New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[CTM]

Last game was my first, I stayed in the lower 5 of post counts the entire time, and I had a townie role so I didn't want to draw attention to myself. Add that to the fact that I hadn't really posted solidly at JN in over 6 months, and most of you guys weren't around then, it helps knowing people a little better now.

Granted..

how do you explain JVOR pushing for you like he did to sharrow?

Was this distancing?

[AVM]

Granted..

how do you explain JVOR pushing for you like he did to sharrow?

Was this distancing?

Honestly I can't. All I can maybe say in defense of myself is A) was he prodding Sharrow from the very beginning last game? and Would a player such as JvoR go with the same tactic knowing who isn't on his team? Most of the time the answer is yes, admittedly.

[Dan.]

Going back to my theory on over anxious scum looking for the easy day 1 Jets babe lynch, notice who is in one of the hotspots.. (2/3 of the way through the train)

Dan, slats, vicious are all around the first hot spot, 1/3 through..

And AVM started it.

I think we should coalesce around these 4 guys and if we miss, the vig should shoot another one of them..

CTM, stop toying with my feelings! Haha but for real, get your story straight. One minute, we're the world's newbiest scum team, eagerly shuffling together after JB as a pack (with JVoR not far behind), and the next minute you say we're "too smart" to be throwing ourselves out there so blatantly.

And once again, since you pointed to JVoR's comments about JB as the same "passive" pushing without "committing" that I supposedly have been doing, I have to ask once more how many people here have "committed" to anyone being scum yet. Have you committed to anyone being scum? Hmmm, interesting. I think your pushing of myself, Slats, and AVM has been equally "passive", considering you keep "bringing the conversation back to us" yet have not committed to any of us being scum. Personally, I find this completely understandable, since the point of this game is that townies start out knowing nothing and therefore end up speaking hypothetically and making dubious votes. But you're the one who needs commitment so badly, and you're honestly as "passive" as the rest of us.

In the train you pointed out, I think I'd have to be most suspicious of Slats because he voted after me, using a lot of similar arguments against Jets Babe. Which is pretty much the same thing JVoR did, too. Easy for them to repeat what has already been said by a player they know to be innocent, which also makes it tough for me to argue against them.

[Pac]

Woody, JT... what are your takes on what's going on?

I'm tired and going to sleep... I look forward to the 3-4 posts I'll have to review when I wake up.

[Doggin94it]

vote AVM

he was my first suspicion, and I'm inclined to let Slats and Dan X play out for another day or 2..

It's good that the vig/serial killer nailed JVOR last night, but at the same time, it makes today's hunt more difficult due to a lower % of scum and also because we don't have a a vote train on scum to review like we would've had if we lynched him ourselves..

Are you voting him because you think he's scummy, or because his lynch will provide us with information.

Right now, the top of my suspicion list reads:

Pac

Vicious

Norway

Slats

AVM

CTM (if vicious is guilty, that temper tantrum interaction concerns me)

and our quiet folks, mainly Sharrow and Woody (both of whom are naturally quiet, which makes for good cover)

Out of all of them, the player whose death gives me the most new info - guilty or innocent - is Vicious. That's why my vote stays where it is.

(BTW, just got back from Boston. Brother in law ran the marathon in 3:15)

[Doggin94it]

And your thoughts on SMC creating and maintaining ROBOCOP?

I think he's trying to sell us some obvious BS.

Agreed. No chance of a role like that, IMO. Way too powerful for the town.

[ZachEY]

Agreed. No chance of a role like that, IMO. Way too powerful for the town.

So, mistake... or BS for sale?

[Doggin94it]

OK, going to bed now. Anyone care to suggest a player whose lynch gives us more info than Vicious? I'm more than willing to listen

[Doggin94it]

So, mistake... or BS for sale?

I'd say BS for sale - but that's how I read SMC last game, too

[CTM]

CTM, stop toying with my feelings! Haha but for real, get your story straight. One minute, we're the world's newbiest scum team, eagerly shuffling together after JB as a pack (with JVoR not far behind), and the next minute you say we're "too smart" to be throwing ourselves out there so blatantly.

