Nirvana: vastly overhyped and overrated:

[Boozer76]

Yeah I said it, and it's true. Everyone points to the genius of Kurt Cobain and his music, yet nobody wants to admit to how they got to where they were. Go listen to their album, Bleach. A bunch of been there done that underground punk sounds by seemingly poor musicians. They were going nowhere fast sounding like that. Enter Geffen records to polish the turd and clean up the crappy sounds and actually put some decent sounding overdubs into the guitar tracks and suddenly you have something marketable. All that was left to do was hand it over to MTV so they could bend you all over and shove this Frankenstein up your collective rear ends. The real Nirvana and the extent of Cobain's ability was plain to see on the Bleach album. The real genius of Nirvana was created by sound men and studio workers, along with the addition of a guy who has at least a shred of musical talent named Dave Grohl.

MTV saw the end of Hair bands was near and didn't know the direction that music was going to take until the REAL first grunge band hit the scene almost 2 years before Nirvana. In fact, they hit on so early that MTV had no idea where to put them, so they threw them into heavy metal typically seen on Monster's Ball. The Band? Alice In Chains. The song? Man In The Box. They were the first "grunge" band to hit the mainstream. The difference was "grunge" wasn't even a word when they first showed up, and MTV had to have their own band where they could release this new sound under their own terms. Enter Nirvana with Smells Like Teen Spirit and the suits at MTV and Geffen laughed all the way to the bank.

Face it, you've all been fooled into worshipping a talentless corporate driven god named Cobain. DISCUSS>>>>>>>>

[Maxman]

Is this about the band or the state of?

I don't know much about either.

[spjets]

i agree booz...i never knew who he was until his wife shot him....

there music is horrible..

[Boozer76]

Is this about the band or the state of?

I don't know much about either.

Actually it's the band and a great way to get Alk's panties in a bunch, although I do feel what I wrote is true.

[RSJ]

Nirvana was probably the best band ever.

Them and Pearl Jam orcourse.

[Boozer76]

Nirvana was probably the best band ever.

Them and Pearl Jam orcourse.

BEST BAND EVER!!?? Oh geez you seriously need to widen your horizons substantially if you really believe that. Pearl Jam is/was good but again not nearly close to greatest ever.

[RSJ]

BEST BAND EVER!!?? Oh geez you seriously need to widen your horizons substantially if you really believe that. Pearl Jam is/was good but again not nearly close to greatest ever.

No, I know. They certainly did start a revolution in music though. Although they often get too much credit for doing so as there were other bands in seatle with a similar sound at that time and even before. You hit the nail on the head except I wouldn't call Bleach a retread punk album. I think it was some of Nirvana's best stuff. Overall I loved their music and still do. Unlike hairbands it has stood the test of time so far.

[Boozer76]

No, I know. They certainly did start a revolution in music though. Although they often get too much credit for doing so as there were other bands in seatle with a similar sound at that time and even before. You hit the nail on the head except I wouldn't call Bleach a retread punk album. I think it was some of Nirvana's best stuff. Overall I loved their music and still do. Unlike hairbands it has stood the test of time so far.

Alot of Nirvana fans will come out and say that Bleach was their best album. To that I ask this: If it were the only album Nirvana ever put out and you just so happened to hear it one day, would you actually feel the same way about it? Probably not unless you were already a punk rock fan, because bleach is alot closer to underground punk at the time than grunge. My point is what Nirvana was originally is NOTHING like what they became once Geffen and MTV got a hold of them. Kurt Cobain had nothing to do with the revolution of music at the time, Geffen and MTV did. Alice and Chains sound was already there and needed no changing from the moment they debuted. Pearl Jam was the same, though I don't really feel they were grunge. Smashing Pumpkins needed a little tweaking from Gish to Siamese Dream, but the basics were already well in place. Nirvana was the only band that received a total overhaul to fit the new "grunge" idea that was in the minds of MTV and corporate suits. Nirvana was to be the "Frankenstein of grunge, and they were pushed ahead of everyone else at the time to promote the idea that they (the corporate created band) were the ones who started it all.

[JetsBlow99]

ALK is gonna find you and destroy you

[vanDoug]

I think Cobain was a decent enough pop song writer.

Not much of a guitarist.

[dickkotite]

im nota huge nirvanna an, but i cant sayanything bad about them. cobain was rea, not an act. that idig

enough pollok hatred!

[Boozer76]

im nota huge nirvanna an, but i cant sayanything bad about them. cobain was rea, not an act. that idig

enough pollok hatred!

Are you drunk buddy? That's some of the worst typing I've ever seen out of you, especially after that beautiful essay you wrote on Poland for me.

