Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 22 minutes ago, slats said: If you’re telling me JD sucks at drafting after round three, you should certainly be able to provide more than one faulty example. I say faulty, because you claimed nearly all their starters are draft picks when on defense maybe three of them are. Or are you telling me that Joe Douglas is second best? Bosa - Round 1 Greenlaw- round 5 Warner - Round 3 (all pro) Flanigan-Flowes SF UDFA Hufanga - Round 5 Brown - round 3 Lenoir - round 5 Green - round 2 8 of 11 starters via draft. Only 1 first rounder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 4 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Bosa - Round 1 Greenlaw- round 5 Warner - Round 3 (all pro) Flanigan-Flowes SF UDFA Hufanga - Round 5 Brown - round 3 Lenoir - round 5 Green - round 2 8 of 11 starters via draft. Only 1 first rounder So we’re going with Joe Douglas is second best, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 minutes ago, slats said: So we’re going with Joe Douglas is second best, then? How are you figuring that? We can do offense too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 1 minute ago, Matt39 said: How are you figuring that? We can do offense too. Not that I care much, but you and Ourlads disagree on the starting lineups. But, once again, you’re telling me that Joe Douglas is terrible at drafting after the first couple rounds, and all you have is one example of a GM you think does it better? I think if you’re making such a case, you should have 15 examples ready - and even that wouldn’t knock him out of the top half of the league. So far, you’ve got one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Just now, slats said: Not that I care much, but you and Ourlads disagree on the starting lineups. But, once again, you’re telling me that Joe Douglas is terrible at drafting after the first couple rounds, and all you have is one example of a GM you think does it better? I think if you’re making such a case, you should have 15 examples ready - and even that wouldn’t knock him out of the top half of the league. So far, you’ve got one. KC, Buff, Baltimore, Pitt, Cinci, Cleveland, Philly, Dallas, GB, Detroit, Tampa, LA Rams, SF, Seattle. There’s your 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 13 minutes ago, Matt39 said: KC, Buff, Baltimore, Pitt, Cinci, Cleveland, Philly, Dallas, GB, Detroit, Tampa, LA Rams, SF, Seattle. There’s your 15 Show your work. Show me all these late round picks making more of an impact than JDs late picks. I’m not seeing a lot of household names when I look, but you’re the expert on late round picks so I’ll defer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 3 hours ago, Matt39 said: Douglas has been bad in the draft and worse in free agency. Everything here is pretty much fanboy homerism. Just go through his drafts outside of round 1 and 2 in 2022 and try not to puke. Yeah but Kaare Vedvik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: I think in the optimistic imagination of Jets fans, Rodgers isn’t going to get sacked or hit a lot behind Tyron Smith and Morgan Moses, but Rodgers doesn’t really play in a way that avoids contact. He’d rather take a sack than throw an INT, and he’s not averse—like Brady and Manning, for example—to holding on to the ball to make a play. He also likes to roll out and be on the move. LaFleur tried to constrain him in the pocket to preserve his body and—reportedly—Rodgers didn’t love it because it limited his ability to create, even while he was winning MVPs in that system. Rodgers loves to roll out the pocket it’s a big part of his game that helps him see the field. He’s not a strict drop back qb like Tom Brady or Vinny— those guys played forever because the just did 3 step drops and stood there like statues 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 10 minutes ago, slats said: Show your work. Show me all these late round picks making more of an impact than JDs late picks. I’m not seeing a lot of household names when I look, but you’re the expert on late round picks so I’ll defer. Why do these teams make the playoffs while the Jets don’t? I don’t know if you are trolling or not here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 hours ago, FidelioJet said: I think this is fair if Rodgers is still good. Which we really don't know yet. I don’t think he will be MVP Rodgers but he can still be good. Biggest thing holding him back is we have no depth at WR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 1 minute ago, Rich Thornburgh said: Rodgers loves to roll out the pocket it’s a big part of his game that helps him see the field. He’s not a strict drop back qb like Tom Brady or Vinny— those guys played forever because the just did 3 step drops and stood there like statues Right. I looked it up and Rodgers is a career 6.5% sack rate QB, which would put him in the middle of the pack in that stat. For reference, Zach Wilson was up over ten. Josh Allen led the league in lowest sack rate at 3.8 iirc. I was listening to Derrick Klassen (who is a supernerd who does extensive QB charting), and he dispelled the idea that Old Rodgers with the NYJ is the same as Old Brady with the Bucs. Brady was a point and shoot QB who was contact averse and ran the called Bruce Arians plays to perfection. Rodgers isn’t doing any of that for Nathaniel Hackett and is going to improvise and try to extend plays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Thornburgh Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Right. I looked it up and Rodgers is a career 6.5% sack rate QB, which would put him in the middle of the pack in that stat. For reference, Zach Wilson was up over ten. Josh Allen led the league in lowest sack rate at 3.8 iirc. I was listening to Derrick Klassen (who is a supernerd who does extensive QB charting), and he dispelled the idea that Old Rodgers with the NYJ is the same as Old Brady with the Bucs. Brady was a point and shoot QB who was contact averse and ran the called Bruce Arians plays to perfection. Rodgers isn’t doing any of that for Nathaniel Hackett and is going to improvise and try to extend plays. That’s why the Achilles injury concerns me even if it’s not his plant leg for throwing. That’s also why JD signed Tyrod