Aaron Rodgers Still Wants To Come Back And Play This Season

[dbatesman]

35 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Is AVT going to stay healthy? 
 

One of the worst aspects about JD’s tenure here is that the best OL he has drafted hasn’t finished a season in his first three years in the league. 

I’ll go farther than that. Isn’t Tomlinson the only guy who hasn’t missed time? I think over the past three years, literally every other OL—rookies, veterans, high draft picks, low draft picks, FA signings, PS callups, scrapheap guys—has missed at least a game or two. There’s something systemically wrong here, and it goes well beyond the turf.

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

They’ll be better by virtue of Zach Wilson not being on the team, serving as a living, breathing example of merit and accountability not existing inside Florham Park, and the corrections that Douglas has to make are pretty self-evident and achievable. However, it’s going to come down whether or not Douglas has the spine to hold off Woody and Saleh has the spine to hold off Rodgers this offseason so they can get the necessary work done.

Ok, so I just have to ask:

Even if they develop a spine, why would we assume that Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh have any clue what has to be done? Saleh's big contribution to the offense this past offseason was to pound the table for Keith Carter - possibly one of the worst position coaches we have ever hired (and that's giving him a pass for Hackett - who he also raved about all offseason). And Douglas is the guy who drafted Zach Wilson to begin with? 

It seems that in your obsessive zeal to blame everything on Zach Wison, you are underselling the other massive mistakes made by this coaching staff and front office. 

Douglas and Saleh are 16-32 together, with back to back late season collapses. Douglas's best record here is 7-9 with Mac's team in 2019. 

[Barry McCockinner]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I’ll go farther than that. Isn’t Tomlinson the only guy who hasn’t missed time? I think over the past three years, literally every other OL—rookies, veterans, high draft picks, low draft picks, FA signings, PS callups, scrapheap guys—has missed at least a game or two. There’s something systemically wrong here, and it goes well beyond the turf.

What in the world could possibly be systemically wrong that is specifically causing our o-line to be hit with a grenade every year? Not arguing, just can't imagine anything. It's wild how hard this unit has been hit the last 2 years.

[TuscanyTile2]

17 minutes ago, derp said:

I think best GM alive burns most of this to the ground and starts fresh instead of trying to ensure a 40 going on 41 year old QB can survive and chase success he won’t find. 

Best case people get fired, he gets mad, requests a trade, and some team lets the Jets recoup a little of the capital they gave up (obviously they won’t get it all). Won’t happen though.

Would just add a lot more has gone wrong than just the Wilson pick. Multiple high draft picks and expensive free agents. Most of each, even.

I think the best GM (or even a good GM) would scout QBs and, if he felt like there was one to be had, he'd take him.  And while I'm no expert, I'm thinking Jayden Daniels could potentially be available when we pick.  Then sit him for a year to allow him to learn the game, while buying the GM time to put talent around him.  

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What in the world could possibly be systemically wrong that is specifically causing our o-line to be hit with a grenade every year? Not arguing, just can't imagine anything. It's wild how hard this unit has been hit the last 2 years.

I have no idea. It’s as mystifying as it is frustrating. But this is three years in a row, with radically different personnel each time. There has to be something going on, right?

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I have no idea. It’s as mystifying as it is frustrating. But this is three years in a row, with radically different personnel each time. There has to be something going on, right?

@Barry McCockinner just to add to this: the really frustrating thing is that Douglas and Saleh don’t seem to have an answer either. They’ve both been open about their frustration with the OL injuries, and yet here we are. It’s one of the scariest things about bringing this group back for another year.

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

@Barry McCockinner just to add to this: the really frustrating thing is that Douglas and Saleh don’t seem to have an answer either. They’ve both been open about their frustration with the OL injuries, and yet here we are. It’s one of the scariest things about bringing this group back for another year.

Maybe they need to summon Donald Rumsfeld from the grave to help them understand the unknown unknowns.

[derp]

27 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think the best GM (or even a good GM) would scout QBs and, if he felt like there was one to be had, he'd take him.  And while I'm no expert, I'm thinking Jayden Daniels could potentially be available when we pick.  Then sit him for a year to allow him to learn the game, while buying the GM time to put talent around him.  

I think there’s so much important stuff about the quarterback evaluation process that we as fans will never have access to. The between the ears stuff in a lot of ways - speed of processing on field, competitiveness, leadership traits and how teammates respond to someone, work ethic - goes such a long way to whether a quarterback has success.

