<><><>You be John Idzik Super Poll Mock<><><>

[JiFtheOracle]

You're massively underestimating the position. Look what Andy Levitre got in free agency, Carl Nicks before him.

 

Interestingly enough, Martin didnt really start going nuts until Nicks was out for the season...and Nicks was a 2nd round pick.

[unbanmadmike1]

JiF, on 02 Apr 2013 - 14:05, said:

Interestingly enough, Martin didnt really start going nuts until Nicks was out for the season...and Nicks was a 2nd round pick.

You like the Jets history taking second round OL?

[unbanmadmike1]

JiF, on 02 Apr 2013 - 14:04, said:

Casserly has him at 15. Brandt has him at #9 to the Jets where he doesnt fit according to you. Are they of the know, or not of the know? Who is of the know, in your expert opinion? Mayock has him as the #1 4-3 DE. Is he of the know?

Even if thats true, which I don't even agree with, it's a horrible fit for the Jets.

[#27TheDominator]

Nobody that works out well at the combine.  Nobody that looks good in positional drills.  No trade ups.  No RBs early.  No DE to OLB projects.  No offensive linemen in the second.  So many ******* rules with this team.  I hope Idzik knows them all. 

[HessStation]

Sorta like being an elite mass produced American lager.

You completely underestimate the importance of Guards in this league. Look at the Saints Super Bowl. Look at the 49ers. Look at how important Mankins is to the Pats. Look at the great Redskins and Cowboy teams. Look at Giants with Chris Snee. Look at the Steelers during the Faneca years. Great teams need Guards or at least one really good one as much as the skilled players behind them. The Jets need it all. Seein that it's a down year to be picking QB, WR, TE, or RB at 9, why not the best player in the draft, considered by many.

[HessStation]

Interestingly enough, Martin didnt really start going nuts until Nicks was out for the season...and Nicks was a 2nd round pick.

5th round

[Sperm Edwards]

You're massively underestimating the position. Look what Andy Levitre got in free agency, Carl Nicks before him.

 

Therefore they're available in free agency, and you don't need to burn the #9 pick in the country to get one.

 

A real franchise QB is not.  A demon pass rusher is not.  A stud WR is not.  I'm not saying that we'll necessarily have access to a great QB/pass rusher/WR at #9 this year.  But all we're getting by drafting the guard at #9 is 3 years of use at cheaper dollars (and one of those 3 years is 2013 with Mark Sanchez and 10 other starter holes/stop-gaps).  So you're talking 2 years and then bidding on 2016's Levitre/Nicks/other.

 

Take the guy at a position you can't find elite-level players in FA every year.  The decision becomes even more slanted that way when you're not forced to give the #9 pick a $40M contract with half of it guaranteed.  Last year the #9 pick got a 4 year deal worth a total of $12.58M.  The obvious benefit of filling a need with a "sure-thing" aside, a team can weather the cap repercussions of an unworthy top-10 pick pretty easily now (unlike Gholston, DRob, and dozens of other players drafted by other teams in recent years).  Swinging for the bleachers and a missing isn't a double-edged sword anymore (missing out on a good player + the cap room you no longer have to add a solid to premium player in the bust's place).

[JiFtheOracle]

You like the Jets history taking second round OL?

 

I dont Idzik's history of taking OL in the 2nd round. 

 

Even if thats true, which I don't even agree with, it's a horrible fit for the Jets.

 

If you say so.

 

5th round

 

Even better. 

[unbanmadmike1]

Sperm Edwards, on 02 Apr 2013 - 14:55, said:

Therefore they're available in free agency, and you don't need to burn the #9 pick in the country to get one.

A real franchise QB is not. A demon pass rusher is not. A stud WR is not. I'm not saying that we'll necessarily have access to a great QB/pass rusher/WR at #9 this year. But all we're getting by drafting the guard at #9 is 3 years of use at cheaper dollars (and one of those 3 years is 2013 with Mark Sanchez and 10 other starter holes/stop-gaps). So you're talking 2 years and then bidding on 2016's Levitre/Nicks/other.

