Really good article on the four likely 1st rd QBs.

[T0mShane]

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum

I can't cut and paste it because of the charts, but it compares Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr, and Bortles--their accuracy, where they throw the ball, how they are under pressure. For the lazy, it says that Bridgewater is the best overall passer, Carr is probably the next Sanchez, Manziel is surprisingly accurate, and Bortles has been good, but not great.

[SayNoToDMC]

I honestly only watched Carr in the USC game this year. I know it was a bowl game but since he plays in the MWC I wanted to see how he did against a real team and it wasn't good.

[joewillie78]

I honestly only watched Carr in the USC game this year. I know it was a bowl gave but since he plays in the MWC I wanted to see how he did against a real team and it wasn't good.

Carr cost himself millions of dollars in that bowl game. He played awful.

[T0mShane]

I honestly only watched Carr in the USC game this year. I know it was a bowl game but since he plays in the MWC I wanted to see how he did against a real team and it wasn't good.

That article shows how bad Carr is under pressure and vs the blitz. 50% passer. IMO, that's the real difference between good and bad NFL QBs. They spend 90% of their professional lives under pressure.

[Larz]

that sounds really good

[joewillie78]

That article shows how bad Carr is under pressure and vs the blitz. 50% passer. IMO, that's the real difference between good and bad NFL QBs. They spend 90% of their professional lives under pressure.

I'm not saying Carr will be a bust by any means, but watching him play against his best competition, and play so poorly, and look like he had never seen a blitz, had to be very disturbing to any GM that has him high on their board.

 

I dropped him below Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, McCarron, and Mettenberger after that performance.

[SayNoToDMC]

I'm not saying Carr will be a bust by any means, but watching him play against his best competition, and play so poorly, and look like he had never seen a blitz, had to be very disturbing to any GM that has him high on their board.

I dropped him below Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, McCarron, and Mettenberger after that performance.

McCarron looked pretty brutal under pressure in his bowl game, which isn't something he normally dealt with behind a line that's been stacked with NFL level talent.

[joewillie78]

McCarron looked pretty brutal under pressure in his bowl game, which isn't something he normally dealt with behind a line that's been stacked with NFL level talent.

I agree, but I have seen McCarron play against the SEC week in and week out, and although he has his deficiencies, did have some success against some of the top competition, where Carr, in his first real test, against a team, not in the weak conference they play in, failed miserably.

 

Do I want McCarron for the Jets? Not really, BUT if it came down to him or Carr, I'm taking McCarron.

[T0mShane]

Speaking of NFL lines in college, Manziel will have played behind three top ten picks at tackle potentially.

[HessStation]

Mccarron sucks

Carr sucks

Mettenberger is a freaking goob

Bortles should sit for 2 years but will probably be thrust into a starting position...and suck

Manziel might suck but might be awesome

Bridgewater rocks my world

[SayNoToDMC]

Speaking of NFL lines in college, Manziel will have played behind three top ten picks at tackle potentially.

Johnny Jet's presence will make Brian Winters better, which is good since we won't have any picks left after moving up to get him

[joewillie78]

Speaking of NFL lines in college, Manziel will have played behind three top ten picks at tackle potentially.

Fluker, Joeckel, Matthews? Correct?

[bitonti]

Carr cost himself millions of dollars in that bowl game. He played awful.

 

yeah and his legacy is kinda garbage. the brother of David Carr isn't such a hot selling point. It's kinda questionable if he's a first rounder. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

I'm not saying Carr will be a bust by any means, but watching him play against his best competition, and play so poorly, and look like he had never seen a blitz, had to be very disturbing to any GM that has him high on their board.

 

I dropped him below Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, McCarron, and Mettenberger after that performance.

 

How can you drop Carr after one bad performance, yet not care at all that Manziel looked like high-school senior when he played against LSU...both times?? It seems a bit hypocritical no?

[joewillie78]

yeah and his legacy is kinda garbage. the brother of David Carr isn't such a hot selling point. It's kinda questionable if he's a first rounder. 

I agree, and its a bit of a shame that his own brother is actually going to be a negative when evaluating Carr as they come from the same school, same system, and David was such a complete bust.

 

I agree, I think he has a very good chance to FALL out of the 1st round. Oh no, does this mean I will be panicking, as I was last year, praying that the Jets dont take who I think they are going to take?

 

Its Deja Vu all over again.

[HessStation]

How can you drop Carr after one bad performance, yet not care at all that Manziel looked like high-school senior when he played against LSU...both times?? It seems a bit hypocritical no?

