Stephen Hill....

[Matt39]

Hill's awareness is terrible. He doesnt look like a football player, but he's good for a potential deep shot/PI call a couple times a game.

 

I thought the INT in the Titans game was more on Hill than Geno.

[dbatesman]

Brandon Marshall called him soft, I bet if Jeffery was a women Marshall probably would have smacked him around for being so soft because that is Marshalls M.O. right.....hitting women? Trust me, Marshall calling a man "soft" is an absolute joke to me. 

 

Now dont get me wrong, I totally get what you're saying, but what other people say, especially people with a rap sheet like Marshall, should be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

You and I may agree to disagree on Jeffery, but we can certainly agree to agree that Brandon Marshall is a dogsh*t human being.

[Villain The Foe]

Hill will always be good for a few great plays and a few head scratchers. He's not a football player w amazing skills. He no different than what Ducasse brings at OG. You're banking on like, a 5% chance that it will all just click someday. So mid level teams like the Jets will sit and wait w their fingers crossed taking the good with the bad.

Outside of the Vlad Ducasse comparison I agree with you here. I do think Hill is a better WR than Vlad is a Guard. Anyway, this is why I said earlier that you let a team like a Green Bay or New Orleans take these types of picks. Tanny passed on a guy who had a WR skillset for a freak athlete with inconsistent hands. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

Brandon Marshall called him soft, I bet if Jeffery was a women Marshall probably would have smacked him around for being so soft because that is Marshalls M.O. right.....hitting women? Trust me, Marshall calling a man "soft" is an absolute joke to me. 

 

Now dont get me wrong, I totally get what you're saying, but what other people say, especially people with a rap sheet like Marshall, should be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

as for the "rep as a dog", that would be news to me. All I know is that I seen talent on the field, something that would have been a value to this team. Hill has been decent but my feeling is simply that I still dont believe in him yet, more than it is the people contrary to my point of view being wrong. I dont believe you guys are wrong, I could never prove that. I just feel that we talk about his measurables during topics like this but when its right after a game we talk about how he doesnt even use that frame or speed etc. We only mention these things as "pros" when we talk about Jeffery. Not saying you specifically, but we cant have it both ways. 

 

Dude gained 20+ lbs of bad weight his senior year and his production was basically cut in half.  The fact that many people felt he could be the best receiver in the entire class and he still fell to the middle of the second round, should speak volumes about his egregious character concerns.  

 

I don't want to completely knock him, as an SEC guy, I loved him, but as mentioned earlier, after dealing with headcases like Holmes, Burress and Mason, you can't really blame the team for going with the kid (Hill) who possesses both insane measurables and a strong work ethic and character. 

[Villain The Foe]

Hill's awareness is terrible. He doesnt look like a football player, but he's good for a potential deep shot/PI call a couple times a game.

 

I thought the INT in the Titans game was more on Hill than Geno.

I thought that Geno threw a pass slightly behind Hill, what Hill didnt do was make an adjustment to get the football. He didnt fight to secure it or make sure that it was incomplete. 

[Villain The Foe]

Dude gained 20+ lbs of bad weight his senior year and his production was basically cut in half.  The fact that many people felt he could be the best receiver in the entire class and he still fell to the middle of the second round, should speak volumes about his egregious character concerns.  

 

I don't want to completely knock him, as an SEC guy, I loved him, but as mentioned earlier, after dealing with headcases like Holmes, Burress and Mason, you can't really blame the team for going with the kid (Hill) who possesses both insane measurables and a strong work ethic and character. 

You can fix that situation with a diet and world class facilities, which is what these NFL teams have access to. Its very different trying to fix inconsistent hands. And yes, I can blame them. Every team deals with different personalities. If you cant deal with weight gain then you shouldnt be in the freaking league as a coach/coordinator/manager etc. He was a top 3 receiver (even with his fat) and had the best hands in the draft. If you can take a chance on an unknown with less than 50 catches in a career with obious catching problems then you can also take on these so called "character concerns". 

[Villain The Foe]

You and I may agree to disagree on Jeffery, but we can certainly agree to agree that Brandon Marshall is a dogsh*t human being.

You just made my day! 

[Jetscode1]

Agree with VTF on Jefferey.  The guys' a baller.  I wanted him before Hill in the draft as well.  Not sure why the front office had Hill higher rated.  I still think Hill will turn out well just not at the level of Jefferey.  Hill just doesn't look as fluid.  For whatever reason our front office has not identified high end offensive talent.  Could be the churning at the coaching position could be they redline high talent with character questions.  Most likely just suck at finding high end offensive skill players.

