If the Jets draft Brock Bowers I quit!!!!!!!!!

[derp]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I do wonder where his actual value lies. I assume between a third and fourth rounder. We gave Herndon for a fourth. I imagine Conklin will fetch more.

A fourth for Herndon was a gift, I don’t think it’s worth using as a comparison point. Herndon was also on his rookie deal. 

[Maxman]

Just read the whole article. This is bad.

@T0mShane the Jets are lucky they don't have locker room leadership problems like this. 

[Lupz27]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:11 AM, derp said:

Hockenson and Pitts may be the only tight ends drafted in the top ten left in the league. Looks like Eric Ebron is retired at 30.

By receiving yards this year: Kittle went in the fifth, Kelce the third, Engram late first, Hockenson top ten, LaPorta early second, Njoku late first, McBride late second, Ferguson fourth. Those are the tight ends in the top 50 of the league of receiving yards (none top 20 this year).

Mark Andrews who almost certainly would’ve been there if healthy was drafted in the third too. Andrews was top ten a couple years ago and it looks like Kelce was top fifteen each of the seven years before this season which is pretty incredible.

You get a big farm boy who played either in the Mid West, or the North West.

[Paradis]

On 1/14/2024 at 6:08 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't watch a ton of college football but I do know the hype around Bowers. 

 

[Lupz27]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

 

Where is the Brock Bowers highlights of his long list of injury history in that reel I missed it.

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Where is the Brock Bowers highlights of his long list of injury history in that reel I missed it.

Dude, you're coming across as a meat head now. You needed to stop at "I don't want him" ...The man had one significant injury in college and somehow manage to beat the curve and return towards the end of the season. 

What's next. gasoline & self-immolation at Tenement Square?

@JustInFudge I just don't have the fuel for this guy right now, any chance i can tag you in - Demolition style? 

[bonkertons]

4 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Where is the Brock Bowers highlights of his long list of injury history in that reel I missed it.

Oh so you'd take the TE 10th overall if it wasn't for the injuries?  I was under the impression you just didn't think he was that good.

[bonkertons]

16 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Dude, you're coming across as a meat head now. You needed to stop at "I don't want him" ...The man had one significant injury in college and somehow manage to beat the curve and return towards the end of the season. 

What's next. gasoline & self-immolation at Tenement Square?

@JustInFudge I just don't have the fuel for this guy right now, any chance i can tag you in - Demolition style? 

It's funny, for all of his "long injury history" he still played more college games than any top TE prospect I could find, ever.  

[Lupz27]

27 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Dude, you're coming across as a meat head now. You needed to stop at "I don't want him" ...The man had one significant injury in college and somehow manage to beat the curve and return towards the end of the season. 

What's next. gasoline & self-immolation at Tenement Square?

@JustInFudge I just don't have the fuel for this guy right now, any chance i can tag you in - Demolition style? 

Give me his medicals.

Then tell me you would risk your career on taking him in the top 10.

You would need a new career.

You guys haven’t learned from guys like Dee Milner?

[Lupz27]

4 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Oh so you'd take the TE 10th overall if it wasn't for the injuries?  I was under the impression you just didn't think he was that good.

No. Never take one, no matter what, but you guys need more reasons then that apparently so I have more.

[JustInFudge]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

Dude, you're coming across as a meat head now. You needed to stop at "I don't want him" ...The man had one significant injury in college and somehow manage to beat the curve and return towards the end of the season. 

What's next. gasoline & self-immolation at Tenement Square?

@JustInFudge I just don't have the fuel for this guy right now, any chance i can tag you in - Demolition style? 

I don’t even understand what’s going on.

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Give me his medicals.

Then tell me you would risk your career on taking him in the top 10.

You would need a new career.

You guys haven’t learned from guys like Dee Milner?

Do you have his medicals?

[Lupz27]

14 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Do you have his medicals?

Tight rope surgery in October.

Shoulder surgery February 2022.

That’s 2 surgeries in the last 2 years.

I’d be shocked if he ever plays a full season healthy the way he plays.

 

You guys are confusing things.

This isn’t I hate Brock Bowers.

