Philosophically, the Mitchell Report is an unmitigated DISGRACE

[nj meadowlands]

I could write a god damn thesis on this.

A posthumous probe into baseball's steroid use that won't change a DAMN THING. Fans will still pour into ballparks in record numbers. Baseball's TESTING POLICY, the thing that we should focus on fixing, is no better after this piece of garbage report. NO LEGAL SANCTIONS will be issued for players who have used in the past.

So what's the POINT?

Is the point to pour millions and millions of GOVERNMENT dollars, thousands of man hours, and hundreds of staffers into a study on STEROIDS!? REALLY??????????

This is embarrassing.

[Bugg]

If they wanted an effective investigation, it should have been totally confidential from the public and the government with no names, just a search for how things got so out of control and what to do now. Instead Mitchell, interviewing by his account all of 4 people(Giambi, Macnamee, Radomski and 1 unnamed player) spent millions and hours doing very little than producinga doorstop of a report that does nothing substantive except embarrass people. Also, no one will ever cooperate with an MBL investigation ever again unless like Macnamee and Radomski they are facing jail time and looking for some brownie points with prosecutors.

Selig, for all his BS, forced Giambi to talk.And nobody else.

[Lil Bit Special]

I could write a god damn thesis on this.

A posthumous probe into baseball's steroid use that won't change a DAMN THING. Fans will still pour into ballparks in record numbers. Baseball's TESTING POLICY, the thing that we should focus on fixing, is no better after this piece of garbage report. NO LEGAL SANCTIONS will be issued for players who have used in the past.

So what's the POINT?

Is the point to pour millions and millions of GOVERNMENT dollars, thousands of man hours, and hundreds of staffers into a study on STEROIDS!? REALLY??????????

This is embarrassing.

If this is what you got out of it, you missed the point of it entirely. Keep showing up and keep your eyes closed to the bigger picture. There will be millions more like you filing into the stadiums also.

You want Clemens and Pettite and LoDuca suspended? For violations when there was no penalty in place for such violations?

This report was done for the following reasons:

1. To show the players and the players union are not looking out for the best interests of baseball and upholding the integrity of the game.

2. There is a real and serious problem of steroids and HGH in baseball which has been ignored by the owners and players for years.

3. To push for real drug testing. The players union only agreed to the drug testing policy they have now because of the threat of government intervention. Without public pressure, we would have to continue to put up with this for years.

4. To restore the integrity of the game.

[nj meadowlands]

If this is what you got out of it, you missed the point of it entirely. Keep showing up and keep your eyes closed to the bigger picture. There will be millions more like you filing into the stadiums also.

You want Clemens and Pettite and LoDuca suspended? For violations when there was no penalty in place for such violations?

This report was done for the following reasons:

1. To show the players and the players union are not looking out for the best interests of baseball and upholding the integrity of the game.

2. There is a real and serious problem of steroids and HGH in baseball which has been ignored by the owners and players for years.

3. To push for real drug testing. The players union only agreed to the drug testing policy they have now because of the threat of government intervention. Without public pressure, we would have to continue to put up with this for years.

4. To restore the integrity of the game.

Actually, it is you that missed the point of my post, not me with the investigation. But I don't feel like reading about this anymore. It angers me so.

[Barton]

This report has ZERO credibility in my eyes.

[Lil Bit Special]

Actually, it is you that missed the point of my post, not me with the investigation. But I don't feel like reading about this anymore. It angers me so.

uh.. no i didnt. your whole point was they spent money investigating steroids and for what.

I told you what. If you care about baseball, this is the best thing to happen to baseball.

If you are a blind fan who only cares about homeruns, all you focus in on is they spent a lot of money.

You say fans will still show up regardless of this report. Which they probably will, but at least they now know how widespread the steroids issue was. Many fans will be turned off by these revelations.

You say the drug testing policy hasnt changed. That is exactly why this report was written. It is to push change so there is a real policy in place with real consequence. This has to be negotiated in the collective bargaining process and cannot unilaterally be put into place.

You say there will be no sanctions will be levied on the players... what would you like? you want them arrested? or suspended? what?

And your main point was they wasted millions of dollars (govt money? havent read that anywhere) on a steroid report. So we should just ignore the problem?? Steroids are illegal in this country. It is an issue bigger than sports. This will help mainstream it and help cut down on illegal use, especially by teenage athletes who are at the bigger risk of problems due to steroid use.

but, you're right. it was a total waste of time.