Take the guy at a position you can't find elite-level players in FA every year. The decision becomes even more slanted that way when you're not forced to give the #9 pick a $40M contract with half of it guaranteed. Last year the #9 pick got a 4 year deal worth a total of $12.58M. The obvious benefit of filling a need with a "sure-thing" aside, a team can weather the cap repercussions of an unworthy top-10 pick pretty easily now (unlike Gholston, DRob, and dozens of other players drafted by other teams in recent years). Swinging for the bleachers and a missing isn't a double-edged sword anymore (missing out on a good player + the cap room you no longer have to add a solid to premium player in the bust's place).

If there was an elite player there at a position other than guard (Dion Jordan) we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I'll say again that the cost is more than just the 13M. It's the opportunity cost of a number 9 overall pick when you have gaping holes all over the field.

[HessStation]

sh*t, look at the Ravens...Yanda is a 3rd round pick, Pro Bowler who gets All Pro votes every year and Osemele was a 2nd round pick. These guys aren't all 6th round picks. The idea you can just plug any JAG in there is absurd especially for Jet fans who went through a season with Adrien Clarke. Everyone loves Ray Rice, super player, yet plug in Bernard Pierce and they don't skip a beat. 

[Sperm Edwards]

sh*t, look at the Ravens...Yanda is a 3rd round pick, Pro Bowler who gets All Pro votes every year and Osemele was a 2nd round pick. These guys aren't all 6th round picks. The idea you can just plug any JAG in there is absurd especially for Jet fans who went through a season with Adrien Clarke. 

 

No, but after spending the #4 pick (and a giant 2nd contract) on a LT, a 1st round pick (and a giant 2nd contract) on a center, there is plenty of in-between for a guard from the #9 overall pick to the 6th round.

[T0mShane]

sh*t, look at the Ravens...Yanda is a 3rd round pick, Pro Bowler who gets All Pro votes every year and Osemele was a 2nd round pick. These guys aren't all 6th round picks. The idea you can just plug any JAG in there is absurd especially for Jet fans who went through a season with Adrien Clarke. Everyone loves Ray Rice, super player, yet plug in Bernard Pierce and they don't skip a beat.

We should draft a guard at #9, because look at all these great players who were drafted in the second, third, fourth, fifth rounds?

[HessStation]

No, but after spending the #4 pick (and a giant 2nd contract) on a LT, a 1st round pick (and a giant 2nd contract) on a center, there is plenty of in-between for a guard from the #9 overall pick to the 6th round.

What does one have to do with the other. Those two guys are now TWENTY NINE years old and under the new CBA you have 4 years to pay what is essentially around 3M per. You've mentioned, "oh but in two years, what happens if the guy is any good"... you think a big, nasty will be trying to opt out of a rookie contract as opposed to an elite WR or QB? Seriously?

[HessStation]

We should draft a guard at #9, because look at all these great players who were drafted in the second, third, fourth, fifth rounds?

 

You just side stepped the argument. You can look at every position on the field and find Pro Bowl players in every round and every position. 

 

You would draft "the Guard" at 9 this year b/c....

-it's a position of need

-it's, potentially, a down year to find any skilled players at 9 who don't have enormous risk...not my words but what seems to be the universal talk

-the prospect probably most universally known as the best player and safest pick in this years draft is a Guard

-you have a new GM looking to build a foundation in what's considered by many, a rebuilding year. 

-the two staples of you Offensive Line will both be turning 30 in a year

[slats]

sh*t, look at the Ravens...Yanda is a 3rd round pick, Pro Bowler who gets All Pro votes every year and Osemele was a 2nd round pick. These guys aren't all 6th round picks. The idea you can just plug any JAG in there is absurd especially for Jet fans who went through a season with Adrien Clarke. Everyone loves Ray Rice, super player, yet plug in Bernard Pierce and they don't skip a beat. 

