milliner, geno, & winters

[Villain The Foe]

 He played well after they were already eliminated.  When the season was on the line and the Jets controlled their own destiny, Geno and the Jets sucked.  

 

   And he played well against a Dolphins team who got shut out against the Bills the week before and played well against the Raiders and Browns teams who gave up months ago.   So it was good to see him get better, but his best play was against teams who seemed to have already given up.

He played well after they were eliminated....so what? The Fins werent eliminated, matter of fact, that was a playoff game for them. The Panthers were playing for home field. Smith in his last four games threw for a 59% completion rate. 

 

This statement is precisely what im talking about with Geno haters. Im not denying that the kid has looked bad, but you guys keep coming up with excuses after excuses when the kid showed some promise. 

[joewillie78]

Show me a group of rookies the past 5 years (4 or more QB's) that have thrown for 300 yards, 4TD's, no picks with a QBR in the 80's and 90's during a 4 game stretch. Do that and i'll shut up. Plain and simple. I'll be right here waiting for it too. 

Andrew Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger,Joe Flacco, Colin Kaaepernick, Cam Newton etc.

[Villain The Foe]

Andrew Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger,Joe Flacco, Colin Kaaepernick, Cam Newton etc.

 

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[sourceworx]

I don't worship Rex. I think he's a pretty good coach, better than most this franchise has had, and better than a lot of options out there. That's all. The strong emotions about Rex come from those who hate him.

I don't put the backup QB moves on him (and McElroy was drafted by the Jets), I put them primarily on the GMs. Idzik needs to bring in two QBs this offseason, IMO. One veteran capable of starting, and one rookie capable of developing. This is absolutely not the year I'd trade up for another rookie QB, though. That time could come as soon as 2015, but this year I'd give Geno a shot with some receiving help and legitimate veteran competition.

I completely agree. Get some weapons for the offense, plus a veteran QB to compete in camp for the starting job. Then go QB in the middle rounds, unless one of the top prospects falls in our lap at the right time, the way Geno did.

[Villain The Foe]

Andrew Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger,Joe Flacco, Colin Kaaepernick, Cam Newton etc.

"Etc." is what you put at the end of your statement lmao??? Dude, NONE of the QB's that you mentioned did such a thing. Why are you reaching  so much simply to s**t on your own QB? 

 

Colin Kaepernick: He never even threw a TD in his rookie season, and if you count his second season (which isnt his rookie season) he had one game that he threw 4 TD's but with an INT and he never threw for 300 yards that year either. 

Russell Wilson: Threw 4 TD's one time his rookie year with 1 int and less than 300 yds....actually he only threw for 171 yards! 

 

Cam Newton: Never threw 4 TD's in a game at all his rookie year. 

 

Ben Roethlisberger: Never threw 4TD's his rookie year. He threw for 300 yards one time his rookie season but threw 1TD and 2 Int's. As an add-on, he never even threw for 3TD's in a game his rookie year, Geno actually did that on Monday night football vs. ATL. 

 

Andrew Luck: Had 1 game where he threw for 300 yards and 4 TD's with 0 Int's. However, his QBR was a 62.5 and they lost the game, so noooo....he also didnt do it. 

 

RG3: He never threw for 4 TD's in a game his rookie year. 

 

Did you think that I wasnt going to look this up or something? For the record, give your QB Geno some slack, but if you want to continue on with the nonsense you can name the rest of those QB's that you were thinking about when you said "etc."

[Maxman]

Wait, are we still hoping that Geno turns into RGIII?  Hopefully we have the bar set higher than that.

[pedro55]

"Etc." is what you put at the end of your statement lmao??? Dude, NONE of the QB's that you mentioned did such a thing. Why are you reaching  so much simply to s**t on your own QB? 

 

Colin Kaepernick: He never even threw a TD in his rookie season, and if you count his second season (which isnt his rookie season) he had one game that he threw 4 TD's but with an INT and he never threw for 300 yards that year either. 

Russell Wilson: Threw 4 TD's one time his rookie year with 1 int and less than 300 yds....actually he only threw for 171 yards! 

 

Cam Newton: Never threw 4 TD's in a game at all his rookie year. 

