Stephen Hill....

[pointman]

Alshon Jeffery Vs. Saints: 10 catches 218 yards 1TD

Alshon Jeffery Vs. Lions: 5 catches 107 yards 1TD, 1 run for 27 yards.

 

 

His last two games he's put up 325 yards, 2 TD's on 15 catches and avg 21.5 yards a catch . Im still pissed that we didnt draft this dude.

I was thinking the same thing as I watched the highlights. He would have been a good one. 

[Villain The Foe]

Your failing to address the most important point I have made, Jeffrey is not being game planned for, and has another WR on the other side who gets doubled, and sometimes triple teamed leaving Jeffrey in 1 on 1 coverage with the 2nd CB, mean while the last time S HIll played he caught 3 passes for 110 yards, and a TD in the 1st half, and then the opposing team changed up coverage to double team Hill, and take him away, and the other WR went on to catch 5 balls for 150+ yards, and a game winning 69 yard TD pass in single coverage because yup Hill demanded a double team on the other side of the field.  Last week Smith laid Hill out to dry, and got him concussed on the 2nd play of the game.

Hill isnt being gameplanned for either and for all intents and purposes it is Holmes who is usually doubled leaving Hill with the 2nd CB. And the "change" in coverage during that bills game was just that, a change midway into the game. Alshon Jeffery is a better WR and the only thing the people continue to talk about is measurables because they've been compared to Thomas in Denver and Megatron when the reality is both Thomas and Megatron look fluent when playing the position while Hill looks like a 5'8 normal man trapped in a 6'4 freaks body. No body-control and many of his catches look like it took extra effort to even complete.

 

Say what you want, but it looks like what I seen in Jeffery is beginning to show up on the field.

[Villain The Foe]

I was thinking the same thing as I watched the highlights. He would have been a good one. 

Thank you Pointman. Seems like everyone else wants to fight with Villain over this. Tanny yet again made a bad decision by jumping ahead in the top of the 2nd and passing on the best WR available with the best hands in the draft. F'ing retarded. People keep bringing up potential and measurables but what I keep bringing up is Clyde Gates and the rest of these WR's outside of Holmes who cant consistently catch a football.

[CrazyCarl40]

Thank you Pointman. Seems like everyone else wants to fight with Villain over this. Tanny yet again made a bad decision by jumping ahead in the top of the 2nd and passing on the best WR available with the best hands in the draft. F'ing retarded. People keep bringing up potential and measurables but I keep bringing up is Clyde Gates and the rest of these WR's outside of Holmes who cant consistently catch a football.

Did you just post about yourself in the third person?

[Villain The Foe]

Did you just post about yourself in the third person?

lol I do that sometimes.

[dbatesman]

[pointman]

Thank you Pointman. Seems like everyone else wants to fight with Villain over this. Tanny yet again made a bad decision by jumping ahead in the top of the 2nd and passing on the best WR available with the best hands in the draft. F'ing retarded. People keep bringing up potential and measurables but what I keep bringing up is Clyde Gates and the rest of these WR's outside of Holmes who cant consistently catch a football.

Alshon was a real receiver. Hill was a fast kid who barely caught any balls at GT. I just don't get it. Fans of the SEC did nothing but sing Alshon's praises. He was ours for the taking. And we whiffed... again.

[Villain The Foe]

That fat ass is statiscially on pace to put up almost 1,400 yards and 8 TD's.

[pointman]

That fat ass is statiscially on pace to put up almost 1,400 yards and 8 TD's.

And Big Mo is on pace to get 16 sacks.

[#27TheDominator]

Hill isnt being gameplanned for either and for all intents and purposes it is Holmes who is usually doubled leaving Hill with the 2nd CB. And the "change" in coverage during that bills game was just that, a change midway into the game. Alshon Jeffery is a better WR and the only thing the people continue to talk about is measurables because they've been compared to Thomas in Denver and Megatron when the reality is both Thomas and Megatron look fluent when playing the position while Hill looks like a 5'8 normal man trapped in a 6'4 freaks body. No body-control and many of his catches look like it took extra effort to even complete.

 

Say what you want, but it looks like what I seen in Jeffery is beginning to show up on the field.

 

In the Bills game Hill was killing them and I saw one of those "game film review" pieces where they showed how the Bills started rolling a safety over Hill for the second half.  That is how Holmes ended up with 100 yards in the 2nd half.

[pointman]

Vernon Davis is a fast mofo. Dude that big that can move. Scary.

