Thai Jet Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 You methodology is severely flawed. To say that the USA's execution rate is low because our imprisonment rate is sky high is insane. The USA has the highest rate of imprisonment of any western nation and is higher than most dictatorships. The vast majority of people in prison are in jail because they are addicts whose crime was possession. ??? Did you actual even read what you just typed? He was mearly presenting actual facts and figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chernobyl Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 My methodology? I read a statement that suggested we significantly added to only a handful of countries that comprised 88% of the world's executions, which was intellectually dishonest in its presentation. More to the point: there was no distinction that within that group of 5, that there was any great disparity; one reads the statement and can readily assume that the 5 are equal contributors to this "problem" when that is hardly the case. I never suggested our execution rate was high or low. It was only an objection to lumping us in with a country that executes 10x the people we do, and presenting it as though it was an equal number. Because taking out the USA, that figure is no less staggering to say the top 4 comprise 85% of the world's executions. Of course that wasn't in there because it doesn't make the USA look bad. Saying the USA was among a group of 5 that comprise 88% is much more effective at making us look like evil bloodthirsty monsters, even if it is intellectually dishonest. And talk about flawed methodology. We have a high imprisonment rate because we have a high crime rate and police actually arrest people. If it is illegal to possess narcotics, and it is punishable by imprisonment, then you can avoid prison for these crimes by not committing them. I'm not going to get into a debate about how other countries are more civilized than we are because we flick the switch instead of automatically giving each child rapist-plus-murderer free room & board & therapy & access to cable tv and other forms of entertainment...and a salary (low as it is) as employees of the state. If you believe that, then that is certainly your prerogative. But it's been almost 50 years since anyone was executed in the USA for any crime other than murder and further, not everyone believes that if all of Europe does something then it must therefore be right. That is equally applied here; just because we do or do not do something, that doesn't make it automatically right or wrong either. Or maybe I just don't give a crap whether or not brutal convicted murderers are treated with ample hospitality, civility, and entertainment for several decades. Sperm... The 2.2 million prisoners isn't the problem with our prisoners.. Its the fact that we are releasing several thousand inmates per day, and half of those released end up returning to jail... I know you don't want to hear this but Europe has better programs installed for prisoners once they are released... They are forced to work, and forced to continue their psycho therapy free of charge... In America we encourage but don't enforce it properly... We let out mentally ill prisoners everyday and allow them to walk the streets untreated... Sperm I live in Philadelphia.... Do you realize that Philly had 400 murders last year??? The entire country of Germany had something like 85... Their system works better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Sperm... The 2.2 million prisoners isn't the problem with our prisoners.. Its the fact that we are releasing several thousand inmates per day, and half of those released end up returning to jail... I know you don't want to hear this but Europe has better programs installed for prisoners once they are released... They are forced to work, and forced to continue their psycho therapy free of charge... In America we encourage but don't enforce it properly... We let out mentally ill prisoners everyday and allow them to walk the streets untreated... .... EXCUSE ME ! I seem to be doing fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Sperm... The 2.2 million prisoners isn't the problem with our prisoners.. Its the fact that we are releasing several thousand inmates per day, and half of those released end up returning to jail... I know you don't want to hear this but Europe has better programs installed for prisoners once they are released... They are forced to work, and forced to continue their psycho therapy free of charge... In America we encourage but don't enforce it properly... We let out mentally ill prisoners everyday and allow them to walk the streets untreated... Sperm I live in Philadelphia.... Do you realize that Philly had 400 murders last year??? The entire country of Germany had something like 85... Their system works better.... I'm just more likely to fault those who commit crimes, than faulting the government for not giving them therapy. If you can't behave yourself you belong where you cannot harm others and should not be released. I'm crazy like that. If the only way of assuring that is the chair or a public hanging, I care not. I respect the opinion of those who feel otherwise. The only one I think is funny is that a decade-plus of prison is worse than death. Hey - if you forced a criminal to repeatedly watch a loved one in brutal pain, and live with that each day, then THAT would be worse than the chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Sperm I live in Philadelphia.... Do you realize that Philly had 400 murders last year??? The entire country of Germany had something like 85... Their system works better.... Comparing Philly to Germany is not fair; nor is comparing the US to China. Using the same logic above applied to US vs. China in the capitol punishment arena: China has far more people and far more "executions." Yet, they have a lower crime rate and far less prisoners. Their system works better. Demographics play a key role here. There is more to crime and punishment than the actual crimes and punishments. For instance, what is considered a crime on planet A may not be a crime on planet B. Crime feeds on crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chernobyl Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 My methodology? I read a statement that suggested we significantly added to only a handful of countries that comprised 88% of the world's executions, which was intellectually dishonest in its presentation. More to the point: there was no distinction that within that group of 5, that there was any great disparity; one reads the statement and can readily assume that the 5 are equal contributors to this "problem" when that is hardly the case. I never suggested our execution rate was high or low. It was only an objection to lumping us in with a country that executes 10x the people we do, and presenting it as though it was an equal number. Because taking out the USA, that figure is no less staggering to say the top 4 comprise 85% of the world's executions. Of course that wasn't in there because it doesn't make the USA look bad. Saying the USA was among a group of 5 that comprise 88% is much more effective at making us look like evil bloodthirsty monsters, even if it is intellectually dishonest. And talk about flawed methodology. We have a high imprisonment rate because we have a high crime rate and police actually arrest people. If it is illegal to possess narcotics, and it is punishable by imprisonment, then you can avoid prison for these crimes by not committing them. I'm