis’ production on the field resources need to be sacrificed in order to obtain him.  The question is given the current state of the Buccaneers is trading for Revis the correct move?

After a poor 4-12 record in 2011 the Buccaneers decided to spend money in free agency acquiring a number of high priced players: wide receiver Vincent Jackson (five-years $55 million, 2012 season: 72 REC – 1,384 YDS – 19.2 AVG – 8 TD), guard Carl Nicks (five-years $47.5 million), and cornerback Eric Wright (five-years $37.5 million).

They also had a very good 2012 draft: pick #7 safety Mark Barron (88 TCKL, 1 INT), #31 running back Doug Martin (319 ATT – 1,454 YDS – 4.4 AVG, 49 REC – 472 YDS – 9.6 AVG), and #58 outside linebacker Lavonte David (Led team in tackles: 139 TCKL – 2 SCK, 1 INT).

Tampa eventually finished the season with a 7-9 record but the prevailing thought is fix up the pass defense and they’ll be contenders so trading for Revis makes sense.  Unfortunately there are more issues facing the Buccaneers then can be fixed by one move.

Their quarterback Josh Freeman has been inconsistent at best and his performance faded down the stretch last season.  Entering the walk year of his rookie contract, drafted in 2009 at #17 where the Jets moved up from that year to obtain Mark Sanchez, Freeman has yet to prove he’s their franchise quarterback.  The organization has stated they would like to bring in competition for Freeman and will not give a new contract, if at all, until after the 2013 season.

The current rumored draft compensation, which will likely change before this article is done, for a Revis trade is the Buccaneers first and second round picks in 2014.  Opposite of this year’s draft class the 2014 draft is suppose to have a vast number of top notch quarterback prospects.  So if Freeman regresses and Tampa has a poor year forget about using those two picks to obtain a new quarterback if they make a trade.  Even Revis’ talent when healthy cannot make up for poor quarterback play.

The other reported driving force behind Revis to Tampa is they have “money to burn” and can afford the, depending on which made-up number you believe, $12-$15 million annually Revis wants.  Strange that a team with all this available capital who only managed 27 sacks last season allowed their top pass rusher defensive end Michael Bennett (41 TCKL, 9 SCK and 3 forced fumbles) go to Seattle on a one-year $5 million deal.

Tampa head coach Greg Schiano has mentioned defensive ends Da’Quan Bowers, who has some legal issues for having a gun in LaGuardia Airport, along with 2011 number one pick Arian Clayborn, who is coming off a torn anterior cruciate ligament like Revis, as players who need to step up in 2013.  There is concern within the organization about this position which puts a premium on getting to the oppositions quarterback.  The Buccaneers were ranked 29^th in sacks last season which effected the overall rating of their pass defense.

Tampa just lost free agent cornerback E.J Biggers, who started 12 games last season, to the Washington Redskins and are considering releasing cornerback Eric Wright after a poor 2012.  The team also released starting linebacker Quincy Black due to a serious neck injury and currently lacks a starting tight end.

They have signed free agent safety Dashon Goldson to a five year-$41.25 million deal to help their secondary but it seems like they will need to obtain two or three more cornerbacks not just a currently injured Revis whose 2013 availability is still unknown.

NFL general managers have to make decisions based upon the allocation of their limited resources.  Tampa Bay’s GM Mark Dominick is facing many issues and will have to decide if the resources he’d be giving up, draft as well as financial, to obtain and keep Darrelle Revis benefits the team more or less in the long run.

With the price for free agent cornerbacks dropping, the many holes they need to fill along with Tampa’s recent success in the draft, does trading anything for Revis make sense?  The lost draft picks and high contract price for Revis might actually be a deterrent to the Buccaneers ability to be competitive.

Darrelle Revis is a great, yet injured, player but given the issues with the Buccaneers roster is obtaining Revis for the “reported” compensation a mistake for the organization?

 

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[LAD_Brooklyn]

The Tampa Bay Bucs finished 2012-13 last giving up a stunning 300 yards a game through the air alone (4,758 passing yard total). That's nearly more than what Seattle, Pittsburgh, SF and Denver gave up both on the ground and air combine. Greg Schino who coaches the secondary directly know how important it is to improve these crop of guys. With the addition of Revis and Goldson to pair with second year stud Barron and possibly downgrading Wright to a number two CB that in itself is a tremendous improvement. Also if Idzik wrongfully agrees for only a 1st and 2nd for 2014 their looking at the possibility in drafting the best 4-3 pass rusher in Werner at 13. In the second round they can look to add the best TE available to help out Freeman. Then targeting OLB Khaseem Greene or Jelani Jenkins in the 3rd to play on the opposite side of Lavonte David.

