John Idzik's 12-man draft class.

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

You're being selective. There were reports he was asking for $18M. Who knows what's true or false but you're just ignoring all reports you don't like. 

Well if so he got 17. The reports I remember was that he was asking for 40 mil guaranteed. And he got 39. So where's the tough negotiations. They were fighting with Fitz their starting Qb over a couple of million for 7 months. And that entire time the guy was out of camp and not practicing with the team. I don't really think this was on Mac. He's too smart for this nonsense. I think it was the owner. The bottom line is he spent most of the cap money in 2015 and on one player. And in 2016 we were cash strapped. Not good planning. As for mandatory spending rules you can carry over unspent cap space if you announce it in advance. He didn't have to spend all of it in 2015.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well if so he got 17. The reports I remember was that he was asking for 40 mil guaranteed. And he got 39. So where's the tough negotiations. They were fighting with Fitz their starting Qb over a couple of million for 7 months. And that entire time the guy was out of camp and not practicing with the team. I don't really think this was on Mac. He's too smart for this nonsense. I think it was the owner. The bottom line is he spent most of the cap money in 2015 and on one player. And in 2016 we were cash strapped. Not good planning. As for mandatory spending rules you can carry over unspent cap space if you announce it in advance. He didn't have to spend all of it in 2015.

Must be confused I was talking about Fitz. What do you mean 39 million guaranteed? Sorry I guess I missed who we were talking about haha.

[Rangers9]

29 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I'm sorry, what turnaround for the Jets happened in 2014?  You mean, when we fired all the people that needed to be fired?

No we went from 8-8 to 4-12. If that happens with Mac I expect repercussions considering our fan base who just loves to jump down anyone's throat. They have no patience you know like some fans who if we put Hack in a game and he sucks they want to immediately get rid of him. I think these people are probably pretty rational in their everyday life and not off the wall like they are here. I guess this is their outlet for craziness. But it's harmless, let them fly their airplanes and bitch and complain about nothing.

[rex-n-effect]

35 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

There was no bidding. At least based on what we heard. Some interest. But Woody signed him the first day of his free agency. If Mac is such a tough negotiator and it takes seven months to sign his starting Qb (and he ends up paying him the amount he asked for anyways) then why give him the highest deal ever for a corner back without further negotiations. I like Revis a lot, he is my favorite all time Jets player. But he's not worth that contract and we saw that on the field last year. And the structuring of the deal is stupid too. All in Revis's favor. He gets the big money the first three years and then gets very good money the last two years. So basically he probably is going to get the entire 70 million which is highly unusual for a 5 year deal. So if you're going to spend your cap space then spread it around not just on one player. 

Revis had just come off a SB with NE--somebody was going to pick him up in FA. Fitzpatrick did not have that kind of demand. The two are not comparable situations.

We could have easily found ourselves in a bidding war for Revis with other teams or maybe Revis didn't want to come back here and Mac needed to know that right away to get offers in on other players. Remember that at that time we had just hired in a(nother) HC from the defensive side who (also) loves his secondary and at the time it looked like we had basically nothing functional on the defense behind the DL (Harris had a lackluster year and Pryor had been a firm maybe as a rookie). Mac had to start somewhere building a defense. Perhaps a premium was paid to get that done but I look at it as the cost to get started on the long term project of building the defense into an effective unit. Looking at Revis's contract in a vacuum makes it look worse than what it actually is.

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Revis had just come off a SB with NE--somebody was going to pick him up in FA. Fitzpatrick did not have that kind of demand. The two are not comparable situations.

We could have easily found ourselves in a bidding war for Revis with other teams or maybe Revis didn't want to come back here and Mac needed to know that right away to get offers in on other players. Remember that at that time we had just hired in a(nother) HC from the defensive side who (also) loves his secondary and at the time it looked like we had basically nothing functional on the defense behind the DL (Harris had a lackluster year and Pryor had been a firm maybe as a rookie). Mac had to start somewhere building a defense. Perhaps a premium was paid to get that done but I look at it as the cost to get started on the long term project of building the defense into an effective unit. Looking at Revis's contract in a vacuum makes it look worse than what it actually is.