 

Ben Roethlisberger: Never threw 4TD's his rookie year. He threw for 300 yards one time his rookie season but threw 1TD and 2 Int's. As an add-on, he never even threw for 3TD's in a game his rookie year, Geno actually did that on Monday night football vs. ATL. 

 

Andrew Luck: Had 1 game where he threw for 300 yards and 4 TD's with 0 Int's. However, his QBR was a 62.5 and they lost the game, so noooo....he also didnt do it. 

 

RG3: He never threw for 4 TD's in a game his rookie year. 

 

Did you think that I wasnt going to look this up or something? For the record, give your QB Geno some slack, but if you want to continue on with the nonsense you can name the rest of those QB's that you were thinking about when you said "etc."

 

 

  This is about the dumbest argument I've ever heard in my life.    Matt Flynn threw how many TDs in one game?  What the hell does that mean?  Nothing.

 Nobody goes by one stupid game.  They go by an entire season.    Wilson had a 26 TD and 10 INT rookie year.   Cam Newton had like 25 TDs.      Geno Smith?  He had a 13 TD and 20+ Interception kind of year.     So great he had a good game, but was competing to be the leader in turnovers for the year.  

 

  Throwing out lines like Geno was better than Cam or Russell or Kapernick or Luck and so on is just fishing.

[stoicsentry]

   And he played well against a Dolphins team who got shut out against the Bills the week before

 

Agreed: the Dolphins got shutout by the Bills and Geno had a pretty good game against their defense the next week. What does one of those things have to do with the other?

[Villain The Foe]

  This is about the dumbest argument I've ever heard in my life.    Matt Flynn threw how many TDs in one game?  What the hell does that mean?  Nothing.

 Nobody goes by one stupid game.  They go by an entire season.    Wilson had a 26 TD and 10 INT rookie year.   Cam Newton had like 25 TDs.      Geno Smith?  He had a 13 TD and 20+ Interception kind of year.     So great he had a good game, but was competing to be the leader in turnovers for the year.  

 

  Throwing out lines like Geno was better than Cam or Russell or Kapernick or Luck and so on is just fishing.

The argument was only dumb because you werent paying attention to how the conversation originated and what was said before you decided to call me dumb. If you were paying attention then you would know that the stats presented wasnt to compare Geno to those QB's or that TD's in one game meant something given that there was much more to the conversation that you obviously didnt pay attention to. I will not take the time out to explain this to you, what I will say is that before you start throwing around insults you need to read through the thread to keep up with the conversation. Either that or just mind your business, sit back in your corner and keep your insults to yourself. 

[joewillie78]

  This is about the dumbest argument I've ever heard in my life.    Matt Flynn threw how many TDs in one game?  What the hell does that mean?  Nothing.

 Nobody goes by one stupid game.  They go by an entire season.    Wilson had a 26 TD and 10 INT rookie year.   Cam Newton had like 25 TDs.      Geno Smith?  He had a 13 TD and 20+ Interception kind of year.     So great he had a good game, but was competing to be the leader in turnovers for the year.  

 

  Throwing out lines like Geno was better than Cam or Russell or Kapernick or Luck and so on is just fishing.

Bingo. Way to bail me out.

[Villain The Foe]

Bingo. Way to bail me out.

Lol his genaric azz didn't bail you out. I'm still waiting on those 4 qb's!

[joewillie78]

Lol his genaric azz didn't bail you out. I'm still waiting on those 4 qb's!

OK, Ive forgotten what we were discussing. Please refresh my memory on the parameters that these QB's I am to provide meet.

 

Was it that they had to have thrown for 300 yards and 4Tds, and no picks in their rookie years? Or did they have to do it so many times in that year, or in consecutive weeks?

 

Also, just rookies in say the past 5 years or all time?

[Villain The Foe]

Sorry, but until he does something to dissuade me from making the inevitable comparison, you know like throw for 300 yards, 4Tds, no picks, QBR's in the 80's and 90's, and do it for more than a 2 or 3 game stretch, and be consistently good instead of consistently bad, then I will stop with that comparison, but his stats this year were amazingly similar, and looked similar to the USC bust.

 

 

Show me a group of rookies the past 5 years (4 or more QB's) that have thrown for 300 yards, 4TD's, no picks with a QBR in the 80's and 90's during a 4 game stretch. Do that and i'll shut up. Plain and simple. I'll be right here waiting for it too. 