[stoicsentry]

Hill will always be good for a few great plays and a few head scratchers. He's not a football player w amazing skills. He no different than what Ducasse brings at OG. You're banking on like, a 5% chance that it will all just click someday. So mid level teams like the Jets will sit and wait w their fingers crossed taking the good with the bad.

 

I disagree with this, Hill is already a better player in his 2nd year than Ducasse is in his (3rd...4th?) Hill has shown promise on the field several times, and most of the time he's spent on the bench is due to injury, not ineffectiveness like Ducasse. I don't think Hill will ever be a superstar, but he will be a solid #2 on the outside.

[RSJ]

Hill's awareness is terrible. He doesnt look like a football player, but he's good for a potential deep shot/PI call a couple times a game.

 

I thought the INT in the Titans game was more on Hill than Geno.

 

I forget who - but someone on one of the networks broke down this play and it was pretty clear that Geno should not have thrown that ball. Could explain why Hill looked like he wasn't expecting it. That play should have went to an underneath receiver.

[Villain The Foe]

Agree with VTF on Jefferey.  The guys' a baller.  I wanted him before Hill in the draft as well.  Not sure why the front office had Hill higher rated.  I still think Hill will turn out well just not at the level of Jefferey.  Hill just doesn't look as fluid.  For whatever reason our front office has not identified high end offensive talent.  Could be the churning at the coaching position could be they redline high talent with character questions.  Most likely just suck at finding high end offensive skill players.

He's really turning into "that guy". The front office had Hill rated higher based on potential, not based on resume. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

You can fix that situation with a diet and world class facilities, which is what these NFL teams have access to. Its very different trying to fix inconsistent hands. And yes, I can blame them. Every team deals with different personalities. If you cant deal with weight gain then you shouldnt be in the freaking league as a coach/coordinator/manager etc. He was a top 3 receiver (even with his fat) and had the best hands in the draft. If you can take a chance on an unknown with less than 50 catches in a career with obious catching problems then you can also take on these so called "character concerns". 

 

You don't have to sell me on his skills, I watched him probably more than most of you who are clamoring for him now, but acting like he just needed to drop some baby fat and clean up his diet is ridiculous.  He showed up to his last college season out of shape, refused to work out, was late to meetings, had his productivity cut in half and was routinely slammed by his coaches and players; and you think giving him a multi-million dollar contract is going to solve all of this?  Look at Dez Bryant, they needed a few seasons and a team of people to get him to mature, it's not a guarantee that Alshon was going to pan out.  There's a reason he fell so far after being considered the best WR talent in the draft, it's not just bad-luck. 

 

Additionally, everyone is dogging Hill's hands, but if you watched his combine, he absolutely killed it, especially with the Jugs machines and live action.  His drops that he's had are due to lack of concentration, the kid is superbly talented.  Would I have preferred Alshon knowing that he would get his sh*t together? Probably, but it's not something I'm going to crucify the FO for.  

 

You're playing monday morning quarterback at its finest; Bears fans were ready to toss this kid to the streets last year after he single-handedly lost them the GB game with two bone-headed PI calls, coupled with bad drops and lack of production.  I like Alshon a lot, but this argument against our FO is a bit off-based. 

[Villain The Foe]

You don't have to sell me on his skills, I watched him probably more than most of you who are clamoring for him now, but acting like he just needed to drop some baby fat and clean up his diet is ridiculous.  He showed up to his last college season out of shape, refused to work out, was late to meetings, had his productivity cut in half and was routinely slammed by his coaches and players; and you think giving him a multi-million dollar contract is going to solve all of this?  Look at Dez Bryant, they needed a few seasons and a team of people to get him to mature, it's not a guarantee that Alshon was going to pan out.  There's a reason he fell so far after being considered the best WR talent in the draft, it's not just bad-luck. 

 

Additionally, everyone is dogging Hill's hands, but if you watched his combine, he absolutely killed it, especially with the Jugs machines and live action.  His drops that he's had are due to lack of concentration, the kid is superbly talented.  Would I have preferred Alshon knowing that he would get his sh*t together? Probably, but it's not something I'm going to crucify the FO for.  

 

You're playing monday morning quarterback at its finest; Bears fans were ready to toss this kid to the streets last year after he single-handedly lost them the GB game with two bone-headed PI calls, coupled with bad drops and lack of production.  I like Alshon a lot, but this argument against our FO is a bit off-based. 