NEP dropped Revis because they didn't want to pay him 20 mil (which would have given him a two year average of 16). There was no 17 mil market for Revis who was good not great with the Patriots. He hasn't been great since before he got injured. If we really wanted him back why not some tough negotiations. A bidding war at 10 mil maybe but not at 17. They paid the highest price ever in guaranteed money for a cornerback for guy who was no longer elite. If you saw Revis play last year you know that's the case. IMO Woody told Mac to sign him at his asking price to deflect all of the criticism on him because of the 4-12. That is after he fired everybody. 

[Jet_Engine1]

On 9/6/2016 at 0:52 PM, Villain The Foe said:

The subject is about Idzik's draft class, but Idzik shouldnt receive any credit if Pryor ends up being a player? I dont understand. How does Idzik get the credit for a nice portion of his picks being cut by Macc, but shouldnt deserve credit for a guy who looks like a gamer? 

 

C'mon, criticize the man, but dont hate on him. 

Because 1 out of 12, and the 1 being a first rounder is a success rate my 2nd grader using the old Sporting News draft guide could easily surpass. That's why.

 

 

[Rangers9]

Look just because Mac cuts his picks doesn't mean they are bad football players or were terrible selections. Like many GMs Mac prefers his own players. But it's mostly a money issue. We're talking about a lot of higher draft picks like Bohanon and Reilly. Esp at a position like fullback. Bohanon was a good draft pick and started for us two straight seasons. But they got someone who they think can do the job and is cheaper. And that guy might end up staying a few years and the same thing happens to him. That's why players keep getting cut all of the time, sent to practice squads, activated and sent back again or released. The number of these types of transactions is pretty hefty and many players are bounced around for a couple of years and a lot of them then out of the NFL. It's not just with the Jets players and Idzik's draft picks. And possibly players like Tommy after week 1 will sign with other teams or come back here. It's crazy but not as crazy as MLB rosters increasing to 40 in Sept. 

[Villain The Foe]

19 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Because 1 out of 12, and the 1 being a first rounder is a success rate my 2nd grader using the old Sporting News draft guide could easily surpass. That's why.

 

 

What does this even mean? 

[drdetroit]

Matt Millen laughs at Idzik's draft record

[nyjets782]

3 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

He's not my guy but Mac obviously is yours. You even look like him. No other team was going to pay Revis 17 mil per season. According to you that was Idzik's fault even though he was gone. At least acknowledge his mistakes. We'll see if the team has a turnaround in the future like the Jets did in 2014. Easy to place the blame on one person and make them the pariah. It's too easy and inaccurate. 

Wow and apparently you look like a NY Ranger from 1940.  Crazy!  Here we go with the Revis nonsense again.. they aren't paying him $17M per season.  He is getting a guaranteed $39M over 3 years.  I guess I have to explain to you how guaranteed money works, right?  You routinely misunderstand concepts, facts and even NFL rules (like spending up to a floor) all in the name of defending your precious moron GM who will go down as the worst NFL GM in 20 years.  Time well spent on your part. 

If you don't understand the concept of an inflated market from year to year, not sure I can help you. Revis would have come cheaper in 2014 than he would in 2015 as would all other corners of similar caliber.  It's not even debatable.

But then again you are the lone person on the planet that thinks the Vikings got the better of the Bradford deal so we should not be surprised.

Again, name the several Idzik pro bowl players... still waiting on this one...

[nyjets782]

3 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Well if so he got 17. The reports I remember was that he was asking for 40 mil guaranteed. And he got 39. So where's the tough negotiations. They were fighting with Fitz their starting Qb over a couple of million for 7 months. And that entire time the guy was out of camp and not practicing with the team. I don't really think this was on Mac. He's too smart for this nonsense. I think it was the owner. The bottom line is he spent most of the cap money in 2015 and on one player. And in 2016 we were cash strapped. Not good planning. As for mandatory spending rules you can carry over unspent cap space if you announce it in advance. He didn't have to spend all of it in 2015.

It's crazy how that works isn't it?  I can negotiate a better price for an old beat up used car than I can for a Ferrari.... what a novel concept!!!!  You mean I can actually take my time and wait it out with the old beat up used car but I might have to act quick with the Ferrari?   It's not a one-size fits all strategy?  I thought all GM's were supposed to treat all players equally under the law... maybe I'm confusing that with the Constitution... I don't know...