I also get a bit if an Anthony Richardson last year vibe regarding Daniels, in that we assume he will be available now but come draft day it’ll be obvious he’ll be long gone.

All that said, I’d love to watch a quarterback with Daniels’ skill set play for the Jets and also would be thrilled if they’d legitimately sit their young QB for a year.

And if they could get a decent veteran in the interim it’d be cool to see what this defense and Garrett Wilson could do with an upgrade to like, 25th best QB in the league level play. Nothing crazy.

[T0mShane]

36 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Ok, so I just have to ask:

Even if they develop a spine, why would we assume that Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh have any clue what has to be done? Saleh's big contribution to the offense this past offseason was to pound the table for Keith Carter - possibly one of the worst position coaches we have ever hired (and that's giving him a pass for Hackett - who he also raved about all offseason). And Douglas is the guy who drafted Zach Wilson to begin with? 

It seems that in your obsessive zeal to blame everything on Zach Wison, you are underselling the other massive mistakes made by this coaching staff and front office. 

Douglas and Saleh are 16-32 together, with back to back late season collapses. Douglas's best record here is 7-9 with Mac's team in 2019. 

I don’t think Saleh “pounded the table” for Keith Carter. I think they hired Todd Downing and Todd Downing recommended Keith Carter. As far as my level of confidence in Saleh, I wouldn’t say it’s particularly high, but that’s based mostly upon his aversion to dump dead weight from the roster, which I don’t think is his call anyway. That said, we’ve seen Saleh’s deeply undermanned team go out and beat up on very good teams the past two seasons, and did so with nothing from the QB position. When you look around the league, most teams look middling to average right now, except for the Niners. The difference between where the Jets are today and where they *could be* next year isn’t as big as it looks right now. Hell, this sh*tty team just nuked one the NFL’s newest darlings two weeks ago, simply by virtue of the QB putting up a decent game. 

[derp]

28 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

@Barry McCockinner just to add to this: the really frustrating thing is that Douglas and Saleh don’t seem to have an answer either. They’ve both been open about their frustration with the OL injuries, and yet here we are. It’s one of the scariest things about bringing this group back for another year.

Something about relying on a 360+ pound man with a history of weight problems and injuries along with a 37 then 38 year old as bookend tackles, then moving the only good OL - who doesn’t quite have the physical tools to play tackle - outside as a Hail Mary when plan A shockingly doesn’t work out.

The OL needed more developmental depth picks earlier in Douglas’ tenure after it became evident his early FA classes were just intended to patch the problem instead of be long term solutions. Somehow he missed this obvious outcome and had to scramble again at multiple spots.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I think best GM alive burns most of this to the ground and starts fresh instead of trying to ensure a 40 going on 41 year old QB can survive and chase success he won’t find. 

Best case people get fired, he gets mad, requests a trade, and some team lets the Jets recoup a little of the capital they gave up (obviously they won’t get it all). Won’t happen though.

Would just add a lot more has gone wrong than just the Wilson pick. Multiple high draft picks and expensive free agents. Most of each, even.

That’s the thing—it’s not even burndownable. Rodgers is locked in. Mosely is locked in. Lazard is locked in, etc. Unless you want to start trading Garrett Wilson, Sauce, etc, there aren’t too many moves to be made for 24 anyway. Agreed that Douglas and Saleh have put up fireable resumes here, but making that move now doesn’t buy you much. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t think Saleh “pounded the table” for Keith Carter. I think they hired Todd Downing and Todd Downing recommended Keith Carter. As far as my level of confidence in Saleh, I wouldn’t say it’s particularly high, but that’s based mostly upon his aversion to dump dead weight from the roster, which I don’t think is his call anyway. That said, we’ve seen Saleh’s deeply undermanned team go out and beat up on very good teams the past two seasons, and did so with nothing from the QB position. When you look around the league, most teams look middling to average right now, except for the Niners. The difference between where the Jets are today and where they *could be* next year isn’t as big as it looks right now. Hell, this sh*tty team just nuked one the NFL’s newest darlings two weeks ago, simply by virtue of the QB putting up a decent game. 

Saleh himself talked about how much he prioritized getting Carter here. Btw, that was a hire that was mocked by a number of folks the day it happened because Tennessee's OL was NOT good last year. Either way, it was a terrible hire. The QB coach isn't responsible for hiring the OL coach, the head coach is. Saleh has no clue what he's doing on offense. The only thing that miiiiight save him next year is Rodgers returning to form and that is a big IF. 

