baseballnut Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Rumors out of cleveland have Indians Gm talking to Yanks Gm Cleveland asking for Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson Dodgers have start talks said to have dangled / Steve Kemp / Jonathan Broxton/Andy LaRoche/Marlon Arias/ Russell Mitchell /Juan Gonzalez Indians is said to want 4 to 5 and any team must included major league ready pitcher starter or closer type 2nd base / short / or power hitting 1st or tird base type. The CC trade they are hopeing to free up and be able to then trade Borowski / Blake Byrd / Peralta and barfield Byrd rumored already close to going to the Cubs for 2 to prospects and talking to the Mets in a rumored trade broke on the Mike and the MadDog show tuesday Peralta / Garko / Barfield / Franklin Guitierrez / Betancourt and a minor leaguer for Reyes / Delgado/ Heilman So if half that is floating around is true looks like the Indians are going to reload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 He wasn't traded to the Yankees. The title is very misleading. You could've said Yankees could be interested, which would be more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballnut Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 He wasn't traded to the Yankees. The title is very misleading. You could've said Yankees could be interested, which would be more accurate. sorry didn't mean to get you all work up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Rumors out of cleveland have Indians Gm talking to Yanks Gm Cleveland asking for Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson Dodgers have start talks said to have dangled / Steve Kemp / Jonathan Broxton/Andy LaRoche/Marlon Arias/ Russell Mitchell /Juan Gonzalez Indians is said to want 4 to 5 and any team must included major league ready pitcher starter or closer type 2nd base / short / or power hitting 1st or tird base type. The CC trade they are hopeing to free up and be able to then trade Borowski / Blake Byrd / Peralta and barfield Byrd rumored already close to going to the Cubs for 2 to prospects and talking to the Mets in a rumored trade broke on the Mike and the MadDog show tuesday Peralta / Garko / Barfield / Franklin Guitierrez / Betancourt and a minor leaguer for Reyes / Delgado/ Heilman So if half that is floating around is true looks like the Indians are going to reload link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Yeah, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 He wasn't traded to the Yankees. The title is very misleading. You could've said Yankees could be interested, which would be more accurate. agree. a ? would have been good here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The way Cano has played since his new contract, I wouldn't be too upset if he were dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Before this season, I would have wanted the Yanks to say no, but the way Cano has played, I would trade him for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I would pull the trigger yesterday. I think we can find another 2b easier than a good starting pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Rumors out of cleveland have Indians Gm talking to Yanks Gm Cleveland asking for Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson Dodgers have start talks said to have dangled / Steve Kemp / Jonathan Broxton/Andy LaRoche/Marlon Arias/ Russell Mitchell /Juan Gonzalez Indians is said to want 4 to 5 and any team must included major league ready pitcher starter or closer type 2nd base / short / or power hitting 1st or tird base type. The CC trade they are hopeing to free up and be able to then trade Borowski / Blake Byrd / Peralta and barfield Byrd rumored already close to going to the Cubs for 2 to prospects and talking to the Mets in a rumored trade broke on the Mike and the MadDog show tuesday Peralta / Garko / Barfield / Franklin Guitierrez / Betancourt and a minor leaguer for Reyes / Delgado/ Heilman So if half that is floating around is true looks like the Indians are going to reload Mets are not trading Reyes for any combination of those guys. If they were to trade Reyes, It'd be for an all-star caliber player+. Why else would the Mets give Reyes for what would amount to a bag of beans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Mets are not trading Reyes for any combination of those guys. If they were to trade Reyes, It'd be for an all-star caliber player+. Why else would the Mets give Reyes for what would amount to a bag of beans. You're telling me that you wouldn't do that deal if you were in charge of the Mets. You guys would be robbing Cleveland completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 You're telling me that you wouldn't do that deal if you were in charge of the Mets. You guys would be robbing Cleveland completely. There's is no way the Mets make that trade. That's a lot of quantity, but which one of those players have the star quality or Reyes. I understand Yankee fans don't like him, but just take a second and look at his numbers on a yearly basis, and what he does for the ball club. As he goes, the team goes. None of the guys listed