 

As for Freeman he wouldn't be place in a shoot out with a defense of unit with such a structure.

[bitonti]

the idea that pass rushers are more valuable than corners is arguable. With the 3 step drops and quick passing, the new sack masters are guys like JJ Watt who come up the middle, not guys like Mario who come off the edge. Edge guys can be chipped or cut, it's overall harder to get sacks in the league than it ever has been before. 

 

 

meanwhile with a Revis level CB locking down the teams' #1 WR, there's really not much the other team can do. Besides avoid their highest paid receiver and depend on the 2 and 3 WR to pick up the slack. 

[SenorGato]

the idea that pass rushers are more valuable than corners is arguable.

 

You have to wait until an official expert says this or it's not true. I mean THE Sean Smith only got 6 milion a year. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

Top CBs are not important because they only take out one WR on the vast majority of snaps in a game. Top DEs are more important because they can put up 10+ sacks over 16 games every year. Which one looks better on my 60 inch? It's only science brah.

[Scott Dierking]

You have to wait until an official expert says this or it's not true. I mean THE Sean Smith only got 6 milion a year. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

Top CBs are not important because they only take out one WR on the majority of snaps in a game. Top DEs are more important because they can put up 10+ sacks over 16 games every year. It's only science.

NFL GMs and the salaries they pay D-linemen tell us so. 

[bitonti]

the key part of my post is "a Revis level CB" of which there are only a handful (at best). At worst there's only 1. 

 

the fact that Sean Smith got 6 million has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. 

[SenorGato]

NFL GMs and the salaries they pay D-linemen tell us so. 

 

TEs are still ranked behind RBs in pay for the time being. Is that an accurate reflection of where we are in the sport?

 

Also, NFL GMs and the salaries they've handed out to top CBs says something as well, as much a you're wiling to ignore it.

[Sperm Edwards]

the key part of my post is "a Revis level CB" of which there are only a handful (at best). At worst there's only 1. 

 

the fact that Sean Smith got 6 million has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. 

 

Except that Smith in 2012 was not far off from what Cromartie was in 2010 (and Smith didn't have the luxury of someone else shadowing the offense's #1 WR every week).  Yet Cromartie got $8M/year with a hell of a lot more guaranteed/bonus money. 

 

The market has changed.

[SenorGato]

Except that Smith in 2012 was not far off from what Cromartie was in 2010 (and Smith didn't have the luxury of someone else shadowing the offense's #1 WR every week).  Yet Cromartie got $8M/year with a hell of a lot more guaranteed/bonus money. 

 

The market has changed.

 

Yes, it has. Basic negotiation skills have not. Sean Smith did not start out asking for 6 million, it's where he ended up.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

NFL GMs and the salaries they pay D-linemen tell us so. 

 

Going by the franchise tag it seems as if the value of CBs are closing the gap.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000146214/article/nfl-nflpa-release-franchise-tag-numbers

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes, it has. Basic negotiation skills have not. Sean Smith did not start out asking for 6 million, it's where he ended up.

 

Or far fewer teams think CBs are worth signing to the dollars they were 2-3 years ago.

[SenorGato]

Going by the franchise tag it seems as if the value of CBs are closing the gap.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000146214/article/nfl-nflpa-release-franchise-tag-numbers

 

Has been for a decade now...Teams are understanding more and more thant:

 

1. Stopping the passing game matters most.

 

2. Speed matters more.

 

CBs directly come into the passing game on every play by covering the WRs and CBs are by far the fastest defenders on the field. Hell, the 3-4's resurgence in popularity within the league can be hugely tied (qualitatively, I should work on the quantitative) to the coverage capabalities of the system. Nobody comes out to start a game in their interent lauded bases anymore, rather they start with nickel and dime packages because teams are passing right away now.

 

Just look at draft tendencies. Just in the 2000's there were roughly 500 DBs taken to ~400 DLmen. The Jets drafted DeMario Davis out of a 2-4-5 defense. Teams have just moved with the rules, and the new rules put a heavy emphaiss on defenses being loaded with strong DB talent.

[T0mShane]

Or far fewer teams think CBs are worth signing to the dollars they were 2-3 years ago.

Remember, it was really just two guys who spiked the CB price tag--Al Davis and Mike Tannenbaum. Revis' people are trying to negotiate off of an anomalous contract that doesn't exist anymore. If Tampa want to pay $13-$15 mil, more power to them.