Fans drop prospects after one game. NFL teams and scouts don't.

[T0mShane]

Fluker, Joeckel, Matthews? Correct?

Joeckel, Matthews, Ogbuehi

[HessStation]

I agree, and its a bit of a shame that his own brother is actually going to be a negative when evaluating Carr as they come from the same school, same system, and David was such a complete bust.

I agree, I think he has a very good chance to FALL out of the 1st round. Oh no, does this mean I will be panicking, as I was last year, praying that the Jets dont take who I think they are going to take?

Its Deja Vu all over again.

David Carr got screwed.

[HessStation]

Fluker, Joeckel, Matthews? Correct?

Fluker played at Alabama..

[joewillie78]

How can you drop Carr after one bad performance, yet not care at all that Manziel looked like high-school senior when he played against LSU...both times?? It seems a bit hypocritical no?

I knew you were going to bring this up. You always do. I guess the main reason, is sort of like what I said for McCarron, because he played week in and week out against the best conference in the nation and was awesome.

 

Yes, he struggled against LSU, I get that, but for some reason, every QB not named Peyton Manning, seems to have that team they struggle against. Ask Brady if he enjoys facing the GIANTS.

 

Again, Carrs performance was really our only glimpse of him against a real program, and against a fierce blitz, and he failed.

 

I doubt I anwered your question to your satisfaction but thats the best I have right now.

[joewillie78]

Joeckel, Matthews, Ogbuehi

I suck at Jeopardy.

[BroadwayJoe12]

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum

I can't cut and paste it because of the charts, but it compares Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr, and Bortles--their accuracy, where they throw the ball, how they are under pressure. For the lazy, it says that Bridgewater is the best overall passer, Carr is probably the next Sanchez, Manziel is surprisingly accurate, and Bortles has been good, but not great.

 

I like how he presents the data, but his rationale for why the numbers are why they are is strictly hypothetical. He doesn't mention that a large reason why Manziel is able to do well against pressure is that he scrambles about for a few seconds buying time to throw to Evans downfield, something that's not likely to happen in the NFL. Same goes for the accuracy in downfield passing: as a vast majority of his longer completions were on broken plays, it's hard to compare that to someone who is sitting in the pocket and lofting it down the sideline. 

 

I think the articles this guy posts for receivers are a bit better, as there's just too much involved in how a QB goes about getting his stats.

[joewillie78]

Fans drop prospects after one game. NFL teams and scouts don't.

Guilty as charged.

[HessStation]

There are probably 3 QBs I'd rather build my franchise around than Geno in this draft. Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Fans drop prospects after one game. NFL teams and scouts don't.

 

Which is why I asked him why he would do it and not the scouts.  For what it's worth, I think how LSU showed the world what Manziel looks like when he can't scramble is pretty damning. Those were the only two games that I saw a team keep contain and manage the broken plays and he looked absolutely lost. I know I'm biased, but I saw him run up and down the field on an Alabama team that is built to beat SEC teams that run between the tackles and are weak against mobile QBs and when he ran into a defense that took that away, he didn't look like someone that was capable of doing it all from the pocket. The kid has talent, I just don't like how his game translates to the NFL.

[joewillie78]

I like how he presents the data, but his rationale for why the numbers are why they are is strictly hypothetical. He doesn't mention that a large reason why Manziel is able to do well against pressure is that he scrambles about for a few seconds buying time to throw to Evans downfield, something that's not likely to happen in the NFL. Same goes for the accuracy in downfield passing: as a vast majority of his longer completions were on broken plays, it's hard to compare that to someone who is sitting in the pocket and lofting it down the sideline. 

 

I think the articles this guy posts for receivers are a bit better, as there's just too much involved in how a QB goes about getting his stats.

And thats a great observation, as that is the million dollar question with Manziel. If you believe he can do that in the NFL (which I do), then you take him as fast as you can, but if you think he will be destroyed when he starts scarmbling. then you avoid him like the Plague. Its really that simple.

[HessStation]

Which is why I asked him why he would do it and not the scouts. For what it's worth, I think how LSU showed the world what Manziel looks like when he can't scramble is pretty damning. Those were the only two games that I saw a team keep contain and manage the broken plays and he looked absolutely lost. I know I'm biased, but I saw him run up and down the field on an Alabama team that is built to beat SEC teams that run between the tackles and are weak against mobile QBs and when he ran into a defense that took that away, he didn't look like someone that was capable of doing it all from the pocket. The kid has talent, I just don't like how his game translates to the NFL.

