Cimini article today about D-Rob

[faba]

Jets' Dewayne Robertson on block

BY RICH CIMINI

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Tuesday, February 26th 2008, 4:00 AM

Weissman for News Dewayne Robertson

Dewayne Robertson doesn't tie up blockers on a consistent basis, largely because he's too small to play nose tackle in the Jets' 3-4 defense. But there is one thing he can tie up: the salary cap. His $11.2 million figure consumes one-tenth of the team's cap.

For those reasons - money and scheme - the Jets are willing to listen to trade offers for the former first-round pick, the Daily News has learned. Over the last few days at the scouting combine in Indianapolis, the Jets have been gauging Robertson's value around the league, according to several NFL sources. A handful of teams, including the Broncos, are showing interest.

It means that two of the Jets' highest-drafted defensive players, Robertson and linebacker Jonathan Vilma, could be traded. The Daily News reported on Friday that Vilma, a first-round pick in 2004, has received permission from the team to seek a trade. He, too, is ill-suited to Eric Mangini's 3-4 scheme.

Robertson, the fourth pick in 2003, never has lived up to expectations and his contract has become an albatross. He's due to make $9.8 million this season - $6.8 million in base pay, plus a $3 million roster bonus (due in June). In five seasons, he has pocketed more than $26 million, a hefty price for 14-1/2 sacks. He's signed through 2009.

But he's still only 26, and many believe he could be an impact player in the right scheme. Robertson would be a good fit in the Broncos' 4-3 scheme, and they're known to be in the market for a defensive tackle. The Broncos reportedly are getting close to a trade for the Lions' Shaun Rogers, who almost certainly will be dealt when the trading period begins Friday. Rod Coleman, cut recently by the Falcons, is another quality interior lineman looking for work. He's scheduled to meet with the Bucs.

Robertson is the youngest of the group, so he'd probably have more appeal. But any team that covets him almost certainly will want to renegotiate his enormous contract. It's unclear if Robertson has received permission from the Jets to speak with other teams.

He never complained publicly about being miscast in Mangini's defense, but Robertson is known to be frustrated with his role. Robertson's backup is Sione Pouha, who received glowing praise from Mangini over the final month of the season.

NO PATS: In a new twist to the Jets-Patriots rivalry, the Jets told Vilma's agent he could talk trade with any team except the Patriots, the Boston Globe reported.

[AFJF]

He's gotta be moved. Either to another team, or to DE....could he be less effective than Ellis?

[NOExcusesNYJ]

he's a goner.... just a matter of time IMO. i'll take anything for him just to dump the salary

[Ghost]

He's not productive enough to get that money, ship his ass out.

[Sperm Edwards]

"He's due to make $9.8 million this season - $6.8 million in base pay, plus a $3 million roster bonus (due in June). In five seasons, he has pocketed more than $26 million, a hefty price for 14-1/2 sacks. He's signed through 2009."

OK, you see -- THIS is why you don't trade two first rounders and a 4th-rounder to move up for one player. (Subtle hint to people who want to trade UP to guarantee getting McFadden or Long or whomever). You have absolutely NO LEVERAGE in the contract negotiations.

DRob was FOURTH overall way back in 2003 when the salary cap was FAR lower than it is now. FOURTH. And this is what we gave him: 7 years, $54million. At the time I naturally thought there would be ridiculous/impossible-to-reach incentives all over the place in it since that was way out of whack for the #4 pick. If every incentive was reached, Andre Johnson (taken a pick ahead of him in the same draft) would have had a contract that maxed out at 6 years/$39M. So we got one more year out of DRob for an additional $15M. And it's killed our cap & cost us other players we either let go of or didn't sign in free agency.

Now I'm sure there were some incentives (pro bowl/all-pro selections) that Robertson didn't reach. But if he plays out we'll still have paid him just under $50M over 7 years. For the FOURTH overall pick, back in 2003, when the salary cap was only $75M. With the 2008 cap at $116M, that's the equivalent TODAY of giving the FOURTH overall pick a 7 year/$70-80M deal.

Two years ago (3 years AFTER DRob was drafted), we gave the same 4th overall pick (Ferguson) a 6 year/$37.5M contract when the cap was $102M, which was reasonable. A year later we gave the same money contract to Revis who was the 15TH overall pick like a couple of immature novices.

