New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[AVM]

Hope it surprised some of you.

Every game I think you're innocent...and you never are, lol

[CTM]

drats! Jvor was on the short list for me.. Anyway good shot SK/Vig. So it looks like another player went into complain. Teams player rep maybe? Who is that? I have to think it's a vigilanti, and I think I know who it might be..

As far as the scum, I have a few leans, but am going to back off slats for now, feels like a set up to me. I know I'm wifom'ing with him, but I'm going to go with my gut. I'd like hear more from Dan and SMC.

Dan for obv reasons, and SMC was curious to me the way he dragged his feet on voting for Jets Babe, and said something to the effect that he would vote Jets Babe if I voted her first. I don't know SMC to play townie like that, and if he's scum he knew she was innocent and could've blamed me for his vote..

[Dan.]

Ok. Referencing Dan's list:

JVOR voted AVM (activity level change), then Sharrow (inactivity), then Jets Babe.

JiF voted EY (for drummer), then Pac (for being JI), than slats (for inactivity)

It's worth considering who JVOR voted for, as they may have taken him out as the serial killer.

Those were my thoughts as well. I believe Vicious and Norway also seemed to be paying attention to him (questioning that time he went to the gym). And we know CTM has said many times, "EY wanted to kill JVoR first, so I had to put them on the same team" ... so I wouldn't be surprised if you decided to make good on that this time around.

[Dan.]

Here are JiF's posts dealing with his suspicions. He really was leaning heavily towards Slats. (Even when he brought up AVM, he said he mostly liked his defense.)

Good point. Slats was mr talkative first game.

Maybe newbie scum?

uvote: Pac

vote: Slats

Sorry fellas, long night. Just got a chance to catch up. Thanks for all the cheap shots, really appreciate them all. gfy. You know who you are.

Vic and JB are playing typical Vic and JB games. Whether thats a good thing or not is to be determined. This is not a defense of them, its scummy play, but its typical from them even when they are innocent.

AVM and slats are standing out to me as potential newbie mafia. Both of them are playing differently. Slats was all business last game and didnt get into the silliness that takes place. He was doing more figuring out than questioning and this game he seems to be doing the opposite. AVM's suspicious play has been beaten up and I liked his defense...for the most part.

I'm not changing my vote on slats.

I think it completely is a different approach. At this point last game, he had several posts that were trying to breakdown potential game set ups...you havent seen that from him. More questioning instead of figuring out.

Its early, but I see a clear difference in his play.

So CTM says it feels like a setup to him. Which is interesting to me because CTM has been the other person really pressuring Slats.

[Dan.]

Another random behavior I found odd:

Norway unvoted Jets Babe to keep her at two votes from lynching, then asked if we could set a response deadline for her, then made not a single comment about her again (despite making several jokey comments after she had posted her defense). Seemed strange to me that after making a show of wanting to hear her out, he never responded on the topic again. Maybe because he knew she would turn up innocent and wanted to keep his hands clean?

[Dan.]

Another interesting quote ...

I can understand suspicion on Slats because there has been a shift in his activity, but I still think AVM's shift has been much more drastic and noticeable. I gave Slats a pass the very 1st day because it was his birthday and I can understand the inactivity there. Since then he has picked it up a little bit but isn't really quite the "figuring out the pieces" that he was last game. But to be fair to him, this game thread has stalled at many points in this game in comparison to last game and there hasn't been terribly much to go on. To be honest, imo JiF should have waited a little bit to see what developed because Slats is clearly going to change his behavior in response to the accusation and we don't learn much from it because he was called out on it early on.

And now JiF is out, and I'm assuming JVoR and his buddies got him.

I'm also having trouble with JVoR's defense of Slats because I made a lot of similar points when saying I thought it was too early to tell if there was a change in his behavior. But then again, I made those points before JVoR did, and it's possible he took advantage of that by repeating the logic used by a player he knew to be innocent.

[ZachEY]

Those were my thoughts as well. I believe Vicious and Norway also seemed to be paying attention to him (questioning that time he went to the gym). And we know CTM has said many times, "EY wanted to kill JVoR first, so I had to put them on the same team" ... so I wouldn't be surprised if you decided to make good on that this time around.

Ah, but what that statement lacks is my motivation.

When I was modding the game, JVOR, a roleless townie, was the pawn of CTM and basically the towns worst enemy. CTM set up a good strategy, aided by Vic's way to early reveal.

And JVOR took the bait the entire way. So I told CTM I was going to take him down first for the good of the town. As, whichever side he was on, he was a threat to the innocents. He's since improved his play IMO. There was nothing he could do about last night obviously and played pretty solid after the first day in the last game.

[Dan.]