[nyjets782]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Look just because Mac cuts his picks doesn't mean they are bad football players or were terrible selections. Like many GMs Mac prefers his own players.

But seemingly the rest of the NFL has no use for Idzik's players.   But I know they are all great, it's all a media conspiracy, he deserved 3 more years to suck, Mac should have not signed anyone in 2015 and we could maybe build a roster of guys making the NFL minimum or rookie money and brag about all the cap space we have and how we never overpay for anyone.  You obsess about Revis and how you claim to have personal knowledge of the other teams interested and then brag about Tommy Bohannon. 

I could see you in 1996 whining....if we had just given Kotitte 3 more years to execute his Plan.....

[Rangers9]

32 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

Wow and apparently you look like a NY Ranger from 1940.  Crazy!  Here we go with the Revis nonsense again.. they aren't paying him $17M per season.  He is getting a guaranteed $39M over 3 years.  I guess I have to explain to you how guaranteed money works, right?  You routinely misunderstand concepts, facts and even NFL rules (like spending up to a floor) all in the name of defending your precious moron GM who will go down as the worst NFL GM in 20 years.  Time well spent on your part. 

If you don't understand the concept of an inflated market from year to year, not sure I can help you. Revis would have come cheaper in 2014 than he would in 2015 as would all other corners of similar caliber.  It's not even debatable.

But then again you are the lone person on the planet that thinks the Vikings got the better of the Bradford deal so we should not be surprised.

Again, name the several Idzik pro bowl players... still waiting on this one...

39 guaranteed isn't 13 mil per season. They overpay to give him the 17 in the first two years and then make it almost impossible to cut him in year 3 because he has 7 guaranteed in year 3. If they cut him they pay him 7 mil for nothing so unless the guy is finished it makes no sense to cut him. He's worth 8 mil in 2017. But they pay him 15. For the last two years the price is reasonable about 10.9 each year. So Revis is on a fast track to make 70 mil over 5 years. And that's at age 30, after his great years have concluded. Maybe you didn't see him play last season but he's not a 39 mil guaranteed player anymore. Here is his contract http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis-4275/. So where's all of the great negotiating from Mac. All he did with Fitz was almost disrupt the season and created a Qb controversy that shouldn't have happened. And what did he get from it. Nothing. 

[nyjets782]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

39 guaranteed isn't 13 mil per season. They overpay to give him the 17 in the first two years and then make it almost impossible to cut him in year 3 because he has 7 guaranteed in year 3. If they cut him they pay him 7 mil for nothing so unless the guy is finished it makes no sense to cut him. He's worth 8 mil in 2017. But they pay him 15. For the last two years the price is reasonable about 10.9 each year. So Revis is on a fast track to make 70 mil over 5 years. And that's at age 30, after his great years have concluded. Maybe you didn't see him play last season but he's not a 39 mil guaranteed player anymore. Here is his contract http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis-4275/. So where's all of the great negotiating from Mac. All he did with Fitz was almost disrupt the season and created a Qb controversy that shouldn't have happened. And what did he get from it. Nothing. 

If he sucks as bad as you say he does, then they can cut him after next year with ZERO cap hit.  The structure of the contract as far as guaranteed years as opposed to bonus was brilliant.  They will likely tear it up after next year as he converts to safety.  He is on no fast track to $70M but don't get the facts get in the way of your delusions.  He was a consensus top 3 corner and was paid like it.  No one in the NFL wanted Fitz and he was negotiated in a different manner.  Simple common sense.  You apparently have no feel for how silly you sound trying to compare the negotiations of two polar opposite players.

I'll take $39M for 3 years of Revis long before I would have paid $13M per year for Maxwell.  You should really just go find a team that refuses to sign anyone and is content to suck. 

[Rangers9]

7 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

If he sucks as bad as you say he does, then they can cut him after next year with ZERO cap hit.  The structure of the contract as far as guaranteed years as opposed to bonus was brilliant.  They will likely tear it up after next year as he converts to safety.  He is on no fast track to $70M but don't get the facts get in the way of your delusions.  He was a consensus top 3 corner and was paid like it.  No one in the NFL wanted Fitz and he was negotiated in a different manner.  Simple common sense.  You apparently have no feel for how silly you sound trying to compare the negotiations of two polar opposite players.