[T0mShane]

Has been for a decade now...Teams are understanding more and more thant:

1. Stopping the passing game matters most.

2. Speed matters more.

CBs directly come into the passing game on every play by covering the WRs and CBs are by far the fastest defenders on the field. Hell, the 3-4's resurgence in popularity within the league can be hugely tied (qualitatively, I should work on the quantitative) to the coverage capabalities of the system. Nobody comes out to start a game in their interent lauded bases anymore, rather they start with nickel and dime packages because teams are passing right away now.

Just look at draft tendencies. Just in the 2000's there were roughly 500 DBs taken to ~400 DLmen. The Jets drafted DeMario Davis out of a 2-4-5 defense. Teams have just moved with the rules, and the new rules put a heavy emphaiss on defenses being loaded with strong DB talent.

If any of this was true, more top CBs would be winning titles for their teams. As it is, rings are being worn by Corey Webster, the eminently disposable Ravens corners, Ike Taylor, etc. You hardly need elite players at the position, especially if you can sack the quarterback.

[SenorGato]

Or far fewer teams think CBs are worth signing to the dollars they were 2-3 years ago.

 

Everyone is going to be hurt by the new CBA. If Terrell Suggs' contract was up this year then he'd be going through the same thing. This isn't a CB specific thing, prices of FAs at all positions have been hit. The Broncos, despite his position being the only position in the sport worth paying, only pay Manning 20 million once (if he gets to it) and like Bailey could have cut him at 1/18 if they really wanted to. This is more about the shrinking salary cap - it's the same number it was in 2009 despite there being no doubts the league is making more than enough to lift the cap number.

 

Nobody colludes like the NFL...well that's not true...but boy do those owners love to get together and keep their costs down.

[SenorGato]

If any of this was true, more top CBs would be winning titles for their teams. As it is, rings are being worn by Corey Webster, the eminently disposable Ravens corners, Ike Taylor, etc. You hardly need elite players at the position, especially if you can sack the quarterback.

Once again, only to those who have the kind of mind that is willing to take the hit and work that way.

 

OTOH you were the one who pointed out Charles Woodson...Rod Woodson....Ty Law....who else am I forgetting...no doubt others...Webster was a top CB in 2007 and the 2011 Giants' secondary was much improved around him as they invested firsts into Phillips and Prince along with big money to S/DB Rolle...

 

Meanwhile the great 49ers didn't even outsack their opponents this year...neither could the Ravens actually...neither team finished in the top 10 for sacks.

[SenorGato]

Remember, it was really just two guys who spiked the CB price tag--

 

Not only is this false - it's been spiking before that like when Clements got the largest defensive FA contract in history in 2007 - but transparently false at that. JNers will see Tannenbaum and Al Davis and prepare the ZOMG moment. Contracts have been going up across the board for high end players for a while now. There was no stopping it considering how much owners are raking in, even as they try their darndest to stop it (by killing the cap going up for a few years and hopefully resetting - which fans no doubt support despite no benefit to them). 

[Sperm Edwards]

Everyone is going to be hurt by the new CBA. If Terrell Suggs' contract was up this year then he'd be going through the same thing. This isn't a CB specific thing, prices of FAs at all positions have been hit. The Broncos, despite his position being the only position in the sport worth paying, only pay Manning 20 million once (if he gets to it) and like Bailey could have cut him at 1/18 if they really wanted to. This is more about the shrinking salary cap - it's the same number it was in 2009 despite there being no doubts the league is making more than enough to lift the cap number.

 

Nobody colludes like the NFL...well that's not true...but boy do those owners love to get together and keep their costs down.

 

You know, you keep bringing up the Broncos, citing Bailey + Manning.  Other than Bailey, here are some other pieces the Broncos knew they had in place for 2013 before they gave Manning that contract:

 

Von Miller at $5M/year

Demaryius Thomas at $1M

Eric Decker at about $1M

Knowshon Moreno at $1.7M and/or Willis McGahee at $2.5M

 

If the first three, in particular, were on veteran contracts rather than their rookie contracts, they would have dumped Bailey 30 seconds after Manning signed the contract.  And if Elvis had sent that fax back giving him an $8M salary for the year, I suspect Bailey would have been next in line to be "asked" to take a similar pay cut (and still may get asked to do so).

[bitonti]

Remember, it was really just two guys who spiked the CB price tag--Al Davis and Mike Tannenbaum. Revis' people are trying to negotiate off of an anomalous contract that doesn't exist anymore. If Tampa want to pay $13-$15 mil, more power to them.