That front office is no longer the same thank God. Idzik is here now and he's not a f'ing moron like Tanny. I could guarantee that you've watched more gamecock football games than I did. I get my info primarily from youtube. I watch highlights and low lights, read articles here and there and I draw a conclusion. That may not satisfy some people, I say sometimes people are too close to "other" things outside of football which may sway their football decisions. We dont know what happened down there with that kid and South Carolina. I remember when Quinton Coples was coming out of North Carolina and the issues he had his last year. It didnt mean anything when he had a change of environment and became a NY Jet. Dude's been a stud since he's been here, but before the draft how many people on TV and on these forums was talking about how lazy and/or selfish Coples was? How he takes of plays etc. Rex Ryan looked at his football skills and said "this kid can ball, and when he needed to lay into Coples he'd do it right in the middle of a conference just to maintain Coples attention. Its worked. Thats in essence what I did with Jeffery regarding my evaluation of the WR position. Its not like Jeffery is some sort of headcase so all this nonsense is in fact that. Dude is ballin' right now while we're still trying to figure out how to get Hill to play up to that body frame and "potential". 

[Villain The Foe]

Jeffery's 218 yards breaks a Bears record

October, 6, 2013

OCT 6

7:30

PM ET

By Michael C. Wright | ESPN.com

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CHICAGO -- Second-year wide receiver Alshon Jeffery broke a 59-year-old Chicago Bears record in the team's 26-18 loss to the New Orleans Saints on Sunday by finishing with 218 yards on 10 receptions. 


Jeffery broke the previous single-game mark of 214 receiving yards set in 1954 by Harlon Hill, and became just the third player in franchise history to finish with 200 yards in game. Jeffery also established a career high in receptions (10), and has caught 15 passes for 325 yards and two touchdowns in his last two contests. 

“It’s not about what I did; it’s about what the team did, and we didn’t get the win,” Jeffery said. “So that’s what I focus on. I feel like what I did out there. … I’m more concerned about the W, not about what I did. It’s a team thing. There were eleven guys that took for me to get 200-plus yards or whatever I had.” 

On the season, Jeffery leads the team in receiving yardage (429 yards) and ranks second in receptions (28) behind Brandon Marshall. 

“Alshon Jeffery, man, he’s coming. That’s one of the reasons why I wanted to bring him down to South Florida with me, because of times like this,” Marshall said. “I didn’t think the season was gonna be like this, where it was gonna be hard to get me the ball. But at times, man, you need another guy on the other side. This guy had a career day; over 200 yards. It’s just awesome to see this guy mature right before your eyes. I’ve always said this guy can be one of the best that ever done it. He’s probably gonna shatter all the Bears records by the time he’s done at the receiver position. That’s one of the only positives from our offensive side today.”

 

For the record, given that this is Brandon Marshall's words I'll take it with a grain of salt. The point is, if we can talk about his words when calling him soft when he was a rookie, then we can also take his words into consideration after spending a year with his and training with him in the offseason. 

[pedro55]

That front office is no longer the same thank God. Idzik is here now and he's not a f'ing moron like Tanny. I could guarantee that you've watched more gamecock football games than I did. I get my info primarily from youtube. I watch highlights and low lights, read articles here and there and I draw a conclusion. That may not satisfy some people, I say sometimes people are too close to "other" things outside of football which may sway their football decisions. We dont know what happened down there with that kid and South Carolina. I remember when Quinton Coples was coming out of North Carolina and the issues he had his last year. It didnt mean anything when he had a change of environment and became a NY Jet. Dude's been a stud since he's been here, but before the draft how many people on TV and on these forums was talking about how lazy and/or selfish Coples was? How he takes of plays etc. Rex Ryan looked at his football skills and said "this kid can ball, and when he needed to lay into Coples he'd do it right in the middle of a conference just to maintain Coples attention. Its worked. Thats in essence what I did with Jeffery regarding my evaluation of the WR position. Its not like Jeffery is some sort of headcase so all this nonsense is in fact that. Dude is ballin' right now while we're still trying to figure out how to get Hill to play up to that body frame and "potential". 

 

  This entire thread makes little sense.  First you go on about how thank God idzik is here and how Tanny was a moron.   Then you go on a rant about some players and start talking about Coples being a trouble kid, but the Jets drafted him and the rest is history.  Except that Moron was still GM when the Jets drafted him.

[Villain The Foe]

  This entire thread makes little sense.  First you go on about how thank God idzik is here and how Tanny was a moron.   Then you go on a rant about some players and start talking about Coples being a trouble kid, but the Jets drafted him and the rest is history.  Except that Moron was still GM when the Jets drafted him.