 

There's a lot of room between the #9 overall and any JAG. I'm not opposed to drafting an OG, but I am opposed to drafting one in the top ten.

 

You say I'm undervaluing the position, and that's fine. But if I were to list every starting position on offense and defense, I'd rank guard dead last.

[Sperm Edwards]

What does one have to do with the other. Those two guys are now TWENTY NINE years old and under the new CBA you have years of pay what is essentially around 3M per. You've mentioned, "oh but in two years, what happens if the guy is any good"... you think a big, nasty will be trying to opt out of a rookie contract as opposed to an elite WR or QB? Seriously? 

 

Well year 1 is 2013, which is in the crapper no matter how much any fan's attitude is to the contrary.

 

Year 2 we have him for cheap.

 

Year 3 we have him for cheap.

 

Year 4 if we don't lock him up in pre-season at elite guard money we could lose him in free agency.

 

Two meaningful years.  For a guy we could get in free agency if we're willing to spend that $ on a guard.

[HessStation]

There's a lot of room between the #9 overall and any JAG. I'm not opposed to drafting an OG, but I am opposed to drafting one in the top ten.

 

You say I'm undervaluing the position, and that's fine. But if I were to list every starting position on offense and defense, I'd rank guard dead last.

Then which skilled player do you want to reach for? 

 

BTW, you can find them in later rounds sometimes too. 

 

 

QB- Tom Brady 6th, Russel Wilson 3rd, Drew Brees 2nd, Colin Kaepernick 2nd

RB- Arien Foster UDFA, Jamaal Charles 3rd, Ray Rice 2nd, Frank Gore 3rd

WR- Marques Colston 7th, Brandon Marshall 4th, Wes Welker UDFA, Danny Amendola UDFA, Victor Cruz UDFA, Vincent Jackson 2nd

[T0mShane]

You just side stepped the argument. You can look at every position on the field and find Pro Bowl players in every round and every position.

You would draft "the Guard" at 9 this year b/c....

-it's a position of need

-it's, potentially, a down year to find any skilled players at 9 who don't have enormous risk...not my words but what seems to be the universal talk

-the prospect probably most universally known as the best player and safest pick in this years draft is a Guard

-you have a new GM looking to build a foundation in what's considered by many, a rebuilding year.

-the two staples of you Offensive Line will both be turning 30 in a year

No one is questioning that we need a guard or two. We're questioning whether or not you need to spend the #9 pick on that guard. Using fourth, fifth, and second round picks as examples of why guards are important isn't helping your cause.

[HessStation]

Well year 1 is 2013, which is in the crapper no matter how much any fan's attitude is to the contrary.

 

Year 2 we have him for cheap.

 

Year 3 we have him for cheap.

 

Year 4 if we don't lock him up in pre-season at elite guard money we could lose him in free agency.

 

Two meaningful years.  For a guy we could get in free agency if we're willing to spend that $ on a guard.

 

How does this differ from any other position? Are you seriously trying to argue not drafting a player because you're worried about his 2017 cap hit?

[slats]

Then which skilled player do you want to reach for? 

 

BTW, you can find them in later rounds sometimes too. 

 

 

QB- Tom Brady 6th, Russel Wilson 3rd, Drew Brees 2nd, Colin Kaepernick 2nd

RB- Arien Foster UDFA, Jamaal Charles 3rd, Ray Rice 2nd, Frank Gore 3rd

WR- Marques Colston 7th, Brandon Marshall 4th, Wes Welker UDFA, Danny Amendola UDFA, Victor Cruz UDFA, Vincent Jackson 2nd

 

Taking a guard at #9 is the most massive reach of all.

 

I'd listen to my scouting department, and take the top non-guard on the board.

[HessStation]

No one is questioning that we need a guard or two. We're questioning whether or not you need to spend the #9 pick on that guard. Using fourth, fifth, and second round picks as examples of why guards are important isn't helping your cause.