because he’s another guy who rolls out a lot so the offensive playbook wouldn’t have to change much if Aaron got hurt again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreened Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 10 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Why do these teams make the playoffs while the Jets don’t? I don’t know if you are trolling or not here. Because he gets a pass for drafting Zach Wilson and hiring the coach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 7 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Why do these teams make the playoffs while the Jets don’t? I don’t know if you are trolling or not here. I’m trying to keep you focused. You said JD sucks after the first couple rounds. Give me all the examples of GMs doing better, maybe by listing these late picks that are making that difference. The reason the Jets haven’t is pretty obvious. Bad QB play coupled with an insane amount of injuries on the OL. You think they won’t make the playoffs this year? I have to believe the football gods can’t be so cruel as to take Rodgers away from us again this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 minutes ago, slats said: I’m trying to keep you focused. You said JD sucks after the first couple rounds. Give me all the examples of GMs doing better, maybe by listing these late picks that are making that difference. The reason the Jets haven’t is pretty obvious. Bad QB play coupled with an insane amount of injuries on the OL. You think they won’t make the playoffs this year? I have to believe the football gods can’t be so cruel as to take Rodgers away from us again this year. I just gave you 15 teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 On 8/15/2024 at 7:51 PM, Ulrich said: Not just literally how his absence leaves a gaping hole on the d-line. Allowing teams to slide protection towards Quinnen, JJ, etc. I also think it’s a vibe situation. With Reddick starting week 1 in SF the Jets are on the right path. If not, the Jets are tempting fate. I’m an old guy and maybe I’ve done too much virtual aya like Rodgers. But Douglas’ stance towards Reddick, it’s all good until the football gods adjudge too arrogant. Boy, it didn't take long for the dumb hot takes to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 hours ago, Matt39 said: SF’s entire roster outside of McCafrey and Trent have been built via the draft. 2 hours ago, T0mShane said: Nobody has to go through Lynch‘s or Roseman’s draft histories Lynch had a 3 year run right when he was hired where his drafts were spectacular, hitting superstars in every round and that has carried their success. His last 4, have been bad to disasterous sans Purdy. Which led to them spending this offseason in FA. Leonard Floyd, DeVondre Campbell, Malik Collins, Yetur Gross-Matos, Jordan Elliot, Josh Dobbs, Rock Ya-Sin, Issac Yiadom, Bradon Parker, Chase Lucas, Chris Conley. The woes of their last few drafts are starting to hit and signing all their talent is becoming an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 18 minutes ago, Matt39 said: I just gave you 15 teams And haven’t named a single later pick by name for any of them. Nothing at all to back your claim that JD sucks compared to anyone actually doing the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradSmith16fan Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 34 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Why do these teams make the playoffs while the Jets don’t? I don’t know if you are trolling or not here. Zach Wilson is why. And let's be honest, if any other teams gm had the 2022 draft that JD did, there would be an espn 30 for 30 on it probably already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 4 minutes ago, BradSmith16fan said: Zach Wilson is why. And let's be honest, if any other teams gm had the 2022 draft that JD did, there would be an espn 30 for 30 on it probably already. How would you rate the Jets depth? Why is the oline built via free agency and Douglas is in year 6? How would you rate the Becton pick? Or Denzel Mims? Douglas has been whiffing on high picks too. It’s not random that the Jets haven’t come close to the playoffs while he’s been here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 6 minutes ago, BradSmith16fan said: Zach Wilson is why. And let's be honest, if any other teams gm had the 2022 draft that JD did, there would be an espn 30 for 30 on it probably already. If the league hit “Reset” and every GM came available, how far down the list are you going before you hire Joe Douglas? You’re probably well into the twenties at that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradSmith16fan Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 minutes ago, Matt39 said: How would you rate the Jets depth? Why is the oline built via free agency and Douglas is in year 6? How would you rate the Becton pick? Or Denzel Mims? Douglas has been whiffing on high picks too. It’s not random that the Jets haven’t come close to the playoffs while he’s been here How about kcs oline? Becton Mims and Wilson disasters. Clemons, Michael Carter II, Sherwood, Davis, Echols for a short period, and Bryce Hall all late round picks that contributed at least decently, with one bring a near all pro. Jury's out on 2023 draft this year. It's because the stubbornness on Zach I think no playoffs, plus Rodgers freak injury. Jets depth is solid except for safety which is why I was disappointed to see Simmons go to the Falcons, solid move by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 14 minutes ago, JiFtheOracle said: Lynch had a 3 year run right when he was hired where his drafts were spectacular, hitting superstars in every round and that has carried their success. His last 4, have been bad to disasterous sans Purdy. Which led to them spending this offseason in FA. Leonard Floyd, DeVondre Campbell, Malik Collins, Yetur Gross-Matos, Jordan Elliot, Josh Dobbs, Rock Ya-Sin, Issac Yiadom, Bradon Parker, Chase Lucas, Chris Conley. The woes of their last few drafts are starting to hit and signing all their talent is becoming an issue. They also lead the league in available cap room and are currently deciding whether or not to trade one of the top five receivers in football for a bunch of picks. Obviously