I'll take $39M for 3 years of Revis long before I would have paid $13M per year for Maxwell.  You should really just go find a team that refuses to sign anyone and is content to suck. 

No he gets 6 mil guaranteed in 2017. They can cut him but they have to pay him that 6 mil. He doesn't suck at all. He's a HOF player and still very good. Worth 10 mil just for his brains and leadership alone. The contract is brilliant for him. It makes it hard to cut him and he gets 34 mil the first two years. He's not worth it and it killed our cap. That was money we could have spent in other areas. And maybe we could have gotten him cheaper, like for 10 mil on a one year contract or something. In years 4 and 5 they can keep him for 11 mil each year. And Revis in the past never tore up contracts and took a pay cut. It's not in his DNA, Again in year 3 if he's on the roster he makes 15 mil. If they cut him he gets 6. That's the only way he gets 3-39. By cutting him next year. So in reality he gets 39 for playing 2 seasons if they cut him.

[Rangers9]

BTW as for Fitz. There were no jobs at the time. Now we see what happens in Minnesota and Dallas and there could be more. So they could have let him walk he was only asking for low starter money and a one year deal. It was completely stupid. And they ended up giving it to him anyways. They could have had him at Florham Park two months earlier. It would have been nice without all that uncertainty. Esp for the players and the coaches.

[nyjets782]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

No he gets 6 mil guaranteed in 2017. They can cut him but they have to pay him that 6 mil. He doesn't suck at all. He's a HOF player and still very good. Worth 10 mil just for his brains and leadership alone. The contract is brilliant for him. It makes it hard to cut him and he gets 34 mil the first two years. He's not worth it and it killed our cap. That was money we could have spent in other areas. And maybe we could have gotten him cheaper, like for 10 mil on a one year contract or something. In years 4 and 5 they can keep him for 11 mil each year. And Revis in the past never tore up contracts and took a pay cut. It's not in his DNA, Again in year 3 if he's on the roster he makes 15 mil. If they cut him he gets 6. That's the only way he gets 3-39. By cutting him next year. So in reality he gets 39 for playing 2 seasons if they cut him.

Killed our cap?  Who else were you signing other than him last offseason?  Remember the team sucked and had no talent on account of your hero's horrendous drafts.  I am aware of what he gets in 2017 making it likely they don't cut him which is why I said after next year.  You think with Maxwell getting $13, Revis would sign for $10M for 1 year....yeesh... there is simply no reasoning with you.  Revis doesn't get to tear up the contract - the Jets do!!!!  

I am literally astounded by the nonsense you continue to peddle.  You were called out 5 different times to name the several pro bowlers your hero drafted and you just continue to ignore all the facts that get in the way of your delusional theories.  I have had my fill of this nonsense....... I implore you to find the team with the cheapest owner and worst executive (who will still be 5x better than your hero) and you will be much happier that way.

[nyjets782]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

BTW as for Fitz. There were no jobs at the time. Now we see what happens in Minnesota and Dallas and there could be more. So they could have let him walk he was only asking for low starter money and a one year deal. It was completely stupid. And they ended up giving it to him anyways. They could have had him at Florham Park two months earlier. It would have been nice without all that uncertainty. Esp for the players and the coaches.

No he wanted $18M and they got him for $12M so again the facts get in the way of the delusions.  But Minnesota struck gold with that trade, right? 

[Rangers9]

Just now, nyjets782 said:

Killed our cap?  Who else were you signing other than him last offseason?  Remember the team sucked and had no talent on account of your hero's horrendous drafts.  I am aware of what he gets in 2017 making it likely they don't cut him which is why I said after next year.  You think with Maxwell getting $13, Revis would sign for $10M for 1 year....yeesh... there is simply no reasoning with you.  Revis doesn't get to tear up the contract - the Jets do!!!!  

I am literally astounded by the nonsense you continue to peddle.  You were called out 5 different times to name the several pro bowlers your hero drafted and you just continue to ignore all the facts that get in the way of your delusional theories.  I have had my fill of this nonsense....... I implore you to find the team with the cheapest owner and worst executive (who will still be 5x better than your hero) and you will be much happier that way.

