Robinson Cano Signing Extention?

[GimmeShelter]

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[Blackout]

dustin pedroia, don't forget him. he's gonna be a good one in the future sadly.

either way Wright is better offensively, but Cano plays a better position.

and the distance between Alex Rodriguez and David Wright is much larger than the difference in Utley and Cano

[AFJF]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread. DW is a legit 5 tool player. He is better than Cano in every category that matters except BA which is still above .300. Cano is a great hitter. Wright is a great player. The gold glove is a joke but as a Yankee fan I have never seen Cano make palys on a regular basis that make me think "that's a gold glove play" whereas with Wright, I find myself saying it on a somewhat regular basis about a team that I very rarely watch. I LOVE Cano but I take Wright over him every day of the week.

[Scott Dierking]

LOL scott dierking will tell you wright > arod

It's a fairy tale world you live in. YOU make an idiotic statement that starts this uneven debate, and THEN have the audacity to attach a statement to me that i have not made.

Grow up.

[Arsis]

I'd take Wright on the Yankees any day of the week. Just like the mets would take Cano on their team if they had the opportunity. They are both great players and if I had to choose who I wanted for the Yankees(and I couldn't choose both) I would take Cano, Because we have A-rod already. If I had to choose whom to take for the Mets, I would take Wright because of the ten more rbi's and ten more hr's he hit last year, just kidding, Wright is a better all around and a better power hitter.

[Blackout]

It's a fairy tale world you live in. YOU make an idiotic statement that starts this uneven debate, and THEN have the audacity to attach a statement to me that i have not made.

Grow up.

I bet you I could go back to last year and find statements from you saying otherwise

luckily for you im too lazy

[Scott Dierking]

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[Blackout]

You make a lot of claims that you can never back up.

like the time i said "scott dierking is a cool guy"?

[DaBrick Wall]

Actually Wright hits .311 and destroys Cano EVERYWHERE else including baserunning.

It's funny that you are Bill James only when the stats play in your arguments favor.

Cano is a very good player but not close to Wright as of now. Also the position makes him more valuable argument is rubbish. Go look at any fantasy top 50 player list and you'll see that the 2nd Baseman are ranked just about as often as 3rd baseman.

Homer.

You seriously don't know what you're talking about if you think second basemen are just as valuable as third basemen. I'm not about to say Cano is better than Wright but he plays a MUCH more valuable defensive position and any offense you get from that position, let alone his production, is a major plus. At Wright's position players are EXPECTED to hit for a lot of power, which he does very well. The fact that second basemen don't usually hit for the type of seasons that Cano has produced may make him more valuable to a team than a player like Wright.

And don't use ****ing fantasy baseball to make a ****ing argument.

[Scott Dierking]

You seriously don't know what you're talking about if you think second basemen are just as valuable as third basemen. I'm not about to say Cano is better than Wright but he plays a MUCH more valuable defensive position and any offense you get from that position, let alone his production, is a major plus. At Wright's position players are EXPECTED to hit for a lot of power, which he does very well. The fact that second basemen don't usually hit for the type of seasons that Cano has produced may make him more valuable to a team than a player like Wright.

And don't use ****ing fantasy baseball to make a ****ing argument.

Brandon Phillips had as good a year as A-Rod then

[GimmeShelter]

You seriously don't know what you're talking about if you think second basemen are just as valuable as third basemen. I'm not about to say Cano is better than Wright but he plays a MUCH more valuable defensive position and any offense you get from that position, let alone his production, is a major plus. At Wright's position players are EXPECTED to hit for a lot of power, which he does very well. The fact that second basemen don't usually hit for the type of seasons that Cano has produced may make him more valuable to a team than a player like Wright.

And don't use ****ing fantasy baseball to make a ****ing argument.

First off I never said either position wasn't valuable. I said trying to use Cano's position to make him out to be a better player than Wright is rubbish. He is not close.

Utley, Uggla, Cano, Phillips, Kent, Upton (parts of the season) Kinsler, Mark Ellis, Roberts , Polanco, Sanchez and Aaron Hill all had very nice offensive seasons as 2nd baseman last year. Guys like Rickie Weeks and Pedroia will join those offensively talented ranks.