there are game changers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 yankees arent doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 There's is no way the Mets make that trade. That's a lot of quantity, but which one of those players have the star quality or Reyes. I understand Yankee fans don't like him, but just take a second and look at his numbers on a yearly basis, and what he does for the ball club. As he goes, the team goes. None of the guys listed there are game changers. I have nothing against him, but I just think that Mets fans over-hyped Reyes a little. I don't think he's a top notch hitter like fellow Met, David Wright. Sure he's fast, but it's turning out that is all he is. In fact, I realize that Yankee prospect, Jose Tabata is just a kid, but the way he has acted down their in Double A Trenton he actually reminds me a little of Jose Reyes, which is why I would rather the Yankees trade him then Austin Jackson. All I really think is, Jose Reyes is way over-hyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I have nothing against him, but I just think that Mets fans over-hyped Reyes a little. I don't think he's a top notch hitter like fellow Met, David Wright. Sure he's fast, but it's turning out that is all he is. In fact, I realize that Yankee prospect, Jose Tabata is just a kid, but the way he has acted down their in Double A Trenton he actually reminds me a little of Jose Reyes, which is why I would rather the Yankees trade him then Austin Jackson. All I really think is, Jose Reyes is way over-hyped. Ok, gotcha. A 25 year old 2 time all star shortstop who hits, around .300, scores 120 runs, drives in about 75 from the lead off spot, and arguably the most exciting player in the league is overrated. Sure, I would trade him for Ryan Garko and Jhonny Peralta, and Gutierrez. All of those guys are spare parts and are easily replaceable, you can't just go out and get a Jose Reyes. No GM would trade a star player for a lot of serviceable players. It doesn't work that way. None of those guys are top prospect either. They've been in the league long enough to know what they are. Reyes is a game changer, he is not a great hitter. If he gets hits about .290 and has a OBP of about .350+, there is no question he is going to affect the game. Please don't compare Tabata to Reyes, the last thing I heard about Tabata is he went home and cried for some reason. Just in case i didn't mention it Reyes is a 25 year old 2 time all star. I don't even know who tabata is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Ok, gotcha. A 25 year old 2 time all star shortstop who hits, around .300, scores 120 runs, drives in about 75 from the lead off spot, and arguably the most exciting player in the league is overrated. Sure, I would trade him for Ryan Garko and Jhonny Peralta, and Gutierrez. All of those guys are spare parts and are easily replaceable, you can't just go out and get a Jose Reyes. No GM would trade a star player for a lot of serviceable players. It doesn't work that way. None of those guys are top prospect either. They've been in the league long enough to know what they are. Reyes is a game changer, he is not a great hitter. If he gets hits about .290 and has a OBP of about .350+, there is no question he is going to affect the game. Please don't compare Tabata to Reyes, the last thing I heard about Tabata is he went home and cried for some reason. Just in case i didn't mention it Reyes is a 25 year old 2 time all star. I don't even know who tabata is. Yeah, and keeping the guy is really working for the second half of last season, and the first part of this season. He isn't that great of a player, he's fast, and is a very dangerous player especially if he gets on base, he is however a guy who doesn't try 100% of the time. Why should I not compare Tabata to him though? I see alot of him in Reyes, personality wise anyway. Instead let the Mets keep going with something that isn't working, and not try to fix the problem, when getting rid of Delgado, and Heilman, to bring in someone like that guy Betancourt, would definitely help out your teams pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 this is not a real rumor. Any team to make those trades would be intensely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 That would be an asinine move, they could have had Santana for less. They'd give up on Hughes after a month? and throw in Cano?