Who are your favorite Senior Bowl Prospects by Position?

[Chrebetfan80]

24 minutes ago, football guy said:

Everyone is going to have different rankings of these guys. We can say it’s crazy now, but last year did anyone really expect Will McDonald to go over Nolan Smith? I think we’ll be in store for a few shockers this year. Whether the Jets are the one doing it or not who knows, but I can really see 5 different tackles that could wind up being the pick 

Yea and thats kind of the point here.  If there are 5 different guys that not only could be available, but we could see being the pick, there is certainly a case that trading down could be a very viable option for Douglas.  

I do think we stay put and just take their guy at 10 and not mess around or get cute, but I think under normal circumstances with the depth of the class and the possibility of having a few guys similarly rated, if the right offer was on the table to move down a few slots and add a mid 2nd or 3rd it would have to be seriously entertained considering the needs of the team.  

[Chrebetfan80]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

The thought of dropping into the 20s and picking Suamataia, Morgan, Guyton, etc. while also picking up a second rounder is appealing. 

Yea I agree.  The more and more we hear about how variable the rankings on the tackles will be and how quality the depth of the class is, I believe if you can move into the early 20s and add a 2nd rounder it is the better move as to staying at 10.   I wont claim to really have watched a lot of these tackles too much, I usually watch defenses way more in college or WR play since that's what I am involved with, but it just seems that many of these guys are very similarly rated for the most part.  

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Yea I agree.  The more and more we hear about how variable the rankings on the tackles will be and how quality the depth of the class is, I believe if you can move into the early 20s and add a 2nd rounder it is the better move as to staying at 10.   I wont claim to really have watched a lot of these tackles too much, I usually watch defenses way more in college or WR play since that's what I am involved with, but it just seems that many of these guys are very similarly rated for the most part.  

in fact i could see scenarios where one of the top 2 LTs is there at 10 and they still trade back and take a RT.  

[Chrebetfan80]

14 hours ago, derp said:

Granted Lazard was awful so adding two guys would be ideal.

That said conceptually for a team with limited resources - if you’ve got Lazard as being miscast in that intermediate role and better suited to function as a field stretcher, could you argue that the better allocation of resources would be adding an inside/out guy who can move around along with Wilson and play in that short-intermediate area (as compared to adding someone like Evans and still needing to fill that short-intermediate role)?

If you were not going to add a FA WR like Evans to be that other big-time force with Wilson, then yea you would probably look towards guys like Jalen Polk or Tez Walker who are a bit bigger than Wilson and can provide a little bit of the same flexibility of inside outside.  

I do think you can do some of that stuff with Corley and Wilson as well later in the draft.  Like we have said I do believe Polk and probably Walker go in the 2nd rd when all is said and done.  The value on WR's always goes up and teams go on runs early drafting them.  

Ive mentioned Jalen McMillan as a guy that can definitely help stretch the field more and he's worked as a deep crosser too which is good for play action teams. Also a good route runner, understands setting up defenders well.  

A guy i know in the industry has been talking about Ainias Smith (he trains him in the offseason)  says he's one to watch, he's going to be at the senior bowl so I'm interested to see how he does there.  Same for a Jha'quan Jackson who will be there. 

[JustInFudge]

 

Cam McCormick, college football tight end, will play an unprecedented 9th season

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/23/1226251772/cam-mccormick-college-football-tight-end-will-play-an-unprecedented-9th-season

[JustInFudge]

The NCAA Football has jumped the shark. 

[derp]

44 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

 

Cam McCormick, college football tight end, will play an unprecedented 9th season

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/23/1226251772/cam-mccormick-college-football-tight-end-will-play-an-unprecedented-9th-season

Wonder how many degrees he has.

[maury77]

17 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

 

Cam McCormick, college football tight end, will play an unprecedented 9th season

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/23/1226251772/cam-mccormick-college-football-tight-end-will-play-an-unprecedented-9th-season

This reminds me of Necessary Roughness, the football movie from the 90s, where Scott Bakula plays a 40year old QB for a college team. 

[AFJF]

Add Payton Wilson to the list at LBer.

Been talking about him for a couple years now.  Older prospect but might not be a faster LBer in the country.
 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, maury77 said:

This reminds me of Necessary Roughness, the football movie from the 90s, where Scott Bakula plays a 40year old QB for a college team. 

Yeah but in that movie he was a High School star who never attended college because he had to take over the farm when his dad died or something, he didnt go back to college for his 17th year of eligibility.

 

[derp]

On 1/23/2024 at 10:49 AM, Chrebetfan80 said:

Yea and thats kind of the point here.  If there are 5 different guys that not only could be available, but we could see being the pick, there is certainly a case that trading down could be a very viable option for Douglas.  

I do think we stay put and just take their guy at 10 and not mess around or get cute, but I think under normal circumstances with the depth of the class and the possibility of having a few guys similarly rated, if the right offer was on the table to move down a few slots and add a mid 2nd or 3rd it would have to be seriously entertained considering the needs of the team.  

