GimmeShelter Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Five Starters - Five Subs - Two Alternates. Starters: F - Elgin Baylor F - Larry Bird C - Kareem Jabbar G - Oscar Robertson G - Michael Jordan 5 Subs: F - Julius Erving F - Rick Barry C - Wilt Chamberlain G - Jerry West (tough leaving him out of top five) G - Pete Maravich (edges out Magic) 2 Alternates: Bill Russell Magic Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Mac Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Wilt schooled Lew Alcindor. They're both lucky Shaq wasn't around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted May 8, 2005 Author Share Posted May 8, 2005 Shaq would have been just another Center back then. He would still have been good but guys like Jabbar and Wilt would have had their way with him. You have to remember back then there actually quality centers on almost every team in the league. No knock on Wilt, but you'd have to show me proof that he ever schooled Jabbar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 G- Michael jordon G- Larry bird C- Wilt F- Charles Barkley F- Tim Duncan subs G- Magic G- Isiah C- Shaq F- Kevin Garnett F- Kareem (honorary forward) its so hard to leave out all those celtics but i wasnt alive then so what do i care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 G- Michael jordon G- Larry bird C- Wilt F- Charles Barkley F- Tim Duncan subs G- Magic G- Isiah C- Shaq F- Kevin Garnett F- Kareem (honorary forward) its so hard to leave out all those celtics but i wasnt alive then so what do i care Bird at guard?...No can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I started watching the NBA when Bird and Magic were declining, and I hated the fat Magic that was on TV, so forgive me the sacrilege of leaving him off. PG- Jason Kidd: Nobody ever made lesser players better than Kidd. Nobody. Just freakishly gifted at getting players to play above their heads. SG- Jordan: Best player of all time. Why? Because he would be as dominant in 1969 as he was in 1989. I don't know that you could say that Wilt would be as good now as he was then. I disagree with the statement that every team had good centers back in Wilt's time. Alot of his buckets were scored on 6'8" white dudes who wouldn't get a sniff of the league today. Also factor in that guards were all 6'4" and under during Wilt's era. Scoring in the post is alot different now that your average shooting guard is 6'8" and can double you in two steps. SF- Bird: Yes, I saw him at the end, but I also saw him at the end tear Clyde Drexler a new A-Hole during one game. The guy was a genius on the court. PF- Karl Malone: Malone will never get the respect he deserves long range because he wasn't flashy and he didn't get a ring, but nobody played the entire game as well as Malone. He could shoot, pass, a rebound with anybody, and he may have been a better defensivbe player than he was an offensive player. Sure, he owes about 15,000 of his points directly to John Stockton, but he was still a rock down low, and an uncoverable player. Barkley deserves consideration here, but he was so sloppy and undisciplined that he cost his team in the playoffs year after year. C- Shaq: For a man that big to move that quick is frightening. Coach- Rudy Tomjanovich: He won with one great player. Phil Jackson and Pat Riley won with Hall of Famers at at least three positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 PG - Magic Johnson SG - Reggie Miller SF - Larry Bird PF - Karl Malone C- Wilt Chamberlain Bench ------- G - Isiah Thomas G - Clyde Drexler F - Charles Barkley F - Shawn Kemp C - Hakeem Olajawon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 PG - Magic Johnson SG - Reggie Miller SF - Larry Bird PF - Karl Malone C- Wilt Chamberlain Bench ------- G - Isiah Thomas G - Clyde Drexler F - Charles Barkley F - Shawn Kemp C - Hakeem Olajawon Reggie Miller over Jordan? ARE YOU DAFT!?!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Reggie Miller over Jordan? ARE YOU DAFT!?!?? Reggie Miller resume: - wiry SG with great touch - 0 NBA titles Michael Jordan resume: - G/F with great touch - amazing defensive player - absolute game-changer...on off-days - 6 NBA titles - greatest player to ever live - most revered athlete in human history Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I ******* hate Michael Jordan. I would rather have Steve Kerr as my starting shooting guard than Michael Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 If you look at the list of ALL-Time top rebounding averages per game you will see that the "BEST" Centers and Forwards QUANTITY wise played during Wilts era. On any given night Wilt faced the likes of Russell, Reed, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, Lew Alcindor, Wes Unseld or Jerry Lucas, Dave Cowens and Elvin Hayes, If anyone plays in a era where the Center position is watered down it's Shaq. What would Wilt average in a league where Duncan and Shaq are the only legit Centers? Other points: The NBA insignia is made in the image of Jerry West. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double for a entire season. Elgin Baylor was Michael Jordan. Granted I was very young and caught the tail end of their careers but those players would piss on todays NBA where the majority of players lack the basic fundamentals. Name RPG 1 Wilt Chamberlain* 22.89 2 Bill Russell* 22.45 3 Bob Pettit* 16.22 4 Jerry Lucas* 15.61 5 Nate Thurmond* 15.00 6 Mel Daniels 14.91 7 Wes Unseld* 13.99 8 Walt Bellamy* 13.65 9 Dave Cowens* 13.63 10 Elgin Baylor* 13.55 11 Dennis Rodman 13.12 12 Willis Reed* 12.94 13 Elvin Hayes* 12.49 14 Artis Gilmore 12.29 15 Moses Malone* 12.26 16 Tim Duncan 12.18 17 Gus Johnson 12.06 18 Shaquille O'Neal 11.95 19 Bill Bridges 11.94 20 Charles Barkley 11.69 21 Ira Harge 11.60 22 Swen Nater 11.55 23 Neil Johnston* 11.35 24 Dolph Schayes* 11.30 25 Walter Dukes 11.25 26 Dikembe Mutombo 11.23 27 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 11.18 28 Red Kerr 11.15 29 Hakeem Olajuwon 11.10 30 Kevin Garnett 11.