(I'm fine w/ getting rid of Cano but not w/ Hughes for an overrated guy like Sabathia) Sabathia was awful in postseason last year, we don't need another good reg season pitcher and bad postseason pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I would pull the trigger yesterday. I think we can find another 2b easier than a good starting pitcher. You're ****ing nuts Cano is a great player....i question making this trade, when we could have made a similar trade for Santana, who is a MUCH MUCH better player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Yeah, and keeping the guy is really working for the second half of last season, and the first part of this season. He isn't that great of a player, he's fast, and is a very dangerous player especially if he gets on base, he is however a guy who doesn't try 100% of the time. Why should I not compare Tabata to him though? I see alot of him in Reyes, personality wise anyway. Instead let the Mets keep going with something that isn't working, and not try to fix the problem, when getting rid of Delgado, and Heilman, to bring in someone like that guy Betancourt, would definitely help out your teams pen. Ok, your original premise was that the Mets would be crazy not to make that trade because it would be a steal for them. I disagree and gave my assessment of the players involved. Please tell me which one of the players Cleveland is giving up is in the same discussion in terms of value as compared to Reyes. Cleveland is hypothetically offering a bag of beans. I and heard the WFAN discussion, it wasn't a rumor, it was a fan calling up and suggesting the trade as such. Your next argument is that the Mets should get rid of Reyes, because "It's not working". You know what, if the Mets felt like they needed to trade Reyes to shake things up, I would not be for it, but I am not going to go crazy. But no one ever makes a trade to give up a "25 Year old ALL-STAR" just to shake things up if they're not getting equal value. That's insanity. It doesn't matter if you don't think Reyes is that good, the fact of the matter is, he's performed. He's been inconsistent, but look at his numbers. If you haven't been paying attention, he's been hitting about .330 for the last 5 weeks although playing a somewhat inconsistent SS. The losing hasn't been his fault. He's basically been the only one on the team that is hitting and his contract for the next 4-5 years is reasonable, I would even suggest that he is underpaid by today's market. You can compare Tabatha all you want. I have no idea what kind of player he is. I am sure he is not a shorstop that can steal 70 bases. But whatever. There's nothing wrong with Reyes personality. He enjoys the game, and I will bet you that his teammates have no issues with him. I am fine with that. Delgado's and Heilman's been awful. If the Mets can get anything for them, great, if not, dump em or do whatever they need to do. Betancourt, I actually like him, but again if you paid attention he actually might be worse than Heilman is this year. Heilman has been a top setup/middle relief guy for the past few years. If your point is getting rid of Delgado is addition by subtraction, you might very well be correct. But you don't give away a young star just to package him away with a terrible player, and if you do you need to get something in return. Just for argument sake, please tell me how it would be a steal for the Mets. Which one of the players is better than or equivalent to Reyes as a player and presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 CC(should be SS) Sabathia is fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Some comments: The trade with the Yankees. I am very familiar with the Farm System. giving up Cervelli and Jackson, along with Hughes and Cano is a mistake. Remove Cano and Jackson, and look for substitutes from the system, and maybe we have something to deal with. But the parameters are there. The Mets deal: It is not bad for the Mets. True, they are giving up the best player involved in that deal. But getting rid of Heilman, who can't pitch here anymore, and has not been good for the past year plus, and Delgado and his rotten contract, makes this something to consider. Peralta will do fine at SS. Not the all around talent like Reyes, but he will do fine. Barfield actually did well in the NL, and maybe a change of scenery will help him. The other guys are role players, although Betnacourt will be fine if he is not the closer. Check out last season, for example. I always liked Garko, plays several spots, can hit, has some pop, comes off the bench. Not a terrible deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Some comments: The trade with the Yankees. I am very familiar with the Farm System. giving up Cervelli and Jackson, along with Hughes and Cano is a mistake. Remove Cano and Jackson, and look for substitutes from the system, and maybe we have something to deal with. But the parameters are there. The Mets deal: It is not bad for the Mets. True, they are giving up the best player involved in that deal. But getting rid of Heilman, who can't pitch here anymore, and has not been good for the past year plus, and Delgado and his rotten contract, makes this something to consider. Peralta will do fine at SS. Not the all around talent like Reyes, but he will do fine. Barfield actually did well in the NL, and maybe a change of scenery will help him. The other guys are role players, although Betnacourt will be fine if he is not the closer. Check out last season, for example. I always liked Garko, plays several spots, can hit, has some pop, comes off the bench. Not a terrible deal. Interesting take. Dealing Cano who is currently batting .220 and Phil Hughes who has shown you nothing, thus far and has had 2 significant injuries would be a mistake. Yet Dealing Reyes for spare parts is a good deal for the Mets. Reyes sucked for the last month and a half of last year and was