There are multiple discussions going on with different people with different concerns. My intent isn't about winning but remaining objective. I brought up where Yanda and Osemele were drafted to be fair, but I was replying in objection to slats' statement that you don't need really good ones and can get by with JAGs, if need be. The fact that they were 2nd and 3rd round picks...everyone can draw their own conclusion to that. It helps neither side really, as they weren't firsts nor fifths or sixths. I think, for me, the importance of the discussion is that, you need really good ones, regardless of where they're drafted....that would be, like, step one. Whether one is worth the 9th pick is the next part (like, step 2) of the debate.

[HessStation]

Taking a guard at #9 is the most massive reach of all.

 

I'd listen to my scouting department, and take the top non-guard on the board.

That's fine. But I think I've tried best as I can, to show, if they did take Warmack, it could be considered warranted. *shrugs

[#27TheDominator]

Taking a guard at #9 is the most massive reach of all.

 

I'd listen to my scouting department, and take the top non-guard on the board.

 

Even if it's a punter?  

 

I think the closest match is safety.  We need two, we basically have none, but IMO it is not a "value position" where I want to pick on early.

[unbanmadmike1]

#27TheDominator, on 02 Apr 2013 - 15:58, said:

Even if it's a punter?

I think the closest match is safety. We need two, we basically have none, but IMO it is not a "value position" where I want to pick on early.

If we were talking about a great safety being available at 9 rather than a great guard, we'd be talking about the same thing here.

[HessStation]

Even if it's a punter?  

 

I think the closest match is safety.  We need two, we basically have none, but IMO it is not a "value position" where I want to pick on early.

 

Plus, there is no "dominant" player this year and there is a good amount of valued depth at the position, including in FA. 

[Sperm Edwards]

How does this differ from any other position? Are you seriously trying to argue not drafting a player because you're worried about his 2017 cap hit?

 

It differs plenty.  Pro bowl guards in their primes are available in free agency every year. 

 

Go find a pro bowl pass rusher that a team lets hit free agency.  Or pro bowl QB. Or pro bowl WR.

 

Again, I'm not saying a QB or pass rusher or WR we take at #9 is sure to do anything except sign a rookie contract with the Jets.  But theoretically this is where you have the best chance at landing an elite one that isn't necessarily available later in the draft.  And once they're established they almost never hit free agency.  Pro bowl guards you can land any year you have extra cap room.  Merely "good" guards you can get any year in rounds 2 or later (or as undrafted FAs).

[HessStation]

It differs plenty. Pro bowl guards in their primes are available in free agency every year.

Go find a pro bowl pass rusher that a team lets hit free agency. Or pro bowl QB. Or pro bowl WR.

Again, I'm not saying a QB or pass rusher or WR we take at #9 is sure to do anything except sign a rookie contract with the Jets. But theoretically this is where you have the best chance at landing an elite one that isn't necessarily available later in the draft. And once they're established they almost never hit free agency. Pro bowl guards you can land any year you have extra cap room. Merely "good" guards you can get any year in rounds 2 or later (or as undrafted FAs).

Yeah, I agree. Now let's bridge that basic concept into practicality of this years draft. It's one of the worse years ever to take a QB top 10. There's barely any Running Backs considered worthy of a first round pick, never mind top 10.... which leaves us guessing on the WRs in Patterson, a one year wonder who didn't exactly dominate btw...he was never even the #1 target on the worst team in the conference, Austin, who is considered by most, more of a slot WR at 175 lbs. and Allen, who is considered a very ordinary athlete coming off a lingering knee injury. Then you have the pass rushers, all of which have major red flags. That said, I've already been on record saying it's probably their best option. But which guy? The oft injured, slight framed Jordan who lacks upper body strength and not even considered an elite pass rusher in the Pac 12. Mingo who at 240 lbs. refuses to bench press with a lack of big career sack numbers. Ansah, who also has a lack of production and experience and who may prove to become too large to play 34 OLB. Werner, who lacks pursuit skills and may lack true athleticism as a 34 OLB...whom most consider much better off as a 43 DE. Or Jones who has had a terrible off season and may be out of the league before his rookie contract even ends due major health issues.