To your point, I don't think Kurt was original at all. In fact if I had to take a guess, I think he finally had enough of doing everything Geffen's way instead of his own which eventually put him into a bad enough depression to kill himself.

[stormshadow19]

Let's not say Nirvana was the worst thing ever to happen to music... but the best "grunge" band, or even the most revolutionary? Booz said it best. It's Alice in Chains. Jerry Cantrell is a personified genius. Layne Staley and him, they had some of the most beautiful chemistry ever, in music. Layne's voice just sounded right, and Jerry's guitar and lyrics complimented him.

But, let's face facts, they all pale in comparison to Kelly Clarkson.

(I'm secure in my love of AiC enough to crack that joke)

[Boozer76]

Let's not say Nirvana was the worst thing ever to happen to music... but the best "grunge" band, or even the most revolutionary? Booz said it best. It's Alice in Chains. Jerry Cantrell is a personified genius. Layne Staley and him, they had some of the most beautiful chemistry ever, in music. Layne's voice just sounded right, and Jerry's guitar and lyrics complimented him.

But, let's face facts, they all pale in comparison to Kelly Clarkson.

(I'm secure in my love of AiC enough to crack that joke)

It's actually very ironic and funny that you use Kelly Clarkson as an example. American Idol is a great example of exactly what happened with Nirvana IMO. Take a relatively untalented person, dress them up to be whatever you want them to be, and give them a big contract with great sound people and BLAM!! Next big hit on the air today. Nirvana and Kelly Clarkson have alot more in common than Nirvana and revolutionary.

[Green DNA]

Cobain was a marketing genius. Blowing his brains out was a masterful Madison Avenue move. Unfortunately it was a one and done kinda deal.

[Alk]

**looking for delete button** WHERE THE **** IS IT?!?!?!?!?! :Cuss:

[stormshadow19]

It's actually very ironic and funny that you use Kelly Clarkson as an example. American Idol is a great example of exactly what happened with Nirvana IMO. Take a relatively untalented person, dress them up to be whatever you want them to be, and give them a big contract with great sound people and BLAM!! Next big hit on the air today. Nirvana and Kelly Clarkson have alot more in common than Nirvana and revolutionary.

I don't think you're giving Nirvana enough credit. Yes, they get far too much credit for being so "revolutionary". They're not the Beatles (who stole all their sh*t from Elvis and Buddy Holly), but they're not American Idol, either. Nirvana wasn't just Kurt Cobain, but Krist and Dave Ghrol too. And, it's not as if they didn't write their own music, either. The thing about the "grunge" movement was, it wasn't about self indulgent solos and music about pouring sugar on yourself, it was about the words, the meaning behind the music, and that. Yeah, Nirvana wasn't the world's greatest band, but they're not as bad as you make them out to be. And, have you heard Queens of the Stone Age or the Foo Fighters? Ghrol, the drummer from Nirvana, is one hell of a talent. Yeah, Nirvana's songs aren't complicated, but they're still good. And they sounded good, too.

[Panzer Division Marduk]

Nirvana sucked to high ****ing heaven. Cobain was a ****ing talentless whiny junkie.

And as for the whole "Nirvana saved music" thing...bull****.

[Boozer76]

I don't think you're giving Nirvana enough credit. Yes, they get far too much credit for being so "revolutionary". They're not the Beatles (who stole all their sh*t from Elvis and Buddy Holly), but they're not American Idol, either. Nirvana wasn't just Kurt Cobain, but Krist and Dave Ghrol too. And, it's not as if they didn't write their own music, either. The thing about the "grunge" movement was, it wasn't about self indulgent solos and music about pouring sugar on yourself, it was about the words, the meaning behind the music, and that. Yeah, Nirvana wasn't the world's greatest band, but they're not as bad as you make them out to be. And, have you heard Queens of the Stone Age or the Foo Fighters? Ghrol, the drummer from Nirvana, is one hell of a talent. Yeah, Nirvana's songs aren't complicated, but they're still good. And they sounded good, too.

I take nothing away from Grohl. As I mentioned earlier, I think he was the most talented musician in the group. I'm sure Cobain wrote the lyrics, although I feel they're overrated as well. But the actual music behind it is all studio generated. You can't tell me that any band out there would go through such a significant sound transformation from their first album to the next on their own without prompting. Geffen changed everything about them, because where they were headed prior to Smells Like Teen Spirit was nowhere fast. Like I said, this band was a corporate driven creation with absolutely no musical creativity, and a pop/rock/grunge sound that was fed to the masses over and over till it caught on. Then they distorted history and claimed that Nirvana was the first grunge band around to further elevate the propaganda.

