Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Ok, you run a MLB franchise as a GM. Here are your options: Trade for A-Rod, a player who is dynamic and achieved unprecedented numbers for his career thus far, at a salary of about 16 mill over the next 4 years, BUT give up the farm (according to Yankee fans). OR Sign Soriano, a player who is dynamic and achieved unprecedented numbers for his career thus far, at a salary around 16 mill for 6-7 years, AND give up nothing more than a draft choice in next years FA draft. Which is better serving for my club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Ok, you run a MLB franchise as a GM. Here are your options: Trade for A-Rod, a player who is dynamic and achieved unprecedented numbers for his career thus far, at a salary of about 16 mill over the next 4 years, BUT give up the farm (according to Yankee fans). OR Sign Soriano, a player who is dynamic and achieved unprecedented numbers for his career thus far, at a salary around 16 mill for 6-7 years, AND give up nothing more than a draft choice in next years FA draft. Which is better serving for my club? sort of like gettin zito as free agent as opposed to giving up milledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinlawyer Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Ok, you run a MLB franchise as a GM. Here are your options: Trade for A-Rod, a player who is dynamic and achieved unprecedented numbers for his career thus far, at a salary of about 16 mill over the next 4 years, BUT give up the farm (according to Yankee fans). OR Sign Soriano, a player who is dynamic and achieved unprecedented numbers for his career thus far, at a salary around 16 mill for 6-7 years, AND give up nothing more than a draft choice in next years FA draft. Which is better serving for my club? You go Sori..because you still pay a lot AND you keep your future in the farm for later... A-Rod's history in the postseason is a bane unless you havent been to the PS in a while...then you dont care how he does in the PS..you just want to get there. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloogy Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Both are windmills at the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Soriano had some issues of his own at the plate. Nonetheless, until Soriano starts playing 3B/SS or ARod plays LF/2B, this is a non-issue. What role do you need to fill? They play different positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Soriano had some issues of his own at the plate. Nonetheless, until Soriano starts playing 3B/SS or ARod plays LF/2B, this is a non-issue. What role do you need to fill? They play different positions. Assume that you need to fill both roles and can fill the other role with "Joe average" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Soriano since 2004: 114 OPS+, .275/.329/.519, 116 doubles, 8 triples, 110 home runs, 298 runs scored, 290 RBI, 133 walks, 406 strike outs, 89 stolen bases (24 caught) A-rod since 2004: 147 OPS+, .299/.396/.549, 79 doubles, 4 triples, 119 home runs, 349 runs scored, 357 RBI, 261 walks, 409 strike outs, 64 stolen bases (14 caught) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Soriano since 2004: 114 OPS+, .275/.329/.519, 116 doubles, 8 triples, 110 home runs, 298 runs scored, 290 RBI, 133 walks, 406 strike outs, 89 stolen bases (24 caught) A-rod since 2004: 147 OPS+, .299/.396/.549, 79 doubles, 4 triples, 119 home runs, 349 runs scored, 357 RBI, 261 walks, 409 strike outs, 64 stolen bases (14 caught) Rather than spouting stats, can you make an educated opinion? Both are unique talents, no? They both will earn about the same, no? What makes one better than the other? If it is A-Rod, does that difference make it worth sending a boat-load in exchange foir him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Rather than spouting stats, can you make an educated opinion? scott, did you really ask that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Soriano since 2004: 114 OPS+, .275/.329/.519, 116 doubles, 8 triples, 110 home runs, 298 runs scored, 290 RBI, 133 walks, 406 strike outs, 89 stolen bases (24 caught) A-rod since 2004: 147 OPS+, .299/.396/.549, 79 doubles, 4 triples, 119 home runs, 349 runs scored, 357 RBI, 261 walks, 409 strike outs, 64 stolen bases (14 caught) The 2 numbers that surprise me about Sori is that he only had 45 walks a year (133/3) and he only had 89 SBs in 3 years. I guess he is running less these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yankee fans weren't happy with Sori when he was here(suprise:rolleyes: ) so I don't know why they would want him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 The 2 numbers that surprise me about Sori is that he only had 45 walks a year (133/3) and he only had 89 SBs in 3 years. I guess he is running less these days. He was 40-40 this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 The 2 numbers that surprise me about Sori is that he only had 45 walks a year (133/3) and he only had 89 SBs in 3 years. I guess he is running less these days. I think the stats that Blackout provided are wrong, too. Or, they do not include '06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloogy Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yankee fans weren't happy with Sori when he was here(suprise:rolleyes: ) so I don't know why they would want him back. I hate to break it to ya, but I don't want him or Krod in pinstripes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Arod will be getting paid 64 mill over the next 6 years from the