[Lil Bit Special]

This report has ZERO credibility in my eyes.

why?

[nj meadowlands]

uh.. no i didnt. your whole point was they spent money investigating steroids and for what.

I told you what. If you care about baseball, this is the best thing to happen to baseball.

If you are a blind fan who only cares about homeruns, all you focus in on is they spent a lot of money.

You say fans will still show up regardless of this report. Which they probably will, but at least they now know how widespread the steroids issue was. Many fans will be turned off by these revelations.

You say the drug testing policy hasnt changed. That is exactly why this report was written. It is to push change so there is a real policy in place with real consequence. This has to be negotiated in the collective bargaining process and cannot unilaterally be put into place.

You say there will be no sanctions will be levied on the players... what would you like? you want them arrested? or suspended? what?

And your main point was they wasted millions of dollars (govt money? havent read that anywhere) on a steroid report. So we should just ignore the problem?? Steroids are illegal in this country. It is an issue bigger than sports. This will help mainstream it and help cut down on illegal use, especially by teenage athletes who are at the bigger risk of problems due to steroid use.

but, you're right. it was a total waste of time.

It was a total waste of time. There are no winning parties in this. Baseball, who you claim to be the winner, looks plain stupid.

I'm not gonna stop you from rendering judgments about people's beliefs you don't even know. Yep. I'm all about the longball. You're right.

Out.

[Lil Bit Special]

It was a total waste of time. There are no winning parties in this. Baseball, who you claim to be the winner, looks plain stupid.

I'm not gonna stop you from rendering judgments about people's beliefs you don't even know. Yep. I'm all about the longball. You're right.

Out.

there arent supposed to be any winning parties in this. It is supposed to be an expose on how bad the steroid/hgh era is and it needs to be fixed.

Baseball, the game, will be the winner if they recognize they totally screwed this era up and are willing to change and make they game we all love and respect. If they continue to bury their heads in the sand and fans continue to show up then they are accepting of illegal drug use.

[CrazyCarl40]

This report has ZERO credibility in my eyes.

And you, as a poster, have no credibility in many eyes. See how easy it is? Give me a break. You are misplacing and re-directing blame so that you don't have to admit there might be some wrong doings of players you cheered for. I cheered for Mo Vaughn and many others on the list. I am very disappointed not only at them but at their union for putting a blind eye to it for so long. Get over your biases and realize this isn't a team by team problem but a problem for the entirety of the sport.

[Barton]

And you, as a poster, have no credibility in many eyes. See how easy it is? Give me a break. You are misplacing and re-directing blame so that you don't have to admit there might be some wrong doings of players you cheered for. I cheered for Mo Vaughn and many others on the list. I am very disappointed not only at them but at their union for putting a blind eye to it for so long. Get over your biases and realize this isn't a team by team problem but a problem for the entirety of the sport.

You're on crack.

[Lil Bit Special]

You're on crack.

Barton, did you read the report the whole way through? Or are you making your credibility statement based on what you heard or the excerpts you read?

[JetCane]

If they wanted an effective investigation, it should have been totally confidential from the public and the government with no names,

Did you guys ever post that before the results came out?

Lil Bit Special

Originally Posted by Barton

This report has ZERO credibility in my eyes.

why?

Too many Yankees named, and not enough Red Sox?

[Barton]

Its called conflict of interest, fellas. Put yourself in my shoes and get back to me.

[Lil Bit Special]

Its called conflict of interest, fellas. Put yourself in my shoes and get back to me.

Where does conflict of interest come into this?? Because the main supplier of names wasfrom ny... where did you thing most of the names would be from??

How can you really think George Mitchell would put his reputation on the line and MLB's reputation so the Yankees would look terrible. My God. You people are ridiculous. Do any of you ever look beyond your fanaticism for your team and look at the big picture??

Your cries of conflict of interest show you to be immature and quite honestly pretty unintelligent.

[Lil Bit Special]

Its called conflict of interest, fellas. Put yourself in my shoes and get back to me.

again. did you read the whole report, yes or no?

If yes, please point out where the conflict of interest is in the report. If you are claiming that Mr. Mitchell withheld info about the Red Sox please show us some proof.

If you havent read it yet, your opinion is worth sh!t.