[Lupz27]

Hill isnt being gameplanned for either and for all intents and purposes it is Holmes who is usually doubled leaving Hill with the 2nd CB. And the "change" in coverage during that bills game was just that, a change midway into the game. Alshon Jeffery is a better WR and the only thing the people continue to talk about is measurables because they've been compared to Thomas in Denver and Megatron when the reality is both Thomas and Megatron look fluent when playing the position while Hill looks like a 5'8 normal man trapped in a 6'4 freaks body. No body-control and many of his catches look like it took extra effort to even complete.

 

Say what you want, but it looks like what I seen in Jeffery is beginning to show up on the field.

 

I am not knocking Jeffrey, I think he is one heck of a player, I am just defending S Hill, yes the Bills made the change in coverage midway through the game, but do you think for 1 second ANY D coordinator makes that move if Brandon Marshall is on the other side of the field?  Hell NO, why?  Because they know Marshall will then burn them on every single play that they don't double cover him plain, and simple.  You can't say that about Hill, yes Holmes did burn the Bills that week, but Smith is no Cutler, and Holmes is no where near the player Marshall is.  All I am saying is give Hill a chance, I mean the dude is killing it this year when he has been healthy, through the 1st 3 games he was on pace for 69 receptions, 1243 yards!  What else do you want from a 2nd RD pick in his 2nd year, in his 2nd offensive system, his 2nd QB, and the 2nd, and current QB is a rookie QB?

[Lupz27]

Thank you Pointman. Seems like everyone else wants to fight with Villain over this. Tanny yet again made a bad decision by jumping ahead in the top of the 2nd and passing on the best WR available with the best hands in the draft. F'ing retarded. People keep bringing up potential and measurables but what I keep bringing up is Clyde Gates and the rest of these WR's outside of Holmes who cant consistently catch a football.

 

 

Ok say the Jets drafted A Jeffrey, do you honestly believe he would have caught 15 passes for 325 yards, and 2 TD's?  Honestly with the offense the Jets have shown do you think changing Jeffrey out for Hill would be the difference?  Come on dude be real here, Calvin Johnson wouldn't have put up those numbers the way the Jets offense operated in that Tennessee, and NE games.

 

Again this is not a knock on Jeffrey, I just think your killing S Hill here for no reason, he isn't in the same situation that Jeffrey is, and he has shown enough here this year to think if he was he would be putting up similar numbers as Jeffrey if they flip flopped teams.

[Villain The Foe]

In the Bills game Hill was killing them and I saw one of those "game film review" pieces where they showed how the Bills started rolling a safety over Hill for the second half.  That is how Holmes ended up with 100 yards in the 2nd half.

Im not denying that bro, and Im not here saying that Hill is an absolute bust. What im saying is that dude isnt consistent.

Let me put it to you this way. The season ends, given Holmes antics he is no longer a Jet. We are left with Stephen Hill as our #1 while having to bank on free agency and the rookie draft to fix that OBVIOUS PROBLEM. This is not a good situation no matter how you slice it. To have a number 1 that doesnt have sure hands isnt good. The measurebles are there, the potential is there, but the inconsistency and poor route running is what is produced on the field. He had a great game and I praised him against the Bills. Im not hating on dude, however, to say that this is remotely a consistent thing would be a joke.

[pointman]

Ok say the Jets drafted A Jeffrey, do you honestly believe he would have caught 15 passes for 325 yards, and 2 TD's?  Honestly with the offense the Jets have shown do you think changing Jeffrey out for Hill would be the difference?  Come on dude be real here, Calvin Johnson wouldn't have put up those numbers the way the Jets offense operated in that Tennessee, and NE games.

 

Again this is not a knock on Jeffrey, I just think your killing S Hill here for no reason, he isn't in the same situation that Jeffrey is, and he has shown enough here this year to think if he was he would be putting up similar numbers as Jeffrey if they flip flopped teams.

Hill hasn't been exemplary in any facet, but has shown to be unreliable in the one task a receiver must do well.. receive. Alshon may not be a burner, or Megatron.. but he has been a solid solid receiver. Alshon wouldn't have gone all butterfingers against the Pats last season late, like one Mr. Hill. 