And once again, since you pointed to JVoR's comments about JB as the same "passive" pushing without "committing" that I supposedly have been doing, I have to ask once more how many people here have "committed" to anyone being scum yet. Have you committed to anyone being scum? Hmmm, interesting. I think your pushing of myself, Slats, and AVM has been equally "passive", considering you keep "bringing the conversation back to us" yet have not committed to any of us being scum. Personally, I find this completely understandable, since the point of this game is that townies start out knowing nothing and therefore end up speaking hypothetically and making dubious votes. But you're the one who needs commitment so badly, and you're honestly as "passive" as the rest of us.

No, I'm not. I have repeatedly committed to the idea that you, slats, AVM and SMC are my favorites for scum. The difference between that and making leading statements might be subtle, but it's there. I think there's a better chance you guys are scum as compared to everybody else based on what we now know. You and jvor weren't willing to commit even that far and instead made observations that would help people come to their own commitments. "kind of odd that she just dissappeared", "what benefit is she to the town if she appears scummy anyway"

In the train you pointed out, I think I'd have to be most suspicious of Slats because he voted after me, using a lot of similar arguments against Jets Babe. Which is pretty much the same thing JVoR did, too. Easy for them to repeat what has already been said by a player they know to be innocent, which also makes it tough for me to argue against them.

I'd love to see you and slats review one another..

[Dan.]

I just found something that sort of gives me the creeps. Maybe I'm overreacting, but in addition to JVoR repeating the arguments I made against Jets Babe, he also repeated things I'd said early about Slats, using them to defend him. If the last time was any indication, I'd be inclined to think that his doing this means my early reaction to Slats was wrong ...

I'm also keeping an eye on Slats ... the one who kept blindly listing people's post counts last game, regardless of post content, yet now has one of the lowest post counts in this thread. If it didn't matter to him last game when people said they were working or provided other explanations for not being able to post so frequently, we're now simply supposed to accept that he woke up late today? However, I will hold off on voting for him for a couple more hours because yesterday was his birthday, which in my opinion is a legitimate excuse for not posting as much. I will be suspicious if the lack of posts continues today, though.

Hmmm, I'm not sure what I think of this. It's very, very early in the game. Is this really a big departure from the way he played at the beginning of the last game? I'm not certain what kind of puzzle he could possibly be solving at this point, based on the very scant information we have.

I'm going to go back and read some of his earlier posts from the last game ...

Eh, in looking back at the last game, it's really hard to compare. Slats didn't really start speaking up until everyone jumped on him for the "maybe there's a serial killer" comment, at which point he spent a lot of time defending himself, going after anyone who questioned him, and listing people's post counts. By the time people backed off him, a lot of discussion was happening about several people, so there was a lot more information out there. I don't think Slats really got into his groove until later in the game, so it's hard for me to say that his behavior so early in the game right now is very different.

I can understand suspicion on Slats because there has been a shift in his activity, but I still think AVM's shift has been much more drastic and noticeable. I gave Slats a pass the very 1st day because it was his birthday and I can understand the inactivity there. Since then he has picked it up a little bit but isn't really quite the "figuring out the pieces" that he was last game. But to be fair to him, this game thread has stalled at many points in this game in comparison to last game and there hasn't been terribly much to go on. To be honest, imo JiF should have waited a little bit to see what developed because Slats is clearly going to change his behavior in response to the accusation and we don't learn much from it because he was called out on it early on.

Am I drawing too much from this? I'd say JVoR seemed to be encouraging me, both that my feelings were right about JB and that Slats didn't warrant as much suspicion. If anyone could possibly get me to fall for this, it would probably be JVoR, so I am worried. It might also be that this was simply one part of getting me not to suspect him, but this repetition of my earlier comments is really similar to what he did with my comments about Jets Babe ...

[CTM]

Are you voting him because you think he's scummy, or because his lynch will provide us with information.

Right now, the top of my suspicion list reads:

Pac

Vicious

Norway

Slats

AVM

CTM (if vicious is guilty, that temper tantrum interaction concerns me)

and our quiet folks, mainly Sharrow and Woody (both of whom are naturally quiet, which makes for good cover)

Out of all of them, the player whose death gives me the most new info - guilty or innocent - is Vicious. That's why my vote stays where it is.

(BTW, just got back from Boston. Brother in law ran the marathon in 3:15)

Both,,, My initial read of AVM was scummy, and he narrows down the Slats/Dan X/AVM window I'm preoccupied with..

re: Me... my provoking of Vicious was intended to set a trap. I assumed that if he had not taken the bait and remained calm I could be assured of his guilt. Now, he took the bait, but he also over-reacted, so I've got it as a null read. Vic may very well be guilty, but he's not my favorite. I see your point about information gathering however, since he did have a competing train on him. That being said, maybe it's our fault that we are over a week into this game and have had 2 vote trains thus far..

