LionelRichie Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 all the talk of chadwick's limitations got me thinking about the pats super bowl wins. how many would they have won w/o brady? for all the talk of how great a coach BB is, at the end of the day would the pats have even won 1 SB without brady? can the jets ever win one without a premier qb? if they can't, then it certainly makes sense to find someone who can win it all sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alk Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 You are way off. It had nothing to do with Belichick or Brady. You know what all of those teams had in common? Ken Walter!! That's right, it's no coincidence that we haven't made it to a Super Bowl since cutting him. Bad news though Jets fans, you know who our punter is now? That's right, KEN WALTER BABY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 History has shown Romeo/Weiss were the key ingredients. Pats 6-10 against winning teams since their departure......hardly the stuff of SB talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 all the talk of chadwick's limitations got me thinking about the pats super bowl wins. how many would they have won w/o brady? for all the talk of how great a coach BB is, at the end of the day would the pats have even won 1 SB without brady? can the jets ever win one without a premier qb? if they can't, then it certainly makes sense to find someone who can win it all sooner rather than later. Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm in the belief that Belichick made Brady rather than the other way around.The pats defense was 6th,1st and 2nd overall in points allowed in the years they won the superbowl.And Brady was pretty much playing the part of Roethlisberger in their 1st superbowl win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I was thinking about the Pats Super Bowls. And how with each passing day they become a distant memory. 2007 is just days away. Wouldn't it be embarassing to have a signature like this 2005 Dynasty Lane? Holy Meatloaf -- it was long ago, it was far away. It was so much better than it is today. I mean at that point lets just talk about SB III like it happened last weekend. Talk about not seeing things for what they really are, these Pats fans are too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm in the belief that Belichick made Brady rather than the other way around.The pats defense was 6th,1st and 2nd overall in points allowed in the years they won the superbowl.And Brady was pretty much playing the part of Roethlisberger in their 1st superbowl win. So did Walsh make Montana? After all their Ds were 2, 23, 4, 1, 2, 3, 3, 8, 3 and 2 during their time together. That people get trapped into thinking one act/person makes a dynasty is amazing. Bill Walsh and Belichick might be the smartest offensive and defensive coaches of their generation, but they also had the good fortune of seeing a 3rd and 6th round draft pick turn into the greatest QBs of their respective generations. There are seceral other exmaples of this theme happening on both teams. I understand what you are saying about Brady's first Superbowl. However, Big Ben did virtually nothing. Parker, Randle-el and the refs had a far geater impact on the game ythen Big Ben whose stats look like he lost the game as oppossed to win it. Brady was not asked to do much, but he did have to step up a few times and he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 So did Walsh make Montana? After all their Ds were 2, 23, 4, 1, 2, 3, 3, 8, 3 and 2 during their time together. That people get trapped into thinking one act/person makes a dynasty is amazing. Bill Walsh and Belichick might be the smartest offensive and defensive coaches of their generation, but they also had the good fortune of seeing a 3rd and 6th round draft pick turn into the greatest QBs of their respective generations. There are seceral other exmaples of this theme happening on both teams. I understand what you are saying about Brady's first Superbowl. However, Big Ben did virtually nothing. Parker, Randle-el and the refs had a far geater impact on the game ythen Big Ben whose stats look like he lost the game as oppossed to win it. Brady was not asked to do much, but he did have to step up a few times and he did. I've never seen the Montana play so I can't really comment on him,but the stats do suggest that the 49ers had a great team and that Montana may get too much of the credit. I believe that the core of what makes/made the pats great was the defense that Belichick built and not Brady.Pretty much every QB and top flight offense that met the pats D went away with their tails between their legs.Brady's a smart player,he'll take care of the ball and will make some plays,but i believe the pats defense put him in the position to make those plays.I think 17 of the 20 points the pats scored in that superbowl with st louis came off of turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm in the belief that Belichick made Brady rather than the other way around.The pats defense was 6th,1st and 2nd overall in points allowed in the years they won the superbowl.And Brady was pretty much playing the part of Roethlisberger in their 1st superbowl win. Super Bowl #1 against the Rams: Brady gets the ball on the Pats 18 yard line with 1:11 left and no timeouts. Hits 4 straight passes, but more importantly, avoided 2 sacks because of his pocket presence, and gets the Pats in FG range. Super Bowl #2 against the Panthers: Sets a Super Bowl record for 32 completions, throws for 354 yards and 3 TD's. Enough said. Super Bowl #3 against the Eagles: 23 for 33 for 236 yards and 2 TD's. Four completions on 3rd down for 1st downs during Pats 2 long drives. Yea, those 3 performances were just like what Big Ben did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Super Bowl #1 against the Rams: Brady gets the ball on the Pats 18 yard line with 1:11 left and no timeouts. Hits 4 straight passes, but more importantly, avoided 2 sacks because of his pocket presence, and gets the Pats in FG range. Super Bowl #2 against the Panthers: Sets a Super Bowl record for 32 completions, throws for 354 yards and 3 TD's. Enough said. Super Bowl #3 against the Eagles: 23 for 33 for 236 yards and 2 TD's. Four completions on 3rd down for 1st downs during Pats 2 long drives. Yea, those 3 performances were just like what Big Ben did last year. It's a long time ago so i could well be off,but i believe of the 4 passes against the rams two were screens(which explains the near sacks) and one was a slant.Only one pass was thrown more than 5 yards down the field iirc.This was all against a prevent defense as well,Brady didan excellent job of taking what he was given,but i'd expect a good few QBs to be able to produce the same results in those circumstances. I don't know why you are mentioning the other