Here's the quote CTM was talking about ...

I'll vote for her as well to seal it. I think it's crazy that she high tailed it out of here.

Till when should we give her?

SMC didn't post again until the next afternoon, just saying why he wouldn't be around much. Definitely a little shady, but I feel like it's harder to say what was going on with SMC, since he wasn't around, whereas Norway was posting but blatantly ignoring the JB situation.

[ZachEY]

Dan, I'm not sure I wanna start attacking people who DIDN'T kill an innocent.

I don't know how far that logic gets you.

[Vicious89x]

When I was converted over in the zombie game... the scum wanted to get rid of JiF asap. This was due to his "renegade" sort of style. JiF marches to the beat of his own drum and it can be advantageous to the town and detrimental to the scum. Scum (as EY stated) will sometimes use someone to manipulate and steer the town into certain directions. Looking back at the posts I think we can lay-off on slats. It smells to much like bait IMO. A lot of us were publically questioning him and it seems like a well thought out move by scum to NK JiF.

[ZachEY]

When I was converted over in the zombie game... the scum wanted to get rid of JiF asap. This was due to his "renegade" sort of style. JiF marches to the beat of his own drum and it can be advantageous to the town and detrimental to the scum. Scum (as EY stated) will sometimes use someone to manipulate and steer the town into certain directions. Looking back at the posts I think we can lay-off on slats. It smells to much like bait IMO. A lot of us were publically questioning him and it seems like a well thought out move by scum to NK JiF.

Smart.

Be weary of confirming his innocence based on this, as this has crazy WIFOM possibilities, but you may be onto something and I don't know that I'm ready to vote for him based on this.

[Dan.]

Dan, I'm not sure I wanna start attacking people who DIDN'T kill an innocent.

I don't know how far that logic gets you.

Sure, just throwing thoughts out there since no one in particular is screaming scummy to me more than anyone else ...

[Doggin94it]

Ok. Referencing Dan's list:

JVOR voted AVM (activity level change), then Sharrow (inactivity), then Jets Babe.

JiF voted EY (for drummer), then Pac (for being JI), than slats (for inactivity)

It's worth considering who JVOR voted for, as they may have taken him out as the serial killer.

What does that mean ("Taken him out as the serial killer")?

Also, speculating on the meaning of mafia kills is well and good, but lets not go overboard - I know that when I'm mafia, I look to kill players who will either provide no information to the townies or provide misinformation (XYZ was suspicious of ABC, and XYZ was night killed - lets lynch ABC) so I can control the next day's vote. The finder will be looking at Slats at some point - I don't see JiF's death as a reason to vote for him.

[ZachEY]

What does that mean ("Taken him out as the serial killer")?

Also, speculating on the meaning of mafia kills is well and good, but lets not go overboard - I know that when I'm mafia, I look to kill players who will either provide no information to the townies or provide misinformation (XYZ was suspicious of ABC, and XYZ was night killed - lets lynch ABC) so I can control the next day's vote. The finder will be looking at Slats at some point - I don't see JiF's death as a reason to vote for him.

It means, that the serial killer may possibly be someone that JVOR pressured.

[slats]

When I was converted over in the zombie game... the scum wanted to get rid of JiF asap. This was due to his "renegade" sort of style. JiF marches to the beat of his own drum and it can be advantageous to the town and detrimental to the scum. Scum (as EY stated) will sometimes use someone to manipulate and steer the town into certain directions. Looking back at the posts I think we can lay-off on slats. It smells to much like bait IMO. A lot of us were publically questioning him and it seems like a well thought out move by scum to NK JiF.

Could be that the scum team just wanted him out of the way, or it's a clever move to get the town after me today. That would be some intricate planning, but we've seen some of that from the scum teams in the mafia games here.

What does that mean ("Taken him out as the serial killer")?

Also, speculating on the meaning of mafia kills is well and good, but lets not go overboard - I know that when I'm mafia, I look to kill players who will either provide no information to the townies or provide misinformation (XYZ was suspicious of ABC, and XYZ was night killed - lets lynch ABC) so I can control the next day's vote. The finder will be looking at Slats at some point - I don't see JiF's death as a reason to vote for him.

If he didn't already. CTM was certainly calling for that in the day phase.

What do we think about the game set-up? Was this extra NK a townie/vigilante, or a serial killer? How would that impact the way the scum team was set up? Would such a role make it less likely that there's a godfather in this game? I'd think it would, right? An extra player with NK capabilities would be a big advantage for the scum (townie or not) without the luxury of a godfather. The addition of a godfather would really tilt the scales towards them.

The reason I bring it up is because I welcome an investigation, if it hasn't happened already. I'm thinking our cop can trust his results. If there are any trackers in this game, they know I didn't go anywhere last night.