Some of the above hit for the same or better HR totals as Cano while others had better averages or many more SB's. I believe 18 3rd baseman hit 16 or more HR's last year while 13 did so from the 2nd Base position. Not a huge discrepancy in my opinion.

3rd baseman will always be counted on for power numbers but this isn't 1980 and Cano isn't to the 2b position what Ripken was to SS.

Also from todays Daily News another big edge in Wright's favor.

CANO DEAL: Some baseball people wonder if it was a smart move to agree to give Robinson Cano a four-year contract worth a guaranteed $30 million, given that he is still three years away from being eligible for free agency. As one AL scout said yesterday. "He has a tendency to put it on cruise control. He's got a world of talent, but I know the Yankees had concerns at one point about his work ethic. Sometimes young guys get that first big contract and their intensity comes and goes." - Harper

[mbn007]

Barton, does it take away Wrights FAR superior OBP, OPS, SLG? How about his speed.

In response to the incredible ability it has to take to play 2nd base, we submit to the jury-Jeff Kent, Alfonsio Soriano, Juan Samuel, Steve Sax, etc.

Playing 2nd base is not the most difficult thing to do.

As flawed as the award is, David Wrighty did win a Gold Glove at 3rd Base laast year. He is not a slouch, and his offense FAR outpaces Cano.

This is not even close.

The point being made here, is that Cano does his thing as a 2nd baseman. And his overall production for a 2nd baseman is tops, and worthy of such a contract.

Put it this way. All things considered, including age, after Utley, who would you want next at second?

I think the overwhelming majority of serious baseball fans would take Cano.

[mbn007]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread. DW is a legit 5 tool player. He is better than Cano in every category that matters except BA which is still above .300. Cano is a great hitter. Wright is a great player. The gold glove is a joke but as a Yankee fan I have never seen Cano make palys on a regular basis that make me think "that's a gold glove play" whereas with Wright, I find myself saying it on a somewhat regular basis about a team that I very rarely watch. I LOVE Cano but I take Wright over him every day of the week.

Actually, there is no second-baseman in Baseball who turns the DP better than Cano. Especially when he is the middle man.

No one.

And, BTW, Cano has a very good "range" on his area of coverage. I have seen him make plays in the second base hole that are close to "highlight film" quality. He can handle the position, no matter what the stats or GG voters say.

[AFJF]

Actually, there is no second-baseman in Baseball who turns the DP better than Cano. Especially when he is the middle man.

No one.

And, BTW, Cano has a very good "range" on his area of coverage. I have seen him make plays in the second base hole that are close to "highlight film" quality. He can handle the position, no matter what the stats or GG voters say.

Cano can definitely "handle the postion". Most major league players can handle whatever postion it is that they play. David Wright makes great plays on a regular basis. Cano does it from time to time. Wright is the far superior baseball player regardless of what position he plays. If I'm not mistaken, that was the discussion. Who is the better baseball player. I don't know how it evolved in to this "who is better compared to their weaker peers at the same position"

[DaBrick Wall]

First off I never said either position wasn't valuable. I said trying to use Cano's position to make him out to be a better player than Wright is rubbish. He is not close.

Utley, Uggla, Cano, Phillips, Kent, Upton (parts of the season) Kinsler, Mark Ellis, Roberts , Polanco, Sanchez and Aaron Hill all had very nice offensive seasons as 2nd baseman last year. Guys like Rickie Weeks and Pedroia will join those offensively talented ranks.

Some of the above hit for the same or better HR totals as Cano while others had better averages or many more SB's. I believe 18 3rd baseman hit 16 or more HR's last year while 13 did so from the 2nd Base position. Not a huge discrepancy in my opinion.

3rd baseman will always be counted on for power numbers but this isn't 1980 and Cano isn't to the 2b position what Ripken was to SS.

Also from todays Daily News another big edge in Wright's favor.