not going to get into a debate about how other countries are more civilized than we are because we flick the switch instead of automatically giving each child rapist-plus-murderer free room & board & therapy & access to cable tv and other forms of entertainment...and a salary (low as it is) as employees of the state. If you believe that, then that is certainly your prerogative. But it's been almost 50 years since anyone was executed in the USA for any crime other than murder and further, not everyone believes that if all of Europe does something then it must therefore be right. That is equally applied here; just because we do or do not do something, that doesn't make it automatically right or wrong either. Or maybe I just don't give a crap whether or not brutal convicted murderers are treated with ample hospitality, civility, and entertainment for several decades. Comparing Philly to Germany is not fair; nor is comparing the US to China. Using the same logic above applied to US vs. China in the capitol punishment arena: China has far more people and far more "executions." Yet, they have a lower crime rate and far less prisoners. Their system works better. Demographics play a key role here. There is more to crime and punishment than the actual crimes and punishments. For instance, what is considered a crime on planet A may not be a crime on planet B. Crime feeds on crime. What's your point... Germany has a population of 82 million... Philly is at about 1.5 million... Philly still has 6 times as many murders as the entire country.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJDidIt Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Wait a minute! These kids killed someone! Killing is bad?! How can we rectify this situation... I know! Let's kill them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untouchable Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 If you like that type of justice system you could move to Saudi Arabia or Iran. Or Texas. Fortunately in the United States prosecutors have the burden of proof and executing people is very time-consuming and costly, as it should be. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html According to this link, in 2007 88% of the world's executions took place in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, and the United States. Isn't that some great company. It's not exactly a bad idea. Inmates on deathrow are going to be executed. That's a fact. Might as well off them as soon as they receive the sentence instead of wasting tax payers dollars on housing for a scumbag killer. I don't get liberal yahoos who care about the "comfort" of a serial killer when he's set to be executed. They say the chair is too brutal and inhumane. They say gassing them is terrible. Now their saying lethal injection is too initially painful and should be outlawed. Are you kidding me? Grab a gun, take them into a concrete room with a drain in the middle of the floor and end it then and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I am kind of an anomally; I consider myself conservative, but am against the death penalty. I simply feel that there ARE mistakes made in the justice system as to the true guilt of a suspect. You can appeal a case when you're alive, but it should be the fear of our adversarial justice system that an innocent man is killed, and to later find out he was innocent. Furthermore, its silly to try to compare America's crime records to, say, China or Saudi Arabia. Our methods of statistically analyzing crime are superior, and less tampered, than in nations such as those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Have fun in the pokey getting the ol' balloon knot stretched out, fellas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Have fun in the pokey getting the ol' balloon knot stretched out, fellas! Don't count on that. From what I read these kids are "gang bangers" and will have lots of friends in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangenious420 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Don't count on that. From what I read these kids are "gang bangers" and will have lots of friends in there. Gang Bangers always have rival gangs ALWAYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 What's your point... Germany has a population of 82 million... Philly is at about 1.5 million... Philly still has 6 times as many murders as the entire country.. My point is that Germany does not have a low crime or murder rate simply due to the fact that they abolished the death penalty. There is far more to it. Culture, history, laws (specifically gun laws), government, etc. All of these things are factors. Yes, the U.S. averages approximately 6 times as many murders as Germany, and that is a sad statistic, but to say that it is a direct result of their capital punishment philosophy is ridiculous. I am not taking a side either way. I can see benefit to both scenarios. We are not as cool as Germany, but we are nowhere near the monsters some would have you believe. Truth is, there is a price for freedom, and the more freedoms allowed, the higher the price. As Americans, the overwhelming majority want the freedom to bare arms, as is our constitutional right, but the price we pay is a high murder rate. I could not imagine the repercussions of no death penalty throughout the country, without a complete gun restriction as well. I think the murder rate would continue to swell as a result. That being said, I do not necessarily agree with the "eye for an eye" mantra, as that leaves the World blind. Again, my only point was that it as not as simple as Apples to Oranges, or Phillies to Germans as it were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 I don't want to get any further into the death penalty discussion or America **** Yeah!, but I want to state on the record that I do not for one second believe that any of these kids will face 40, 50 or 60 years. I'm betting that most of them are out in under twenty. More likely 8 or 12. Also, whatever the sentence, it is nowhere near as bad as being put to death. If it was then you guys wouldn't be yapping about the death penalty. That's right, I'm replying to myself. Anybody have a ****ing problem with that? First suspect pleaded guilty to 2nd degree murder and burglary. Will be sentenced to 29 years and will cooperate against the 16 year old shooter who was charged with 1st degree murder and burglary of an occupied building. The article says "will serve 29 years" but I bet he will be sentenced to 29 years and then get the usual 1/2 or more off bringing him into the 12-15 year range. I guess they are trying to go for all they can against the shooter. http://sports.aol.com/nfl/story/_a/suspect-pleads-guilty-in-taylor-slaying/20080515094909990001 MIAMI (May 15) - One of five suspects charged in the slaying of Washington Redskins star Sean Taylor has pleaded guilty to charges of second-degree murder and burglary. Defense attorney Michael Hornung says that according to the plea agreement, Venjah Hunte will serve 29 years in prison and cooperate with prosecutors. Hornung says Hunte pleaded guilty on Friday but prosecutors requested the plea agreement be sealed because investigators were pursuing the fifth suspect. That suspect, 16-year-old Timothy Brown, was charged Wednesday with first-degree murder and armed burglary of an occupied dwelling. Taylor died of massive blood loss after he was shot at his Miami-area home during a botched robbery in November. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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