Anyone have any idea why this might be?

[AFJF]

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game. I wonder why the disparity.

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8





 

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game. I wonder why the disparity.

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8





 

One of life’s great mysteries, because as you said pressuring the QB has no impact on the game.

Odd

[32EBoozer]

4 hours ago, AFJF said:

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game. I wonder why the disparity.

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8





 

There’s everybody else’s QB pressure stat, and then there’s the Jets QB pressure stat.

Other team’s pressure brings about victories, where as Jets’ is of no value in the W-L column .

Easy-peasy

[T0mShane]

Glad to see Glenn has finally come around on Will McDonald over JSN. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, AFJF said:

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game. I wonder why the disparity.

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8





 

What's the URL for the above?  I tried searching for it myself but was only able to find this:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-could-hackenberg-stop-the-jets-from-drafting-a-quarterback

[Sarge4Tide]

Completion percentage when laying flat on the turf: 0%

[JiFtheOracle]

Consistent pressure breaks pipes!!!  Positive Vibes Only!!!  Finish!!!  Undefeated in ‘24!!!

[GreenFish]

Was there a recent  debate that brought this thread? Or is it the age old pressure vs. sack debate?

1 sack is better than than 1 pressure.

Pressures are important. Not sure anyone would say otherwise.

The question is how many pressures are needed to equate to 1 sack?

[Bronx]

Let's see if he gets through snap # 5 before anything else. 

[MR.GANGGREEN28]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What's the URL for the above?  I tried searching for it myself but was only able to find this:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-could-hackenberg-stop-the-jets-from-drafting-a-quarterback

Just cruel

[Long Island Leprechaun]

37 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Was there a recent  debate that brought this thread? Or is it the age old pressure vs. sack debate?

1 sack is better than than 1 pressure.

Pressures are important. Not sure anyone would say otherwise.

The question is how many pressures are needed to equate to 1 sack?

1.543. Based on the ever reliable eyeball test.

[GreenFish]

31 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Let's see if he gets through snap # 5 before anything else. 

Had Rodgers been pressured and not sacked, we might be talking about an incompletion.

[Dunnie]

Completion rate for QBs with no offensive line at all ??

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[TuscanyTile2]

11 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Completion rate for QBs with no offensive line at all ??

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Don't say that around here.  The only acceptable answer is "He is the worst ever".  And don't you dare bring up that we rebuilt 3/5 of the OL, including both OTs and also drafted an OT at 1.10.

He's the worst ever!  Got it?

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Was there a recent  debate that brought this thread? Or is it the age old pressure vs. sack debate?

1 sack is better than than 1 pressure.

Pressures are important. Not sure anyone would say otherwise.

The question is how many pressures are needed to equate to 1 sack?

Agreed. And its a weird thing to bring up NOW. The Jets moved on from the pressure king who did not get a ton of sacks - Huff, and instead traded for a guy who gets a lot of sacks and has a tendency to force fumbles - Reddick. 

So yeah, pressures are good. Sacks (and turnovers) are better. And it seems like the Jets agree. 

[dbatesman]

9 hours ago, AFJF said:

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game.

 

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

One of life’s great mysteries, because as you said pressuring the QB has no impact on the game.

 

5 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

There’s everybody else’s QB pressure stat, and then there’s the Jets QB pressure stat.

Other team’s pressure brings about victories, where as Jets’ is of no value in the W-L column .

[Larz]

I definitely missed the origin story here 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

I definitely missed the origin story here 

That's the beautiful thing about this thread.  Nobody knows the origin story.  The whole thread just emerged from the ether.

[derp]

[ECURB]

Jets fans this week acting like JFM was Aaron Donald and we should retire #s from anyone who was good.

Let's raise the bar a little more fellas... you are showing how battered you are 🤣

[RedBeardedSavage]

Hmm… how can I turn this into a Brock Bowers thread? 

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

.....because as you said pressuring the QB has no impact on the game.

I'll take "Straw Man Arguments No One Has Actually Ever Made" for $1,000, Alex.

Of course Pressure "effects the game".

But simply citing "player X had a pressure" without citing the result of the play he had that pressure on is telling only half the story.

Once again, it's entirely possible (and the OP data shows that clearly) to have a defender get a "pressure" and the QB to still throw a 70 yard pass for a TD.  In such a case, did that "pressure" effect the play?  Yes.  Did that effect lead to a positive outcome?  Absolutely not.

It's funny how so many folks here just hate the whole story, and want to cherry pick partial "stats" trying to defend guys who don't complete enough sacks, lol.

Because a sack is definitive.  The completion percentage of sacks is 0.0%.  0 TD's.  0 Long Passes.

The argument that HAS been made is "Sacks > Pressures" and guys who get pressures without getting many sacks aren't as valuable as all that, especially without a detailed analysis of the results of those pressures.

Far too much nuance for this simplistic place, of course, lol.

[32EBoozer]

11 hours ago, AFJF said:

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game. I wonder why the disparity.

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8





 

Link?

[TuscanyTile2]

11 hours ago, AFJF said:

I found this quite strange because we know the pressuring the QB has no impact on the game. I wonder why the disparity.

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8





 

[Greenseed4]

I hate click bait.  But I hate myself more when I click-knowing it's probably click bait.

Probably how a largemouth bass feels before, during, and after biting a rubber worm.  

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That's the beautiful thing about this thread.  Nobody knows the origin story.  The whole thread just emerged from the ether.

I see posts like this as an estoeric defense of Zach wilson 

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I see posts like this as an estoeric defense of Zach wilson 

For good reason.  Though I'm not defending him in an esoteric way.  