Just be done with this error & never do it again. Trade out of the top of the draft whenever possible, and use that enormous amount of saved money on proven NFL superstars, not NFL prospects. And no matter how great you THINK this or that player is going to be, or THINK you KNOW it, he is STILL just a PROSPECT. And you never know what kooky demands the player is going to set or else he won't sign (see Jamarcus Russell).

Just for comparison, a late first-round pick (#22-32) will get a CHEAP, CHEAP contract of around 5 years, $10-12M. Like 1/4 or 1/5 that of a top-5 pick. And they're not 1/4 or 1/5 the prospect. Ask Indy if they wish they'd swapped picks (and contracts) of Joseph Addai & Reggie Bush.

[CoachTsurfing]

He's not productive enough to get that money, ship his ass out.

Agreed, but it's not Drob's fault the jets drafted him that high. The jets drafted a work out warrior, who played well against crappy teams in college. Then when he was starting to play slightly above average they changed schemes that don't fit his physical stature. So, yes we need to get rid of him, but don't blame the fat arse.

[CoachTsurfing]

"He's due to make $9.8 million this season - $6.8 million in base pay, plus a $3 million roster bonus (due in June). In five seasons, he has pocketed more than $26 million, a hefty price for 14-1/2 sacks. He's signed through 2009."

OK, you see -- THIS is why you don't trade two first rounders and a 4th-rounder to move up for one player. (Subtle hint to people who want to trade UP to guarantee getting McFadden or Long or whomever). You have absolutely NO LEVERAGE in the contract negotiations.

DRob was FOURTH overall way back in 2003 when the salary cap was FAR lower than it is now. FOURTH. And this is what we gave him: 7 years, $54million. At the time I naturally thought there would be ridiculous/impossible-to-reach incentives all over the place in it since that was way out of whack for the #4 pick. If every incentive was reached, Andre Johnson (taken a pick ahead of him in the same draft) would have had a contract that maxed out at 6 years/$39M. So we got one more year out of DRob for an additional $15M. And it's killed our cap & cost us other players we either let go of or didn't sign in free agency.

Now I'm sure there were some incentives (pro bowl/all-pro selections) that Robertson didn't reach. But if he plays out we'll still have paid him just under $50M over 7 years. For the FOURTH overall pick, back in 2003, when the salary cap was only $75M. With the 2008 cap at $116M, that's the equivalent TODAY of giving the FOURTH overall pick a 7 year/$70-80M deal.

Two years ago (3 years AFTER DRob was drafted), we gave the same 4th overall pick (Ferguson) a 6 year/$37.5M contract when the cap was $102M, which was reasonable. A year later we gave the same money contract to Revis who was the 15TH overall pick like a couple of immature novices.

Just be done with this error & never do it again. Trade out of the top of the draft whenever possible, and use that enormous amount of saved money on proven NFL superstars, not NFL prospects. And no matter how great you THINK this or that player is going to be, or THINK you KNOW it, he is STILL just a PROSPECT. And you never know what kooky demands the player is going to set or else he won't sign (see Jamarcus Russell).

Just for comparison, a late first-round pick (#22-32) will get a CHEAP, CHEAP contract of around 5 years, $10-12M. Like 1/4 or 1/5 that of a top-5 pick. And they're not 1/4 or 1/5 the prospect. Ask Indy if they wish they'd swapped picks (and contracts) of Joseph Addai & Reggie Bush.

So why aren't you running the front office yet??? I don't understand why the jets continue to make the same mistakes while other teams thrive. And with a deep draft like this one with no clear cut player that can really help us, we need to move down. I best hope is that dmc falls to us. dmc is getting mixed praise. one minute he's too small and the next his blowing out top 40 times.

[Sperm Edwards]

So why aren't you running the front office yet??? I don't understand why the jets continue to make the same mistakes while other teams thrive. And with a deep draft like this one with no clear cut player that can really help us, we need to move down. I best hope is that dmc falls to us. dmc is getting mixed praise. one minute he's too small and the next his blowing out top 40 times.

lol

You think I would be a good candidate for sweet-talking FA's to come here? You think too highly of me.