 

between Al Davis dying, Tanny getting fired, and Dan Snyder taking himself out of the game (by hiring Bruce Allen and trusting him),

 

the FA markets have been decimated. 

[SenorGato]

You know, you keep bringing up the Broncos, citing Bailey + Manning.  Other than Bailey, here are some other pieces the Broncos knew they had in place for 2013 before they gave Manning that contract:

 

Von Miller at $5M/year

Demaryius Thomas at $1M

Eric Decker at about $1M

Knowshon Moreno at $1.7M and/or Willis McGahee at $2.5M

 

If the first three, in particular, were on veteran contracts rather than their rookie contracts, they would have dumped Bailey 30 seconds after Manning signed the contract.  And if Elvis had sent that fax back giving him an $8M salary for the year, I suspect Bailey would have been next in line to be "asked" to take a similar pay cut (and still may get asked to do so).

 

What's your point? That rosters require other players? I am well aware. Von Miller is the only one of those guys out of the reach of the upside of guys on rookie contracts for the Jets. Hell, after you get past Revis/Cromartie/Harris/Sanchez (all gone next year barring the unimaginable) the roster is full of filler FA contracts and small money gambles on guys with upside like Hayden Smith. 

[T0mShane]

Not only is this false - it's been spiking before that like when Clements got the largest defensive FA contract in history in 2007 - but transparently false at that. JNers will see Tannenbaum and Al Davis and prepare the ZOMG moment. Contracts have been going up across the board for high end players for a while now. There was no stopping it considering how much owners are raking in, even as they try their darndest to stop it (by killing the cap going up for a few years and hopefully resetting - which fans no doubt support despite no benefit to them).

Are you referring to the 8 yr/$80 million deal that he played four years of before being cut, resulting in an eight-figure cap hit? It was guaranteed for $22 mil and he averaged $8 mil per before getting dumped. This was followed by Haynesworth's catastrophic deal, Nnamdi's catastrophic deal, then what looks to be Mario Williams' catastrophic deal. The Nnamdi deal at $14mm was a spike, which necessitated the Revis spike, which, now, seems silly when the other top corners are signing for less than what Clements made. Duh.

[jack48]

If any of this was true, more top CBs would be winning titles for their teams. As it is, rings are being worn by Corey Webster, the eminently disposable Ravens corners, Ike Taylor, etc. You hardly need elite players at the position, especially if you can sack the quarterback.

 

Exactly.  It is the Jose Reyes rule.  How many WS winners had Jose Reyes or a clone of him on their roster in the last decade?  Yet Metophiles were soiling themselves over the prospect of losing him.  It is not about a guy. Individual players are not that important---unless they are super QBs.

[T0mShane]

Once again, only to those who have the kind of mind that is willing to take the hit and work that way.

OTOH you were the one who pointed out Charles Woodson...Rod Woodson....Ty Law....who else am I forgetting...no doubt others...Webster was a top CB in 2007 and the 2011 Giants' secondary was much improved around him as they invested firsts into Phillips and Prince along with big money to S/DB Rolle...

Meanwhile the great 49ers didn't even outsack their opponents this year...neither could the Ravens actually...neither team finished in the top 10 for sacks.

Rod Woodson's title was in 2001. Law's last title was in 2005, after which the league changed the rulebook to make Ty Law-type corners obsolete. Corey Webster is a cover-two corner who is only as good as the pass rush in front of him. Go ask anyone who coached against the Giants last year how good Corey Webster is. Your best argument is Charles Woodson having the dominant seasons that helped a few teams compete--unfortunately those teams just happened to have historically great offenses supporting him. In three years when the Jets offense might be great, then we can all lament Darrelle Revis.

[SenorGato]

Rod Woodson's title was in 2001. Law's last title was in 2005, after which the league changed the rulebook to make Ty Law-type corners obsolete. Corey Webster is a cover-two corner who is only as good as the pass rush in front of him. Go ask anyone who coached against the Giants last year how good Corey Webster is. Your best argument is Charles Woodson having the dominant seasons that helped a few teams compete--unfortunately those teams just happened to have historically great offenses supporting him. In three years when the Jets offense might be great, then we can all lament Darrelle Revis.

 

Or have him on the roster as he's better than all those guys, including Woodson. Once he's done being the best CB in the league he'll be the best FS/CB in the league like Woodson. The Packers were 10th in points scored that year, 6th in defensive turnovers.