[Warfish]

Lets Add another Tier to the OP's numbers:

Completion pct with clean pocket vs under pressure vs. after being sacked:

Pat Mahomes: 76.2/48.9/0.0

Lamar Jackson: 73.1/50/0.0

Jalen Hurts: 74.7/49.5/0.0

Aaron Rodgers (2022): 69.4/47/0.0

Josh Allen: 74.4/49.2/0.0

Jared Goff: 75.8/49.8/0.0

Wow, that's a huge difference between the lowered comp. % of pressure vs. the lowered completion rate after being sacked.

Now, I wonder how many passing yards and TD's these QB's got from their "under pressure" lower comp. % vs. how many passing yards and TD's they got after they were sacked.

Oh wait, I know that second part.  It's 0 yards and 0 TD's.  Actually it's better than that, it's negative yards!

Yup, sacks really are A LOT better than just pressures.  A lot.  Just like we said (and yall didn't understand).

[Warfish]

Maybe I really need to dumb this down for some folks:

Question - Please choose your desired outcome of a Defensive play for your team:

A. Defender pressures QB, QB completes pass for 70 yards and a TD.

B. Defender pressures QB, QB throws an incompletion.

C. Defender sacks QB.  Offenses loses 8 yards.

I vote C.  Anyone want to disagree, and claim A or B is better?

 

[jamesr]

Maybe I really need to dumb this down for some folks:
Question - Please choose your desired outcome of a Defensive play for your team:
A. Defender pressures QB, QB completes pass for 70 yards and a TD.
B. Defender pressures QB, QB throws an incompletion.
C. Defender sacks QB.  Offenses loses 8 yards.
I vote C.  Anyone want to disagree, and claim A or B is better?
 

Purely playing devil's advocate ...

A. Defender pressures QB, QB throws an INT which is returned for a TD
B. Defender sacks QB for a loss of 4 yards on the play

Context is also important. A third down pressure which forces an incompletion and a punt is far better than a 10 yard sack if the QB throws for 20 yards and a first down on the next play. Which we've seen way too many times.

Now I'm not expecting that there's a notably high % rate of pressures to INTs. Though I'd be interested to know if it's better than, worse than, or similar to the rate of fumble recoveries off of sacks. Might need to do some digging on that one.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'll take "Straw Man Arguments No One Has Actually Ever Made" for $1,000, Alex.

Of course Pressure "effects the game".

But simply citing "player X had a pressure" without citing the result of the play he had that pressure on is telling only half the story.

Once again, it's entirely possible (and the OP data shows that clearly) to have a defender get a "pressure" and the QB to still throw a 70 yard pass for a TD.  In such a case, did that "pressure" effect the play?  Yes.  Did that effect lead to a positive outcome?  Absolutely not.

It's funny how so many folks here just hate the whole story, and want to cherry pick partial "stats" trying to defend guys who don't complete enough sacks, lol.

Because a sack is definitive.  The completion percentage of sacks is 0.0%.  0 TD's.  0 Long Passes.

The argument that HAS been made is "Sacks > Pressures" and guys who get pressures without getting many sacks aren't as valuable as all that, especially without a detailed analysis of the results of those pressures.

Far too much nuance for this simplistic place, of course, lol.

From my side it was a joke. Sarcasm.  In response to @AFJF’s post.  
I could care less that you believe pressure doesn’t include sacks and that pressure has to lead to a negative play to be worthy of praise.  As if constant pressure without a sack or inc pass won’t lead to a bad play or changes to game plan, etc.

Didn’t need multiple posts trying to downplay the value of pressure vs sacks.  No shlt, really.  Doesn’t change the value of pressuring a QB.  

Regardless you missed the point.  

[Warfish]

46 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Purely playing devil's advocate ...

A. Defender pressures QB, QB throws an INT which is returned for a TD
B. Defender sacks QB for a loss of 4 yards on the play

Context is also important. A third down pressure which forces an incompletion and a punt is far better than a 10 yard sack if the QB throws for 20 yards and a first down on the next play. Which we've seen way too many times.

Now I'm not expecting that there's a notably high % rate of pressures to INTs. Though I'd be interested to know if it's better than, worse than, or similar to the rate of fumble recoveries off of sacks. Might need to do some digging on that one.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Exactly!  It can work both ways.

A 'pressure' cited alone, without knowing the results of the play(s), is not enough info to judge it's worth/value.

[hawk]

9 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Was there a recent  debate that brought this thread? Or is it the age old pressure vs. sack debate?

1 sack is better than than 1 pressure.

Pressures are important. Not sure anyone would say otherwise.

The question is how many pressures are needed to equate to 1 sack?

Which is better, 1 sack or 1 pressure that caused a pick 6 (scratch that), a pick?

Wait, which is more important, a sack fumble, or a pressure that creates a pick?

I guess a sack fumble is more points in fantasy, so I'll go with sack fumble.

[GreenFish]

4 minutes ago, hawk said:

Which is better, 1 sack or 1 pressure that caused a pick 6 (scratch that), a pick?

Wait, which is more important, a sack fumble, or a pressure that creates a pick?

I guess a sack fumble is more points in fantasy, so I'll go with sack fumble.

What about a sack vs a completion that came under pressure?

Or a sack vs a TD than came from a play where the QB was under pressure?

A pick under pressure is the only scenario where a pressure is likely more valuable than a sack.

[nycdan]

10 hours ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Completion percentage when laying flat on the turf: 0%

True, but Garrett Wilson is 1-1 catching a ball while laying flat on the turf.