[Dan.]

What does that mean ("Taken him out as the serial killer")?

Also, speculating on the meaning of mafia kills is well and good, but lets not go overboard - I know that when I'm mafia, I look to kill players who will either provide no information to the townies or provide misinformation (XYZ was suspicious of ABC, and XYZ was night killed - lets lynch ABC) so I can control the next day's vote. The finder will be looking at Slats at some point - I don't see JiF's death as a reason to vote for him.

So going by this logic, it's also possible the serial killer had no obvious ties to JVoR and was simply trying to get rid of another player while throwing us off his scent.

[ZachEY]

What do we think about the game set-up? Was this extra NK a townie/vigilante, or a serial killer? How would that impact the way the scum team was set up? Would such a role make it less likely that there's a godfather in this game? I'd think it would, right? An extra player with NK capabilities would be a big advantage for the scum (townie or not) without the luxury of a godfather. The addition of a godfather would really tilt the scales towards them.

The reason I bring it up is because I welcome an investigation, if it hasn't happened already. I'm thinking our cop can trust his results. If there are any trackers in this game, they know I didn't go anywhere last night.

Huh?

If anything last night pretty much proved that an extra NKer was not to the benefit of the scum.

[Doggin94it]

Ok, here's what I have for Vicious. (Sorry, the formatting took longer than expected.) In parentheses I tried to include people's explanations for their votes/unvotes as close as possible to what they actually said. I know some things were jokes, but I figured it was easier to just paraphrase rather than saying, "I think this was a joke."

VICIOUS VOTING TIMELINE

Tues.

11:22 am

[Doggin94it]

It means, that the serial killer may possibly be someone that JVOR pressured.

Ah, ok. Bad grammar there

[slats]

It means, that the serial killer may possibly be someone that JVOR pressured.

Dan posted a quote showing JVoR's interest in me, here here showed more in AVM and Vic despite voting for JB.

Unvote: Sharrow

Now that he has more posts than a player who isn't even in the game, I think I can unvote him. That being said, I still would like to see him post more frequently than he has been doing so far.

Vote: Jets Babe

The more I think about it I really don't like the way she has been contradicting herself with her voting reasons. Just because being an erratic player is her "MO" doesn't really make it a reason to excuse scummy behavior. She's gone from "educated gut feeling" to "random" and still hasn't really clarified why she changed it.

Vicious might be scum but 1) He can't fake role reveal and have us believe him and 2) no offense, but the suspicion surrounding him really makes it hard to get "pied pipered" by him. He's still up there on my suspicion list, but not at the top. If he's innocent, I do ask him to focus a little more on the game. Maybe a quarter of his posts have been game related in my estimation.

The only other candidate I find reason to vote for at this juncture is AVM. He hasn't really done much to change my suspicion on him. I can't tell if his vote for Crusher was on purpose or not but I wasn't kidding when I said he didn't read carefully. It might not be much, but the people who don't need to read carefully are the ones with all the answers... I'm not fully convinced by his explanations of his changing activity either. Outside of the Norway thing last game and maybe not being especially clear with his role reveal, it seemed to me he played a pretty solid game, which makes me wonder why the drastic shift in style on his own?

[ZachEY]

Ah, ok. Bad grammar there

I know. My posts are usually riddled with bad grammar and often worse, words left out. My mind runs much, much faster than I'm capable of typing.

[ZachEY]

Interesting take Doggin.

slats, what are your thoughts on Vic?

[slats]

Train 1: Vicious

1: Doggin - Tues, 11:22am

2: CTM - Wed: 11:08am

3: Slats - Wed: 11:43am

4: SMC - Wed: 11:56am

5: Vicious Wed: 11:57 - then unvotes Wed. 12:18pm before

5: Norway 12:28pm - Slats 1:20 & Norway 3:37 unvote before:

4: EY 4:21pm - then unvotes 5:36pm before

4: Jets Babe 9:10- then unvotes 10:52 before

4: EY 11:08

Doggin, Chan unvote, train dies, Jets Babe dies.

Train 2: Jets Babe

1: AVM - Wed, 3:51pm

2: DanX Wed: 4:14

3: Norway (on both trains) Wed: 4:39

4: Slats 5:32

5: Vicious 8:39

6: Pac

7: JVoR

8: Woody - then Norway unvotes before:

8: Doggin

9: CTM

Here's the thing that sticks out to me - Vicious' train was hovering around 4-5 votes, he's acting scummy and the clubhouse leader to be lynched. Slats jumps on early, then jumps off "because he doesn't want vicious lynched while Slats is out", putting vicious back down to 4 votes. Nothing else happens for a few hours, and Norway jumps off the bandwagon and goes for Sharrow. Just after he does that, a rival train on JB gets started - and Slats and Norway soon jump on. The train on vicious becomes a memory, and JB goes down.