[Boozer76]

To further prove my point, here is the release date for Nirvana's Nevermind album-09/24/91. Here's AIC''s first album release Facelift, which was their debut album including Man in the Box, Sea of Sorrow, and It Ain't Like That, all of which had video releases prior to Nirvana-06/30/90. MTV and the record companies like Geffen clearly saw the revolution coming from SEA, and it was headed by AIC at the time. Nirvana was nothing more than a garage band in comparison. My honest guess, MTV probably tried to approach AIC to dress them up as their pawns and they told them to go to hell. That's where Nirvana came in.

[stormshadow19]

I take nothing away from Grohl. As I mentioned earlier, I think he was the most talented musician in the group. I'm sure Cobain wrote the lyrics, although I feel they're overrated as well. But the actual music behind it is all studio generated. You can't tell me that any band out there would go through such a significant sound transformation from their first album to the next on their own without prompting. Geffen changed everything about them, because where they were headed prior to Smells Like Teen Spirit was nowhere fast. Like I said, this band was a corporate driven creation with absolutely no musical creativity, and a pop/rock/grunge sound that was fed to the masses over and over till it caught on. Then they distorted history and claimed that Nirvana was the first grunge band around to further elevate the propaganda.

Well yeah, sure they were created. They were given a direction. You can't fault them for that. All those Seattle bands sound similar. They're all tuned down a half step, full step, or whatever.

And, if you can't respect Nirvana for what they did for music (killing hair metal, which is true, as they were the band that made it big, first), at least respect them for making a boatload of cash of off idiots, like myself, when I was 10-12.

Nirvana was not the world's greatest band. As a matter of fact, they're probably my least favorite to come out of that era. Well... save for Smashing Pumpkins. Billy Corgan just annoys the sh*t out of me. They're still better than all that hair metal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed that Nirvana gets the credit that should belong to AiC, but they're not that bad. If you should be mad at anything, be mad at Courtney Love. She's the devil.

[The Troll]

I agree with Boozer.

Nirvana got all the pub, but they were one of the least talented bands to come from the grunge era. Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and the Smashing Pumpkins, to name a few, were all vastly superior.

[stormshadow19]

To further prove my point, here is the release date for Nirvana's Nevermind album-09/24/91. Here's AIC''s first album release Facelift, which was their debut album including Man in the Box, Sea of Sorrow, and It Ain't Like That, all of which had video releases prior to Nirvana-06/30/90. MTV and the record companies like Geffen clearly saw the revolution coming from SEA, and it was headed by AIC at the time. Nirvana was nothing more than a garage band in comparison. My honest guess, MTV probably tried to approach AIC to dress them up as their pawns and they told them to go to hell. That's where Nirvana came in.

Just for the record, AiC is my most favorite band. I don't like Nirvana, as much as say... Pearl Jam or anything else that came out of that era. In my mind, and which will probably get me alot of heat, Nirvana reminds me of the Beatles. How so? I feel the Beatles are vastly overrated. They stole from Elvis and Boddy Holly. Had Buddy lived, he would have been huge. That and Paul McCartney is a d*ckhead.

[Preston Howley III]

Screaming Tree's were the best Seattle band. Ever. Pearl Jam SUCKS. bad. How bad does Pearl Jam suck? I'll tell ya.

Back then, we were all starving for the next "big thing" (ie American Led Zeppelin) and Pearl Jam fit the bill. So I tried...

I listened to their CD's, gave them lots of play time...

But...

It was lacking. Period. Their best songs are the cover versions (they did a cool version of the Dead Boys Sonic Reducer, and that 50's tune where oh where can my baby be the lord took her away from me etc).

How dissapointed was I in Pearl Jam? I recall hearing this cool song on the radio one day, and saying "Yeah! Pearl Jam finally has a song that I LIKE!!!"

It turned out it was Stone Temple Pilots.

[Green DNA]

Nirvana reminds me of the Beatles. How so? I feel the Beatles are vastly overrated. They stole from Elvis and Boddy Holly.

You are out of your mind, the Beatles are one of the most talented influential bands ever. Like them or not, you would have a tough time defending the "they suck" side of the argument. They didn't rip off Buddy Holly and Elvis, they were influenced by them. Any musician is influenced by those that come before them.

[stormshadow19]

You are out of your mind, the Beatles are one of the most talented influential bands ever. Like them or not, you would have a tough time defending the "they suck" side of the argument. They didn't rip off Buddy Holly and Elvis, they were influenced by them. Any musician is influenced by those that come before them.

This is the type of heat I was speaking of.

And, I never said they suck. I said they ripped off Elvis and Buddy Holly. Huge difference.

[stormshadow19]

Screaming Tree's were the best Seattle band. Ever. Pearl Jam SUCKS. bad. How bad does Pearl Jam suck? I'll tell ya.