It's that or what most experts consider the safest, best player in the draft at a position of need.

[New York Mick]

Lulz? What? He's an extremely explosive pass rusher with a great burst. He make plays by getting sacks and swatting the ball at the LOS. He's about 40 lbs lighter than Mo Wilk, about 3 inches shorter and he's much faster/quicker. He's a versatile player who fits Rex's scheme because he can play in space and with a hand in the dirt on our 4 man sets, which Rex uses a lot of. He'd give the Jets flexibility with Mo and Coples being able to move them inside on those sets. I believe your take is misguided.

I'll pass on taking Guards in the top 15 but sign me up for Austin.

If we were in need of an OT, I'd agree, otherwise, I'm good on a Guard. I like Austin and Austin only that high for a skills position. And no, there isnt a TE worthy of that high of a selection.

Notre Dame baby.

[HessStation]

It differs plenty. Pro bowl guards in their primes are available in free agency every year.

Go find a pro bowl pass rusher that a team lets hit free agency. Or pro bowl QB. Or pro bowl WR.

Again, I'm not saying a QB or pass rusher or WR we take at #9 is sure to do anything except sign a rookie contract with the Jets. But theoretically this is where you have the best chance at landing an elite one that isn't necessarily available later in the draft. And once they're established they almost never hit free agency. Pro bowl guards you can land any year you have extra cap room. Merely "good" guards you can get any year in rounds 2 or later (or as undrafted FAs).

Btw, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson have been available. Victor Cruz is available, Wes Welker available, all made the Pro Bowl this year.

Pro Bowler Mario Williams was available last year, Peppers was available. Avril available.

QB is really the only one...so unless you think Geno Smith is the next John Elway.

[#27TheDominator]

Btw, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson have been available. Victor Cruz is available, Wes Welker available, all made the Pro Bowl this year.

Pro Bowler Mario Williams was available last year, Peppers was available. Avril available.

QB is really the only one...so unless you think Geno Smith is the next John Elway.

 

 

Why can't he be the next Matt Hasselbeck?  The next Ben Roethlisberger?

[HessStation]

Why can't he be the next Matt Hasselbeck? The next Ben Roethlisberger?

If you think he's the next Roetglisberger you take him. Fwiw if there is a next Roethlisberger it's Manuel IMO.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

So the Jets 2 best players on D are going to be DL and they have the worst offense in the NFL and you want to draft 2 DL in the top 15 and 5 out of 6 defensive players in the first 4 rounds. Smart take. UGH. Bjoern Werner would be a HORRIBLE fit for the Jets.

 

You might of miss that I had two mocks. One having us pick up the best talent and potential with the second one going for need. All players I had us taking are versatile to fit both 4-3 and 3-4 defenses with Sio being the most impressive in fitting into both schemes. After trading Revis I doubt the goal would be to fill in needs over talent but if it is then the alternative mock below it it is.

 

Werner is a horrible fit? Child please. I would agree he would be more productive in a 4-3 but he I have to disagree if you think he's not capable in playing OLB.

[slats]

If we were talking about a great safety being available at 9 rather than a great guard, we'd be talking about the same thing here.

 

Safeties can be impact players, but there are no guard equivalents to Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed.

[HessStation]

Safeties can be impact players, but there are no guard equivalents to Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed.

My god you are so wrong. 

[JetsFanInDenver]

I voted Revis off the island.

 

I am not too delighted with the draft choices at #9 and #13. But i picked ONE.

 

Post draft we should pick some serviceable talent on the cheap. I went with Braylon and Bradshaw which i think should be low cost moves. Not sure of the cost of the rest but I wont mind bringing back Moore and signing Harrison at low cost.

 

Giving up on Rex Ryan by end of next season would be too early. I just want to see how far can a Rex Ryan team go with an AVERAGE QB!