 

Don't need a historically great offense, need a Super Bowl. If say there was even a possibility that a franchise QB were to hit FA and somehow cost enough to prevent a splurge on an elite player's prime because rebuild, THEN maybe I reconsider my stance. Fact is trading Revis has to lead to QB through a massive pile of picks (including 2 firsts) or no dice, because that's the only way the roster is upgrading.  Team's out of cap heck next year. Revis' contract is fine. Trade Cromartie for the 49ers' 2nd or maybe even the Chiefs' 2nd, he's got a cheap contract now for a quality CB under 30 coming off two strong years.  Maybe try to get a 4/5 for Harris this year or cut him next year. Same for Sanchez, maybe he earns another shot somehow, or just cut him next year. 

[T0mShane]

Or have him on the roster as he's better than all those guys, including Woodson. Once he's done being the best CB in the league he'll be the best FS/CB in the league like Woodson. The Packers were 10th in points scored that year, 6th in defensive turnovers.

Don't need a historically great offense, need a Super Bowl. If say there was even a possibility that a franchise QB were to hit FA and somehow cost enough to prevent a splurge on an elite player's prime because rebuild, THEN maybe I reconsider my stance. Fact is trading Revis has to lead to QB through a massive pile of picks (including 2 firsts) or no dice, because that's the only way the roster is upgrading. Team's out of cap heck next year. Revis' contract is fine. Trade Cromartie for the 49ers' 2nd or maybe even the Chiefs' 2nd, he's got a cheap contract now for a quality CB under 30 coming off two strong years. Maybe try to get a 4/5 for Harris this year or cut him next year. Same for Sanchez, maybe he earns another shot somehow, or just cut him next year.

1. You and I, we love Revis.

2. You and I believe the Jets can afford Revis.

3. You and I would prefer Revis back.

1. I think you can win without Revis.

2. I think Idzik thinks 1 is true.

3. I think I'll be bummed when Revis leaves, but will be less bummed if our team is 12-4 in three years.

[SenorGato]

1. I think you can win without Revis.

2. I think Idzik thinks 1 is true.

 

Of course you can win without him. I think everyone knows that's true. It's just not happening any time soon without him and the one thing that can upgrade this roster more than Revis can is a QB. A QB that does not exist in FA. The Packers were on a team friendly extension with Rodgers at the time btw. They can win without Cromartie, Harris, and if Sanchez is still that bad in 2013 then definitely him alot more easily than without Revis. 

[Bugg]

Has been for a decade now...Teams are understanding more and more thant:

 

1. Stopping the passing game matters most.

 

2. Speed matters more.

 

CBs directly come into the passing game on every play by covering the WRs and CBs are by far the fastest defenders on the field. Hell, the 3-4's resurgence in popularity within the league can be hugely tied (qualitatively, I should work on the quantitative) to the coverage capabalities of the system. Nobody comes out to start a game in their interent lauded bases anymore, rather they start with nickel and dime packages because teams are passing right away now.

 

Just look at draft tendencies. Just in the 2000's there were roughly 500 DBs taken to ~400 DLmen. The Jets drafted DeMario Davis out of a 2-4-5 defense. Teams have just moved with the rules, and the new rules put a heavy emphaiss on defenses being loaded with strong DB talent.

Only flaw here is GMs clearly do not think the marginal utiltity from a JAG CB to Revis is justified by contract numbers. Assumougha and Bailey's contracts on the back end were disasters(Bailey effing up vs. the Ravens haunts John Elway nightly). Revis may prove otherwise, but you don't know that. And none of these 3 guys,arguably the 3 most respected CBs, have won anything.

[SenorGato]

Only flaw here is GMs clearly do not think the marginal utiltity from a JAG CB to Revis is justified by contract numbers. Assumougha and Bailey's contracts on the back end were disasters(Bailey effing up vs. the Ravens haunts John Elway nightly). Revis may prove otherwise, but you don't know that. And none of these 3 guys,arguably the 3 most respected CBs, have won anything.

 

Woodson and Law were plenty respected and won 3 SBs between them. I also question whether GMs have made that clear as Revis is still a Jet. 

[Bugg]

Woodson and Law were plenty respected and won 3 SBs between them. I also question whether GMs have made that clear as Revis is still a Jet. 

Were either of those guys anywhere close to the top paid player on their teams? Didn't appear either franchise missed them when they left.

[SenorGato]

Were either of those guys anywhere close to the top paid player on their teams? Didn't appear either franchise missed them when they left.

 

Woodson was the 3rd highest player on the Packers. that year and the second highest paid last year. Woodson was 33-35 over those three seasons.