But this is why other teams seem to "get all" the top players & fit under the cap. We spend just as much money typically. But we dumped enormous sums on DRob, Ellis, Martin, Pennington, and the like. I mean those 4 players alone we gave over $65M in bonus $ to, which on today's cap is the equivalent of giving them (collectively) about $90-100M. It's not that we don't spend; it's that we throw money at players who aren't worth it.

IMO a RB is rarely worth it. Most under-performing RB's look crappy because their lines are crappy; not because they have no talent. Likewise, some of the "elite" RB's only look so because they run behind top OL's. That's how in one year an Edgerrin James can go from a 120 ypg player who's comfortably over the league average in ypc to an 80-90 ypc player whose ypc drops by almost a full yard.

Just build the OL. There are talented enough RB's to get us a SB ring every single year in every single draft and they don't need to come at the top of round one before a line is in place. It's the most plug-and-play position & don't need to be "groomed" so much like virtually every other position. I'd feel differently about taking a chance at the top of the draft on a QB if that was our biggest glaring hole, but not too many other positions. And half of those are flops anyway (I outlined it in detail once but don't know where the post is).

But this is about DRob. Just dump him. Get what we can & get this player, however good of a soldier he's been - and he HAS been a good one - off our cap.

[drago]

"He's due to make $9.8 million this season - $6.8 million in base pay, plus a $3 million roster bonus (due in June). In five seasons, he has pocketed more than $26 million, a hefty price for 14-1/2 sacks. He's signed through 2009."

OK, you see -- THIS is why you don't trade two first rounders and a 4th-rounder to move up for one player. (Subtle hint to people who want to trade UP to guarantee getting McFadden or Long or whomever). You have absolutely NO LEVERAGE in the contract negotiations.

DRob was FOURTH overall way back in 2003 when the salary cap was FAR lower than it is now. FOURTH. And this is what we gave him: 7 years, $54million. At the time I naturally thought there would be ridiculous/impossible-to-reach incentives all over the place in it since that was way out of whack for the #4 pick. If every incentive was reached, Andre Johnson (taken a pick ahead of him in the same draft) would have had a contract that maxed out at 6 years/$39M. So we got one more year out of DRob for an additional $15M. And it's killed our cap & cost us other players we either let go of or didn't sign in free agency.

Now I'm sure there were some incentives (pro bowl/all-pro selections) that Robertson didn't reach. But if he plays out we'll still have paid him just under $50M over 7 years. For the FOURTH overall pick, back in 2003, when the salary cap was only $75M. With the 2008 cap at $116M, that's the equivalent TODAY of giving the FOURTH overall pick a 7 year/$70-80M deal.

Two years ago (3 years AFTER DRob was drafted), we gave the same 4th overall pick (Ferguson) a 6 year/$37.5M contract when the cap was $102M, which was reasonable. A year later we gave the same money contract to Revis who was the 15TH overall pick like a couple of immature novices.

Just be done with this error & never do it again. Trade out of the top of the draft whenever possible, and use that enormous amount of saved money on proven NFL superstars, not NFL prospects. And no matter how great you THINK this or that player is going to be, or THINK you KNOW it, he is STILL just a PROSPECT. And you never know what kooky demands the player is going to set or else he won't sign (see Jamarcus Russell).

Just for comparison, a late first-round pick (#22-32) will get a CHEAP, CHEAP contract of around 5 years, $10-12M. Like 1/4 or 1/5 that of a top-5 pick. And they're not 1/4 or 1/5 the prospect. Ask Indy if they wish they'd swapped picks (and contracts) of Joseph Addai & Reggie Bush.

POTW NOM

I have always thought that moving up in the draft gives the player a lot of leverage in negotiations, i've just never taken the time to spell it out. Great write up SE.

The problem i have with top running backs is exactly what you said, the difference between a late first rounder, Addai, S. Jackson, as upposed to a top 10 pick, Tomlinson, R. Brown, A Peterson is pretty nominal. Most would agree that the later RB's are better, but at what cost?

When i look at this draft i see the same thing happening, McFadden will be a talented running back, but how much better will he, or could he be than Mendenhall and Stewart?

SE, you are right on with the money with what we gave D-rob we could have landed any number of top flight FA's. Look at what the Jets have needed over the last 4 years, RT, LT, QB, WR, DT, and D-rob plays DT! It's like we forfeited 3 to 5 postions for the "bowling ball with butcher knives".

