2016: Long Term or Short Term View

[jamesr]

Not true . 

The Ravens won a SB with Dilfer who's not elite.

The Raiders got to the SB with Rich Gannon who's not elite

If you build a team, a game managing QB can get you to and win you a SB.

Mark Sanchez had the Jets within 1  game of the SB and he's what exactly ?

I agree, you need to try and fin d a QB who can take you to a SB.  Until that time, you build your team by taking the very best players each and every time and by utilizing your draft picks as best that helps your team . 

So the last time a non-elite QB (I'll even go so far as to say JAG QB) won the Superbowl was 15 years ago based on the above ... I'll even be kind and say it was 13 years ago (Brad Johnson, TB 2003).

Hardly a stirring track record of success that suggests that's the way to go as a team moving forward. Bucs won that day with strong running, stopping the run and creating turnovers, leaving the QB to be a game manager. Ravens two years prior followed the same model.

Guess what - we tried that with Rex for 6 years, and though we got close, we never got close enough, and continued to get further away as time went by.

Meanwhile, teams WITH top QBs went on to win the next 12 Superbowls (and likely the one this weekend too, depending on your point of view on the QBs on each team).

Now i agree with your last line 100% - that you need to build a complete team. Neither Denver nor Carolina are there just because they found a QB, they are there because they are the more complete teams than anyone they faced this year. If there's a QB worth a risk - take a risk. But don't pick a crap one just because you don't already have a good one, that's a waste of resources. Case in point - 2011 draft, Jax reached for Gabbert because they needed a QB. JJ Watt went with the very next pick. Minny then reached for Ponder, and Nick Fairely and Robert Quinn were the next two picks.

[Jet Nut]

No, it doesn't. Turning over the ball 3 times, once in the red zone, does nothing to debunk anything said. We still have to address this garbage time nonsense too - when was garbage time in this 22-17 game?

The INT in the EZ to Decker was the killer.  Thats the one that cost us the game and set up the INTs.  Without that pick, with the lead, Fitz doesnt throw the other two INTs

[Tinstar]

Folks, I am not saying you don't need a Franchise QB in the NFL to win .  All I am saying is that it is not the only way to win.  The fact that we have not sniffed the SB in over 40 years shows that you need an actual team .  Over those years, we have had some great offensive teams and some great defensive teams .  There was even a little window were our Special teams was really special with Leon Washington and Brad Smith . 

What we haven't had is a real team and that's what we need to build .  That's what I am counting on Mac and Bowles to build .   Along the way, I would like to find and develop a QB capable of putting the team on his shoulder

The INT in the EZ to Decker was the killer.  Thats the one that cost us the game and set up the INTs.  Without that pick, with the lead, Fitz doesnt throw the other two INTs

I am sorry, but the game I watched, that cause us a shot at the Playoffs, was lost because we got beat by Greg Salas.  It's find to allow a high 1st round pick to play to his draft status, but when you allow an UDFA who you cut to catch 1st down after 1st down  with big plays, you deserve to lose. 

[#27TheDominator]

RIch Gannon was pretty damn elite the year the Raiders made it,   Brad Johnson and Dilfer are ancient history.  The guys we are talking about are Flacco, Kaepernick, Eli and Russell Wilson.  Is Peyton Manning elite at this point?  You need a QB, but the idea he has to be top 3 is outdated.  Rodgers and Brady aren't here. 

[Jet Nut]

Folks, I am not saying you don't need a Franchise QB in the NFL to win .  All I am saying is that it is not the only way to win.  The fact that we have not sniffed the SB in over 40 years shows that you need an actual team .  Over those years, we have had some great offensive teams and some great defensive teams .  There was even a little window were our Special teams was really special with Leon Washington and Brad Smith . 

What we haven't had is a real team and that's what we need to build .  That's what I am counting on Mac and Bowles to build .   Along the way, I would like to find and develop a QB capable of putting the team on his shoulder

I am sorry, but the game I watched, that cause us a shot at the Playoffs, was lost because we got beat by Greg Salas.  It's find to allow a high 1st round pick to play to his draft status, but when you allow an UDFA who you cut to catch 1st down after 1st down  with big plays, you deserve to lose. 