Yankees. That will be the same once they trade him, if or when. So its 6/64 for Arod Soriano will get ALOT more than that. Alot more. He's already rejected an offer from the nats that would pay him 70 mill over 5 years! And Arod is a SS or 3rd baseman. You dont see more than 3 guys at either position that can put up Arods numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 And Soriano is going to want to play 2nd Base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon88 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I believe KROD is 4 more years for 64 million, (not 6 years for 64), which is 16 million a year. Gotta figure that is around where Soriano will cash in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have a feeling Omar lands Sori at 2B and keeps Valentine around as a 4th OF, extra Infielder. I also thinks he presses hard on signing Zito after having Oswalt all but wrapped up at the trade deadline b4 the Orioles backed out of the 3-way deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Arod will be getting paid 64 mill over the next 6 years from the Yankees. That will be the same once they trade him, if or when. So its 6/64 for Arod Soriano will get ALOT more than that. Alot more. He's already rejected an offer from the nats that would pay him 70 mill over 5 years! And Arod is a SS or 3rd baseman. You dont see more than 3 guys at either position that can put up Arods numbers. Barton-You get an F on this assignment. Wrong facts and didn't follow instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon88 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have a feeling Omar lands Sori at 2B and keeps Valentine around as a 4th OF, extra Infielder. I also thinks he presses hard on signing Zito after having Oswalt all but wrapped up at the trade deadline b4 the Orioles backed out of the 3-way deal. not sure they go after BOTH Zito and Soriano. If they go after Zito, I'd go get DeRosa for 2B, he is a FA and can be had for about 800K-$1 million. 32 years old, can play anywhere if needed. Need a righty bat in LF as well, hmmmm, Manny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Barton-You get an F on this assignment. Wrong facts and didn't follow instructions. It is 4 years not 6 for Arod ok, I was saying "correct me if I am wrong". But Soriano will probably be paid just as much as Arod. Everything else was spot on. 99% of SS and 3rd baseman do not put up Arods numbers, there is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It is 4 years not 6 for Arod ok, I was saying "correct me if I am wrong". But Soriano will probably be paid just as much as Arod. Everything else was spot on. 99% of SS and 3rd baseman do not put up Arods numbers, there is no comparison. Why do Yankee fans want to trade him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 It is 4 years not 6 for Arod ok, I was saying "correct me if I am wrong". But Soriano will probably be paid just as much as Arod. Everything else was spot on. 99% of SS and 3rd baseman do not put up Arods numbers, there is no comparison. Another F for not following instructions. I said later to assume that you need BOTH positions, and can sign "Joe average" for the other position. What do you do? Did David Wright put up A-Rod's numbers this year? Did Aramis Ramirez? MIGuel Cabrera? Garrett Atkins? That is just in teh NL. Define 99% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Rather than spouting stats, can you make an educated opinion? Both are unique talents, no? They both will earn about the same, no? What makes one better than the other? If it is A-Rod, does that difference make it worth sending a boat-load in exchange foir him? arod gets on base alot more and scores alot more runs despite not being able to bat leadoff like alfonso did last year plus a-rods defense at 3rd base in the last 3 years is nowhere near as bad as the mix of Soriano's awful 2 defensive years at 2nd base and one below average year as a left fielder soriano's a great player, but why the hell would you waste the time making such a crazy thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 arod gets on base alot more and scores alot more runs despite not being able to bat leadoff like alfonso did last year plus a-rods defense at 3rd base in the last 3 years is nowhere near as bad as the mix of Soriano's awful 2 defensive years at 2nd base and one below average year as a left fielder soriano's a great player, but why the hell would you waste the time making such a crazy thread? Why are you afraid of answering the question? Blackout? How had the most errors at 3rd base this year? Who led the ML in assists for OFers by a wide margin? A player can't help who drives him in? Are you going to tell me the Nats had as good a line-up as the Yankees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Why are you afraid of answering the question? Blackout? How had the most errors at 3rd base this year? Who led the ML in assists for OFers by a wide margin? A player can't help who drives him in? Are you going to tell me the Nats had as good a line-up as the Yankees? Thank you....Blackout you need to bow out gracefullly on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Another F for not following instructions. I said later to assume that you need BOTH positions, and can sign "Joe average" for the other position. What do you do? Did David Wright put up A-Rod's numbers this year? Did Aramis Ramirez? MIGuel Cabrera? Garrett Atkins? That is just in teh NL. Define 99% Are Cabrera, Wright and Atkins available to trade? How many of these guys have Arods