drafting is an important piece of the GM job, but it’s not the whole enchilada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 6 minutes ago, T0mShane said: They also lead the league in available cap room and are currently deciding whether or not to trade one of the top five receivers in football for a bunch of picks. Obviously drafting is an important piece of the GM job, but it’s not the whole enchilada. They’re also currently over next year’s cap by $38M, and that’s without having settled Aiyuk or Williams, yet. That cap space will wind up evaporating very fast (the Jets have $57M in cap room available next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 4 minutes ago, slats said: They’re also currently over next year’s cap by $38M, and that’s without having settled Aiyuk or Williams, yet. That cap space will wind up evaporating very fast (the Jets have $57M in cap room available next year). Sure, but Lynch has to find that money next year while having competed for Super Bowls almost every year. Douglas in a place where he doesn’t have cap space to pay Reddick without using void years after five years of fourth place finishes. No wonder Woody is pulling the purse strings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 1 minute ago, T0mShane said: Sure, but Lynch has to find that money next year while having competed for Super Bowls almost every year. Douglas in a place where he can’t pay Reddick after five years of fourth place finishes He never wanted to pay Reddick. The plan was a one year rental for a 2026 third round pick, offset by the comp pick received when letting him walk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradSmith16fan Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 16 minutes ago, T0mShane said: If the league hit “Reset” and every GM came available, how far down the list are you going before you hire Joe Douglas? You’re probably well into the twenties at that point Upper 10s to 17. His 2022 draft was like a grand slam in a crucial spot of an alcs game. Zach, Becton, and Mims was like Beltran looking at strike 3. He tried to make up for it with Rodgers which was the right move in my mind. He should have taken Wirfs. Michael Carter II is top 3 at least slot corner in the nfl. Clemons is solid. If you told me no 2022 draft, I would agree with well into 20s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 2 minutes ago, slats said: He never wanted to pay Reddick. The plan was a one year rental for a 2026 third round pick, offset by the comp pick received when letting him walk. Regardless of what happened with Reddick, it’s not a good thing that Douglas is tight to the cap right now with the results his teams have produced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 17 hours ago, Green Ghost said: Maybe the third time will be the charm? 🤞 this is asinine...jets won 7 games with equivalent of me at QB. what's your point? jets defense hasnt been good? let them down? or was meant to win 12 games without any offense? the defense was is and will be elite... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 4 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Regardless of what happened with Reddick, it’s not a good thing that Douglas is tight to the cap right now with the results his teams have produced. If they make a Super Bowl run, it was worth it. If they don't, he is gone. That is where we are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 25 minutes ago, BradSmith16fan said: How about kcs oline? Becton Mims and Wilson disasters. Clemons, Michael Carter II, Sherwood, Davis, Echols for a short period, and Bryce Hall all late round picks that contributed at least decently, with one bring a near all pro. Jury's out on 2023 draft this year. It's because the stubbornness on Zach I think no playoffs, plus Rodgers freak injury. Jets depth is solid except for safety which is why I was disappointed to see Simmons go to the Falcons, solid move by them. Receiver, oline, and tight end have suffered because of Douglas inability to draft well. These are not good units and we are banking on Rodgers being vintage Rodgers to pick them up. Breece Hall was probably Douglas’s best pick based on draft location and production. FA receivers have been just as bad in Davis and Lazard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 10 minutes ago, BradSmith16fan said: Upper 10s to 17. His 2022 draft was like a grand slam in a crucial spot of an alcs game. Zach, Becton, and Mims was like Beltran looking at strike 3. He tried to make up for it with Rodgers which was the right move in my mind. He should have taken Wirfs. Michael Carter II is top 3 at least slot corner in the nfl. Clemons is solid. If you told me no 2022 draft, I would agree with well into 20s. Have any of Douglas’s staff members been promoted into General Manager roles? Where is Rex Hogan now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradSmith16fan Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 1 minute ago, Matt39 said: Have any of Douglas’s staff members been promoted into General Manager roles? Where is Rex Hogan now? Not saying he's the best, just saying he's not well into 20s. Albeit, I think he has a chance to get into the top echelon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradSmith16fan Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 4 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Receiver, oline, and tight end have suffered because of Douglas inability to draft well. These are not good units and we are banking on Rodgers being vintage Rodgers to pick them up. Breece Hall was probably Douglas’s best pick based on draft location and production. FA receivers have been just as bad in Davis and Lazard. Which is why I thought Rodgers was the wise move to make. Davis was OK, Lazard was horrible last year. Oline agree, but I think he did solid job this year and oline was partly on Zach holding onto the ball for too long. Disagree on TE, Conklin is very solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: If they make a Super Bowl run, it was worth it. If they don't, he is gone. That is where we are. 100%. He’s emptied the chamber to make this run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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