It makes little sense to you because there's a sh*t load of things that make Tanny a moron, not just passing on Jeffery. Just look at the latest article posted about Idzik on Jetnation and how he handled negative issues such as Goodson. Tanny would have had the jets laundry all over the back of the NY Newspapers.

 

And as for Coples, Coples actually had the talent which is what Rex recognized. We're not talking about the debacle called Vernon Gholston here which Tanny was ALSO around for. 

 

Tanny's is a moron. 

[Jetscode1]

I disagree with this, Hill is already a better player in his 2nd year than Ducasse is in his (3rd...4th?) Hill has shown promise on the field several times, and most of the time he's spent on the bench is due to injury, not ineffectiveness like Ducasse. I don't think Hill will ever be a superstar, but he will be a solid #2 on the outside.

 

 

He's really turning into "that guy". The front office had Hill rated higher based on potential, not based on resume. 

 

I think the Jets front office then, whether the GM or the scouts, favored measurables over production.  That's why I can agree with Hess on the Vlad comparison.  Both raw with promise but without the polish.  When I look at Hill I see a fast straight line player that could develop.  With Jefferey I see I guy who might not seem as fast but his lateral agility and/or quickness is beyond what Hill offers.  The attitude is different as well.  Jefferey just seems more confident and competitive when the ball is in the air.  

[Jetscode1]

You don't have to sell me on his skills, I watched him probably more than most of you who are clamoring for him now, but acting like he just needed to drop some baby fat and clean up his diet is ridiculous.  He showed up to his last college season out of shape, refused to work out, was late to meetings, had his productivity cut in half and was routinely slammed by his coaches and players; and you think giving him a multi-million dollar contract is going to solve all of this?  Look at Dez Bryant, they needed a few seasons and a team of people to get him to mature, it's not a guarantee that Alshon was going to pan out.  There's a reason he fell so far after being considered the best WR talent in the draft, it's not just bad-luck. 

 

Additionally, everyone is dogging Hill's hands, but if you watched his combine, he absolutely killed it, especially with the Jugs machines and live action.  His drops that he's had are due to lack of concentration, the kid is superbly talented.  Would I have preferred Alshon knowing that he would get his sh*t together? Probably, but it's not something I'm going to crucify the FO for.  

 

You're playing monday morning quarterback at its finest; Bears fans were ready to toss this kid to the streets last year after he single-handedly lost them the GB game with two bone-headed PI calls, coupled with bad drops and lack of production.  I like Alshon a lot, but this argument against our FO is a bit off-based. 

 

Good point on this especially after this weekend and the play or lack there of Jadeveon Clowney this weekend.  College players have distractions and input from many sources.  Lately many are showing attitude when they know in a year they will get paid.  More and more we are seeing highly rated pro prospects putting themselves ahead of their college team.  Same comments on maturity issues with Coples or Geno the year they came out.  The front office needs to investigate these issues but I hope we are not crossing the guy off the board when a 20-year old acts immature.  Maybe the FO just had Hill and Jeffery rated even and went with the one with least concerns.   

[Villain The Foe]

I think the Jets front office then, whether the GM or the scouts, favored measurables over production.  That's why I can agree with Hess on the Vlad comparison.  Both raw with promise but without the polish.  When I look at Hill I see a fast straight line player that could develop.  With Jefferey I see I guy who might not seem as fast but his lateral agility and/or quickness is beyond what Hill offers.  The attitude is different as well.  Jefferey just seems more confident and competitive when the ball is in the air.  

I didnt think of it like that, good point. 

All I know is that Stephen Hill needs a big game tonight. This is the game where our skill players need to step up just to keep this close. Lets see what he puts on the field. Hopefully he shuts my mouth because in all honesty since he is a Jet I want him to succeed, but I am very critical of him right now. 

[stoicsentry]

I think the Jets front office then, whether the GM or the scouts, favored measurables over production.  That's why I can agree with Hess on the Vlad comparison.  Both raw with promise but without the polish.  When I look at Hill I see a fast straight line player that could develop.  With Jefferey I see I guy who might not seem as fast but his lateral agility and/or quickness is beyond what Hill offers.  The attitude is different as well.  Jefferey just seems more confident and competitive when the ball is in the air.  

 

I don't take much issue with what you say and if you just like Jeffery better than Hill then so be it. I can see why. Just, personally, it's not something that really concerns me.

 

There's a degree of difficulty in comparing these two. Cutler is a better QB than Geno or Sanchez, and Jeffery has had a bigger threat than Holmes opposite him in Marshall. I'm not sure if Jeffery has lost development time due to injury but Hill has.