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Amen, Gimmeshelter. Wilt was hands down the greatest player in NBA history. The media has brainwashed far too many people into believing it was Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 No way. If you do the majority of your scoring and rebbounding against unathletic white guys, you cannot be considered the best ALL TIME. Not to disparaghe Wilt, but the competition is not the same. Look at it this way--You take an average 6'10" PF from today--let's say Kurt Thomas--he would have torn up the NBA in the 60's and 70's. Killed em. You just can't compare it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 No way. If you do the majority of your scoring and rebbounding against unathletic white guys, you cannot be considered the best ALL TIME. As opposed to making the biggest shot of your career over Craig Ehlo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 As opposed to making the biggest shot of your career over Craig Ehlo? Craig Ehlo was 6'7" and a very solid defender. And when you win 6 rings, it's hard to categorize that one shot as the "biggest of his career." Michael Jordan was everything that is right about sports, brother. I understand hating him, but you HAVE to respect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I have absolutely no respect for Michael Jordan. If Wilt Chamberlain had lived in the ESPN era, there would be absolutely no debate as to who the greatest player of all-time was. And, actually, Michael Jordan deserves more than just those six rings. He should have gotten one from the Pistons last year, since after all, he traded Rip Hamilton to Detroit because he didn't pass "His Greatness" the ball enough. It really is a shame that MJ had to come back and play for the Wizards. The image of Jordan pushing down Bryan Russell to make the winning shot in the NBA Finals should have been the lasting one of Michael Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 That's the point Tom. Jordon was able to win 6 rings in the 90's while in the late 60's and early 70's where the league was simply better, Wilt for all his dominance managed only two rings. If it wasn't the Celtics beating him it was the Milw Bucks or the Knicks. Alcindor (or Kareem to most of us) from 69 until Magic in 1980 won once and it took having Oscar Robertson( arguably the greatest Guard ever) as his point guard. Kurt Thomas....lol. Nice player and a key Knick in todays NBA but the 73 Knicks consisted of, Willis Reed, Dave Debucherre, Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe and Jerry Lucas off the bench. 5 of those guys made the NBA top 50 of all-time list so where exactly was Kurt Thomas playing let alone dominating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Willis Reed, Dave Debucherre, Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe and Jerry Lucas off the bench. 5 of those guys made the NBA top 50 of all-time list so where exactly was Kurt Thomas playing let alone dominating? Bro, out of those 5, only Reed, Lucas and Frazier would make the league today. Monroe, Bradley and DeBuschere, smooth as they were, would all be too slow and too small today. It's the same debate you can have in football--would Jim Brown be as great today? I say hell no. The guys playing ILB back then would be accountants today. Same with the 60's SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Bro, out of those 5, only Reed, Lucas and Frazier would make the league today. Monroe, Bradley and DeBuschere, smooth as they were, would all be too slow and too small today. It's the same debate you can have in football--would Jim Brown be as great today? I say hell no. The guys playing ILB back then would be accountants today. Same with the 60's SF. They used to say Bird and Stockton were too slow....couldn't jump etc. You need to do some Earl Monroe research. You're right though comparing eras is tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The major difference between now and in the 60's is that players in the 60's could actually SHOOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Wilt was the most dominating player ever but that doesnt necessarily mean he the best player ever really depends on what style of basketball you like and what era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I like this thread I can't get enough fo the Jordan bashing. I hate him. And Tom... Jason Kidd as your all time point guard? Please... don't let your bias through. And no, Chauncy Billups wouldn't be my point. My point would be either Oscar or Isiah. Oh, and Larry Bird would have no place near my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I have absolutely no respect for Michael Jordan. If Wilt Chamberlain had lived in the ESPN era, there would be absolutely no debate as to who the greatest player of all-time was. And, actually, Michael Jordan deserves more than just those six rings. He should have gotten one from the Pistons last year, since after all, he traded Rip Hamilton to Detroit because he didn't pass "His Greatness" the ball enough. It really is a shame that MJ had to come back and play for the Wizards. The image of Jordan pushing down Bryan Russell to make the winning shot in the NBA Finals should have been the lasting one of Michael Jordan. So the fact that Jordan dragged his career a couple of extra years is your main argument for why he isn't the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 So the fact that Jordan dragged his career a couple of extra years is your main argument for why he isn't the best? No, that just supports my opinion that Jordan is a giant a$$hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomShane Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The major difference between now and in the 60's is that players in the 60's could actually SHOOT. Players don't shoot the 15 footer well because of the athleticism of the defenders in this era. The 15 footer was always open because C's and PF's couldn't get out on it. Now when you have Kevin Garnett and Kenyon Martin guarding you, guys who are long and mobile, that 15 footer is gone. They recover so fast now that if you're not 20+ feet from the basket, you're going to get rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Players don't shoot the 15 footer well because of the athleticism of the defenders in this era. The 15 footer was always open because C's and PF's couldn't get out on it. Now when you have Kevin Garnett and Kenyon Martin guarding you, guys who are long and mobile, that 15 footer is gone. They recover so fast now that if you're not 20+ feet from the basket, you're going to get rejected. No, players don't shoot the 15 footer well now because they are trying to think up stupid plays that will get them on SportsCenter. Not because the defenders are better. Gimme a break. The defenders are better nowadays because the offensive players SUCK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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