He's the hardest guy to figure in the entire draft. You could be spot on. I hear ya.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I knew you were going to bring this up. You always do. I guess the main reason, is sort of like what I said for McCarron, because he played week in and week out against the best conference in the nation and was awesome.

 

Yes, he struggled against LSU, I get that, but for some reason, every QB not named Peyton Manning, seems to have that team they struggle against. Ask Brady if he enjoys facing the GIANTS.

 

Again, Carrs performance was really our only glimpse of him against a real program, and against a fierce blitz, and he failed.

 

I doubt I anwered your question to your satisfaction but thats the best I have right now.

 

That's fine, but do you also think it's fair to assume that one reason he struggled against the best competition he faced, was because the USC defense out-matched his offense at every position? Very much like Cutler when he played at Vanderbilt, just on a much more extreme level. That's why games like the Senior Bowl are so important, it shows how they all do with equal footing. I think Carr is better than the USC game, but not sure how much so as I didn't take the time to watch Fresno State play this year.

[joewillie78]

There are probably 3 QBs I'd rather build my franchise around than Geno in this draft. Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles.

I'm not 100% sold on Bortles. I am absolutely sold on the other 2. However if the Jets took Bortles, I would be very happy. I'm not sold on the kid, but I am willing to give him a shot.

[BroadwayJoe12]

He's the hardest guy to figure in the entire draft. You could be spot on. I hear ya.

 

 

And thats a great observation, as that is the million dollar question with Manziel. If you believe he can do that in the NFL (which I do), then you take him as fast as you can, but if you think he will be destroyed when he starts scarmbling. then you avoid him like the Plague. Its really that simple.

 

 

Definitely is a very difficult player to evaluate. He's going to be a top 5 pick on many boards and taken off other's completely. I don't see his personality sitting well in Cleveland, but god damn that franchise could use a boost and Josh Gordon can be his new Mike Evans.  He's good for the game even if you don't like him, as everyone loves someone to hate. Ala Brady.

[HessStation]

That's fine, but do you also think it's fair to assume that one reason he struggled against the best competition he faced, was because the USC defense out-matched his offense at every position? Very much like Cutler when he played at Vanderbilt, just on a much more extreme level. That's why games like the Senior Bowl are so important, it shows how they all do with equal footing. I think Carr is better than the USC game, but not sure how much so as I didn't take the time to watch Fresno State play this year.

What made Cutler so intriguing was how he was able to carve up superior completion with less talent a la Florida when they were dominant. That and a rocket arm.

[TuscanyTile2]

Johnny Jet's presence will make Brian Winters better, which is good since we won't have any picks left after moving up to get him

 

LOL.  You know, there's something very strange about the whole Johnny Football thing that tells me he might end up a Jet.  The whole thing just feels right.  The one NFL team I've heard him mention was the Jets (and he spoke in very positive terms).  NY would absolutely love the guy (well at least initially - the rest would be performance-based).  If the Jets go for it, I'm all in.  If not, I can understand too though.  There definitely is a bust potential.  Heck, even if he's good, he could be too injury-prone for the NFL.  But, again, if they do it, I'm all in on the move!

[TuscanyTile2]

I'm absolutely NOT a fan of McCarron, by the way.  I think he's all hype.

[joewillie78]

That's fine, but do you also think it's fair to assume that one reason he struggled against the best competition he faced, was because the USC defense out-matched his offense at every position? Very much like Cutler when he played at Vanderbilt, just on a much more extreme level. That's why games like the Senior Bowl are so important, it shows how they all do with equal footing. I think Carr is better than the USC game, but not sure how much so as I didn't take the time to watch Fresno State play this year.

Oh no, thats a fair point, but what I did learn is that if I have a suspect offensive line, that struggles against blitz assignments, then I probably dont want CARR, but if i have an offensive line like say the Bronco's, then he could probably be respectable. The Jets o-line in my opinion is good, not great, but good, so Carr behind that line? Maybe.

[T0mShane]

Definitely is a very difficult player to evaluate. He's going to be a top 5 pick on many boards and taken off other's completely. I don't see his personality sitting well in Cleveland, but god damn that franchise could use a boost and Josh Gordon can be his new Mike Evans. He's good for the game even if you don't like him, as everyone loves someone to hate. Ala Brady.

Assuming he can play/doesn't get crushed.