CANO DEAL: Some baseball people wonder if it was a smart move to agree to give Robinson Cano a four-year contract worth a guaranteed $30 million, given that he is still three years away from being eligible for free agency. As one AL scout said yesterday. "He has a tendency to put it on cruise control. He's got a world of talent, but I know the Yankees had concerns at one point about his work ethic. Sometimes young guys get that first big contract and their intensity comes and goes." - Harper

There's an offensive value that comes with each position. At second base, any offense you get is a plus as it is not traditionally a powerhouse offensive position. At corner infield, it is EXPECTED that you do close to what Wright does. I'm not sure why you think that good offense at second base equals good offense at a corner infield spot. As far as the "he's going to slack off" quote from a genius scout, players get these contracts ALL THE TIME. It took the Yankees 20 years to realize that these types of contracts save you money in the long run. He's not going to slack off because he's making a marginal contract (yes, it's sad, but that's what $7.5 million really is).

[Scott Dierking]

There's an offensive value that comes with each position. At second base, any offense you get is a plus as it is not traditionally a powerhouse offensive position. At corner infield, it is EXPECTED that you do close to what Wright does. I'm not sure why you think that good offense at second base equals good offense at a corner infield spot. As far as the "he's going to slack off" quote from a genius scout, players get these contracts ALL THE TIME. It took the Yankees 20 years to realize that these types of contracts save you money in the long run. He's not going to slack off because he's making a marginal contract (yes, it's sad, but that's what $7.5 million really is).

Hmmmmm .300, 30-30, 100 is "expected" at 3rd base. Interesting.

There are a huge amount of 3rd basemen missing "expectations".

[AFJF]

Hmmmmm .300, 30-30, 100 is "expected" at 3rd base. Interesting.

There are a huge amount of 3rd basemen missing "expectations".

So true. There are very few players in MLB that have the set of skills that Wright has...no matter what position they might play.

[mbn007]

Hmmmmm .300, 30-30, 100 is "expected" at 3rd base. Interesting.

There are a huge amount of 3rd basemen missing "expectations".

I think DaBrick Wall was a little exuberant here in his comment, but the point is valid. At 3B, you are expected to provide offense, and in fact, on several teams, the 3rd baseman is a key clog in the lineup. But at 2nd base, offense is looked upon as a "bonus" if it is considerably above what your average guy gives, while you still play solid defense.

Cano is among the very few 2nd basemen who deliver the all-around offensive package that he does. Utley is #1, and a solid, reasonable argument can be made that Robbie is #2. And what they deliver is well above the norm expectations for their position.

I believe that was his point.

The final comment of his average annual value of the contract is quite true. If the deal stands at 57 million over 6 years, 9.5 million per is quite reasonable for the expected production, offensively and defensively.

[Scott Dierking]

I think DaBrick Wall was a little exuberant here in his comment, but the point is valid. At 3B, you are expected to provide offense, and in fact, on several teams, the 3rd baseman is a key clog in the lineup. But at 2nd base, offense is looked upon as a "bonus" if it is considerably above what your average guy gives, while you still play solid defense.

Cano is among the very few 2nd basemen who deliver the all-around offensive package that he does. Utley is #1, and a solid, reasonable argument can be made that Robbie is #2. And what they deliver is well above the norm expectations for their position.

I believe that was his point.

The final comment of his average annual value of the contract is quite true. If the deal stands at 57 million over 6 years, 9.5 million per is quite reasonable for the expected production, offensively and defensively.

mbn-Bottom line-You are building a franchise, you have to make a first pick choice between Wright and Cano, who do you pick?

[Kidhuman]

Cano and the reason being: offensive 3B are easier to come by then offensive 2B

[NIGHT STALKER]

mbn-Bottom line-You are building a franchise, you have to make a first pick choice between Wright and Cano, who do you pick?

That's a tough call. With Wright, what you see is what you get. And that's not a knock. He could play on my team anytime. But, with Cano, his ceiling hasn't been met yet...the best is yet to come. Especially if he can ever work his way into the middle of the Yankees lineup....his numbers would jump considerably.

