Good read on Phillip Hughes with comment on Ohlendorf

[madmike1]

LOL...and you call me a pompus ass? We've been through this before genius. Over 80% of fans polled on ESPN.com said this was a great trade for the Yankees. Then there are the 20% who think they're smarter than everyone. Me. Right, I'm the one that thinks I know everything so Im constatntly getting threads locked for making personal attacks and calling every person who disagrees with me a retard or pompus ass. You have a lot to learn about baseball Mike, and a whole lot more growing up to do.

A fan poll. You're kidding right? A FAN POLL? Thats your proof that it's a good trade? A friggin fan poll?

You presume to lecture me about how much I need to learn and how much growing up i need to do and then you say I'M on a high horse? Who the hell are you? Listen to yourself, you're the biggest hypocrite on this forum.

Oh and by the way I'm not the one who gets threads locked just ask Smizzy or Max about that before you spew your usual crap.

[AFJF]

A fan poll. You're kidding right? A FAN POLL? Thats your proof that it's a good trade? A friggin fan poll?

You presume to lecture me about how much I need to learn and how much growing up i need to do and then you say I'M on a high horse? Who the hell are you? Listen to yourself, you're the biggest hypocrite on this forum.

Oh and by the way I'm not the one who gets threads locked just ask Smizzy or Max about that before you spew your usual crap.

Hey genius...it's called reading comprehension. I really hope it's mandatory for you once you hit the 9th grade. I was referring to the poll because you claimed I was trying to say I was smarter than everyone else whereas I'm just agreeing with the vast majority of fans. If I wanted to outsmart everyone, I'd come up with some illogical way of judging a players performance and say "look what I know that you don't you retard" (which is pretty much along the lines of how you react when backed in to a corner). RJ sucked last year. Smart fans know that...you don't. Which is harder by the way? Backpedaling or spinning?

[AFJF]

A fan poll. You're kidding right? A FAN POLL? Thats your proof that it's a good trade? A friggin fan poll?

.

This coming from a Yankee "fan" who uses "bad luck" to explain a pitchers inability to get anyone out. By the way, I thought Ohlendorff was dominant against the Sox the other night. Kid was absolutely lights out. Just a little bad luck made him give up a few moon shots. Man he's the goods once he gets his luck straightened out. Maybe Ron Villone can pull him aside and show him how it's done :rl:

[shawn306]

From the moment Johnson stepped foot in New York as a Yankee he looked uncomfortable and unhappy.

Now maybe that was because of age, maybe because of his back, I don't know but the Randy Johnson they got in 05 and 06 was nowhere even remotely close to the the Johnson that was in Arizona or Seattle.

His numbers were decent. Not earth shattering. Decent, and not up to the Johnson standards that we had seen in the past.

I'm glad the Yankees the moved him out. He wasn't going regain his dominant stuff here. Maybe he will in Arizona which is basically home to him.

In my opinion, the fact that the Yankees were able to even get some decent prospects for him was just a great job by Cashman.

[AFJF]

From the moment Johnson stepped foot in New York as a Yankee he looked uncomfortable and unhappy.

Now maybe that was because of age, maybe because of his back, I don't know but the Randy Johnson they got in 05 and 06 was nowhere even remotely close to the the Johnson that was in Arizona or Seattle.

His numbers were decent. Not earth shattering. Decent, and not up to the Johnson standards that we had seen in the past.

I'm glad the Yankees the moved him out. He wasn't going regain his dominant stuff here. Maybe he will in Arizona which is basically home to him.

In my opinion, the fact that the Yankees were able to even get some decent prospects for him was just a great job by Cashman.

I think what you said sums up what the overwhelming majority of fans feel about this deal. MadMike however seems convinced that the Yankees should have held on to an average pitcher (and that's being generous) with a $17 mil price tag.

Solid post.

[madmike1]

From the moment Johnson stepped foot in New York as a Yankee he looked uncomfortable and unhappy.

Now maybe that was because of age, maybe because of his back, I don't know but the Randy Johnson they got in 05 and 06 was nowhere even remotely close to the the Johnson that was in Arizona or Seattle.

His numbers were decent. Not earth shattering. Decent, and not up to the Johnson standards that we had seen in the past.

I'm glad the Yankees the moved him out. He wasn't going regain his dominant stuff here. Maybe he will in Arizona which is basically home to him.