So let's look at Mac's drafts. Both guys had two drafts. Not exactly earth shattering.  Both guys drafted Qbs in the 2nd round. Geno actually was a good pick. He was having a great year at WVU and was expected to go top ten. And then after they finished poorly and he didn't play well he dropped to the 2nd round. At that spot in the draft he was a good selection and worth taking a chance on which is exactly what Mac did with Hack who didn't play well at Penn St his final two seasons. And what is this about Maxwell. The corners Idzik tried to sign were DRC and Davis. Agreed that Revis wouldn't have signed for 10 mil but he might not have gotten a better offer. And now you're saying we had nothing better to spend the cap space on other than to greatly overpay Revis. Like how's about a good tight end. Or O-linemen, or a fast linebacker (in 2015). I never said Idzik was good. But to me he's not the fall guy for 2014 and nearly as bad as the Idzik haters claim he was. As a matter of fact as I recall a month ago or so there were a few posts on this board about how his drafts were not so bad. 

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, nyjets782 said:

No he wanted $18M and they got him for $12M so again the facts get in the way of the delusions.  But Minnesota struck gold with that trade, right? 

There is no evidence of that just a rumor. And if his agent floated that to the Jets it was just part of the original negotiations. Obviously an agent starts with a high figure but we don't know if that 16 or 18 rumor was at all true. The Jets were the ones who were leaking info to the press. At least at the start.  And he offered to sign for the 12 mil one year two months before they signed him. The whole thing was a distraction and created an unneeded Qb controversy. Look you have every right to your opinion and I respect it. But you're starting to make personal comments and that's the end of the line for me in any conversation. You can have the last word. 

[nyjets782]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

So let's look at Mac's drafts. Both guys had two drafts. Not exactly earth shattering.  Both guys drafted Qbs in the 2nd round. Geno actually was a good pick. He was having a great year at WVU and was expected to go top ten. And then after they finished poorly and he didn't play well he dropped to the 2nd round. At that spot in the draft he was a good selection and worth taking a chance on which is exactly what Mac did with Hack who didn't play well at Penn St his final two seasons. And what is this about Maxwell. The corners Idzik tried to sign were DRC and Davis. Agreed that Revis wouldn't have signed for 10 mil but he might not have gotten a better offer. And now you're saying we had nothing better to spend the cap space on other than to greatly overpay Revis. Like how's about a good tight end. Or O-linemen, or a fast linebacker (in 2015). I never said Idzik was good. But to me he's not the fall guy for 2014 and nearly as bad as the Idzik haters claim he was. As a matter of fact as I recall a month ago or so there were a few posts on this board about how his drafts were not so bad. 

When we blasted Idzik's drafts you whined for more time.  Now you want to compare 2 drafts when one guy's second draft hasn't even seen the field yet? 

Geno was a good pick?  Delusional - just because you understand the logic of the selection doesn't make it a good selection.  You don't understand the concepts that the result wins the day and the result has been dreadful.

Hack has not played a down yet - Absurd comparison

Maxwell was the corner who got the signed for the most money prior to Revis signing with the Jets 2 days later.  You can't even get your offseasons straight.  The Jets had money to spend and my very simple point was that Revis was a better value than Maxwell.  Simple.

Most of those posts defending him were yours. 

I am obviously wasting my time with someone who just ignores facts, chases his tail, compares things that are 100% incomparable and outright denies actual results as if we all did not just witness it.  I wish you well but I joined this board to blog with other reasonable Jet fans and for that reason, I will be moving on from you and blocking your posts. 

[nyjets782]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

There is no evidence of that just a rumor. And if his agent floated that to the Jets it was just part of the original negotiations. Obviously an agent starts with a high figure but we don't know if that 16 or 18 rumor was at all true. The Jets were the ones who were leaking info to the press. At least at the start.  And he offered to sign for the 12 mil one year two months before they signed him. The whole thing was a distraction and created an unneeded Qb controversy. Look you have every right to your opinion and I respect it. But you're starting to make personal comments and that's the end of the line for me in any conversation. You can have the last word. 

See my last post.  Adios....

[Jet_Engine1]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

What does this even mean? 

I guess it means you have poor comprehension skills.

[Jet_Engine1]

Ranger 9, quit while you're ahead.....

 

LOL

[Villain The Foe]

57 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I guess it means you have poor comprehension skills.

Figures