Patriots cheated in 2004 AFC Championship Game - NFL Network

[RSJ]

1) You can do this with binoculars also or whatever means you intend to use. Everyone has access to the coach's film and can link a hand signal/verbal command to a formation or adjustment. The Patriots recorded it. That was what broke the rule.

2) "We're talking about a walk through. Not a game. Not a play book. A walk through. Come on man. A walk through." If Mike Martz sot his load at a walk through that was not private, I think I am a full qualified to be an NFL HC.

1) I know that was the broken rule.

2) Put yourself in the coaches shoes. Your walk through is the final time you get to prep your team before the big game. You are going over whatever important plays, and situations your team will face and the different formations you will use to counter it and it is recorded. Is it a big deal now? Maybe not in a blow out - but in a 3 point game it makes all the difference in the world.

[BP]

1) You can do this with binoculars also or whatever means you intend to use. Everyone has access to the coach's film and can link a hand signal/verbal command to a formation or adjustment. The Patriots recorded it. That was what broke the rule.

Binoculars are not the issue, that's just stealing signs that might eventually changed the next game anyway. video taping signals + down and distance is clearly not the same thing. you have a lot more time to scrutinize video than you do live action.

2) "We're talking about a walk through. Not a game. Not a play book. A walk through. Come on man. A walk through." If Mike Martz sot his load at a walk through that was not private, I think I am a full qualified to be an NFL HC.

If it's not that big of a deal, then why doesn't mumbles invite everybody to his walk through the day before the super bowl?

[Lady Jet]

Again, it is six of one and a half dozen of the other. Both are attempts to decipher and steal the other team's signals only using different mediums.

I saw an NFL special where a defensive player accessed a database. He entered in some terms for a query and pulled up every play that met the criteria for his next opponent. He could do it for as long as he wanted to go back. The technology is already there.

You act like the Patriots are the only team utilizing CPUs.

PFSIKH, you still seem to be hung up on the means of how the signals were stolen.

There is a huge difference between stealing with a camera and binoculars.

Let's say you and I are both Belicheat scouts. Our job is to try to steal signals. You can use your binoculars, and I'll use the camera. Our scenario is stealing the Jets signals. We already know that they use three coaches. One sending in the "real" signal, and two sending phonies.

The first thing you need to do is get more people to help you. You'll need one man per coach, (one trained on each, the two phony signal callers and the one "real" signal caller, to pick up the visuals that you can decipher and describe in your laptop. You'll also need three more to lip sync as well, one per coach (That's six, (minimal) attempting to decipher and add the data to your laptop.)

Me, I just need my camera. It will capture it all. Oh yeah, and mine will be a hell of a lot more accurate than yours. Cameras don't lie

Hmmm, did you and your binoculars miss something? Yeah, it's a shame you don't have a pause or rewind in your technology. BTW, my camera didn't miss a beat.

Oh, I can also share the video and audio I caught on my camera with anyone, anytime.

Plus, after I capture the video and audio, I'll just plug my camera into my computer and it will recognize tendencies in seconds. Geez, I may even be able to use what I've learned in this game.

You, well your info may be of use in the future.

One more thing, I can watch my info again and again, perhaps picking up other nuances that I may have missed the first time I watched. Something you can't catch with your binoculars.

[SouthernJet]

ooops...

[SouthernJet]

[jetophile]

Hey Gainzo --

GFY People? Is that the level you are at? Really? It's a Jets board. This is a thread about comments that were made today on the NFL Network.

It is obvious that this bothers you. And it should. Because it tarnishes what you guys thought was hard earned and legitimate. As the truth comes to the surface, the dynasty comes into question. That hurts, we know it hurts.

Trust us when we say that we are here for you though to laugh and rub our hands together with glee.

[jetophile]

From the NY Jets Kangaroo Court system.

That's hitting Gainzo below the belt. Is that really necessary? Whose side are you on?

[PFSIKH]

Binoculars are not the issue, that's just stealing signs that might eventually changed the next game anyway. video taping signals + down and distance is clearly not the same thing. you have a lot more time to scrutinize video than you do live action.

Again, it is not stealing signals that the NFL slammed the Patriots for. It is how they did it. I agree with the benefits of the camera although I think you donwplay the capability of using binoculars. SHannhan said they use binoculars and by halftime if not earlier, they have the signals figured out.

If it's not that big of a deal, then why doesn't mumbles invite everybody to his walk through the day before the super bowl?

Come BP this is too easy. While I doubt there is muc you get from it, there is a chance something might be gained from it. If Martz is that stupid, that is not the Patriots problem.

PFSIKH, you still seem to be hung up on the means of how the signals were stolen.

There is a huge difference between stealing with a camera and binoculars.

Let's say you and I are both Belicheat scouts. Our job is to try to steal signals. You can use your binoculars, and I'll use the camera. Our scenario is stealing the Jets signals. We already know that they use three coaches. One sending in the "real" signal, and two sending phonies.

The first thing you need to do is get more people to help you. You'll need one man per coach, (one trained on each, the two phony signal callers and the one "real" signal caller, to pick up the visuals that you can decipher and describe in your laptop. You'll also need three more to lip sync as well, one per coach (That's six, (minimal) attempting to decipher and add the data to your laptop.)

Me, I just need my camera. It will capture it all. Oh yeah, and mine will be a hell of a lot more accurate than yours. Cameras don't lie

Hmmm, did you and your binoculars miss something? Yeah, it's a shame you don't have a pause or rewind in your technology. BTW, my camera didn't miss a beat.

Oh, I can also share the video and audio I caught on my camera with anyone, anytime.

Plus, after I capture the video and audio, I'll just plug my camera into my computer and it will recognize tendencies in seconds. Geez, I may even be able to use what I've learned in this game.

You, well your info may be of use in the future.

One more thing, I can watch my info again and again, perhaps picking up other nuances that I may have missed the first time I watched. Something you can't catch with your binoculars.

LJ thank you. That is the whole issue. The Patriots were not punished for stealing signals. They were punished for their method. I am not saying that the Patriots taping methods do not have advantages. It is not what the Patriots were doing, but how they were doing it.

[Lady Jet]

LJ thank you. That is the whole issue. The Patriots were not punished for stealing signals. They were punished for their method. I am not saying that the Patriots taping methods do not have advantages. It is not what the Patriots were doing, but how they were doing it.

ummm, you're welcome, I think?

Seriously, I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I think most agree that stealing signals goes on, and although it's not necessarily "legal" it's something that is considered "part of the game". And yeah, Belicheat was only punished for the method of signal stealing he used, not for stealing signals.

But, there is a reason the NFL made a rule against stealing signals with a video camera, ...it's faster, and 100 percent accurate. I think most of the ire comes from the fact that this was addressed, pretty sternly, and Belicheat continued to do it anyway. Honestly, if he left Estrella behind that day, this would never have been an issue.