Cant agree with Salas as the reason.  We were down two, 1st down on the 14 or so.  Dont throw the pick, dont score a TD and we should still be up 1 with 5 or 6 minutes to go.   With all the damage attributed to Salas we still could have and should have won the game.  I know we like Fitz and dont want to blame him but come on, the game was there for the taking.

Also I could care less where the player came from.  We dont complain the the Bills couldnt run the ball because of an undrafted FA stuffs the middle of the line for us.

[Jet Nut]

RIch Gannon was pretty damn elite the year the Raiders made it,   Brad Johnson and Dilfer are ancient history.  The guys we are talking about are Flacco, Kaepernick, Eli and Russell Wilson.  Is Peyton Manning elite at this point?  You need a QB, but the idea he has to be top 3 is outdated.  Rodgers and Brady aren't here. 

Not true . 

The Ravens won a SB with Dilfer who's not elite.

The Raiders got to the SB with Rich Gannon who's not elite

If you build a team, a game managing QB can get you to and win you a SB.

Mark Sanchez had the Jets within 1  game of the SB and he's what exactly ?

I agree, you need to try and fin d a QB who can take you to a SB.  Until that time, you build your team by taking the very best players each and every time and by utilizing your draft picks as best that helps your team . 

Gannons only elite like season was the year of the SB.

Eli

Brad Johnson.

Hostetler.

Rypien.

Hasslebeck.

Williams

Grossman.

Kaep

Simms even.

Really helps to have an elite type QB but lots of mediocre QBs have made it to or won the SB

[#27TheDominator]

 

Gannons only elite like season was the year of the SB.

Eli

Brad Johnson.

Hostetler.

Rypien.

Hasslebeck.

Williams

Grossman.

Kaep

Simms even.

Really helps to have an elite type QB but lots of mediocre QBs have made it to or won the SB

Might as well include game managers Bart Starr and Len Dawson.  Between Eli and Grossman that list is ancient history.  My main point is that guys like Cam and Wilson are anointed "elite" the second they win.  Peyton has not looked elite in years.  You need quality QB play to win.  IMO you don't need an elite QB to get that, but it certainly makes it a whole lot easier.

[Jet Nut]

Might as well include game managers Bart Starr and Len Dawson.  Between Eli and Grossman that list is ancient history.  My main point is that guys like Cam and Wilson are anointed "elite" the second they win.  Peyton has not looked elite in years.  You need quality QB play to win.  IMO you don't need an elite QB to get that, but it certainly makes it a whole lot easier.

Eh, different game back then but get your point.  The statement made was you need an elite QB to win and thats too much of an generalization.  

Cam is hard to include, hes had huge numbers just goes under the radar in Carolina.  With little around him.  Wilson is a top QB, not getting the idea that hes not.

[JohnnyLV]

Folks, I am not saying you don't need a Franchise QB in the NFL to win .  All I am saying is that it is not the only way to win.  The fact that we have not sniffed the SB in over 40 years shows that you need an actual team .  Over those years, we have had some great offensive teams and some great defensive teams .  There was even a little window were our Special teams was really special with Leon Washington and Brad Smith . 

What we haven't had is a real team and that's what we need to build .  That's what I am counting on Mac and Bowles to build .   Along the way, I would like to find and develop a QB capable of putting the team on his shoulder

I am sorry, but the game I watched, that cause us a shot at the Playoffs, was lost because we got beat by Greg Salas.  It's find to allow a high 1st round pick to play to his draft status, but when you allow an UDFA who you cut to catch 1st down after 1st down  with big plays, you deserve to lose. 

Except that for only 3 or 4 exceptions in 50 years it IS the only way to win a SB That is so stastically small it is irrelevent. It is why doing anything other than trying to find THE guy (such as starting a JAG like Fitz) is actually worse than spinning your wheels it is going backwards.

[varjet]

There are "Zero" absolute LOCK franchize QB's in this draft.

Get your pass rusher and OT in the 1st 2 rds. get your RB and receiver in 3rd and 4th, Get your ST players stars with last 2 picks and hit

UDFA aggressively. Sign Fitz and continue to develop Petty.