WITH THAT, I implore people VOTE!

[ZachEY]

I'd say BS for sale - but that's how I read SMC last game, too

Yes, but he did offer a real role. One that I was pretty confident existed.

I'm not sure I believe in:

I just learned there's a new movie coming out in 2010 by Darren Arronofsky. That should be pretty cool?

[CTM]

[CTM]

[CTM]

[ZachEY]

I just found something that sort of gives me the creeps. Maybe I'm overreacting, but in addition to JVoR repeating the arguments I made against Jets Babe, he also repeated things I'd said early about Slats, using them to defend him. If the last time was any indication, I'd be inclined to think that his doing this means my early reaction to Slats was wrong ...

Am I drawing too much from this? I'd say JVoR seemed to be encouraging me, both that my feelings were right about JB and that Slats didn't warrant as much suspicion. If anyone could possibly get me to fall for this, it would probably be JVoR, so I am worried. It might also be that this was simply one part of getting me not to suspect him, but this repetition of my earlier comments is really similar to what he did with my comments about Jets Babe ...

Or, is it a clever ruse by you and JVOR to eventually throw slats under the bus, which was accelerated by the fact that he was killed last night?

Very interesting..........

[Dan.]

No, I'm not. I have repeatedly committed to the idea that you, slats, AVM and SMC are my favorites for scum. The difference between that and making leading statements might be subtle, but it's there. I think there's a better chance you guys are scum as compared to everybody else based on what we now know. You and jvor weren't willing to commit even that far and instead made observations that would help people come to their own commitments. "kind of odd that she just dissappeared", "what benefit is she to the town if she appears scummy anyway"

I'd love to see you and slats review one another..

This sentence makes me laugh. You have committed to the idea that we are your favorites for scum. Did I not also commit to the idea that Jets Babe was my favorite for scum?

It's absolutely outlandish to pretend I didn't, and to act like the sample statements you selected above were all that I said about her.

At this point, I don't even know what to say to you and your lapses in logic. You seem to have made a snap interpretation of my behavior to the point that it's coloring the way you're looking at (and trying to redefine) everything.

[CTM]

Am I drawing too much from this? I'd say JVoR seemed to be encouraging me, both that my feelings were right about JB and that Slats didn't warrant as much suspicion. If anyone could possibly get me to fall for this, it would probably be JVoR, so I am worried. It might also be that this was simply one part of getting me not to suspect him, but this repetition of my earlier comments is really similar to what he did with my comments about Jets Babe ...

Above I qouted a post of JVOR defending slats at the expense of AVM. Slats also seems to be keen to pushing the idea of no godfather. It's possible that scummy Jvor was protecting a mafia power role here, not thinking he'd get NK'd by a rogue killer.

We need to go back to the last game and see if he even mentioned EY who was his godfather in that game..

In any event I am warming to lynching slats again, and begging the vig to shoot AVM is slats is innocent..

[CTM]

This sentence makes me laugh. You have committed to the idea that we are your favorites for scum. Did I not also commit to the idea that Jets Babe was my favorite for scum?

It's absolutely outlandish to pretend I didn't, and to act like the sample statements you selected above were all that I said about her.

At this point, I don't even know what to say to you and your lapses in logic. You seem to have made a snap interpretation of my behavior to the point that it's coloring the way you're looking at (and trying to redefine) everything.

quote it ...

and also note that it was note just I, but Ey who noticed your continuing redirection of the convo to Jets Babe..

If you are going to tell me that JVOR's prodding doesn't look suspicious, particularly now that he's been proven quilty, you are full of it. I have those notes about JVOR in my excel doc from a few days ago. I have similiar for you and slats..

[Dan.]

Or, is it a clever ruse by you and JVOR to eventually throw slats under the bus, which was accelerated by the fact that he was killed last night?

Very interesting..........

Right, by offering to give him the benefit of the doubt in response to other people raising suspicions of him.

By not leaping aboard the Slats train immediately, even though both you and CTM were making it obvious it was either me or him in your books.

But, I could accept, and even be flattered by, your notion that this is all an elaborate setup and I'm a very patient mafia member ... if it weren't for all the "over-anxious newbie scum" crap that's simultaneously being used against me. Make up your freaking minds, people!