 

 

Andrew Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger,Joe Flacco, Colin Kaaepernick, Cam Newton etc.

 

 

OK, Ive forgotten what we were discussing. Please refresh my memory on the parameters that these QB's I am to provide meet.

 

Was it that they had to have thrown for 300 yards and 4Tds, and no picks in their rookie years? Or did they have to do it so many times in that year, or in consecutive weeks?

 

Also, just rookies in say the past 5 years or all time?

Above is the start of the combo. None of those QB's ever did what you stated or was expecting from Geno. None of them ever threw for 300yds, 4td's 0int's with a an 80 or 90QBR and did it for multiple games. None of them did it for even one game during their rookie year. 

 

Now you can definitively say that every QB u mentioned outside of Colin had a better rookie year. But you can also say that every one of those rookies had a better offensive team with better WR's/TE's surrounding them by a LONG SHOT!

 

My ultimate point is simply to cut Geno some slack. I'm not saying to accept failure, no...I'm simply saying to look at the circumstance. 

[joewillie78]

Above is the start of the combo. None of those QB's ever did what you stated or was expecting from Geno. None of them ever threw for 300yds, 4td's 0int's with a an 80 or 90QBR and did it for multiple games. None of them did it for even one game during their rookie year. 

 

Now you can definitively say that every QB u mentioned outside of Colin had a better rookie year. But you can also say that every one of those rookies had a better offensive team with better WR's/TE's surrounding them by a LONG SHOT!

 

My ultimate point is simply to cut Geno some slack. I'm not saying to accept failure, no...I'm simply saying to look at the circumstance. 

You know, the lack of weapons "argument" is valid to a point, but just yesterday, I watch ANDREW LUCK, with his #1 weapon on the sidelines in a suit, and I watch him again throw lasers to guys I have never heard of. Yes, TY HILTON is a talent, but again, he has Luck throwing to him, then he has this dude named Griffith Whelan (who the annoucers say runs a 4.8 40, and was a walk on in COLLEGE), and to tell you the truth, besides Colby Fleener, and the Oakland castoff Darious Haywood Bey, I cant even remember the other weapons he was throwing too.

 

You put LUCK on the Jets and he makes Kerley, and Holmes pro-bowlers, and Cumberland an Winslow easily combine for a 1000 yrads.

 

Sorry, but the QB makes the weapons. I have seen Brady do it, Rodgers do it, Manning do it. GUYS I have never heard of and they become household names with these guys slinging it.

 

Sorry also, but when I watch GENO, I have flashbacks of #6, and that is very scary to watch.

[Villain The Foe]

You know, the lack of weapons "argument" is valid to a point, but just yesterday, I watch ANDREW LUCK, with his #1 weapon on the sidelines in a suit, and I watch him again throw lasers to guys I have never heard of. Yes, TY HILTON is a talent, but again, he has Luck throwing to him, then he has this dude named Griffith Whelan (who the annoucers say runs a 4.8 40, and was a walk on in COLLEGE), and to tell you the truth, besides Colby Fleener, and the Oakland castoff Darious Haywood Bey, I cant even remember the other weapons he was throwing too.

 

You put LUCK on the Jets and he makes Kerley, and Holmes pro-bowlers, and Cumberland an Winslow easily combine for a 1000 yrads.

 

Sorry, but the QB makes the weapons. I have seen Brady do it, Rodgers do it, Manning do it. GUYS I have never heard of and they become household names with these guys slinging it.

 

Sorry also, but when I watch GENO, I have flashbacks of #6, and that is very scary to watch.

Like I said, show me those 4 qb's and I'll shut up! You won't find them, I promise you. Now on to your statement, Andrew Luck is simply a better QB than Geno (right now). But Luck was the one making those terrible mistakes yesterday, not the WR's. Yes, Lucks #1 is out, but the talent around him is still way better than what Geno has, on top of the fact that he has history with these guys...Geno was a rookie and half the year his WR's during gametime was unemployed just a week ago. The Jets had the worst offense at the skillset posistion in the league. That's an absolute fact. Kerley was rated the 106th best WR in the league at one point and HE was Geno's best weapon lol. You are not trying to see this for what it is. Geno isn't Luck but Indy's talent isn't depleted Like NY, and Geno almost made the playoffs if it wasn't for Kerley getting hurt. Give credit dude.