I think Snacks and Mo can be building blocks for the Jets over the next 4+ years.  That is why I am not opposed to signing them.  I would not say the same for SR unless his contract is pay as you go to protect against him getting suspended.   My guess is that someone would pay him and he would move on.  So that would give you Williams, Snacks and Mo for a DL in 2017, which is pretty good.  Also covers them if SR is suspended in 2016.

The Jets could theoretically spend almost nothing on QB in 2016-Smith, Petty and a FA/Draft pick.  That could be the right answer for a long-term build.  I think practically you pay Fitz something more/fair but not too much.  I don't think you develop the other offensive players without a decent QB throwing to them.  The fans will completely revolt if they stink in 2016, and a Geno/Petty combination could stink.

They will not stink if they cut Cromartie and let others fill that spot.

The hardest decision for Maccagnan in my view is the OL.  At what point do they cut the overpaid and find replacements if they don't restructure.  As we know, a team without a functioning OL, or even a complete weak link, will stink.  I think practically they should be signing/drafting OL so that one T is replaced in 2016, one in 2017 and the C is replaced in 2018.   If they are smart they can do that at a relative fair cost.

Signing lots of UDFA LBs and drafting them appear to be the best course. 

[ljr]

Except that for only 3 or 4 exceptions in 50 years it IS the only way to win a SB That is so stastically small it is irrelevent. It is why doing anything other than trying to find THE guy (such as starting a JAG like Fitz) is actually worse than spinning your wheels it is going backwards.

wrong bro ... In addition to "finding the guy" you also need to put him in the best position to succeed.

having Fitz start in 2015 over the pile of $h*t Geno was the right move

having Fitz start in 2016 while Petty & hopefully another late round prospect at QB are taught the in's and out's of the NFL is also the right move.

going BAP in the draft so there will be a solid nucleus for whichever future young QB starts showing promise is the right move as well

[JustInFudge]

Short term plan - find a QB

Long term plan - hope that QB is good or keep searching

Nothing else matters.  

The NFL is a terrible product revolved around 1 player.  Not even sure why they call it a team sport anymore. 

[SenorGato]

Short term plan - find a QB

Long term plan - hope that QB is good or keep searching

Nothing else matters.  

The NFL is a terrible product revolved around 1 player.  Not even sure why they call it a team sport anymore. 

Or even a sport...More like a Sunday afternoon drama or soap opera.

[UnknownJetFan]

To the QB statement, if that were always the case then why did Brady get killed last week since?. Why, because the Oline of that team didn't have the men to protect him. Meanwhile, pretty good but not great QBs in Wilson and Newton are getting to SBs because they have great players all around them more than they are making those players great with their individual play. QBs like Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, etc. are these so great QBs being spoken about, but their teams now don't have good enough players around them hence they can't even sniff winning records these days. Even a QB like Fitz can get you consistent, but you have to know the balance of how to use him. We counted on too much passing in the wrong situations in some games that we lost due to the faultering of our RBs/running game caused by injuries at RB and the Oline not being real consistent at run blocking. That needs to be a point of emphasis as much as an edge rusher is. Remember, the D is much better for this or any team the less it is on the field, and a balanced consistent O will keep the D off the field for much of the game.

[JohnnyLV]

To the QB statement, if that were always the case then why did Brady get killed last week since?. Why, because the Oline of that team didn't have the men to protect him. Meanwhile, pretty good but not great QBs in Wilson and Newton are getting to SBs because they have great players all around them more than they are making those players great with their individual play. QBs like Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, etc. are these so great QBs being spoken about, but their teams now don't have good enough players around them hence they can't even sniff winning records these days. Even a QB like Fitz can get you consistent, but you have to know the balance of how to use him. We counted on too much passing in the wrong situations in some games that we lost due to the faultering of our RBs/running game caused by injuries at RB and the Oline not being real consistent at run blocking. That needs to be a point of emphasis as much as an edge rusher is. Remember, the D is much better for this or any team the less it is on the field, and a balanced consistent O will keep the D off the field for much of the game.

Lol, Wilson is great, Newton had a great year. Both are far beyond "pretty good". And Wilson's OL sucks.