This is no ******* way I draft him at 10 period.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Tight rope surgery in October.

Shoulder surgery February 2022.

That’s 2 surgeries in the last 2 years.

I’d be shocked if he ever plays a full season healthy the way he plays.

 

You guys are confusing things.

This isn’t I hate Brock Bowers.

This is no ******* way I draft him at 10 period.

 

 

That’s not a long injury history.  He’s played 2 of 3 years healthy. You’re being silly 

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

That’s not a long injury history.  He’s played 2 of 3 years healthy. You’re being silly 

Again we will just have to wait and revisit this.

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Again we will just have to wait and revisit this.

Revisiting this and creating silly narratives are 2 different things.  Look, I dont really care but you clearly created some rule up in your head and are making the prospect fit your predetermined rule about drafting TE's.  You clearly know nothing about him as a player/prospect and that's fine but I'm going to call out the silliness. 

[Lupz27]

6 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Revisiting this and creating silly narratives are 2 different things.  Look, I dont really care but you clearly created some rule up in your head and are making the prospect fit your predetermined rule about drafting TE's.  You clearly know nothing about him as a player/prospect and that's fine but I'm going to call out the silliness. 

No no no 

I know all about Bowers he is RB/WR/TE who plays TE your right he is a rare find.

But you still don’t draft him top 10.

He is a TE at the end of the day in the NFL probably in the mold of Isiah Likely and Mark Andrews combined.  Amazing player.

He also won’t ever quit works his ass off has the competitive level you rarely find.

I know all about Bowers don’t act like I’m some fool who doesn’t research his prospects.

Kid scored TD’s almost every game and in every way rushing receiving ect.

This type of play tends to lead to constant injuries (had one in each of the last 2 years).  I’m not doing that for a TE at 10.

Again we disagree.

If he becomes what you think he will I’ll take the sh*t storm.  But I really won’t be upset cause I’m still never drafting a TE at 10 as an NFL GM period.

[T0mShane]

14 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

Do you have his medicals?

He’s 21 years old and is already balding. Hard, hard pass.

 

[JustInFudge]

31 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

No no no 

I know all about Bowers he is RB/WR/TE who plays TE your right he is a rare find.

But you still don’t draft him top 10.

He is a TE at the end of the day in the NFL probably in the mold of Isiah Likely and Mark Andrews combined.  Amazing player.

He also won’t ever quit works his ass off has the competitive level you rarely find.

I know all about Bowers don’t act like I’m some fool who doesn’t research his prospects.

Kid scored TD’s almost every game and in every way rushing receiving ect.

This type of play tends to lead to constant injuries (had one in each of the last 2 years).  I’m not doing that for a TE at 10.

Again we disagree.

If he becomes what you think he will I’ll take the sh*t storm.  But I really won’t be upset cause I’m still never drafting a TE at 10 as an NFL GM period.

Well forgive me, but you've compared him to Kyle Pitts and said he has a long injury history, and you're also saying that his "playing style" leads to injuries, none of which carry any merit or weight and Pitts is a terrible terrible comparison as they're not alike at all.

And the bold is what I mean, it's a form of confirmation bias and hard to even remotely take you serious on Bowers because you're clearly fitting the situation to your predetermined draft rules.  I think that's a really dumb way to look at the draft but all good, you do you. 

[JustInFudge]

39 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s 21 years old and is already balding. Hard, hard pass.

 

He'll just join Tom Brady's hair club.

[maury77]

54 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He’s 21 years old and is already balding. Hard, hard pass.

 

That means he has a lot of testosterone. That's a good thing for a football player :).

[Lupz27]

27 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Well forgive me, but you've compared him to Kyle Pitts and said he has a long injury history, and you're also saying that his "playing style" leads to injuries, none of which carry any merit or weight and Pitts is a terrible terrible comparison as they're not alike at all.

And the bold is what I mean, it's a form of confirmation bias and hard to even remotely take you serious on Bowers because you're clearly fitting the situation to your predetermined draft rules.  I think that's a really dumb way to look at the draft but all good, you do you. 