[NIGHT STALKER]

again. did you read the whole report, yes or no?

If yes, please point out where the conflict of interest is in the report. If you are claiming that Mr. Mitchell withheld info about the Red Sox please show us some proof.

If you havent read it yet, your opinion is worth sh!t.

Wait a second. You're telling me that we have to read the entire report to come to a conclusion one way or the other whether there's a conflict of interest? Tell me you're joking. Is Mitchell a director in the Boston Red Sox organization...yes or no?

This would be like hiring someone that worked for Michael Vick to head the investigation whether Vick participated in dog fighting operations...you won't hear the end of this for sure.

[Lil Bit Special]

Wait a second. You're telling me that we have to read the entire report to come to a conclusion one way or the other whether there's a conflict of interest? Tell me you're joking. Is Mitchell a director in the Boston Red Sox organization...yes or no?

This would be like hiring someone that worked for Michael Vick to head the investigation whether Vick participated in dog fighting operations...you won't hear the end of this for sure.

so he is willing to risk his reputation and that of MLB to hide Sox players that were involved or to have a witchhunt against the yankees?

is that what you are saying?

Yes. If you read the report you can see where the evidence took him. These arent unsubstatiated claims made against Clemens and Pettite. They happened. And if Radomski had evidence of Sox players and didnt tell Mitchell or Mitchell didnt report it, dont you think there would be an outcry from either Radomski or the Feds???

Cmon... stop with this silly "conflict of interest" sh!t. This isnt a witchhunt against the Yankees. And if you think it is you are being blinded by your love of your team.

If you can somehow prove that any Red Sox were kept off this report, I will retract everything I said. But I doubt there will be any proof beyond "he works for the sox"

It makes Yankee fans look small and petty with these ridiculous claims.

[anskyruben]

This report has ZERO credibility in my eyes.

Go get some LASIK because you're eyes are seriously flawed. Don't be a blind homer.

[NIGHT STALKER]

so he is willing to risk his reputation and that of MLB to hide Sox players that were involved or to have a witchhunt against the yankees?

is that what you are saying?

Yes. If you read the report you can see where the evidence took him. These arent unsubstatiated claims made against Clemens and Pettite. They happened. And if Radomski had evidence of Sox players and didnt tell Mitchell or Mitchell didnt report it, dont you think there would be an outcry from either Radomski or the Feds???

Cmon... stop with this silly "conflict of interest" sh!t. This isnt a witchhunt against the Yankees. And if you think it is you are being blinded by your love of your team.

If you can somehow prove that any Red Sox were kept off this report, I will retract everything I said. But I doubt there will be any proof beyond "he works for the sox"

It makes Yankee fans look small and petty with these ridiculous claims.

So, what you're basically saying is, if a director in the Yankees organization was appointed to head up this report, and he found no current Yankees using roids and say Ortiz and Varitek were on it, Red Sox fans wouldn't say ****...is that what you're saying?

I've got some land in the Everglades to sell ya.

[Lil Bit Special]

So, what you're basically saying is, if a director in the Yankees organization was appointed to head up this report, and he found no current Yankees using roids and say Ortiz and Varitek were on it, Red Sox fans wouldn't say ****...is that what you're saying?

I've got some land in the Everglades to sell ya.

They would and would look as pathetic as you and the rest of the yankee fans who think this report is compromised.

What Im asking of you and anyone else is: Would George Mitchell risk his reputation and the reputation of MLB (the league who had 6.075 billion in revenue last year)???

They are willing to risk 6 BILLION DOLLARS because of a rivalry? Seriously.

[Boozer76]

They would and would look as pathetic as you and the rest of the yankee fans who think this report is compromised.

What Im asking of you and anyone else is: Would George Mitchell risk his reputation and the reputation of MLB (the league who had 6.075 billion in revenue last year)???

They are willing to risk 6 BILLION DOLLARS because of a rivalry? Seriously.

Not because of the rivalry, but because of his affiliation with the red sox. A jude would recuse him or herself if he was presiding over a case if he or she had any kind of relationship with the defendant at all. Even if they attended the same school but did not know each other. While I certainly don't make any accusations, I do at least find it curious that so few Red Sox players are on the report.

[CrazyCarl40]

Then I guess when George Mitchell put in the report that Theo Epstein researched and asked about both Eric Gagne and Brendan Donnelly before trading for/signing them about their illegal substance history and went for them anyway, he was trying to keep his Red Sox bias. Give me a break.