In my opinion, the fact that the Yankees were able to even get some decent prospects for him was just a great job by Cashman.

I'm sure he was unconformable and unhappy but the fact remains that he still had some value because 3 teams were trying to trade for him and the yankees came out of the trade with less value then they got for Jaret Wright. Thats a joke.

[madmike1]

This coming from a Yankee "fan" who uses "bad luck" to explain a pitchers inability to get anyone out. By the way, I thought Ohlendorff was dominant against the Sox the other night. Kid was absolutely lights out. Just a little bad luck made him give up a few moon shots. Man he's the goods once he gets his luck straightened out. Maybe Ron Villone can pull him aside and show him how it's done :rl:

Thist statement shows how little you understand your own argument... You're the one with a lot to learn buddy.

[madmike1]

Hey genius...it's called reading comprehension. I really hope it's mandatory for you once you hit the 9th grade. I was referring to the poll because you claimed I was trying to say I was smarter than everyone else whereas I'm just agreeing with the vast majority of fans. If I wanted to outsmart everyone, I'd come up with some illogical way of judging a players performance and say "look what I know that you don't you retard" (which is pretty much along the lines of how you react when backed in to a corner). RJ sucked last year. Smart fans know that...you don't. Which is harder by the way? Backpedaling or spinning?

No Pal. You're on your High Horse because you refuse to acknowledge facts that disagree with you. And by the way I didn't invent any of this. There are MANY sabermatritions and they all pretty much believe that luck is a big factor in baseball. And I GUARANTEE you that they are all smarter then you.

[AFJF]

No Pal. You're on your High Horse because you refuse to acknowledge facts that disagree with you. And by the way I didn't invent any of this. There are MANY sabermatritions and they all pretty much believe that luck is a big factor in baseball. And I GUARANTEE you that they are all smarter then you.

I can't get enough of you dude. You are absolutely priceless. How funny is it that you're saying they're all "smarter then you"...hilarious. It's smarter "than" you genius. Keep it coming mike, you're comedy gold at this point. :rl:

You're right, I don't acknowledge any "facts" that point to bad luck as a reason for sucking. However, I don't deny RJs bloated ERA, lack of quality starts, and robust HR allowed numbers. I do however ignore any BS that essentially adds up to excuse making which is all you've been doing for RJ since this trade. Excuse after excuse. Spin this number, spin that number. He was bad. You seem to be one of the very few people on the planet willing to come to grips with that. Sorry your boy isn't what he used to be. Go buy a D' Backs hat and cheer on your hero.

[madmike1]

I can't get enough of you dude. You are absolutely priceless. How funny is it that you're saying they're all "smarter then you"...hilarious. It's smarter "than" you genius. Keep it coming mike, you're comedy gold at this point. :rl:

You're right, I don't acknowledge any "facts" that point to bad luck as a reason for sucking. However, I don't deny RJs bloated ERA, lack of quality starts, and robust HR allowed numbers. I do however ignore any BS that essentially adds up to excuse making which is all you've been doing for RJ since this trade. Excuse after excuse. Spin this number, spin that number. He was bad. You seem to be one of the very few people on the planet willing to come to grips with that. Sorry your boy isn't what he used to be. Go buy a D' Backs hat and cheer on your hero.

What makes you the moron that you are is the fact that you're too full of yourself and your own childlike view of baseball to think that for a second there might me more nuanced ways to look at players then ERA. I know better then that and i'm willing to try to learn more about the way to judge players and the real reasons players perform the way they do. Only a moron (like you) attacks someone else personally because they've brought new facts into the discussion which you have no explanation for other then "a fall poll agrees with me so I must be right." Great argument pal. You've added NOTHING to this conversation other then personal attacks. NOTHING.

[madmike1]

I'm done with this. I'm not gonna continue this pissing match with you. Why don't you just put me on ignore?

[AFJF]

I'm done with this. I'm not gonna continue this pissing match with you. Why don't you just put me on ignore?

Well I was going to, but then I realized how amused I am by how silly you are. I love reading your rants about how stupid I am and in them you make baic elementary school gramatical errors. I don't claim to be as smart as you (none of us are) but my goodness if I'm going to insult a persons intelligence I'm going to make sure I saying it without any basic childish errors. I mean, I guess every now and again you can let one slip but you just showed in consecutive posts that you don't know the difference between "then" and "than" even after I pointed it out to you. Putting you on ignore would be like closing my eyes while I watch Dumb and Dumber. Stupid, yet hilarious.