track record? Cabrera perhaps. But the rest do not, and please dont kid yourselves that it doesnt play into the mind of GMs. Arod is the safest bet you can get in a trade or free agency, thats a big selling point..... For the record, I think most likely that Arod moves to a team that wants him to play SS, unless its the Dodgers. Joe Average at corner OF spot > Joe Average at 3rd base or SS On average, an average corner OFer will put up much better numbers than your average SS or 3rd baseman. There's a reason why there are so many very good to great corner OFers every year, but very few great producers at 3rd or SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Are Cabrera, Wright and Atkins available to trade? How many of these guys have Arods track record? Cabrera perhaps. But the rest do not, and please dont kid yourselves that it doesnt play into the mind of GMs. Arod is the safest bet you can get in a trade or free agency, thats a big selling point..... For the record, I think most likely that Arod moves to a team that wants him to play SS, unless its the Dodgers. Joe Average at corner OF spot > Joe Average at 3rd base or SS On average, an average corner OFer will put up much better numbers than your average SS or 3rd baseman. There's a reason why there are so many very good to great corner OFers every year, but very few great producers at 3rd or SS. So, you are saying it is better to spend 16 mill a year on Arod, rather than Soriano, PLUS trade a King's ransom to the Yankees in exchange? Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Why do Yankee fans want to trade him? I cant speak for all of them....some have different reasons. But myself.... I'd trade him if the deal is right because I think he is very bad for chemistry and if we can set up the pitching staff for the future as well as the 3rd base spot in dealing Arod, its a no brainer considering he is a bad fit in New York esp at 3rd base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 So, you are saying it is better to spend 16 mill a year on Arod, rather than Soriano, PLUS trade a King's ransom to the Yankees in exchange? Wow! WOW yourself. Do Arod and Soriano play the same position? You seem to overlook this key point..... If you're building a team from scratch, Soriano is a no brainer because he only costs FA money and a 1st rd pick. The teams that are looking to trade for Arod probably arent looking at Soriano, and even if they are, they can get both. Hypothetical. You are the Angels. You have a hole at SS and LF. You have a deep farm system. I see it to be much smarter to sign a 2nd tier LFer like say Catanotto, and trade for Arod, than sign Soriano (a slight risk in there) and sign Rich Aurilia or some other joe average producing type SS (I know Aurilia is a 3rd baseman now but I'm just using him as an example). It all depends on what kind of team you are. If you are looking to rebuild, then you go with Soriano and keep your prospects. I find it hilarious that you think nobody will give up anything of value to Arod because he "holds the cards". He holds absolutely nothing, and his NTC is worthless once the Yankee organization tells him "We want you gone, and we are looking to trade you" You think Arod will want to stay in a place like that? Especially when he has the media attackin his every little step around the city? Think again. NYC isnt so glamorous for Arod right now, on the baseball field or in the tabloids. Would you stay at your job if the management have told you to get the hell out and your coworkers are harassing you every day, when you can move out west, get paid the same money and not have to deal with the pressures? I think I'd take the latter. *I am done beating this subject to death for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 and other teams are always wanting to add "bad chemistry" to their lockerrooms and want to overspend to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Assume that you need to fill both roles and can fill the other role with "Joe average" This is a stupid scenario. I'd take whichever I could get. Chances are that you CAN'T get both of them. If I have a trade-match for ARod, I take him. If I can get to the top of Soriano's list as a FA, I take him. ARod is a better hitter when he's not in NY by FAR -- so maybe I'd pursue him a little harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 WOW yourself. You think Arod will want to stay in a place like that? Especially when he has the media attackin his every little step around the city? Think again. NYC isnt so glamorous for Arod right now, on the baseball field or in the tabloids. Yeah, that approach will give the Yanks max leverage in bargaining a trade. That is brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 and other teams are always wanting to add "bad chemistry" to their lockerrooms and want to overspend to get it. All clubhouses have the exact same set of players and will share the same views on Arod. If you NEED a SS, who the hell you gonna get out there? Answer this question. Arod is the best SS available. If you need a producer at SS, Arod is the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 and other teams are always wanting to add "bad chemistry" to their lockerrooms and want to overspend to get it. Only one player in pro-sports is Bad Chemistry no-matter where he goes: TO. ARod could be GREAT for chemistry in someone else's locker room, but Jeter created a negative environment for him in NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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