 

As a final point. Luck's #1 may be out but he still works with the WR's, giving them pointers. Look how Milliner progressed the moment we signed Reed, a veteran. You talk about how Luck would have made Kerley and Holmes a probowler, its possible, but this is yet again what im talking about with you. You want a Russell Wilson/Andrew Luck guy who comes straight out of College and is "the sh*t". The NFL doesnt work like that dude. Most of the time you have to put time and effort into these players. All you're doing is looking at the glass half empty while being envious of other teams who either made a great pick (Seahawks, Eagles) or purposely tanked their season (Colts) to get these QB's you think of. Geno will be fine if he gets options to throw to at WR. Also, even when Holmes was a Steeler he was never a probowler. He happened to have a damn good drive in the Superbowl and it inflated his stock. Not saying that he was a bad WR, but even when he was with a SB winning QB Holmes wasnt a pro bowler, so you're dealing on dreams in your head and not the facts on the field. Luck himself isnt even a probowler and he just now one his first playoff game by a VERY FORTUNATE fumble bounce. 

[ZachEY]

No QB in this draft or next years draft will be Andrew Luck. Geno, even if he improves tremendously, will never be Andrew Luck. Why is this conversation happening?

[Villain The Foe]

No QB in this draft or next years draft will be Andrew Luck. Geno, even if he improves tremendously, will never be Andrew Luck. Why is this conversation happening?

Its happening because Joe said something absolutely ridiculous stat-wise and when I called him out to show proof he couldnt. I would never disagree with people who say that Geno didnt have a great season and a rather horrible November, but when people make it out to be Geno being the offensive problem thats when I have to step in especially seeing what Geno had to work with. 

[flgreen]

No QB in this draft or next years draft will be Andrew Luck. Geno, even if he improves tremendously, will never be Andrew Luck. Why is this conversation happening?

 

Your right about this years draft, but there is a fair chance that Winston comes out next year.  I think the kid is going to be great

[ZachEY]

Your right about this years draft, but there is a fair chance that Winston comes out next year.  I think the kid is going to be great

 

Well, he's turned the ball over and is down 21-3.  Lets see how much Andrew Luck he's got in him.

[ZachEY]

Its happening because Joe said something absolutely ridiculous stat-wise and when I called him out to show proof he couldnt. I would never disagree with people who say that Geno didnt have a great season and a rather horrible November, but when people make it out to be Geno being the offensive problem thats when I have to step in especially seeing what Geno had to work with. 

 

Oh I agree.  You're right here again.  (VOM)  But, the point is, even if Andrew Luck does something, that's not really a measure for Geno.  Because, Geno won't be Andrew Luck, ever.  But, that shouldn't be the bar for him, because Luck is already one of the league's best and when the old guard is gone, Luck will stand out even more.

[Villain The Foe]

Oh I agree.  You're right here again.  (VOM)  But, the point is, even if Andrew Luck does something, that's not really a measure for Geno.  Because, Geno won't be Andrew Luck, ever.  But, that shouldn't be the bar for him, because Luck is already one of the league's best and when the old guard is gone, Luck will stand out even more.

Luck as well as the rest of the guys that Joe mentioned are great talents. I think that Geno needs to be coached up, developed. Nothing wrong with this. I feel like fans treat developing players like the flu. No one wants it lol. 

 

My problem has always been the one-sidedness when it comes to Geno. Statistically I can totally agree with the negativity, but to not take into account his surroundings, or to make it seem like it didnt matter??? Its been atleast 3 weeks since I asked and im STILL waiting for someone to tell me who had a worse offense at the skillset position than the Jets. There was no team, and even if there was I bet they didnt go 8-8 for the year. Its not like Geno pulled a Matt Shaub with all that talent on offense.

 

For what Geno had available to him im excited to see what we could put on the field with him next year. 

[pedro55]

Luck as well as the rest of the guys that Joe mentioned are great talents. I think that Geno needs to be coached up, developed. Nothing wrong with this. I feel like fans treat developing players like the flu. No one wants it lol. 

 

My problem has always been the one-sidedness when it comes to Geno. Statistically I can totally agree with the negativity, but to not take into account his surroundings, or to make it seem like it didnt matter??? Its been atleast 3 weeks since I asked and im STILL waiting for someone to tell me who had a worse offense at the skillset position than the Jets. There was no team, and even if there was I bet they didnt go 8-8 for the year. Its not like Geno pulled a Matt Shaub with all that talent on offense.