[CTM]

Right, by offering to give him the benefit of the doubt in response to other people raising suspicions of him.

By not leaping aboard the Slats train immediately, even though both you and CTM were making it obvious it was either me or him in your books.

But, I could accept, and even be flattered by, your notion that this is all an elaborate setup and I'm a very patient mafia member ... if it weren't for all the "over-anxious newbie scum" crap that's simultaneously being used against me. Make up your freaking minds, people!

this is the whole doggin/smc debate about to get replayed.

And while he was wrong that time, I agree with doggin overall. Smart people sometimes do dumb things..

[Vicious89x]

Above I qouted a post of JVOR defending slats at the expense of AVM. Slats also seems to be keen to pushing the idea of no godfather. It's possible that scummy Jvor was protecting a mafia power role here, not thinking he'd get NK'd by a rogue killer.

We need to go back to the last game and see if he even mentioned EY who was his godfather in that game..

In any event I am warming to lynching slats again, and begging the vig to shoot AVM is slats is innocent..

Slats, like EY and other, could be very valuable to the town. I'm telling I really think we're wasting our time with slats. I'm open to being voted on if that's the way the town feels but all I can say is you're wasting your time there as well. IMO we gain just as much from lynching SMC as we do myself. He's experienced, intelligent and the robocop role comment seems suspicious. Also cast the hammer on JB after staying away from it the entire time.

It makes me look bad, it makes me look terrible, but

Vote: SMC

[ZachEY]

Right, by offering to give him the benefit of the doubt in response to other people raising suspicions of him.

By not leaping aboard the Slats train immediately, even though both you and CTM were making it obvious it was either me or him in your books.

But, I could accept, and even be flattered by, your notion that this is all an elaborate setup and I'm a very patient mafia member ... if it weren't for all the "over-anxious newbie scum" crap that's simultaneously being used against me. Make up your freaking minds, people!

I actually agree with what you said. It's just that you said it yourself, so I've got to question it.

I'm leaning towards slats over you, but I'm still focusing on ROBOCOP.

[ZachEY]

Also, Dan, how do you feel about ROBOCOP?

[Dan.]

quote it ...

and also note that it was note just I, but Ey who noticed your continuing redirection of the convo to Jets Babe..

If you are going to tell me that JVOR's prodding doesn't look suspicious, particularly now that he's been proven quilty, you are full of it. I have those notes about JVOR in my excel doc from a few days ago. I have similiar for you and slats..

Tell me that his "prodding" isn't suspicious to you because you felt (rather, you magically knew for sure - which in itself is weird) that Jets Babe was innocent.

Is that same "prodding" - the "prodding" you are now doing to other players - as suspicious when it's targeting a player you think looks suspicious? Of course not.

Or are you simply suspicious of all people who "prod", and those who say nothing but pop in to vote here and there look okay to you?

I have the same gut reaction, and I think it's silly to deny that this isn't affecting the way you're seeing things. When people see other players putting pressure on people they believe to be innocent, it looks a lot more suspicious than when they see players putting pressure on people they believe to be guilty. Furthermore, all players who are at the forefront going after people end up eventually looking suspicious when that person is lynched.

Which you will certainly find out for yourself if you succeed in getting me lynched. Watch how many people start using the same arguments against you for continually redirecting the conversation to an innocent player ...

[slats]

Going back to my theory on over anxious scum looking for the easy day 1 Jets babe lynch, notice who is in one of the hotspots.. (2/3 of the way through the train)

Dan, slats, vicious are all around the first hot spot, 1/3 through..

And AVM started it.

I think we should coalesce around these 4 guys and if we miss, the vig should shoot another one of them..

I'm getting tired of this. I'm starting to see why Vic reacted the way he did.

In the last game, this is how the godfather EY hoped to use viglante SMC. Lynch an innocent player during the day, have the vig take out another, plus have his own NK. This is really starting to read like the same script to me.

Starting the JB train when you put the nail in the coffin to move the game along makes me the scummy one?

That's right. Those earlier in the train are guilty, the guy who dropped the hammer is innocent. You see it all the time. Don't for get EY's sarcastic TRUST ME post regarding JB. He didn't vote for her, but sure made his feelings clear.