I think Joe Douglas either looks at tiers very differently than consensus or does not look at them at all.

One example to me is the AVT trade up - that 2021 class was a pretty elite group through 13 players taken. Douglas paid a premium to move up and take the 14th - at a non premium position. To me you don't prioritize getting to the top of a tier. My guess would be that Douglas thought AVT belonged in that top tier - he just hasn't gotten a great return on that bet. Injuries to be sure, but AVT is also a guard at the end of the day and I think it was going to be tough picking up his fifth year option healthy or not.

The other is McDonald last year. Presumably they could've dropped down and gotten a McDonald level player - if not McDonald himself. Instead they stick and take him because they valued him very highly. Now that's at least a premium position and if he even moderately hits you can extract value on the rookie deal. Jermaine Johnson looks like he's on track to get paid more in FA than the Jets are paying him on his rookie deal, for example, even though he's not an absolute superstar.

Maybe all NFL teams had guys in tiers differently than media consensus, too. Just seems to me like Douglas tiers things up a little differently.

Now in this class it looks like there will probably be a tier of 11-12 guys at the top including 2-3 defenders. Douglas could get somebody in that tier, and if he doesn't I hope he can extract a little premium to move down. 

I do think whoever they draft, unless it's an offensive skill player, will largely be a depth and developmental piece this year - and they'll need to work hard in free agency to clean things up to position themselves for that. So I could see the value to wanting multiple depth pieces instead of just one. Just need to hope that top tier isn't significantly more of a sure thing than the second one.

I still think that drafting linemen is much more difficult than it used to be and pass catchers is much easier, too. So that plays into it.

[Chrebetfan80]

11 minutes ago, derp said:

I think Joe Douglas either looks at tiers very differently than consensus or does not look at them at all.

One example to me is the AVT trade up - that 2021 class was a pretty elite group through 13 players taken. Douglas paid a premium to move up and take the 14th - at a non premium position. To me you don't prioritize getting to the top of a tier. My guess would be that Douglas thought AVT belonged in that top tier - he just hasn't gotten a great return on that bet. Injuries to be sure, but AVT is also a guard at the end of the day and I think it was going to be tough picking up his fifth year option healthy or not.

The other is McDonald last year. Presumably they could've dropped down and gotten a McDonald level player - if not McDonald himself. Instead they stick and take him because they valued him very highly. Now that's at least a premium position and if he even moderately hits you can extract value on the rookie deal. Jermaine Johnson looks like he's on track to get paid more in FA than the Jets are paying him on his rookie deal, for example, even though he's not an absolute superstar.

Maybe all NFL teams had guys in tiers differently than media consensus, too. Just seems to me like Douglas tiers things up a little differently.

Now in this class it looks like there will probably be a tier of 11-12 guys at the top including 2-3 defenders. Douglas could get somebody in that tier, and if he doesn't I hope he can extract a little premium to move down. 

I do think whoever they draft, unless it's an offensive skill player, will largely be a depth and developmental piece this year - and they'll need to work hard in free agency to clean things up to position themselves for that. So I could see the value to wanting multiple depth pieces instead of just one. Just need to hope that top tier isn't significantly more of a sure thing than the second one.

I still think that drafting linemen is much more difficult than it used to be and pass catchers is much easier, too. So that plays into it.

This is well put, and I agree.  Douglas has never traded down in Round 1 so one could surmise that given the jets having a premium first round pick, he will use it on a player in the top 10 of his board.  Inevitably every team has at least some variation in the top 10 of how they rank players.  That being said it is completely possible the 7/8/9 th ranked player on their board is there at 10 and Douglas doesnt think anything of it and just says the value meets the draft slot.  This to me represents Douglas's approach to drafting... Trust your scouts, trust your evaluations, trust your board, draft based on perceived value and actual draft slot.  

So when looking back at AVT or Mcdonald.  To Douglas he was getting guys in the top 10-15 on his board at a draft slot that represented a value for them.   I believe someone told me they had AVT in the top 12 of their draft board and selected him at 14.  I had heard they had McDonald top 10 on their board, so to Douglas he probably felt their value based on draft slot was greater than the value of a deal that could have been offered.  

Simple terms, he's very analytical in his approach to either drafting a player, moving up, or moving back. 

This is why I would think that he will stay put at 10 and select a tackle as he will probably have one of fuaga, alt, or fashanu as top 5 on their board.  

What I am hoping is that they get an offer that allows for recouping a second round pick that can be used on another offensive weapon while still selecting a highly rated tackle in rd 1. 

Personally i believe the only way this happens is if one of the QB's starts falling and someone in the 20s gets froggy.  Then I could see the deal being at a higher value to Douglas than the player at 10. 