killed, rightly so by Met and Yankee fans. However, Cano after 2 and half months is merely in a "slump" and is more or less untouchable to certain Yankee fans. Peralta is a decent player, will never be a star. Garko is a 27 or 28 year old first basemen with below average power for the position. Delgado is in the last year of his "bad contract" Again, Betancourt has been as bad or worse than Heilman. I won't even justify Barfield with a comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Interesting take. Dealing Cano who is currently batting .220 and Phil Hughes who has shown you nothing, thus far and has had 2 significant injuries would be a mistake. Yet Dealing Reyes for spare parts is a good deal for the Mets. Reyes sucked for the last month and a half of last year and was killed, rightly so by Met and Yankee fans. However, Cano after 2 and half months is merely in a "slump" and is more or less untouchable to certain Yankee fans. Peralta is a decent player, will never be a star. Garko is a 27 or 28 year old first basemen with below average power for the position. Delgado is in the last year of his "bad contract" Again, Betancourt has been as bad or worse than Heilman. I won't even justify Barfield with a comment. You are most entitled to your opinion. I am to mine. I respect your logic - just tend to disagree with your opinion about the trade. One more thing - the Mets need a jolt in the worse way right now. This will most certainly give it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseballnut Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 That would be an asinine move, they could have had Santana for less. They'd give up on Hughes after a month? and throw in Cano?(I'm fine w/ getting rid of Cano but not w/ Hughes for an overrated guy like Sabathia) Sabathia was awful in postseason last year, we don't need another good reg season pitcher and bad postseason pitcher. There are alot of great pitchers that their first time around in the playoffs pitched like crap and the second appearence in the playoffs were lights out NOLAN RYAN / Steve Carlton / Tom Seaver on and on . If CC goes to the Red Sox or the Dodgers and pitches lights out as others have in the past that would just be too bad for the Yankees. By the way if i recall CC kicked Santana's Rear 4 times last year and the Indians bet him all 5 times they faced him . CC is a picher with 4 pitches with a plus fast ball / Santana 3 pitch pitcher who has gotten buy with a 92 / 93 fastball in the American League . But he has found out that's not working out to well in the National league were you have more dead red fast ball hitters . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 You are most entitled to your opinion. I am to mine. I respect your logic - just tend to disagree with your opinion about the trade. One more thing - the Mets need a jolt in the worse way right now. This will most certainly give it to them. I agree, the Mets are playing in a lackluster fashion. They seem like a dead and defeated team. It makes me sick to watch them as fan. They do need a jolt. I just don't think trading Reyes for a bunch of guys who are not nearly as good as he is is the answer. I think you would agree, when you trade a bonafide allstar who just turned 25 you would need to get a star back in return or at least a package of top prospects. I think that is the way GMs will look at it. I am not going to argue that Reyes might be overrated, because after the 2006 season, the hype around the guy was insane, he might not live up to that, but that doesn't mean he's not a top SS. As a matter of fact, if you were starting a team right now for the next decade. There is probably only 2 or 3 shortstops you would take ahead of Reyes. I can only think of Rollins and H. Ramirez and SS is a premium position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 at least now the title says rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I agree, the Mets are playing in a lackluster fashion. They seem like a dead and defeated team. It makes me sick to watch them as fan. They do need a jolt. I just don't think trading Reyes for a bunch of guys who are not nearly as good as he is is the answer. I think you would agree, when you trade a bonafide allstar who just turned 25 you would need to get a star back in return or at least a package of top prospects. I think that is the way GMs will look at it. I am not going to argue that Reyes might be overrated, because after the 2006 season, the hype around the guy was insane, he might not live up to that, but that doesn't mean he's not a top SS. As a matter of fact, if you were starting a team right now for the next decade. There is probably only 2 or 3 shortstops you would take ahead of Reyes. I can only think of Rollins and H. Ramirez and SS is a premium position. zeeb: I agree with you. no way mets make this "trade rumor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The way Cano has played since his new contract, I wouldn't be too upset if he were dealt. Not for a pitcher who's going to be a free agent in 4 months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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