Back then, we were all starving for the next "big thing" (ie American Led Zeppelin) and Pearl Jam fit the bill. So I tried...

I listened to their CD's, gave them lots of play time...

But...

It was lacking. Period. Their best songs are the cover versions (they did a cool version of the Dead Boys Sonic Reducer, and that 50's tune where oh where can my baby be the lord took her away from me etc).

How dissapointed was I in Pearl Jam? I recall hearing this cool song on the radio one day, and saying "Yeah! Pearl Jam finally has a song that I LIKE!!!"

It turned out it was Stone Temple Pilots.

That song was "Last Kiss". The second song, on that single, Soilder of Love... which I think is another cover, is also a good song. I stopped following Pearl Jam after Vitology came out. I like Immortality. That's about it. That and Once, off of Ten.

[Sharrow]

This is the type of heat I was speaking of.

And, I never said they suck. I said they ripped off Elvis and Buddy Holly. Huge difference.

So Elvis and Buddy Holly never "ripped off" anyone? Give me a break.

Also Dave Grohl wasn't even part of Nirvana when they made Bleach. Some of the songs on Nevermind had already been played by the band for a while, they just hadn't been recorded yet. So I think some of you are overestimating this big conspiracy theory that Nirvana was created by MTV and the music industry, they didn't expect Nevermind to sell very well at all. Andy Wallace was the genius behind that mixing, not geffin or mtv. And I don't think anyone who knows anything thinks that Nirvana invented "grunge." They just brought it to the top, 3 months after the release they bumped Michael Jackson for #1.

[vinnys025]

i agree booz...i never knew who he was until his wife shot him....

there music is horrible..

Well, I was a big fan when he died and can say your way off. He changed rock music, in a good way, and in a bad way. His style has been copied over and over since he started Nirvana, I can name a bunch of bands that sprung up after Niravana started out. And to say he had no talent is to be ignorant. Just listen to his unplugged album and then come back here and tell me he has no talent. I really dont know what some of you guys were listening to at times. But, to each his own I guess, we all have different tastes.

[dickkotite]

I agree with Boozer.

Nirvana got all the pub, but they were one of the least talented bands to come from the grunge era. Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and the Smashing Pumpkins, to name a few, were all vastly superior.

see even though i am not a big nirvana fan they crush every band that you have mentioned there

nirvana is an important band you just have a bad assoc with them

[vanDoug]

I'll take Alice in Chains over any of the Seattle bands mentioned in this thread anyday.

Jerry Cantrell = great songwriting, playing, vocals.

Layne was messed up, but musically worked well with Jerry.

Cool harmonies and classic distortion.

Solid bass and drumming.

Angry Chair coming right up on my player.

cheers,

d

[Preston Howley III]

I'll take Alice in Chains over any of the Seattle bands mentioned in this thread anyday.

Jerry Cantrell = great songwriting, playing, vocals.

Layne was messed up, but musically worked well with Jerry.

Cool harmonies and classic distortion.

Solid bass and drumming.

Angry Chair coming right up on my player.

cheers,

d

I stand corrected. Alice in Chains were the best band to come out of Seattle. Screaming trees are second.

Cobain? The guy lucked out. No other way to describe it. It's so fcking obvious to anybody paying attention that the drummer - THE DRUMMER- of Nirvana was the talent there. Foo Fighters first album just kicks the crap out of anything Cobain "wrote" when he was stoned on smack.

[Preston Howley III]

I'm just curious and I'm too lazy to go over this whole thread but-

Did anybody mention Soundgarden?

[vanDoug]

I'm just curious and I'm too lazy to go over this whole thread but-

Did anybody mention Soundgarden?

Two guys in that band stand out for me. (sorry if I mess the names)

Kim Thayall &

Chris Cornell

Chris went on to other stuff. Never heard what happened to Kim.

d

[Boozer76]

Just listen to his unplugged album and then come back here and tell me he has no talent. I really dont know what some of you guys were listening to at times. But, to each his own I guess, we all have different tastes.

The unplugged album? What, so 3 power chord songs are suddenly talented when they're played on an acoustic guitar? Please. AIC's unplugged humiliates Nirvana. Cobain couldn't play a guitar to save his life. He was just plain aweful. It's like his fingers were molded to stay in one particular shape so he could play a power chord anywhere on a guitar. What, that little riff at the beginning of "The Man Who Sold The World" is supposed to get my panties wet? At least Cantrell can add some tasteful guitar to what he does, along with he and Layne Staley's harmonies and you get probably the most compelluing acoustic grunge album of all time. The "Grunge" era is like this:

Heavy:

AIC

Soundgarden

Screaming Trees

Rock:

Pearl Jam

STP

Pretentously dramatic:

Smashing Pumpkins

Overhyped MTV product:

Nirvana