It looks, to me, like there's a possibility that Slats, Norway and Vicious - or at least 2 of them (vicious and either slats/norway) are scum teammates; that Slats/Norway put their initial vote on vicious as a distancing vote when his lynching had momentum, and then jumped off when it became apparent that they could get a townie lynched instead.

All of this, of course, relies on vicious being guilty. And since he was acting scummy anyway, I'm comfortable enough to vote:Vicious. Vic, if you're a townie, I'm sorry - but your death could provide us with some key info, and thats what day 1/2 lynches are all about. You've got to go.

I'll check in again Monday night.

I'll only speak for myself here. I jumped on Vic early when he started having a hissy fit to see where it went, and it petered out pretty quickly. I unvoted before I started getting ready to go to work because I knew it would likely be a few hours before I could get back on. Speed lynches hurt the last game, didn't want to be a part of one in this game.

The timeline suggests that if Norway and I teaming up, we're not very clever about it. Why have Norway progress the train only to have us both jump off so quickly? Wouldn't we've wanted to completely distance one of ourselves from there?

The times also don't suggest that I jumped off because I found a townie we could lynch instead. I jumped two and a half hours before JB got her first vote.

[slats]

Huh?

If anything last night pretty much proved that an extra NKer was not to the benefit of the scum.

We know from the last game that a vigilante can be manipulated by a clever mafioso. In online tutorials about mafia games like this, the vigilante role is described as one potentially more destructive to the town than the scum. We probably got very lucky with that hit last night.

Interesting take Doggin.

slats, what are your thoughts on Vic?

I posted above as you were posting.

I'd have to go back and read his posts again. I can tell you at the time that I felt his pain as never having the opportunity to be mafia, and bought into the fact that he might be stressed about his house/move, etc. He flipped out, but seemed to find his bearings again. I'm not going to say that he doesn't bear watching, though.

[Vicious89x]

I'm going to request once again that if a train starts and I'm not on in time please allow me to have a say before the hammer is thrown down. thanks

[Sharrow]

3 hours at the gym is a long time.

Dude, you need to calm the crap down. It's not like I posted, ran to my gym, ran on the treadmill, lifted weights, ran home, took a shower and posted. Do you want confirmation I went to the gym or something? Dan X knows me in real life you can take his word on it. You want to call my school gym? I swiped in so i'm sure there's record of it there.

For some reason, I don't think that exchange fits Vic and JVOR being teammates. Then again, I guess I could be underestimating their craftiness.

[WoodyPaige]

Dan posted a quote showing JVoR's interest in me, here here showed more in AVM and Vic despite voting for JB.

AVM needs to be investigated sooner than later. I think he could very well be our serial killer/vigilante. JVOR kept going after him hard even when he changed his vote. JVOR kept reiterating his suspicion of AVM such as in the post you quoted.

[Pac]

I'm going to request once again that if a train starts and I'm not on in time please allow me to have a say before the hammer is thrown down. thanks

This is the 2nd time you've thrown this little statement out there... what can you say 1 vote short of death that you can't say right now? Something you want to share?

[WoodyPaige]

For some reason, I don't think that exchange fits Vic and JVOR being teammates. Then again, I guess I could be underestimating their craftiness.

Distancing?

[Vicious89x]

This is the 2nd time you've thrown this little statement out there... what can you say 1 vote short of death that you can't say right now? Something you want to share?

Fascinating statement.

The last person who said that was JVoR. Who happened to be scum

People should be allowed a "last post" no matter what. It can save townies.

[Sharrow]

This is the 2nd time you've thrown this little statement out there... what can you say 1 vote short of death that you can't say right now? Something you want to share?

If he has a role, why would we want him sharing it now?

[Pac]

Fascinating statement.

The last person who said that was JVoR. Who happened to be scum

People should be allowed a "last post" no matter what. It can save townies.

Fascinating in what sense?

I merely wanted to know why you keep intimating that you have pearls of wisdom to share but you'll only do it at the 11th hour.

[Sharrow]

Distancing?

Pretty good job if it was.

[Pac]

If he has a role, why would we want him sharing it now?

actually I'm fishing for another vic explosion... last one was entertaining.

[Vicious89x]

Fascinating in what sense?

I merely wanted to know why you keep intimating that you have pearls of wisdom to share but you'll only do it at the 11th hour.

Everyone knows the only people itching to know "information" is scum.

It cost us last game and I'm asking as part of the protocol for the town. I could be roleless, I could be Peter Petrelli, whatever.