By the way, Randy Johnson is still not good and as I've tried to explain to you before, I don't need some stat geek to tell me something other than (not then) what I saw with my own two eyes. He sucked in the Bronx and it was time for him to go.

[AFJF]

You've added NOTHING to this conversation other then personal attacks. NOTHING.

I apologize dude, my intention was never to hurt your feelings. I was just trying to help you understand the difference between a good pitcher and a bad pitcher...leaving lucky pitchers out of the equation completely. Again, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings and I hope we can move forward from here on.

[Sharrow]

Well, the mud fight aside, if a guy's not on the top 100 prospect list doesn't mean he's worthless. That averages out to each teams top 3-4 prospects, and nobody in their right mind is going to even give up one of their top 5 prospects for a 40+ year old pitcher coming off a bad season. Especially if he's going to cost them a boatload of money.

Also, are you sure that Ohlendorf pitched in the AFL last year? If he really did, how many innings did he get? Anyway, 3.26 ERA, 1.18 whip, and 129K/29BB in AA and a game in AAA last year look pretty good to me.

[AFJF]

Well, the mud fight aside, if a guy's not on the top 100 prospect list doesn't mean he's worthless. That averages out to each teams top 3-4 prospects, and nobody in their right mind is going to even give up one of their top 5 prospects for a 40+ year old pitcher coming off a bad season. Especially if he's going to cost them a boatload of money.

Also, are you sure that Ohlendorf pitched in the AFL last year? If he really did, how many innings did he get? Anyway, 3.26 ERA, 1.18 whip, and 129K/29BB in AA and a game in AAA last year look pretty good to me.

You're 100% right on both counts

[madmike1]

I apologize dude, my intention was never to hurt your feelings. I was just trying to help you understand the difference between a good pitcher and a bad pitcher...leaving lucky pitchers out of the equation completely. Again, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings and I hope we can move forward from here on.

It has nothing to do with my feelings being hurt. It has to do with people wanting to be here to have discussions about BASEBALL, not getting personal about every issue like you love to do.

[madmike1]

Well, the mud fight aside, if a guy's not on the top 100 prospect list doesn't mean he's worthless. That averages out to each teams top 3-4 prospects, and nobody in their right mind is going to even give up one of their top 5 prospects for a 40+ year old pitcher coming off a bad season. Especially if he's going to cost them a boatload of money.

Also, are you sure that Ohlendorf pitched in the AFL last year? If he really did, how many innings did he get? Anyway, 3.26 ERA, 1.18 whip, and 129K/29BB in AA and a game in AAA last year look pretty good to me.

While it's true that the top 100 lists only have room for about 3-4 players on each team, Ohlendorf isn't even on the YANKEES top 10 prospect lists from BP BA and FSN. Ohlendorf's numbers were OK last year but his K9 and IP/H show that he wasn't dominant. And remember thats pitching as a 24 year old in AA, a league too young for him.

I was talking about Jackson when I was referring to the AFL.

[AFJF]

It has nothing to do with my feelings being hurt. It has to do with people wanting to be here to have discussions about BASEBALL, not getting personal about every issue like you love to do.

No mod has ever had to lock a thread because of any personal attacks I've made...can you say the same? It's your MO and now you're trying to spin it (big surprise there) and make it sound like I make the constant personal attacks. You just take it personal when I remind you of the riddiculous statements you make or laugh at you when you make silly comments.

[madmike1]

No mod has ever had to lock a thread because of any personal attacks I've made...can you say the same? It's your MO and now you're trying to spin it (big surprise there) and make it sound like I make the constant personal attacks. You just take it personal when I remind you of the riddiculous statements you make or laugh at you when you make silly comments.

Yes. And I know of many threads that were closed because of the off topic, personal garbage you spew. If i make personal attacks it's in response to attacks that are made towards me. I NEVER start personal crap with anyone. Including you.

[AFJF]

Yes. And I know of many threads that were closed because of the off topic, personal garbage you spew. .

Show me ONE...you can't because it's never happened.

[madmike1]

Show me ONE...you can't because it's never happened.

I don't feel like reading every moronic one of your posts. I know you've been warned for personal attacks more then once. I was warned one time but when i explained to smizzy what i meant he saw that i was only responding to other comments.

I'm done with this pissing contest like i said before. This is my last post in this thread. I'm here to talk about baseball.