 

For what Geno had available to him im excited to see what we could put on the field with him next year. 

 

 

 This no Talent argument doesn't work.    Yes on offense, the jets stink and they don't have any playmakers.  But many teams would take the Jets defense over their own defense.   It's a team game, so when your defense only allows 20 points and a guy like Andrew Luck or the Tony Romo's of the world's defense are giving up 30+ points, it puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the QB to be a gun slinger.      And talking about the Colts,  I'd take Ivory over Donald Brown or Trent Richardson.    

 

  So yeah Geno didn't have a talented offense around him, but he had a better running game then the Dolphins, Colts and quite a few other teams.     He also had a better defense than half the teams in the NFL.   So when the offense only needs 21 points to win a game,  there is some talent on the team, it's just not offensive talent.     

 

 This 'No talent" argument gets old in a sport where some QBs and offenses need to throw 4 TDs every week and score 40 points just to win a game.  Geno and crew only needed to score 18 points in a win,  14 points in another game and so on.   I think he deserves another chance and I think the Jets need offensive weapons, but saying there is no talent is a weak argument.  

 

 What makes the argument a bad one is Geno didn't need to be a gunslinger, he didn't need to throw 4 TDs every week, and they didn't need to score 40 points to win games.  Hell, they only needed 17-20 points in quite a few games.  And he still had over 20 INTs.    

[pedro55]

Agreed: the Dolphins got shutout by the Bills and Geno had a pretty good game against their defense the next week. What does one of those things have to do with the other?

 

  And Lewis had the same stats as Geno against the Dolphins.   What does that mean?

[stoicsentry]

  And Lewis had the same stats as Geno against the Dolphins.   What does that mean?

 

Geno's QB rating in week 17 was 16.3 points higher than Thad Lewis' QB rating in week 16. Not a tremendous difference, but not an insignificant one either.

 

Anyway, I don't see what that has to do with the question either.

[pedro55]

Geno's QB rating in week 17 was 16.3 points higher than Thad Lewis' QB rating in week 16. Not a tremendous difference, but not an insignificant one either.

 

Anyway, I don't see what that has to do with the question either.

 

 The Dolphins as a team pretty much gave up at that point it seemed.  Yeah they were in the playoff hunt and all they had to do was win out, but 

Thad Lewis and the Bills beat them down and Geno and the Jets beat them down.   I'm not knocking Geno, but it wasn't like he had a 4 TD game and lit them up either.       And nobody is saying Thad Lewis should be the starter and given a chance because he played ok against the Dolphins.

 

 

 and 17 - 27  197 yards  0 TDS   vs 15 - 25 193 yards 0 TDs   is the same damn stat line.

[flgreen]

Well, he's turned the ball over and is down 21-3.  Lets see how much Andrew Luck he's got in him.

 

Not a bad 4th quarter, against an excellent D 

[ZachEY]

Not a bad 4th quarter, against an excellent D

Yeah. Looked solid. Big play was a missed tackle though. Not killing the kid, just didn't see what all the hype was about based on last night.

[NCJETSFAN]

Ill say it again we played oak. Clev. Miami total record of those 3 is 16- 32 When we played Carolina we could barley move the ball so I'm not that excited abt the last 4 weeks . When we were 5-4 off the bye we lost 3 and played some of the worst football in league

[#27TheDominator]

I wasn't that upset with Geno against Carolina.  Sure he had the pick 6, but those are going to happen.  IMO he hung in there and threw the ball   The games that bothered me were the stretch where he just seemed to be chucking and ducking, throwing off his back foot or just flipping it with his arm.  I never exptected great success with a rookie QB and this O, but as long as he stepped in and drove the ball I felt there was something to develop.  Geno had a few bad games against Tennessee, Pittsburgh and the Bengals.  They protected him in the win against the Saints and he followed it up with three of the worst QB performances I can remember.  He looked timid and scared.  From the Oakland game on I have been happy enough with him. 