[Villain The Foe]

I am not knocking Jeffrey, I think he is one heck of a player, I am just defending S Hill, yes the Bills made the change in coverage midway through the game, but do you think for 1 second ANY D coordinator makes that move if Brandon Marshall is on the other side of the field?  Hell NO, why?  Because they know Marshall will then burn them on every single play that they don't double cover him plain, and simple.  You can't say that about Hill, yes Holmes did burn the Bills that week, but Smith is no Cutler, and Holmes is no where near the player Marshall is.  All I am saying is give Hill a chance, I mean the dude is killing it this year when he has been healthy, through the 1st 3 games he was on pace for 69 receptions, 1243 yards!  What else do you want from a 2nd RD pick in his 2nd year, in his 2nd offensive system, his 2nd QB, and the 2nd, and current QB is a rookie QB?

Easy, to do it two games in a row like Jeffery. Granted, he got injured on the first play of the game, however, I still need him to do it more than once. Jeffery is putting up numbers, not because of the measurables etc., but because he catches the football. I want a WR who will catch the football. If Hill gives you that type of confidence then you need to send some of that over this way because I dont have that yet.

[Villain The Foe]

Ok say the Jets drafted A Jeffrey, do you honestly believe he would have caught 15 passes for 325 yards, and 2 TD's?  Honestly with the offense the Jets have shown do you think changing Jeffrey out for Hill would be the difference?  Come on dude be real here, Calvin Johnson wouldn't have put up those numbers the way the Jets offense operated in that Tennessee, and NE games.

 

Again this is not a knock on Jeffrey, I just think your killing S Hill here for no reason, he isn't in the same situation that Jeffrey is, and he has shown enough here this year to think if he was he would be putting up similar numbers as Jeffrey if they flip flopped teams.

Probably not, but I sure as heck do believe that he would have caught that crucial pass last year against New England to seal the victory. See what I did there?

[Villain The Foe]

Hill hasn't been exemplary in any facet, but has shown to be unreliable in the one task a receiver must do well.. receive. Alshon may not be a burner, or Megatron.. but he has been a solid solid receiver. Alshon wouldn't have gone all butterfingers against the Pats last season late, like one Mr. Hill. 

You're seriously on a role right now. Couldnt have said that better myself. You're getting where im coming from. Its the fundamentals of the position that you must grasp before we even entertain things like "measureables and ceiling". Alshon Jeffery can run a route, catch a ball, get up and do it over again. Can we say that for Hill? No. What we can say is that his body type reminds us of a freak. Who the heck cares if you cant consistently do what WR's are supposed to do just being a WR?

[pointman]

You're seriously on a role right now. Couldnt have said that better myself. You're getting where im coming from. Its the fundamentals of the position that you must grasp before we even entertain things like "measureables and ceiling". Alshon Jeffery can run a route, catch a ball, get up and do it over again. Can we say that for Hill? No. What we can say is that his body type reminds us of a freak. Who the heck cares if you cant consistently do what WR's are supposed to do just being a WR?

Speed, being an "athlete", and that stuff is sweet.. as a bonus. If a guy isn't a proven receiver with hands, he is useless. Soft example, Hill. Hard example, Gates. Two guys, fast, "athletes", poor hands... useless.

[Lupz27]

Im not denying that bro, and Im not here saying that Hill is an absolute bust. What im saying is that dude isnt consistent.

Let me put it to you this way. The season ends, given Holmes antics he is no longer a Jet. We are left with Stephen Hill as our #1 while having to bank on free agency and the rookie draft to fix that OBVIOUS PROBLEM. This is not a good situation no matter how you slice it. To have a number 1 that doesnt have sure hands isnt good. The measurebles are there, the potential is there, but the inconsistency and poor route running is what is produced on the field. He had a great game and I praised him against the Bills. Im not hating on dude, however, to say that this is remotely a consistent thing would be a joke.

 

For the record, After week 4 Jeffrey had 2 dropped passes on 33 targets this year, and Hill has 1 dropped pass on 32 targets, maybe Hill's inconsistency can be chalked up to his offense this year.  I'll say this I will take Cutler, and Jeffrey over Geno, and Hill every time, and I would take Cutler, and Hill over Geno, and Jeffrey every time to, so this is where the main problem lies in you killing Hill, while praising Jeffrey, yes Jeffrey deserves the praise, but I don't think your criticism of Hill is called for, and is incorrect, thats all, I am done now, won't argue the point anymore, don't want it to look like I am attacking you, I am not, just defending Hill.  All of your praise about Jeffrey I agree with.

[Villain The Foe]

Speed, being an "athlete", and that stuff is sweet.. as a bonus. If a guy isn't a proven receiver with hands, he is useless. Soft example, Hill. Hard example, Gates. Two guys, fast, "athletes", poor hands... useless.