 

To make a long story short, I would be just as happy with either of them on my team.

[vlmoney1]

Jeffery is playing great and I appreciate your love of they guy, but the fact is that plenty of guys had serious reservations about his work ethic.  Brandon Marshall called him soft.  He worked out well and you look good for touting him, but you can't blame a team for passing on a guy with a rep as a dog, especially one that just suffered through a season with Holmes, Burress and Mason.  They needed catches, but they also needed a guy that would keep his mouth shut and work hard.  

 

That's a lie Brandon Marshall didn't call him soft before this year started Alshon Jeffery worked out with Brandon Marshall over the summer and a reporter asked him before the season started whats Alshon's biggest improvement he said his body is stronger this year last year he was softer get it right and Alshon Jeffery is a humble kid who has worked hard

[vlmoney1]

You don't have to sell me on his skills, I watched him probably more than most of you who are clamoring for him now, but acting like he just needed to drop some baby fat and clean up his diet is ridiculous.  He showed up to his last college season out of shape, refused to work out, was late to meetings, had his productivity cut in half and was routinely slammed by his coaches and players; and you think giving him a multi-million dollar contract is going to solve all of this?  Look at Dez Bryant, they needed a few seasons and a team of people to get him to mature, it's not a guarantee that Alshon was going to pan out.  There's a reason he fell so far after being considered the best WR talent in the draft, it's not just bad-luck. 

 

Additionally, everyone is dogging Hill's hands, but if you watched his combine, he absolutely killed it, especially with the Jugs machines and live action.  His drops that he's had are due to lack of concentration, the kid is superbly talented.  Would I have preferred Alshon knowing that he would get his sh*t together? Probably, but it's not something I'm going to crucify the FO for.  

 

You're playing monday morning quarterback at its finest; Bears fans were ready to toss this kid to the streets last year after he single-handedly lost them the GB game with two bone-headed PI calls, coupled with bad drops and lack of production.  I like Alshon a lot, but this argument against our FO is a bit off-based. 

 

 

Alshon Jeffery didn't lose that game lol he didn't even have drops that game it was bad PI by the ref which were bogus we lost that game because our offense as a whole that game couldn't do nothing dumb comment

[Villain The Foe]

That's a lie Brandon Marshall didn't call him soft before this year started Alshon Jeffery worked out with Brandon Marshall over the summer and a reporter asked him before the season started whats Alshon's biggest improvement he said his body is stronger this year last year he was softer get it right and Alshon Jeffery is a humble kid who has worked hard

I appreciate you setting that straight. I take it you're a Bears fan??? Welcome to the forumz.

[JustInFudge]

Alshon Jeffery, 1 catch on 5 targets.

[Matt39]

Alshon Jeffery, 1 catch on 5 targets.

 

He's good though. He's way further along than Hill is.

[slats]

He's good though. He's way further along than Hill is.

Isn't that 100% to be expected, thought?

Jeffery was a much more polished product coming out of school, and joined an established Mike Martz offense with Jay Cutler at QB. Hill came into the league to not enjoy Tony Sporano's only season ever as an OC, in Mark Sanchez' final, worst season, and is now in a completely new (albeit, much better) system with a rookie QB.

Now, I'm not saying that if you swapped these guys, their production would swap, too - but I do think they'd probably be a little closer.

If Hill has tappable potential, and Geno can play, he should start reaching that potential this year under Mornhinweg.

[Greenseed4]

Isn't that 100% to be expected, thought?

Jeffery was a much more polished product coming out of school, and joined an established Mike Martz offense with Jay Cutler at QB. Hill came into the league to not enjoy Tony Sporano's only season ever as an OC, in Mark Sanchez' final, worst season, and is now in a completely new (albeit, much better) system with a rookie QB.

Now, I'm not saying that if you swapped these guys, their production would swap, too - but I do think they'd probably be a little closer.

If Hill has tappable potential, and Geno can play, he should start reaching that potential this year under Mornhinweg.

 

This is an excellent post.  Another approach is the following:

 

Stephen Hill amassed 49 receptions, for 1,248 yards, 9 TDs in his three years at Georgia Tech.

Alshon Jeffery topped that production in 2010 alone.

 

2009:  46 receptions, 763 yards, 6 TDs

2010: 88 receptions, 1,517, 9 TDs

2011:  49 receptions, 762, 8 TDs

 

Of course Jeffery is going to be further along in his development, he had a helluva head-start.