 

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As far as my level of confidence in Saleh, I wouldn’t say it’s particularly high, but that’s based mostly upon his aversion to dump dead weight from the roster, which I don’t think is his call anyway. That said, we’ve seen Saleh’s deeply undermanned team go out and beat up on very good teams the past two seasons, and did so with nothing from the QB position. 

Occasionally, I guess? The only good team they really "beat up on" this year was Houston, who was deeply undermanned themselves. The Bills and Eagles wins were as miraculous as they come. I mean, at the end of the day, the guy has lost 2/3 of his games over 3 years and is 3-15 in the division, and I believe 6 of those losses have been by three scores or more. And he just lost 30-0 to an undermanned Miami team after losing to that same team by 21 points three weeks ago. It's just really bad. Aaaron Rodgers is the only reason he's getting another shot. 

 

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The difference between where the Jets are today and where they *could be* next year isn’t as big as it looks right now. 

This is right, I think. Rodgers can certainly make the team decent if he's still good. If he's not . . . oh boy. Either way, I don't think Saleh is a good head coach. If he wins here, it will be as a passenger on the Aaaron Rodgers comeback train. We'd be much better off longterm nuking this coaching staff and hiring an offensive coach. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

That’s the thing—it’s not even burndownable. Rodgers is locked in. Mosely is locked in. Lazard is locked in, etc. Unless you want to start trading Garrett Wilson, Sauce, etc, there aren’t too many moves to be made for 24 anyway. Agreed that Douglas and Saleh have put up fireable resumes here, but making that move now doesn’t buy you much. 

I wonder if they could grab a 2nd rounder for Reed.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Saleh himself talked about how much he prioritized getting Carter here. Btw, that was a hire that was mocked by a number of folks the day it happened because Tennessee's OL was NOT good last year. Either way, it was a terrible hire. The QB coach isn't responsible for hiring the OL coach, the head coach is. Saleh has no clue what he's doing on offense. The only thing that miiiiight save him next year is Rodgers returning to form and that is a big IF. 

 

Occasionally, I guess? The only good team they really "beat up on" this year was Houston, who was deeply undermanned themselves. The Bills and Eagles wins were as miraculous as they come. I mean, at the end of the day, the guy has lost 2/3 of his games over 3 years and is 3-15 in the division, and I believe 6 of those losses have been by three scores or more. And he just lost 30-0 to an undermanned Miami team after losing to that same team by 21 points three weeks ago. It's just really bad. Aaaron Rodgers is the only reason he's getting another shot. 

 

This is right, I think. Rodgers can certainly make the team decent if he's still good. If he's not . . . oh boy. Either way, I don't think Saleh is a good head coach. If he wins here, it will be as a passenger on the Aaaron Rodgers comeback train. We'd be much better off longterm nuking this coaching staff and hiring an offensive coach. 

The problem still is that there’s no viable backup qb option out there that turns this roster into a playoff contender if rodgers is hurt.  This is why im wondering if they sacrifice the 2025 draft by trading a top pick to get a qb prospect so they can say they’re ready for the present and future.  

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is already starting, btw:

 

Just as "I don't want 2024 to be my last year" is code for "you better not draft a QB in the 1st," this is code for "I'll make it known to the media if you don't sign the guys I want, and you don't have the cachet to survive that." There's zero chance that Woody, Douglas, Saleh, or anyone else in the organization has either the brains to outmaneuver this or the balls to outright shut it down. This is a 7-10 operation next year.

HAHA, one horse open sleigh right off a cliff into the ocean like so many lemmings before us. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

@Barry McCockinner just to add to this: the really frustrating thing is that Douglas and Saleh don’t seem to have an answer either. They’ve both been open about their frustration with the OL injuries, and yet here we are. It’s one of the scariest things about bringing this group back for another year.

coincidentally, Saleh did address this topic in his presser today

 

[slimjasi]

18 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I wonder if they could grab a 2nd rounder for Reed.

I'd only rob Peter to pay Paul if we are getting an established guy. 

I'd trade Reed for a good veteran WR, but probably not a 2nd rounder. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I'd only rob Peter to pay Paul if we are getting an established guy. 