True. Yet look at guys like Larry Fitzgerald. Dude has never been a "blow the top off of a defense" WR yet his hands are arguably the best in the business which has always made him one of the best in the business. Throw anything in his direction and its caught. This is how you help out a young mark sanchez/geno smith....with "sure things". Give them sure hands to build that confidence, give them a safty valve. Tanny was trying to break the bank with that pick and decided to leave an established talent on the table for an unknown. Thats not smart management, especially if you have "needs". Leave picks like that to teams like a Greenbay or New Orleans.

[Villain The Foe]

For the record, After week 4 Jeffrey had 2 dropped passes on 33 targets this year, and Hill has 1 dropped pass on 32 targets, maybe Hill's inconsistency can be chalked up to his offense this year.  I'll say this I will take Cutler, and Jeffrey over Geno, and Hill every time, and I would take Cutler, and Hill over Geno, and Jeffrey every time to, so this is where the main problem lies in you killing Hill, while praising Jeffrey, yes Jeffrey deserves the praise, but I don't think your criticism of Hill is called for, and is incorrect, thats all, I am done now, won't argue the point anymore, don't want it to look like I am attacking you, I am not, just defending Hill.  All of your praise about Jeffrey I agree with.

cool, but for the record, your example only shows me that no matter the situation you'd take Cutler. What im saying is if I had a choice between Geno and Hill or Geno and Jeffery I'd take the latter.

[Lupz27]

cool, but for the record, your example only shows me that no matter the situation you'd take Cutler. What im saying is if I had a choice between Geno and Hill or Geno and Jeffery I'd take the latter.

 

I got that, my point is I don't believe you can declare one better than the other because of the situations they are in, impossible to compare when both have only played under 16 games in their NFL careers, and 1 has a far superior supporting cast then the other.  I think both will turn out to be awesome NFL WR's, and this argument will end up being for not lol.

[#27TheDominator]

Easy, to do it two games in a row like Jeffery. Granted, he got injured on the first play of the game, however, I still need him to do it more than once. Jeffery is putting up numbers, not because of the measurables etc., but because he catches the football. I want a WR who will catch the football. If Hill gives you that type of confidence then you need to send some of that over this way because I dont have that yet.

 

It's a strange time to complain about Hill.  His last three games were 90 yards 100 yards and knocked out by a fine worthy helmet to helmet hit.  Jeffery had a monster game, but were you ranting like this after week 3 when Jeffery was averaging 35 ypg?  

[Villain The Foe]

I got that, my point is I don't believe you can declare one better than the other because of the situations they are in, impossible to compare when both have only played under 16 games in their NFL careers, and 1 has a far superior supporting cast then the other.  I think both will turn out to be awesome NFL WR's, and this argument will end up being for not lol.

I think I can if I want to. What I actually cant do is make someone see it my way. That would make things much easier lol.

[Villain The Foe]

It's a strange time to complain about Hill.  His last three games were 90 yards 100 yards and knocked out by a fine worthy helmet to helmet hit.  Jeffery had a monster game, but were you ranting like this after week 3 when Jeffery was averaging 35 ypg?  

Dude, I've been ranting about Jeffery since  before draft day. Where you been? One thing this forum can say is that I've been a supporter of Jeffery from the start. Dude has put together 2 consecutive century marks as well as two consecutive games with TD's. Hill is still working on that.

[Smashmouth]

True. Yet look at guys like Larry Fitzgerald. Dude has never been a "blow the top off of a defense" WR yet his hands are arguably the best in the business which has always made him one of the best in the business. Throw anything in his direction and its caught. This is how you help out a young mark sanchez/geno smith....with "sure things". Give them sure hands to build that confidence, give them a safty valve. Tanny was trying to break the bank with that pick and decided to leave an established talent on the table for an unknown. Thats not smart management, especially if you have "needs". Leave picks like that to teams like a Greenbay or New Orleans.

Villain this is exactly right.