If I was really the GM in charge TE is never in my list at 10 no matter what you are correct.

And I bet there are 20 other real GM’s who think the same way.

Unfortunatley some of those GM’s get pushed by the HC and make mistakes like drafting ANY TE top 10.

We disagree on how to build a roster not on the prospect at hand.

I have plenty of history to show I know WTF I’m talking about as do you so we have to just differ you can call it bias or whatever.

[Lupz27]

29 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Well forgive me, but you've compared him to Kyle Pitts and said he has a long injury history, and you're also saying that his "playing style" leads to injuries, none of which carry any merit or weight and Pitts is a terrible terrible comparison as they're not alike at all.

And the bold is what I mean, it's a form of confirmation bias and hard to even remotely take you serious on Bowers because you're clearly fitting the situation to your predetermined draft rules.  I think that's a really dumb way to look at the draft but all good, you do you. 

And he does have an injury history if you want to dismiss that fine.

Yes compared to Pitts not as the same type of player but as a freak TE that will get overdrafted if he is taken in the top 15-20 IMO.

You don’t like that opinion oh well.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

If I was really the GM in charge TE is never in my list at 10 no matter what you are correct.

And I bet there are 20 other real GM’s who think the same way.

Unfortunatley some of those GM’s get pushed by the HC and make mistakes like drafting ANY TE top 10.

We disagree on how to build a roster not on the prospect at hand.

I have plenty of history to show I know WTF I’m talking about as do you so we have to just differ you can call it bias or whatever.

I dont really care what other GM's would do.  I think your "rule" is silly.  As I've mentioned, it's no different then saying; I'm not taking Pat Mahomes because he plays in the air raid in the Big 12.  It's just a silly way to miss out on great prospects. 

I doubt we disagree on roster building.  I'm sure we'd prioritize positions very similarly, who doesnt want great QB play, while winning in the trenches, w/ play makers on the outside?  It is the formula...but where we differ here is that there is no linear way to build that roster, you dont create rules out of blue and never vary just because you said so one day...that is illogical IMO.  You do what it takes to make your roster as dangerous as possible and that's taking the player who will have the biggest impact.  Look at the Lions last year, their first 2 picks were a RB and TE (and omg a RB in the first round!!!!) and they're probably going to play for an opportunity to go to the Super Bowl.  IMO, in this hypothetical that wont even play out anyway, there is no bigger impact player for the Jets at 10 then Bowers.  It's really that simple. 

 

[JustInFudge]

25 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

And he does have an injury history if you want to dismiss that fine.

Yes compared to Pitts not as the same type of player but as a freak TE that will get overdrafted if he is taken in the top 15-20 IMO.

You don’t like that opinion oh well.

Sir, you said "a long injury history" and "peep his medicals".  His "injury history" is no different then any player who plays Football.  You were acting as if he's a broken man.  

[Lupz27]

21 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

and omg a RB in the first round!!!!)

Go back to the 2017 draft I said if not Mahomes you take McCaffery RB gets the ball 50% of the time if he is special like CMC you can’t compare that to TE period so don’t.

[Lupz27]

22 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

As I've mentioned, it's no different then saying; I'm not taking Pat Mahomes because he plays in the air raid in the Big 12. 

It’s completely different and you know this stop.

Were talking position not scheme.

Silly to even try to compare the 2.

[Lupz27]

24 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

there is no bigger impact player for the Jets at 10 then Bowers.  It's really that simple. 

 

Any OL, Top WR is much more valuable to the Jets at 10 this is where we differ.

Bowers is a 5 touch player next year here if that.

He is a luxury pick for teams who back in the back end of the 1st round period.

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Go back to the 2017 draft I said if not Mahomes you take McCaffery RB gets the ball 50% of the time if he is special like CMC you can’t compare that to TE period so don’t.

wow!  You thought CMC was a 1st round talent!???!?!??!?!  SO BOLD!!!! 

Did you have a problem w/ his "long injury history" when he came out?  lol 

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

It’s completely different and you know this stop.

Were talking position not scheme.

Silly to even try to compare the 2.