Makes no sense to me.

[Jetscode1]

lol

You think I would be a good candidate for sweet-talking FA's to come here? You think too highly of me.

But this is why other teams seem to "get all" the top players & fit under the cap. We spend just as much money typically. But we dumped enormous sums on DRob, Ellis, Martin, Pennington, and the like. I mean those 4 players alone we gave over $65M in bonus $ to, which on today's cap is the equivalent of giving them (collectively) about $90-100M. It's not that we don't spend; it's that we throw money at players who aren't worth it.

IMO a RB is rarely worth it. Most under-performing RB's look crappy because their lines are crappy; not because they have no talent. Likewise, some of the "elite" RB's only look so because they run behind top OL's. That's how in one year an Edgerrin James can go from a 120 ypg player who's comfortably over the league average in ypc to an 80-90 ypc player whose ypc drops by almost a full yard.

Just build the OL. There are talented enough RB's to get us a SB ring every single year in every single draft and they don't need to come at the top of round one before a line is in place. It's the most plug-and-play position & don't need to be "groomed" so much like virtually every other position. I'd feel differently about taking a chance at the top of the draft on a QB if that was our biggest glaring hole, but not too many other positions. And half of those are flops anyway (I outlined it in detail once but don't know where the post is).

But this is about DRob. Just dump him. Get what we can & get this player, however good of a soldier he's been - and he HAS been a good one - off our cap.

I know this post started about Drob but your spot on about the need to rebuild the line. This IMHO is single biggest reason the JETS have struggled. We do not create any holes and can't keep a QB upright not to mention the lack of ball control has on the defense. This year we need at least one FA OL and two draft picks or two FA OL and one second or third round pick.

[Sperm Edwards]

I know this post started about Drob but your spot on about the need to rebuild the line. This IMHO is single biggest reason the JETS have struggled. We do not create any holes and can't keep a QB upright not to mention the lack of ball control has on the defense. This year we need at least one FA OL and two draft picks or two FA OL and one second or third round pick.

I'd be ok with either of those. The latter means Moore is starting one more year though. We're going to get a FA LG (probably Faneca it looks like). Then we need a RG and RT. No way we start two rookies next to each other on the right side, meaning one Moore year. He's probably gone next year anyway b/c I doubt we pay Moore a $5M roster bonus a year from next week.

[KSJets]

I'd be ok with either of those. The latter means Moore is starting one more year though. We're going to get a FA LG (probably Faneca it looks like). Then we need a RG and RT. No way we start two rookies next to each other on the right side, meaning one Moore year. He's probably gone next year anyway b/c I doubt we pay Moore a $5M roster bonus a year from next week.

Wow, he's due a $5M roster bonus next year? If true, I agree he'll never see that (let's hope not anyway).

[Sperm Edwards]

Wow, he's due a $5M roster bonus next year? If true, I agree he'll never see that (let's hope not anyway).

It's not impossible. His base salaries are well under $1M for both 2009 and 2010.

[KSJets]

Yes, we can keep him, but I don't think he would be worth a $5M bonus. He's an ok guard, but that's a lot of coin for someone who's just ok.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes, we can keep him, but I don't think he would be worth a $5M bonus. He's an ok guard, but that's a lot of coin for someone who's just ok.

He's a below-average starter. But he'd be one of the league's top backups. Right now he's making backup money.

[Jetscode1]

I'd be ok with either of those. The latter means Moore is starting one more year though. We're going to get a FA LG (probably Faneca it looks like). Then we need a RG and RT. No way we start two rookies next to each other on the right side, meaning one Moore year. He's probably gone next year anyway b/c I doubt we pay Moore a $5M roster bonus a year from next week.

I hope your right about Faneca. I heard we are pursuing but too many teams willing to overpay him. The Phins and Cards come to mind. But the Fitzgerald contract $$$ may take out the Cards. He wasn't my first choice before the FA market dried up. Hate to overpay for glory years with prior team. But it logical to help out DBrick and Mangold. I can handle Moore starting another year as long as we get some talent through the draft and hopefully the FO doesn't wait till the 6th round. We really like to see some second or third round choices shake out of all the trade rumors. This is the year to reload the line.