[Scott Dierking]

Cano and the reason being: offensive 3B are easier to come by then offensive 2B

Yeah, and there are just a boatload of .300, 30-30, 100 3B walking around the league.

[Scott Dierking]

That's a tough call. With Wright, what you see is what you get. And that's not a knock. He could play on my team anytime. But, with Cano, his ceiling hasn't been met yet...the best is yet to come. Especially if he can ever work his way into the middle of the Yankees lineup....his numbers would jump considerably.

They are the same age, so how you can say one has reached his celing and the other hasn't would need explanation. Wright CAN'T get better?

Maybe, again maybe, Cano could not thrive in the middle of a line-up. Sometimes, again sometimes, players actually perform worse when they are EXPECTED to carry a team. Not saying that is teh case with Cano, but you can't just throw it out there as a fact.

Wright has PROVEN he can hit in the production spots in a line-up.

[Kidhuman]

Yeah, and there are just a boatload of .300, 30-30, 100 3B walking around the league.

I could give 2 craps about 30-30. OF is where I would want speed. The SB's are a plus. If I were to pick a 3B first it would be A-Rod, not Wright. 50-20 150 is a lot better than 30-30-100

[Scott Dierking]

I could give 2 craps about 30-30. OF is where I would want speed. The SB's are a plus. If I were to pick a 3B first it would be A-Rod, not Wright. 50-20 150 is a lot better than 30-30-100

Why do Yankee fans keep wanting to move this away from Cano vs. Wright to Arod vs Eright?

No one here is saying Wright is better than Arod.

Please, give me all the statistics where Cano beats Wright, just like you did for ARod. I will wait.

[Kidhuman]

I am not moving it that way, I am proing a point, that I would rather have Arod over Wright. If I couldnt have Arod with a first pick I would take Cano.

Wright

Ramirez

Arod

Lowell

Ensberg

Cabrera

all good offensive 3rd base.

Cano

Utley

Good 2offensive 2nd base. See te slim pickings, I would hold for the 2nd round to grab a 3B if I had the choice.

[Scott Dierking]

I am not moving it that way, I am proing a point, that I would rather have Arod over Wright. If I couldnt have Arod with a first pick I would take Cano.

Wright

Ramirez

Arod

Lowell

Ensberg

Cabrera

all good offensive 3rd base.

Cano

Utley

Good 2offensive 2nd base. See te slim pickings, I would hold for the 2nd round to grab a 3B if I had the choice.

You conveniently left out Kent, Brandon Phillips, Dan Uggla, Ian Kinsler, Freddy Sanchez. All good offensive second baseman.

It is not like 3b is the EASIST position to play. If I were to rank positions in order of "defensive need" I would list : C, SS, 2B, CF, 3B, RF, LF, 1B

2B is not the most important position. And it ranks just 2 ahead of 3b.

[Scott Dierking]

I am not moving it that way, I am proing a point, that I would rather have Arod over Wright. If I couldnt have Arod with a first pick I would take Cano.

Wright

Ramirez

Arod

Lowell

Ensberg

Cabrera

all good offensive 3rd base.

Cano

Utley

Good 2offensive 2nd base. See te slim pickings, I would hold for the 2nd round to grab a 3B if I had the choice.

Also, Cano over Pujols, Howard, Utley, Cabrera, Ordonez, etc etc?

Wow, Cano the 2nd best player in baseball based on position?

[Scott Dierking]

I am not moving it that way, I am proing a point, that I would rather have Arod over Wright. If I couldnt have Arod with a first pick I would take Cano.

Wright

Ramirez

Arod

Lowell

Ensberg

Cabrera

all good offensive 3rd base.

Cano

Utley

Good 2offensive 2nd base. See te slim pickings, I would hold for the 2nd round to grab a 3B if I had the choice.

Oh, and I can only imagine where the Hanley Ramirez', Jose Reyes' and the Jimmy Rollins' fall in your "posiitional scarcity" list, because they even play a MORE difficult position than 2b.