 

When you look at teams like the Saints, Green Bay, the Colts with Manning and now Luck, the Patriots ( ill get back to the Pats to make my point) you have teams that have solid players at just about every offensive skill position that have played together in a system for years and years. When you look at the Jets they have never established anything on offense at all. I have a hard time Just blaming the QB like some around here do. Its not just about the QB its about the entire offense from the coaching to the players and the system they are in. In those other offenses mentioned since you have numerous options its VERY EASY to plug a player in and have him play at a decent level . When you play a team like the Broncos, who exactly do you focus on as a defense ? every single position is stacked, now on top of that they have a young emerging TE. They are impossible to cover and Peyton brings out just about all they can be. Rewind back to when Peyton was looking for a job , if he chooses the Jets is he even remotely close to what he is now ? Nope he's not even close hell it might have put an end to his career

 

The saying around here is the QB makes it all happen which is total bullsh*t. You add a guy like Stephen Hill to the Broncos and I would be willing to bet he emerges much faster not because of Manning but because of all the other players defenses must account for. You add him to the Saints who in addition to damn good WR's and an incredible TE they also have 3 backs who can catch the football making it easy for Brees to do just about anything he wants. Hill would fit right in as would just about any WR in the NFL. You look at the Jets and its almost laughable in comparison.

 

Now we have all seen Tom Brady and the Pats plug in one player here and there for years and they all play well BUT now that Belichick has totally decimated his WR corp. by being a complete IDIOT whats been happening to TOM BRADY ?? Its very hard to plug in 3 or 4 guys for ANY QB but I guess Belichick had the same philosophy as some around these forums. You know, that Brady can make all around him better. Adding one guy sure, adding 3 or 4 and taking away your top target you spent years cultivating a solid football relationship with, not happening.

 

The reason QB's like Brees Rodgers Manning probably now Luck do well is because their teams don't just dump their TOP WR's they ADD to them keeping them constantly surrounded by talent . Sure the QB has to perform, and some can't even cut it even with a lot of talent, but it certainly makes it a lot easier

 

Now look at the Jets over the past 14 years starting with the trading of Keyshawn Johnson . And the moves they made with Coles and Moss . Then look at what they did to Sanchez who seemed to be developing a nice repoire with Edwards . Rather than adding a WR to the Edwards/Holmes/Cotchery mix they Dumped the 2 guys who seemed to have good attitudes signed the moron Holmes to a ridiculous contract then signed 2 loudmouth assholes one out of prision and one who complained incessantly and expected a QB who was just starting to make some strides to handle the situation like a Peyton Manning. In doing so I think they made a huge mistake and while Sanchez did start to put up some good numbers his third year his Mistakes went off the charts.

 

The Jets have not had a good system in place, they have not had smart players in place, they have not had good talent in place and they expect a QB (especially a young one) to succeed. Its not happening. Its didn't happen for Penny it didn't happen for Sanchez and its not going to happen for Geno who has his own issues of ball security to deal with Just like his predecessor.

 

Mornhinwig is a good start but lets face it this offense needs an infusion of talent at just about every skill position and you can get ready to take another QB in next years draft . Bandaids like Ivory and Goodson simply don't cut it. Powell in a nice surprise though

[#27TheDominator]

^

Great example. 

 

Too bad the Jets didn't get a guy like Larry Fitzgerald.  That is just what you need to develop a young QB.  That worked out very well for Leinart, Kolb, Skelton, Hoyer, Lindley...

 

 

Dude, I've been ranting about Jeffery since  before draft day. Where you been? One thing this forum can say is that I've been a supporter of Jeffery from the start. Dude has put together 2 consecutive century marks as well as two consecutive games with TD's. Hill is still working on that.

 

I know that, but did you come here crowing after the first three weeks Hill was playing better than Jeffery?  The season is early and the guy is catching balls from Jay Cutler with Marshall pulling coverage. How do you think he would have fared in NY when his teammates were referring to him as "soft" in Chicago? Hill was a project and Jeffery a fat lazy "polished" receiver and they had very similar rookie years.  We'll see what happens from here. 

[Smashmouth]

^

Great example. 

 

Too bad the Jets didn't get a guy like Larry Fitzgerald.  That is just what you need to develop a young QB.  That worked out very well for Leinart, Kolb, Skelton, Hoyer, Lindley...

 

 

 

I know that, but did you come here crowing after the first three weeks Hill was playing better than Jeffery?  The season is early and the guy is catching balls from Jay Cutler with Marshall pulling coverage. How do you think he would have fared in NY when his teammates were referring to him as "soft" in Chicago? Hill was a project and Jeffery a fat lazy "polished" receiver and they had very similar rookie years.  We'll see what happens from here. 