[AFJF]

I don't feel like reading every moronic one of your posts. I know you've been warned for personal attacks more then once. I was warned one time but when i explained to smizzy what i meant he saw that i was only responding to other comments.

I'm done with this pissing contest like i said before. This is my last post in this thread. I'm here to talk about baseball.

what else is new? Just keep making it up as you go along. Never once been warned and never once been locked...that's all you. No surpsise thought that once again you have your facts dead wrong. Take care and best of luck learning something about baseball this season. I'll do my best not to hurt your feelings in the future.

[mbn007]

From the moment Johnson stepped foot in New York as a Yankee he looked uncomfortable and unhappy.

Now maybe that was because of age, maybe because of his back, I don't know but the Randy Johnson they got in 05 and 06 was nowhere even remotely close to the the Johnson that was in Arizona or Seattle.

His numbers were decent. Not earth shattering. Decent, and not up to the Johnson standards that we had seen in the past.

I'm glad the Yankees the moved him out. He wasn't going regain his dominant stuff here. Maybe he will in Arizona which is basically home to him.

In my opinion, the fact that the Yankees were able to even get some decent prospects for him was just a great job by Cashman.

Well said Shawn.

I wouldn't call his 2006 "decent", especially when you consider he is expected to be an ACE. Yet he pitched like a #4 or a #5.

And for someone like that, the Yankees made out like bandits over Arizona. If he was an ACE, or a reasonable facsimile, then the trade was not good. But considering the results of his pitching in 2006, it was a steal, no matter how well Randy does in 'Zona.

And I wish him all the luck in the world there. But he was a terrible pitcher in pinstripes in 2006.

[mbn007]

While it's true that the top 100 lists only have room for about 3-4 players on each team, Ohlendorf isn't even on the YANKEES top 10 prospect lists from BP BA and FSN. Ohlendorf's numbers were OK last year but his K9 and IP/H show that he wasn't dominant. And remember thats pitching as a 24 year old in AA, a league too young for him.

I was talking about Jackson when I was referring to the AFL.

That speaks more to teh depth and quality of the Yankee Farm System, then it does as a strike against Ohlendorf. There are a lot of really solid guys now, something the Yankee system did not have just 2 years ago.

[madmike1]

Well said Shawn.

I wouldn't call his 2006 "decent", especially when you consider he is expected to be an ACE. Yet he pitched like a #4 or a #5.

And for someone like that, the Yankees made out like bandits over Arizona. If he was an ACE, or a reasonable facsimile, then the trade was not good. But considering the results of his pitching in 2006, it was a steal, no matter how well Randy does in 'Zona.

And I wish him all the luck in the world there. But he was a terrible pitcher in pinstripes in 2006.

he DID pitch like a number 4 starter. Thats my whole point. Forget the expectations thats not the reality of the situation. He's not a WORSE no 4 starter because of his high expectations. In this market no 4 starters are worth MUCH MORE then the yankees got for him, a redundant middle man, a "decent" prospect who doesn't crack their top 10 list and 2 pieces of crap. The braves traded a no FIVE starter in this market for one of the best set up men in the game and the yankees had more to offer then even the braves did and came away with nothing.

[mbn007]

he DID pitch like a number 4 starter. Thats my whole point. Forget the expectations thats not the reality of the situation. He's not a WORSE no 4 starter because of his high expectations. In this market no 4 starters are worth MUCH MORE then the yankees got for him, a redundant middle man, a "decent" prospect who doesn't crack their top 10 list and 2 pieces of crap. The braves traded a no FIVE starter in this market for one of the best set up men in the game and the yankees had more to offer then even the braves did and came away with nothing.

Youu are entitled to your opinion, but read up what the scouts are saying about the trade. You are in the minority, and by a lot.

[madmike1]

Youu are entitled to your opinion, but read up what the scouts are saying about the trade. You are in the minority, and by a lot.

What scout? Are you referring to the unnamed scout in the George King article? I hope not. The only people who mention Ohlendorf as a prospect of note are the yankees. there is a reason kevin goldstein (who is pro yankee most of the time) wrote that the yankees came out of that trade with ZERO upside.

[Sharrow]

Seattle got raped on that trade with Atlanta, you can't expect to rape somebody every time to make a trade. A #4 pitcher who will be 44 by the end of the season and will cost you a lot of money isn't worth a whole lot.