[NIGHT STALKER]

They would and would look as pathetic as you and the rest of the yankee fans who think this report is compromised.

What Im asking of you and anyone else is: Would George Mitchell risk his reputation and the reputation of MLB (the league who had 6.075 billion in revenue last year)???

They are willing to risk 6 BILLION DOLLARS because of a rivalry? Seriously.

You can call it pathetic all you want. Let's just not single out Yankee fans because I know exactly what Sox fans would be saying. This is a fan base of fans that think they invented baseball with 2 WS championships in a few years...

I've been a fan of this game for a long, long time and I would be naive to think that this report is complete.

[Lil Bit Special]

Not because of the rivalry, but because of his affiliation with the red sox. A jude would recuse him or herself if he was presiding over a case if he or she had any kind of relationship with the defendant at all. Even if they attended the same school but did not know each other. While I certainly don't make any accusations, I do at least find it curious that so few Red Sox players are on the report.

curious? yes. But if Mitchell withheld information that Radomski gave him, the same information that he gave to federal investigators, dont you think someone would come out and say something about it? And it would destroy the whole report.

if they found a source in boston that was distributing 'roids/hgh and was caught by federal investigators, there would be a ton of sox names out there.

The only reason Mets/Yankees are on this report is because he was in NY and had an affiliation with the Mets organization.

Remember, this is a man who was up for the commissioners job back in the 90's. Mitchell is well respected. I highly doubt he would jeopardize his reputation and MLB's Billions on a rivalry. Dont forget that the league cannot survive as individual teams, they must act as a single entity. if mitchell put his team above another just to ridicule or embarrass them it would hurt baseball immensely.

So let me get this straight... yankee fans arent upset because yankees are on it, but because they think he left sox players off??? As ive said, if there was any information about sox players purchasing or using 'roids/hgh it would be in the report or someone who knows about the federal investigations would come out and shoot down this report.

The only reason we have any names is because of federal investigations and guys trying to cop a plea. NOBODY was willing to come forward and give information because they were feeling guilty. Every one of them were coerced for their testimony.

Just wait until they find a supplier in Boston.

[NIGHT STALKER]

curious? yes. But if Mitchell withheld information that Radomski gave him, the same information that he gave to federal investigators, dont you think someone would come out and say something about it? And it would destroy the whole report.

if they found a source in boston that was distributing 'roids/hgh and was caught by federal investigators, there would be a ton of sox names out there.

The only reason Mets/Yankees are on this report is because he was in NY and had an affiliation with the Mets organization.

Remember, this is a man who was up for the commissioners job back in the 90's. Mitchell is well respected. I highly doubt he would jeopardize his reputation and MLB's Billions on a rivalry. Dont forget that the league cannot survive as individual teams, they must act as a single entity. if mitchell put his team above another just to ridicule or embarrass them it would hurt baseball immensely.

So let me get this straight... yankee fans arent upset because yankees are on it, but because they think he left sox players off??? As ive said, if there was any information about sox players purchasing or using 'roids/hgh it would be in the report or someone who knows about the federal investigations would come out and shoot down this report.

The only reason we have any names is because of federal investigations and guys trying to cop a plea. NOBODY was willing to come forward and give information because they were feeling guilty. Every one of them were coerced for their testimony.

Just wait until they find a supplier in Boston.

Good post! As a Yankees fan, I'm upset that this report has "incomplete" written all over it. I can't change the fact that there are Yankees on it...if they roided up, then the hell with them...no excuses. I'm also saying (and I repeat), that only a fool would think that this is a complete report.

Might as well say that some teams took the 5th.

[Lil Bit Special]

You can call it pathetic all you want. Let's just not single out Yankee fans because I know exactly what Sox fans would be saying. This is a fan base of fans that think they invented baseball with 2 WS championships in a few years...

I've been a fan of this game for a long, long time and I would be naive to think that this report is complete.

we can assume that sox fans would be just as pathetic, but we will never know. You can guess all you want. I agree with you. They would probably be worse! But what we know is yankee fans are the ones doing it. And it makes you look pathetic.

as a mets fan, I am crushed at the names announced. My favorite player as a kid. One of my favorite players of the last world series (losing) team. It hurts. I dont care what teams/ players are represented other than my own.