I think your pushing of myself, Slats, and AVM has been equally "passive", considering you keep "bringing the conversation back to us" yet have not committed to any of us being scum. Personally, I find this completely understandable, since the point of this game is that townies start out knowing nothing and therefore end up speaking hypothetically and making dubious votes. But you're the one who needs commitment so badly, and you're honestly as "passive" as the rest of us.

He does have one line of thinking. Somehow we rushed on JB, today CTM's imploring us to vote, vote, vote! And it's clear who he wants us to vote for.

[slats]

In any event I am warming to lynching slats again, and begging the vig to shoot AVM is slats is innocent..

Again man, same script. Lynch one innocent and NK another. Even has the foreshadowing of "if slats is innocent." You know why? Because I am. He wouldn't want that to derail his plan. I'm really thinking CTM knows it for certain, too.

[Bleedin Green]

Vote Count:

Vicious89x (2) - Doggin94it, SMC

AVM (2) - Pac2566, CTM

SMC (2) - EY, Vicious89x

Pac2566 (1) - AVM

With 13 players remaining, it takes 7 votes to cut.

[WoodyPaige]

Above I qouted a post of JVOR defending slats at the expense of AVM. Slats also seems to be keen to pushing the idea of no godfather. It's possible that scummy Jvor was protecting a mafia power role here, not thinking he'd get NK'd by a rogue killer.

We need to go back to the last game and see if he even mentioned EY who was his godfather in that game..

In any event I am warming to lynching slats again, and begging the vig to shoot AVM is slats is innocent..

That might not be possible because I think there's a good chance that AVM is the vig/ serial killer.

[ZachEY]

I'm going to bed.

Enjoy:

wUnMF7dV86k

[Dan.]

Also, Dan, how do you feel about ROBOCOP?

I feel that the ROBOCOP suggestion was crap, but SMC also said a lot of ridiculous things the last game. So I wouldn't base a case against him on that alone, but something I mentioned before was that his attitude towards voting has been completely different. Last game, he was vocal to the point of hysteria and hopping from train to train like a madman, and this game he's been noticeably reserved.

I would like to hear more from him before casting a vote, though. As I'm also leaning towards Slats based on the creepster JVoR stuff.

[AVM]

I'm getting tired of this. I'm starting to see why Vic reacted the way he did.

In the last game, this is how the godfather EY hoped to use viglante SMC. Lynch an innocent player during the day, have the vig take out another, plus have his own NK. This is really starting to read like the same script to me.

That's right. Those earlier in the train are guilty, the guy who dropped the hammer is innocent. You see it all the time. Don't for get EY's sarcastic TRUST ME post regarding JB. He didn't vote for her, but sure made his feelings clear.

He does have one line of thinking. Somehow we rushed on JB, today CTM's imploring us to vote, vote, vote! And it's clear who he wants us to vote for.

I know it DOES happen all the time--I did it to our doc last game. However, it hurt me when EY started the train against me, I felt like -- and CTM, because the game was slowed down, has avoided it. Given in that example, EY started the train against Norway(the godfather), and I(townie roleblocker) finished him off....

The push to vote is fishy to me too, but I'm the one being voted for so its not like I'm unbiased either.

[Dan.]

That might not be possible because I think there's a good chance that AVM is the vig/ serial killer.

AVM is my best bet for that, too. But in that case, we would get confirmation that AVM does have that role, as he wouldn't be able to get benched.

[CTM]

Tell me that his "prodding" isn't suspicious to you because you felt (rather, you magically knew for sure - which in itself is weird) that Jets Babe was innocent.

Is that same "prodding" - the "prodding" you are now doing to other players - as suspicious when it's targeting a player you think looks suspicious? Of course not.

Or are you simply suspicious of all people who "prod", and those who say nothing but pop in to vote here and there look okay to you?

I have the same gut reaction, and I think it's silly to deny that this isn't affecting the way you're seeing things. When people see other players putting pressure on people they believe to be innocent, it looks a lot more suspicious than when they see players putting pressure on people they believe to be guilty. Furthermore, all players who are at the forefront going after people end up eventually looking suspicious when that person is lynched.

Which you will certainly find out for yourself if you succeed in getting me lynched. Watch how many people start using the same arguments against you for continually redirecting the conversation to an innocent player ...

But I'm not doing that...

I'm voting AVM, and ok with voting slats or SMC.. I'm not fixated on 1 person. The reason my dialogue is going on with you si that youa re the one challenging me on it currently..