The Official Discuss The Debate (BZ-TX) Thread

[shawn306]

Nor do you have any to say they will be better.

Mangini has done a great job. However, how does that translate to 2007?

The offense and defense are still in the bottom of the league. SMoke and mirrors only works so long.

If he drafts the way he did this year they should be better 07.

Maybe it is.

Are you going to sit an tell me that with the salary cap room the Jets have coming to them and another productive draft that the Jets can't overtake the Pats 07.

I know the schedule is going to be alot tougher. Alot tougher for ALL of us.

the Jets still need to fill a big hole at RB, and DL. If they get a CB to replace Barrett, and another piece on the OL they WILL overtake the Pats.

Pats have to look at WR and I think you have to start looking the LB's who are getting older and the secondary which is banged up every year.

JMO but right now I like the Jets future in 07 better than the Pats.

[Garb]

Right... and the FACT that Tx hasn't come up with one valid point (other than "Chad is not our future") has NOTHING to do with why we all think BZ has this discussion won hands down has NOTHING to do with it?

I thought the debate is about the Jets achiveing "greatness" in 2007 - not sure what "greatness" means. I need an explanation by Max...

Anyway, TX is saying that Chad is not great. I agree. Anyone would agree. He's decent. Will decent translate to greatness? TX says "no." Get it???

Anyway, you want "facts?" I'll give you facts. The fact is that the Pats and Jets have played almost the same schedule in 2006 - this schedule included some dud teams. The Pats are at 10 wins. The Jets are at 8. So, who is better? Another fact: Tom Brady is a proven comodity. Chad not so much. Another fact: The Pats usually stop the opposing teams run game. The Jets usually do not. Here's a happy fact for Jets fans: The Jets actually have two legitimate recivers. The Pats do not.

[Smizzy]

I'm looking to have points deducted because he's freakin' cheating.

You have a better chance of turtles flying out of your ass.

[Smizzy]

Anyway, you want "facts?" I'll give you facts. The fact is that the Pats and Jets have played almost the same schedule - this schedule included some dud teams. The Pats are at 10 wins. The Jets are at 8. So, who is better?

Who is suppose to be rebuiliding and who is suppose to be a Dynasty?

[16G-MONEY]

What is 6-18? His cack size?

I think we all agree the schedule is going to be tougher.

BZ seems to think that the Jets 4 to at least 8 wins will matriculate into 2007. How?

BZ seems to think they will nail it again on draft picks. How? Your late first round pick could be a hit or it could suck?

So you don't think Mangini is heading the Jets in the right direction? You don't think that they are better this year than you thought? I agree that the schedule will be tougher next year... that seems not to be arguable, but I think that the Jets, with the exception of Chad, ARE getting better and better every week. Chad's still a crap shoot week to week. I'm not sure if that's because it takes that twice reconstructed shoulder TWO weeks to recover from each game or what, but clearly he's no consistent QB and he is not the future of the Jets (IMHO). You have to admit, though, that the TEAM is better than any of us expected and, after a year in the new system it CAN only get better as they get more comfortable. That's just common sense.

[PFSIKH]

If he drafts the way he did this year they should be better 07.

Maybe it is.

Are you going to sit an tell me that with the salary cap room the Jets have coming to them and another productive draft that the Jets can't overtake the Pats 07.

I know the schedule is going to be alot tougher. Alot tougher for ALL of us.

the Jets still need to fill a big hole at RB, and DL. If they get a CB to replace Barrett, and another piece on the OL they WILL overtake the Pats.

Pats have to look at WR and I think you have to start looking the LB's who are getting older and the secondary which is banged up every year.

JMO but right now I like the Jets future in 07 better than the Pats.

Again....IF.

Do not bank on the salary cap room. The Patriots have about 28-30 million and if I am not mistaken.......they were 4th or 8th in projected space available. Which means there are a few teams with some cha-ching to spend.

Shawn I get your point and agree to a point. The Jets are moving in the right direction and Mangini is as good as people thought he could be. However, no one is oging to take them for granted next year. Plus, it is a ballo cracking schedule. All the AFC East teams are going to have to be good from the get go.

[16G-MONEY]

I thought the debate is about the Jets achiveing "greatness" in 2007 - not sure what "greatness" means. I need an explanation by Max...

Anyway, TX is saying that Chad is not great. I agree. Anyone would agree. He's decent. Will decent translate to greatness? TX says "no." Get it???