[Villain The Foe]

 This no Talent argument doesn't work.    Yes on offense, the jets stink and they don't have any playmakers.  But many teams would take the Jets defense over their own defense.   It's a team game, so when your defense only allows 20 points and a guy like Andrew Luck or the Tony Romo's of the world's defense are giving up 30+ points, it puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the QB to be a gun slinger.      And talking about the Colts,  I'd take Ivory over Donald Brown or Trent Richardson.    

 

  So yeah Geno didn't have a talented offense around him, but he had a better running game then the Dolphins, Colts and quite a few other teams.     He also had a better defense than half the teams in the NFL.   So when the offense only needs 21 points to win a game,  there is some talent on the team, it's just not offensive talent.     

 

 This 'No talent" argument gets old in a sport where some QBs and offenses need to throw 4 TDs every week and score 40 points just to win a game.  Geno and crew only needed to score 18 points in a win,  14 points in another game and so on.   I think he deserves another chance and I think the Jets need offensive weapons, but saying there is no talent is a weak argument.  

 

 What makes the argument a bad one is Geno didn't need to be a gunslinger, he didn't need to throw 4 TDs every week, and they didn't need to score 40 points to win games.  Hell, they only needed 17-20 points in quite a few games.  And he still had over 20 INTs.    

No need for me to going back and again with this. Our running game was 6th in the league as you know, you you probably didn't know is that the 6th best rushing attack was a measly 23rd in rushing TD's. In other words, those yards didn't put points on the board. Geno didn't have talent to work with at the skillset position. I don't need to convince people of this.

[#27TheDominator]

No need for me to going back and again with this. Our running game was 6th in the league as you know, you you probably didn't know is that the 6th best rushing attack was a measly 23rd in rushing TD's. In other words, those yards didn't put points on the board. Geno didn't have talent to work with at the skillset position. I don't need to convince people of this.

 

Where did you get your stats from? As far as I can tell the Jets were tied for 18th in rushing TDs, less than a TD below league average. Did you subtract Geno's TDs or something?  They were dead last in passing TDs by a good margin. They barely had half of the average team. 

[flgreen]

Yeah. Looked solid. Big play was a missed tackle though. Not killing the kid, just didn't see what all the hype was about based on last night.

 

For sure last night wasn't his best game, they blitzed him, and had him spooked the first half, he pulled it together and looked very  good.  I'm not even a Noles fan, I'm a Canes fan I'm supposed to hate him.

 

Last night was only his 20th birthday.  Kid is going to be a good one when he comes out

[Villain The Foe]

Where did you get your stats from? As far as I can tell the Jets were tied for 18th in rushing TDs, less than a TD below league average. Did you subtract Geno's TDs or something?  They were dead last in passing TDs by a good margin. They barely had half of the average team. 

I know they were 23rd before the season ended. As for dead last in passing TD's, I'm not surprised. Our best WR was Kerley and we had the worst group of receivers in the league. My point to the rushing is that being in the top ten rushing isn't as impactful when you're in the bottom ten in points scored

[#27TheDominator]

I know they were 23rd before the season ended. As for dead last in passing TD's, I'm not surprised. Our best WR was Kerley and we had the worst group of receivers in the league. My point to the rushing is that being in the top ten rushing isn't as impactful when you're in the bottom ten in points scored

 

Don't you think the QB and passing game are the reason the points scored are in the bottom 10? Geno is young and I'm not surprised he struggled, but he sure did.  I would consider ypa the most important stat for a running game and the Jets were 11th at 4.4.  I don't deny the receivers sucked and the ones that had were all hurt, but the running game was far from a problem.  I think considering how bad the passing game was, it's surprising they ran as well as they did. 

[bitonti]

I wasn't that upset with Geno against Carolina.  Sure he had the pick 6, but those are going to happen.  IMO he hung in there and threw the ball   The games that bothered me were the stretch where he just seemed to be chucking and ducking, throwing off his back foot or just flipping it with his arm.  I never exptected great success with a rookie QB and this O, but as long as he stepped in and drove the ball I felt there was something to develop.  Geno had a few bad games against Tennessee, Pittsburgh and the Bengals.  They protected him in the win against the Saints and he followed it up with three of the worst QB performances I can remember.  He looked timid and scared.  From the Oakland game on I have been happy enough with him. 

 

this is dead nuts accurate. Carolina game was 16-13 until a punt block. Oakland was the turning point in Geno's season.