I'd trade Reed for a good veteran WR, but probably not a 2nd rounder. 

That would be a solid move. Bryce Hall filled in well when called on this year. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'd only rob Peter to pay Paul if we are getting an established guy. 

I'd trade Reed for a good veteran WR, but probably not a 2nd rounder. 

Don’t see them getting rid of him, but i can see them flipping huff and turning him into a starting guard.

[slimjasi]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

That would be a solid move. Bryce Hall filled in well when called on this year. 

Yep, I've been thinking about it for a couple of weeks now. 

I think I'd dangle Reed as trade bait to try to improve the offense. I'm not sure for who, but Reed is a really good corner on a very good contract. I would think he would garner real interest and I don't think losing him cripples us. 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Yep, I've been thinking about it for a couple of weeks now. 

I think I'd dangle Reed as trade bait to try to improve the offense. I'm not sure for who, but Reed is a really good corner on a very good contract. I would think he would garner real interest and I don't think losing him cripples us. 

Yep, I could see them franchising Huff and then trading him for a piece on offense. OL are usually hard to trade for, but I think a really good edge like Huff would garner some real interest. 

[T0mShane]

27 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Saleh himself talked about how much he prioritized getting Carter here. Btw, that was a hire that was mocked by a number of folks the day it happened because Tennessee's OL was NOT good last year. Either way, it was a terrible hire. The QB coach isn't responsible for hiring the OL coach, the head coach is. Saleh has no clue what he's doing on offense. The only thing that miiiiight save him next year is Rodgers returning to form and that is a big IF. 

 

Occasionally, I guess? The only good team they really "beat up on" this year was Houston, who was deeply undermanned themselves. The Bills and Eagles wins were as miraculous as they come. I mean, at the end of the day, the guy has lost 2/3 of his games over 3 years and is 3-15 in the division, and I believe 6 of those losses have been by three scores or more. And he just lost 30-0 to an undermanned Miami team after losing to that same team by 21 points three weeks ago. It's just really bad. Aaaron Rodgers is the only reason he's getting another shot. 

 

This is right, I think. Rodgers can certainly make the team decent if he's still good. If he's not . . . oh boy. Either way, I don't think Saleh is a good head coach. If he wins here, it will be as a passenger on the Aaaron Rodgers comeback train. We'd be much better off longterm nuking this coaching staff and hiring an offensive coach. 

You know what? Watch this. This is growth. Ahem. 
 

I was wrong. Saleh did hire Keith Carter. 
 

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You know what? Watch this. This is growth. Ahem. 
 

I was wrong. Saleh did hire Keith Carter. 
 

Haha, yea he talked about it in the press conference after he was hired. And I remember people being like "but didn't Tennessee's OL kinda suck with him?"

Saleh hired his buddy, which he has a penchant for doing. 

The NY Friends!!!!!! 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Yep, I could see them franchising Huff and then trading him for a piece on offense. OL are usually hard to trade for, but I think a really good edge like Huff would garner some real interest. 

I think huff is the unfortunate expendable piece on defense they would part with to turn into an offensive asset.  Bigger picture is that even with 2 new OL, avt returning and a decent wr addition, the entire team’s fortunes are riding on a very old qb with no young promising qb or savvy veteran qb who can win them games. Even if they drafted a qb in round 2, at least they’d have some qb depth and talent to support rodgers when he misses games.  The entire jd/saleh/rodgers regime is currently a 2 year plan, and seemingly even if it works there’s still no replacement qb for rodgers which suggests that if they don’t win the Super Bowl they’re burning everything down as rodgers rides out of town on his horse. 

[derp]

40 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That’s the thing—it’s not even burndownable. Rodgers is locked in. Mosely is locked in. Lazard is locked in, etc. Unless you want to start trading Garrett Wilson, Sauce, etc, there aren’t too many moves to be made for 24 anyway. Agreed that Douglas and Saleh have put up fireable resumes here, but making that move now doesn’t buy you much. 

If the team isn’t going anywhere, getting the guy who will double and triple down on mistakes out of the GM chair avoids you having the same problem a year or two later - right?

It’s not a move for 2024, it’s for 2025+. But a new guy can sit for a year and let the team take their medicine in a way Douglas with $5M in cap space and on the hottest seat imaginable cannot.

Also cutting Mosley saves $11M, Tomlinson $8M, Uzomah $5M - all pre June 1. Those are non trivial numbers.