two superbowls,i was talking about Brady in their 1st superbowl win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 It's a long time ago so i could well be off,but i believe of the 4 passes against the rams two were screens(which explains the near sacks) and one was a slant.Only one pass was thrown more than 5 yards down the field iirc.This was all against a prevent defense as well,Brady didan excellent job of taking what he was given,but i'd expect a good few QBs to be able to produce the same results in those circumstances. So let me understand this. Because Brady didn't throw the ball downfield (against the Rams prevent defense), use the middle of the field (with no timeouts) and take them in for a TD instead of just a FG, it wasn't that big of an accomplishment and you expect that a "few good QB's" could have done the same thing? You clowns are hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenandWhite Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 All Pats fans have these days are memories of those Super Bowls during their Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 The Mangini loss was the last straw. Yep, anytime you lose a DC who the HC takes away play-calling responsibilities from, it is a devasting loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenandWhite Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Well, I seem to remember Belichick and Mangini congratulating each other over the playoff win against the Jaguars, so I imagine Mangini had to do something with that. In any event, we’re very glad to take Mangini off your hands and not be a part of the Pats’ coaching staff anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 So let me understand this. Because Brady didn't throw the ball downfield (against the Rams prevent defense), use the middle of the field (with no timeouts) and take them in for a TD instead of just a FG, it wasn't that big of an accomplishment and you expect that a "few good QB's" could have done the same thing? You clowns are hilarious. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.Are you saying that i was saying that Brady should of scored a TD on that drive?The rams defended that situation very poorly,they gave the pats room underneath which they exploited.Brady managed it very well but in the end throwing two screen passes and a slant is a thing most QB's can do,would you not agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.Are you saying that i was saying that Brady should of scored a TD on that drive?The rams defended that situation very poorly,they gave the pats room underneath which they exploited.Brady managed it very well but in the end throwing two screen passes and a slant is a thing most QB's can do,would you not agree? Here is the play sequence of that final drive. Brady was 5/6, including completions 23 and 16 yards. Also, the 3 short passes to JR Redman were safety valve passes, and not designed screen plays. BTW, the last completion to JR Redman was the play of the game in my opinion. He broke several tackles, picked up a 1st down and also got out of bounds to stop the clock. Operating without any timeouts, Brady completed three short passes to J.R. Redmond to reach the Patriots' 41 with 33 seconds left. After an imcompletion, Brady completed 23- and 16-yard passes to Troy Brown and Jermaine Wiggins, respectively, to reach the Rams' 30, and then spiked the ball with seven seconds remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Here is the play sequence of that final drive. Brady was 5/6, including completions 23 and 16 yards. Also, the 3 short passes to JR Redman were safety valve passes, and not designed screen plays. BTW, the last completion to JR Redman was the play of the game in my opinion. He broke several tackles, picked up a 1st down and also got out of bounds to stop the clock. Operating without any timeouts, Brady completed three short passes to J.R. Redmond to reach the Patriots' 41 with 33 seconds left. After an imcompletion, Brady completed 23- and 16-yard passes to Troy Brown and Jermaine Wiggins, respectively, to reach the Rams' 30, and then spiked the ball with seven seconds remaining. I think the one to Wiggins was on a slant route in front of the coverage.The one to Brown was a nice throw on a cutback iirc,good thrown ball in between the coverage. What i was originally trying to get at though was i believe the pats D played a bigger part to the pats success than Brady.In that game Brady threw for less than 150 yards while the defense scored a turnover,got a turnover deep in rams territory which set up a TD and had another turnover that set up a field goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 What i was originally trying to get at though was i believe the pats D played a bigger part to the pats success than Brady. I totally agree with you 10. The Pats defense came up huge in that game. The Pats DB's physically dominated the Rams WR's all game. They smashed them everytime coming off the LOS and did not allow them to get into their patterns quickly, thus disrupting their timing. I'm convinced, that the 5-yard rule change in 2002, was a direct result of how the Pats played in that Super Bowl game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I wish we had 3 superbowls in 4 years.... I dont understand why people are trying to take away from Brady and the Pats about the SB win... sure without Vinatari they don't make it/win it but the same can be said about Brady... I give them all the credit in the world for it, and Brady played like a superbowl QB that carried his offense.... All of this coming from someone who hates the patriots... Ok give me a min... I need to go now... I hate defending the pats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I wish we had 3 superbowls in 4 years.... I dont understand why people are trying to take away from Brady and the Pats about the SB win... sure without Vinatari they don't make it/win it but the same can be said about Brady... I give them all the credit in the world for it, and Brady played like a superbowl QB that carried his offense.... All of this coming from someone who hates the patriots... Ok give me a min... I need to go now... I hate defending the pats... Who stole ecurb's computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'm convinced, that the 5-yard rule change in 2002, was a direct result of how the Pats played in that Super Bowl game. Pats definitely played a big part in that 5 yard rule. All those games where they owned the Colts were basically because the Colts recievers were gettin mauled and couldnt get into their routes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Who stole ecurb's computer? Long week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 All Pats fans have these days are memories of those Super Bowls during their Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.