Anyway, you want "facts?" I'll give you facts. The fact is that the Pats and Jets have played almost the same schedule in 2006 - this schedule included some dud teams. The Pats are at 10 wins. The Jets are at 8. So, who is better? Another fact: Tom Brady is a proven comodity. Chad not so much. Another fact: The Pats usually stop the opposing teams run game. The Jets usually do not. Here's a happy fact for Jets fans: The Jets actually have two legitimate recivers. The Pats do not.

I thought the same thing when I read the initial post... only one thing in my eyes determines greatness and I don't see that happening yet.

I agree with you on Chad... no argument here. Tx's REASONING for disliking Chad as a QB, however has been more based on "I LOVE BRADY AND HATE CHAD JUST CUZ" then on anything really substantial. Chad was a commodity BEFORE his FIRST surgery... or so it seemed, anyway... we'll never actually know for sure. Brady's shoulder is a concern to the Pats... it's why Vinny was signed. Brady's only backup is someone without any college let alone NFL experience. We'll see how that effects the pats' future.

The Jets HAVE improved the run defense although they still have a long way to go to be leaders in the category.

The Jets recieving core I can't say enough about... the Pats simply do not have that.

[Smizzy]

These very same pats fans have admitted all yr long that Mangini has tunred the Jetsaround and put them on the right track. Now because its a debate they all want to pretend they never said it and the future is a blank slate for the Jets. It could go either way. ANY IDIOT can look at the Jets last yr and this yr and see the differences. It doesn't take a homer view to see Tangini have this team headed in the right direction and if this season is or can be an indication of the future,we are in good hands.

Case closed. Anybody who debates that needs a swift kick in the teeth.

[Alk]

You have a better chance of turtles flying out of your ass.

Yeah, I know, like I said when this whole thing began, the "other" fans don't have a snowball's chance in hell with the hometown judges. By the way, as jetgirl would say. "You have a better chance at seeing god."

[PatsFanTX]

Tx's REASONING for disliking Chad as a QB, however has been more based on "I LOVE BRADY AND HATE CHAD JUST CUZ" then on anything really substantial.

Chad was a commodity BEFORE his FIRST surgery... or so it seemed, anyway...

Really, of all the Pats fans who post here, I am far more critical of Brady when he lays an egg than my colleagues. And I don't "dislike" PennyBoy. He is no where near the QB that you guys think he is.

PennyBoy was never a commodity.

The word you are looking for is "fluke".

[PFSIKH]

These very same pats fans have admitted all yr long that Mangini has tunred the Jetsaround and put them on the right track. Now because its a debate they all want to pretend they never said it and the future is a blank slate for the Jets. It could go either way. ANY IDIOT can look at the Jets last yr and this yr and see the differences. It doesn't take a homer view to see Tangini have this team headed in the right direction and if this season is or can be an indication of the future,we are in good hands.

Case closed. Anybody who debates that needs a swift kick in the teeth.

Maybe it is the definition of greatness?

Jets are going in the right direction, but greatness in 2007? Magic 8 ball says unlikely.

[Smizzy]

Yeah, I know, like I said when this whole thing began, the "other" fans don't have a snowball's chance in hell with the hometown judges. By the way, as jetgirl would say. "You have a better chance at seeing god."

I just ment how ever the debate is scored it will not be influenced by a poster in another thread. But I really did enjoy the JetGirl compairson.

[Garb]

Who is suppose to be rebuiliding and who is suppose to be a Dynasty?

Good point, kind of. What is a Dynasty? A team that continuously makes the playoff's and has won three SB's in five (going on six)? Lets say the Pats make the playoff's and win one game and lose the next. Are they no longer a dynasty? I need clarification on the whole dynasty thing. Jets have done a fantastic job this year. Kudos. Mangini is a master at the smoke and mirror effect - he invented it in NE. The Jest have also been quite healthy this year. Crucial. The Jets shoudl be better next year, but great? And please explain why the Pats should be worse? The d-line is young and fierce. LB is good - old, but good. DB position is about even if you ask me. Wide out should be addressed in the off season (with plenty of ftime to do so). QB is all set Maroney is the future.

[Alk]

I just ment how ever the debate is scored it will not be influenced by a poster in another thread. But I really did enjoy the JetGirl compairson.

She would always say $hit like I would have a better chance at seeing god than hooking up with her which I found funny because I never even suggested it.

[Garb]

She would always say $hit like I would have a better chance at seeing god than hooking up with her which I found funny because I never even suggested it. Even funnier is if I were meeting god, that would mean I was dead and I am absolutely certain that I would rather die than hook up with jetgirl.

Ah, the "good 'ole days" where delusional psychosis reigned!