[Lil Bit Special]

Good post! As a Yankees fan, I'm upset that this report has "incomplete" written all over it. I can't change the fact that there are Yankees on it...if they roided up, then the hell with them...no excuses. I'm also saying (and I repeat), that only a fool would think that this is a complete report.

Might as well say that some teams took the 5th.

I will say that I am most disappointed in the actions, or should I say inaction, by the general managers and other baseball team personnel. They could have also stopped this from becoming what it has, but they allowed winning and "the old boys club" to stop them from any action whatsoever.

this report is incomplete, and will never be complete because people will never come forward and name everybody, unless its to protect their ass or to make a buck or 2.

time for some real penalties. first offense 1 year. second offense- lifetime.

[haggis]

Go get some LASIK because you're eyes are seriously flawed. Don't be a blind homer.

THANK YOU!!!

This is the best post I've seen you make as I have felt you are probably the biggest anti-Red Sox poster here. Barton can make nyy fans look awful at times and today was a classic case. Bugg is not far behind.

The report was NOT biased. It gave MLB a severe black eye. The uniforms the players named wore are not the issue here.

[Boozer76]

curious? yes. But if Mitchell withheld information that Radomski gave him, the same information that he gave to federal investigators, dont you think someone would come out and say something about it? And it would destroy the whole report.

if they found a source in boston that was distributing 'roids/hgh and was caught by federal investigators, there would be a ton of sox names out there.

The only reason Mets/Yankees are on this report is because he was in NY and had an affiliation with the Mets organization.

Remember, this is a man who was up for the commissioners job back in the 90's. Mitchell is well respected. I highly doubt he would jeopardize his reputation and MLB's Billions on a rivalry. Dont forget that the league cannot survive as individual teams, they must act as a single entity. if mitchell put his team above another just to ridicule or embarrass them it would hurt baseball immensely.

So let me get this straight... yankee fans arent upset because yankees are on it, but because they think he left sox players off??? As ive said, if there was any information about sox players purchasing or using 'roids/hgh it would be in the report or someone who knows about the federal investigations would come out and shoot down this report.

The only reason we have any names is because of federal investigations and guys trying to cop a plea. NOBODY was willing to come forward and give information because they were feeling guilty. Every one of them were coerced for their testimony.

Just wait until they find a supplier in Boston.

I would like to think a Judge who had some form of relationship with the defendant ,even so minute as only attending the same college while not knowing each other, would still preside over a case with impartiality and not risk their job for their own personal agendas. I'd like to believe that all of them are so impartial to follow the law that strictly. However, reality states that is not always the case, which is why those laws are in place. So no matter how you think George Mitchell i such a stand up guy and wouldn't do such a thing, the fact is you knw nothing about him just as I know nothing about him personally. The fact that he has an affiliation with the Red Sox, no matter how large or small that affiliation may be, raises the cloud of suspicion on whether or not he was impartial towards the Red Sox players.

Look, I don't really think he (George Mitchell) did anything wrong. I just think it was egregiously stupid to have a person that was affiliated with baseball at all perform this investigation. The odd coincidence that so few Red Sox players happened to be on the report only serves to expose that stupidity. It takes attention away from the results of the report and for that reason alone he should not have been the one to investigate. As to the fact I am a Yankee fan, make no mistake I am disappointed at the Yankees on the list. But that doesn't even come close to my disgust with the entire MLB in general. This whole situation is a disgusting embarrassment. The incompetence of the commissioner has been laughable, the beligerance of the players union is pathetic, and the players wanton disregard for the sacredness of the game and their willingness to demean its history is saddening. The bottom line is this report is merely a scratch into the gigantic gushing wound that baseball is right now. I would be willing to bet this list isn't even half of the total players that are actually using steroids or HGH.

[anskyruben]

THANK YOU!!!

This is the best post I've seen you make as I have felt you are probably the biggest anti-Red Sox poster here. Barton can make nyy fans look awful at times and today was a classic case. Bugg is not far behind.

The report was NOT biased. It gave MLB a severe black eye. The uniforms the players named wore are not the issue here.

I am disgusted to know that cheaters wore the uniform of my team. I won't make excuses for any of them. If they are guilty, I would like to see them removed from the club.... Even if it hurts the team. Any true fan knows this is a slap in the face to EVERY fan !!