[Kidhuman]

You conveniently left out Kent, Brandon Phillips, Dan Uggla, Ian Kinsler, Freddy Sanchez. All good offensive second baseman.

Kent is aging and I wouldnt want him. I would take Uggla, not too familiar with Kinsler, Phillips or Sanchez

It is not like 3b is the EASIST position to play. If I were to rank positions in order of "defensive need" I would list : C, SS, 2B, CF, 3B, RF, LF, 1B

2B is not the most important position. And it ranks just 2 ahead of 3b.

but it is top three and ahead of 3rd base, so why pick a 3B over a 2B?

Also, Cano over Pujols, Howard, Utley, Cabrera, Ordonez, etc etc?

Wow, Cano the 2nd best player in baseball based on position?

Well, the choices were Wright or Cano, I told you I would pick Arod over everyone else. Why are you trying to bring everyone else into this discussion

Oh, and I can only imagine where the Hanley Ramirez', Jose Reyes' and the Jimmy Rollins' fall in your "posiitional scarcity" list, because they even play a MORE difficult position than 2b.

See above

[mbn007]

mbn-Bottom line-You are building a franchise, you have to make a first pick choice between Wright and Cano, who do you pick?

Neither.

I would grab Santana, or someone of that ilk. The dominant starter keeps me in games 30 times a year. The Wright vs. Cano issue as far as a 1st overall pick, for building a franchise, really is not the best choice, if I can grab pitching, especially starting pitching.

So, if I had some pieces in place, and I was only able to get one of these, I go with the offensive 2B, as there is always a better chance of finding power at 3B from FA, the draft, etc. But the type of offensive 2Bmen like Cano are rarer than the type of 3Bmen like Wright.

Not a knock on Wright. But a praise to Cano.

[Scott Dierking]

but it is top three and ahead of 3rd base, so why pick a 3B over a 2B?

Because his overall offensive production and balance outweigh any positional aspects.

The only aspect that Cano is slightly, and I mean SLIGHTLY better than Wright is his batting average. That is negligible.

Every other number is very weighted to Wright.

[Scott Dierking]

Neither.

I would grab Santana, or someone of that ilk. The dominant starter keeps me in games 30 times a year. The Wright vs. Cano issue as far as a 1st overall pick, for building a franchise, really is not the best choice, if I can grab pitching, especially starting pitching.

So, if I had some pieces in place, and I was only able to get one of these, I go with the offensive 2B, as there is always a better chance of finding power at 3B from FA, the draft, etc. But the type of offensive 2Bmen like Cano are rarer than the type of 3Bmen like Wright.

Not a knock on Wright. But a praise to Cano.

To try an analyze your dance, Cano over Wright if these were your only 2 options as 1st pick?

[Kidhuman]

Avg is the most important thing. ranted they are not spearated by much, but getting on base is more important than driving in runs and itting home runs. Lots of things happen on the base pads. An all or nothing guy(Rob Deer) is a waste. Not saying Wright or Cano is one of them, but Avg is more important then HR's. RBI's are important also, ut so are runs. Base path knowldge, going form first to third, all tiese things add up and from what I see in Cano, he will mature into power, he has good speed and can run the bases. I would take my chances with him over Wright.

[NIGHT STALKER]

They are the same age, so how you can say one has reached his celing and the other hasn't would need explanation. Wright CAN'T get better?

Maybe, again maybe, Cano could not thrive in the middle of a line-up. Sometimes, again sometimes, players actually perform worse when they are EXPECTED to carry a team. Not saying that is teh case with Cano, but you can't just throw it out there as a fact.

Wright has PROVEN he can hit in the production spots in a line-up.

You Met fans are too much...what kind of numbers would Wright be putting up if he batted at or near the bottom of the Mets lineup like Cano has his entire career with the Yanks? We could be talking about a .250 hitter with that Mets lineup.

And as far as Cano not reaching his ceiling. I've never heard one unbiased announcer ever say Wright could be better than he is right now...yet, I hear those same announcers compare Cano to Carew and almost all agree he hasn't reached his power potential yet.