[16G-MONEY]

Really, of all the Pats fans who post here, I am far more critical of Brady when he lays an egg than my colleagues. And I don't "dislike" PennyBoy. He is no where near the QB that you guys think he is.

PennyBoy was never a commodity.

The word you are looking for is "fluke".

mm hm right... Garb called Chad "decent". That word would be a HUGE stretch for you when talking about Chad. Chad was not a fluke. He was very promising. He never had an amazing arm, but he IS very smart and he was VERY accurate... then came the injuries and surgeries and, while he could have been a great QB with his smarts and accuracy he seems only to HAVE the smarts after the surgeries. He's lost the accuracy he once had and with it any endurance he seemed to have. He is NOT reliable any more I am sad to say. At least I can admit both the good and bad about Chad. You seem only to be able to say, "CHAD SUCKS! BRADY IS GOD!" See the difference? Objectivity versus blindness?

[PatsFanTX]

You seem only to be able to say, "CHAD SUCKS! BRADY IS GOD!" See the difference? Objectivity versus blindness?

Brady is 17-7 versus top 10 defensive teams, PennyBoy is 6-18.

Brady is 10-1 in the Playoffs with 3 Super Bowl rings, PennyBoy is 2-2 and has never gotten past a division playoff round.

This year, Brady has thrown far more TD passes than INT's while PennyBoy has thrown more INT's than TD passes.

Do YOU see the difference?

[Maxman]

Brady is 17-7 versus top 10 defensive teams, PennyBoy is 6-18.

Brady is 10-1 in the Playoffs with 3 Super Bowl rings, PennyBoy is 2-2 and has never gotten past a division playoff round.

This year, Brady has thrown far more TD passes than INT's while PennyBoy has thrown more INT's than TD passes.

Do YOU see the difference?

How many games has Brady won with Herman Edwards as his head coach and Paul Hackett as his O\C?

[16G-MONEY]

Brady is 17-7 versus top 10 defensive teams, PennyBoy is 6-18.

Brady is 10-1 in the Playoffs with 3 Super Bowl rings, PennyBoy is 2-2 and has never gotten past a division playoff round.

This year, Brady has thrown far more TD passes than INT's while PennyBoy has thrown more INT's than TD passes.

Do YOU see the difference?

Oh I see the difference... but I'm not a Chad fan. The surgeries did him in. Clearly YOU didn't understand that because you didn't read that far into my posts. Typical.

[PatsFanTX]

Oh I see the difference... but I'm not a Chad fan. The surgeries did him in. Clearly YOU didn't understand that because you didn't read that far into my posts. Typical.

If that is true, then why do the Jets continue to put damaged goods on the football field?

Didn't the Jets draft a QB in the 2nd round as their future?

[16G-MONEY]

If that is true, then why do the Jets continue to put damaged goods on the football field?

Didn't the Jets draft a QB in the 2nd round as their future?

Chad actually looked great early on in the season. I was pleasantly surprised. I think a LOT of us were. He has not consistently shown up each week, however. He looks fatigued at times and is not accurate. Then there are games such as this past Sunday that shuts us all up (well, those of us that feel like I do). The problem is that you can't put someone like that on the field every week if you know he'll only show up SOME of the time. It's not his fault... I just don't think he's fully recovered from the surgeries. Just my opinion. I'm no doctor.

[16G-MONEY]

Brady is 17-7 versus top 10 defensive teams, PennyBoy is 6-18.

Brady is 10-1 in the Playoffs with 3 Super Bowl rings, PennyBoy is 2-2 and has never gotten past a division playoff round.

This year, Brady has thrown far more TD passes than INT's while PennyBoy has thrown more INT's than TD passes.

Do YOU see the difference?

PS - football is a TEAM sport.

Pennington is no more completely responsible for the Jets' record than Brady is for the Patriots... just ask Adam Vinatieri... he's won more games for the pats then I think anyone gives him credit for.

[PatsFanTX]

just ask Adam Vinatieri... he's won more games for the pats then I think anyone gives him credit for.

Really? What else do they pay kickers for other than kicking the ball through those yellow thingys?

[PatsFanTX]

1). The problem is that you can't put someone like that on the field every week if you know he'll only show up SOME of the time.

2). It's not his fault...

1). I totally agree with you on that statement.

2). Nothing is ever PennyBoy's fault. How come when he has a game against the Vikings on Sunday, no one brings up his injuries. But when he lays an egg against the Bears, Colts or Bills, the injury trump card is always played? You can't have it both ways.