Nope, the logic is exactly the same.  You've created a rule, out of nowhere and that's fine...but it's dumb. 

[derp]

Curious how both sides of this fun back and forth feel.

Let’s say in theory the Jets take Bowers at pick ten. What kinds of production over the course of his rookie deal and/or beyond - receptions, yards, touchdowns - make you say in retrospect he was definitely worth the pick at ten?

A qualitative description of a role in the context of team success works too if that’s more your bag.

@JustInFudge@Lupz27@Paradis

Anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome too.

[JustInFudge]

20 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Any OL, Top WR is much more valuable to the Jets at 10 this is where we differ.

Bowers is a 5 touch player next year here if that.

He is a luxury pick for teams who back in the back end of the 1st round period.

Sir, Garrett Wilson is a 5 touch player here, is he not valuable?  lol  I mean dude, you're literally just saying things at this point, that hold zero value or weight.  Just stick w/ "my philosophy is I would never draft at TE in the top 10 no matter the prospect" and stop w/ the narratives that are completely illogical.

And we're going to have disagree w/ the idea Bowers is "luxury pick" - the Jets were dead last in 1st downs and TD's in the NFL.  Dead last.  They had 1 TD from the TE position.  A player that helps you move the chains and score this thing called TD's, is not a luxury, it's a priority.  You may not know this as Jets fan but the objective of a Football team is to score TD's.  The team w/ the most amount of points, wins!  Players that help you do those things, are not luxuries, they're necessities. 

 

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, derp said:

Curious how both sides of this fun back and forth feel.

Let’s say in theory the Jets take Bowers at pick ten. What kinds of production over the course of his rookie deal and/or beyond - receptions, yards, touchdowns - make you say in retrospect he was definitely worth the pick at ten?

A qualitative description of a role in the context of team success works too if that’s more your bag.

@JustInFudge@Lupz27@Paradis

Anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome too.

It's kind of an impossible question to answer and it's hard to quantify value simply based on stats.  For example; if the Jets bring in Adams and suddenly, Rodgers has Wilson and Adams to feed the ball to...in that scenario we know he'll target them in bulk.  So say that happened and Bowers put up a Conklin like season but instead of 0 TD's and 30% 1st down conversion, he has 5 TD's and 60%.  That could be the difference in 7-14 pts game even though he's not blowing up the stat sheet.  Or say because he's a do it all TE, the protection is better, the run game is better, etc. etc. etc.  These things are hard to quantify. 

Or another way to look at it is,  G. Wilson has good numbers but also made a lot of mistakes this year and the offense continues to sucks balls, was he worth a top 10 pick?  

Or another way, Bowers is a chess piece, do it all.  How much does his ability to do anything and score from anywhere at the TE position, impact how you defend the Jets?  How much does a chess piece like him, change how you defend one of the easiest teams in the NFL to defend?  How much does he makes life easier on everyone else?  

Bottom line, he's rare weapon and for a team that lacks weapons, idk, seems like the impact could be huge.  Look at the teams left in the playoffs, all of them have a dynamic TE.  Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, Likely/Andrews, Kincaid/Knox, Shultz Musgrave/Kraft.  Seems like a pretty common theme that the best offenses, have a dynamic play maker at TE. 

 

[Lupz27]

45 minutes ago, derp said:

Curious how both sides of this fun back and forth feel.

Let’s say in theory the Jets take Bowers at pick ten. What kinds of production over the course of his rookie deal and/or beyond - receptions, yards, touchdowns - make you say in retrospect he was definitely worth the pick at ten?

A qualitative description of a role in the context of team success works too if that’s more your bag.

@JustInFudge@Lupz27@Paradis

Anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome too.

He would have to be Gates Kelce Gronk (of course none were drafted first round and you can find these types later so no need to waste the pick on Bowers).

[Lupz27]

50 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

wow!  You thought CMC was a 1st round talent!???!?!??!?!  SO BOLD!!!! 

Did you have a problem w/ his "long injury history" when he came out?  lol 

Not first round talent.

I said specifically if you want to take a game changer at 6 and your not taking Mahomes CMC is that guy period.