[derp]

13 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

This is well put, and I agree.  Douglas has never traded down in Round 1 so one could surmise that given the jets having a premium first round pick, he will use it on a player in the top 10 of his board.  Inevitably every team has at least some variation in the top 10 of how they rank players.  That being said it is completely possible the 7/8/9 th ranked player on their board is there at 10 and Douglas doesnt think anything of it and just says the value meets the draft slot.  This to me represents Douglas's approach to drafting... Trust your scouts, trust your evaluations, trust your board, draft based on perceived value and actual draft slot.  

So when looking back at AVT or Mcdonald.  To Douglas he was getting guys in the top 10-15 on his board at a draft slot that represented a value for them.   I believe someone told me they had AVT in the top 12 of their draft board and selected him at 14.  I had heard they had McDonald top 10 on their board, so to Douglas he probably felt their value based on draft slot was greater than the value of a deal that could have been offered.  

Simple terms, he's very analytical in his approach to either drafting a player, moving up, or moving back. 

This is why I would think that he will stay put at 10 and select a tackle as he will probably have one of fuaga, alt, or fashanu as top 5 on their board.  

What I am hoping is that they get an offer that allows for recouping a second round pick that can be used on another offensive weapon while still selecting a highly rated tackle in rd 1. 

Personally i believe the only way this happens is if one of the QB's starts falling and someone in the 20s gets froggy.  Then I could see the deal being at a higher value to Douglas than the player at 10. 

Jermaine Johnson was top ten on their board too, right?

At some point in the maturity process of a GM I think they have to understand a) their evaluations are not infallible and b) their evaluations will not always match with where a player goes.

Need to understand that in order to figure out how you're going to draft. I think they should probably expect a top eight player on their board will be there at ten. That's different than say, if their fourth player is there. Otherwise, where does the tier drop off, how far are they looking to go back, how big is the next tier, how different is that tier, and what's being offered. 

Honestly, they probably do look at it in tiers - they just rank guys differently than consensus. To your point I think that means that he sticks and picks. The one fly in the ointment there is that this is definitely a win now team and I think OL have a steeper learning curve than they used to. He was supposedly not as high on Broderick Jones as we were led to believe and went with a year one role player at a premium position to develop.

It's also possible that he views OT as developmental at this time, understands the need to add one in what is a strong class, but wants to add another player who can maybe make a day one impact at the same time. Plus he loves upside swings - to me that's the Guyton, Suamataia, Mims area of the tackle class. If he band aids tackle in free agency, adding one of those guys plus a second round pick maybe isn't that much different role wise at tackle than adding Fashanu alone.

[Chrebetfan80]

6 minutes ago, derp said:

Jermaine Johnson was top ten on their board too, right?

At some point in the maturity process of a GM I think they have to understand a) their evaluations are not infallible and b) their evaluations will not always match with where a player goes.

Need to understand that in order to figure out how you're going to draft. I think they should probably expect a top eight player on their board will be there at ten. That's different than say, if their fourth player is there. Otherwise, where does the tier drop off, how far are they looking to go back, how big is the next tier, how different is that tier, and what's being offered. 

Honestly, they probably do look at it in tiers - they just rank guys differently than consensus. To your point I think that means that he sticks and picks. The one fly in the ointment there is that this is definitely a win now team and I think OL have a steeper learning curve than they used to. He was supposedly not as high on Broderick Jones as we were led to believe and went with a year one role player at a premium position to develop.

It's also possible that he views OT as developmental at this time, understands the need to add one in what is a strong class, but wants to add another player who can maybe make a day one impact at the same time. Plus he loves upside swings - to me that's the Guyton, Suamataia, Mims area of the tackle class. If he band aids tackle in free agency, adding one of those guys plus a second round pick maybe isn't that much different role wise at tackle than adding Fashanu alone.

Yea JJ was i think 10 on their board, so when he fell they pounced.  Their evaluation will be different because most teams take into account coaching opinions and evaluations as well as fit in scheme.  So that would account for a good deal of the variance we see.  Hence why later in the draft we value certain DB's and LB's than other teams may.  

I do think that OT has become a bigger learning curve than it used to be but we still see plenty of guys come in and perform very well in their rookie year.  I think douglas knows that tackle is a premium line position. He needs to find at least 1 in the draft as the FA class this year for OL is fairly weak.  Adding two would put us most likely in the same predicament as we were in this year with aging vets either underperforming or getting banged up.   While 1 tackle will most likely be signed in FA to help solidify the LT spot for rodgers blind side, i think we will definitely add a first rd rookie to play the right side, and eventually perhaps take over LT.  

The bolded is what I think the internal conversations are now and will be through out the entire predraft process.  The fact that cimini even leaked out he's heard trading down is viable tells me that they have already begun to suspect that there is not a large gap between the top 2 tackles and the next 8.  While right now im predicting stick and pick, I do think in a few months we can be looking at a very realistic trade down scenario. 

 

The senior bowl will be extremely valuable for this team this year.  Almost all the top tackles that would be in play for the jets will be there, along with many of the mid round WR targets they may look at.  I dont know if ive ever seen a better collection of players that fit the jets draft slots and needs for them to scout than this.