[#27TheDominator]

I can't believe this "debate" has gone 40 posts and nobody has said "Jane, you ignorant slut" yet.

[ladyJET2280]

This debate has been going on since yesterday..give it up! lol

[Alk]

LOUD NOISES!!!

[16G-MONEY]

1). I totally agree with you on that statement.

2). Nothing is ever PennyBoy's fault. How come when he has a game against the Vikings on Sunday, no one brings up his injuries. But when he lays an egg against the Bears, Colts or Bills, the injury trump card is always played? You can't have it both ways.

jackass... I agreed with you. He's injured. He's not what he was. I told you he showed up this week and once again shut me up. I don't know HOW he has games like this weekend. It's the inconsistency that I can't take.

Chad played well, btw, against Indy... 74% completion with 207 yards passing. Yes is got sacked. Yes, he threw an INT, but i don't call that game "laying an egg." I felt better about the Jets' performance after the Indy loss than I did after the Miami win. Sorry, those are facts. What was I thinking?

[Smizzy]

Good point, kind of. What is a Dynasty? A team that continuously makes the playoffs and has won three SB's in five (going on six)? Lets say the Pats make the playoff's and win one game and lose the next. Are they no longer a dynasty? I need clarification on the whole dynasty thing.

I don't know either. You will have to ask your fellow Patriot fans who gave them the title. Or you can Ask Fat Peter King but you might have to wait till he is done slurping down Chili Cheese dogs to get an answer.

If they are still a Dynasty and the Jets are on their heels and took a game this yr. We deserve more credit.

If they aren't a Dynasty anymore than that is something you as Pats fans need to deal,process and then admit.

[16G-MONEY]

I don't know either. You will have to ask your fellow Patriot fans who gave them the title. Or you can Ask Fat Peter King but you might have to wait till he is done slurping down Chili Cheese dogs to get an answer.

If they are still a Dynasty and the Jets are on their heels and took a game this yr. We deserve more credit.

If they aren't a Dynasty anymore than that is something you as Pats fans need to deal,process and then admit.

I don't think it's arguable that the Pats once WERE a dynasty (although we do need to clarify exactly what that means). However, they are NOT the dominant team they once were which is why IMHO they are no longer a dynasty. Those years are over. We couldn't compete with the dynasty for one reason or another (cough Herm cough Hackett cough plenty of other reasons) but we have competed successfully this year with a rookie HC against the Pats. It's still a great win. Do the Pats have a chance in hell of winning another Superbowl in the next few years? Not the way I see it... not a chance... they'll be watching the Jets win won first. Yes, that's an opinion, but the jets DO seem to be moving in the opposite direction, developmentally, then the Pats. It doesn't matter what Patsies will ADMIT...

[BP]

1). I totally agree with you on that statement.

2). Nothing is ever PennyBoy's fault. How come when he has a game against the Vikings on Sunday, no one brings up his injuries. But when he lays an egg against the Bears, Colts or Bills, the injury trump card is always played? You can't have it both ways.

BZ is the Deer..TX is the hunter

[PatsFanTX]

BZ is the Deer..TX is the hunter

I thought the deer was PennyBoy and the hunter was a top 10 defense.

[Garb]

I don't know either. You will have to ask your fellow Patriot fans who gave them the title. Or you can Ask Fat Peter King but you might have to wait till he is done slurping down Chili Cheese dogs to get an answer.

If they are still a Dynasty and the Jets are on their heels and took a game this yr. We deserve more credit.

If they aren't a Dynasty anymore than that is something you as Pats fans need to deal,process and then admit.

Hmmm....Dynasty.....

So, would you say the 49ers of the 80's were a Dynasty? If so: '80 -montana and the "dynasty" born. '81 - Strike Year. '82 - Sb victory, Montana named MVP. '83 - Lose Championship game. '84 - SB Victory - Montana MVP. '85 - wildcard round loss. '86 - lose divisional playoff game '87 - no playoffs. '88 - SB victory. '89 - SB victory.

So, is this how you measure a dynasty? How do the Pats measure up?

Pats - '01, SB victory. Brady MVP. '02 - miss playoffs. '03 - SB Victory, Brady MVP. '04 - SB Victory. '05 - lose divisonal playoff game. '06 - tbd, '07 - tbd, '08 tbd, '09 - tbd.

[Thor99]

She would always say $hit like I would have a better chance at seeing god than hooking up with her which I found funny because I never even suggested it.

You know you want her. She's hot.

[Smizzy]

You know you want her. She's hot.

Like a compost pile in august.