 

For what its worth Dom I don't think any of those QB's are worth a sh*t. Just because you have talent on offense does not mean every QB comes in and succeeds

[#27TheDominator]

For what its worth Dom I don't think any of those QB's are worth a sh*t. Just because you have talent on offense does not mean every QB comes in and succeeds

 

And just because a QB succeeds doesn't mean the QB is worth a sh*t.  IMO a running game and defense is more important to a young QB than "weapnz" 

[Smashmouth]

And just because a QB succeeds doesn't mean the QB is worth a sh*t.  IMO a running game and defense is more important to a young QB than "weapnz" 

 

I agree Dom 100% but at some point you need to give a young QB a big possession type WR to move the chains someone they can depend on ....Name me one big possession type WR the Jets have had since dumping Keyshawn ..just one . Closest we came was Braylon in 2010 when he finally stopped dropping the football. Then we dumped him the next year

[Villain The Foe]

^

Great example. 

 

Too bad the Jets didn't get a guy like Larry Fitzgerald.  That is just what you need to develop a young QB.  That worked out very well for Leinart, Kolb, Skelton, Hoyer, Lindley...

 

 

 

I know that, but did you come here crowing after the first three weeks Hill was playing better than Jeffery?  The season is early and the guy is catching balls from Jay Cutler with Marshall pulling coverage. How do you think he would have fared in NY when his teammates were referring to him as "soft" in Chicago? Hill was a project and Jeffery a fat lazy "polished" receiver and they had very similar rookie years.  We'll see what happens from here. 

It didnt work out for those guys because that team wasnt as put together as the Jets. The Cards had a revolving door for an offensive line. The Jets had one of the best lines in football. So when you say things like this above you're taking it out of context because Im speaking of what the Jets already had and not some other teams QB problems/team problems. 

 

And it didnt matter what his teammates thought of him in chicago because my feelings on him never wavered. And the same people who was calling him soft not too long ago are now becoming "fans". So no, I probably didnt say anything in the "first 3 weeks", but the overall trend was always there which was "we should have drafted this guy". So I didnt have to do all of that. 

[#27TheDominator]

It didnt work out for those guys because that team wasnt as put together as the Jets. The Cards had a revolving door for an offensive line. The Jets had one of the best lines in football. So when you say things like this above you're taking it out of context because Im speaking of what the Jets already had and not some other teams QB problems/team problems. 

 

And it didnt matter what his teammates thought of him in chicago because my feelings on him never wavered. And the same people who was calling him soft not too long ago are now becoming "fans". So no, I probably didnt say anything in the "first 3 weeks", but the overall trend was always there which was "we should have drafted this guy". So I didnt have to do all of that. 

 

 

Jeffery is playing great and I appreciate your love of they guy, but the fact is that plenty of guys had serious reservations about his work ethic.  Brandon Marshall called him soft.  He worked out well and you look good for touting him, but you can't blame a team for passing on a guy with a rep as a dog, especially one that just suffered through a season with Holmes, Burress and Mason.  They needed catches, but they also needed a guy that would keep his mouth shut and work hard.  

[Villain The Foe]

Jeffery is playing great and I appreciate your love of they guy, but the fact is that plenty of guys had serious reservations about his work ethic.  Brandon Marshall called him soft.  He worked out well and you look good for touting him, but you can't blame a team for passing on a guy with a rep as a dog, especially one that just suffered through a season with Holmes, Burress and Mason.  They needed catches, but they also needed a guy that would keep his mouth shut and work hard.  

 

Brandon Marshall called him soft, I bet if Jeffery was a women Marshall probably would have smacked him around for being so soft because that is Marshalls M.O. right.....hitting women? Trust me, Marshall calling a man "soft" is an absolute joke to me. 

 

Now dont get me wrong, I totally get what you're saying, but what other people say, especially people with a rap sheet like Marshall, should be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

as for the "rep as a dog", that would be news to me. All I know is that I seen talent on the field, something that would have been a value to this team. Hill has been decent but my feeling is simply that I still dont believe in him yet, more than it is the people contrary to my point of view being wrong. I dont believe you guys are wrong, I could never prove that. I just feel that we talk about his measurables during topics like this but when its right after a game we talk about how he doesnt even use that frame or speed etc. We only mention these things as "pros" when we talk about Jeffery. Not saying you specifically, but we cant have it both ways. 

[HessStation]

Hill will always be good for a few great plays and a few head scratchers. He's not a football player w amazing skills. He no different than what Ducasse brings at OG. You're banking on like, a 5% chance that it will all just click someday. So mid level teams like the Jets will sit and wait w their fingers crossed taking the good with the bad.