New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[Jets Things]

Unvote: Vicious

<sigh>

[Pac]

sensory overload.. too much info to process while still looking busy for the peering eyes of my co-workers. I certainly plan on re-reading in detail once I get home but for now it's nice to see the game is in full swing. hopefully Vic is on the up and up but since he's been chomping at the bit to get this out for about a week I'm inclined to believe him.

[Dan.]

How?

And also, if vic is counter claimed, our real cop now has a bulleyes on his back, and the doctor, whose now protecting Vic or the counterclaimant, now stands the same odds of being nightkilled tonight as the "good" chance you guys are ascribing to the real cop.

In other words, if you want the real cop to counter claim cause he might very well be killed tonight without protection, you must trecognize that the same thing applies to the doctor. And if the doc dies, the real cop dies next, regardless of who it is..

I know the same thing applies to the doctor, but he's already putting his life on the line to protect Vicious. If there is a real cop, I think he should give himself a chance of being protected.

Math is not my favorite. But I feel like 13 players minus the remaining scum, with potentially two kills ... will kill 20% of the town tonight? That seems pretty high to me.

But I guess another cop coming forward would make himself more likely to be a part of that 20% ... although the scum might leave him alive in the hopes that we'll lynch him ... haha, I'm going to take a brain break and try to figure that out. I see where you're coming from.

[Vicious89x]

How?

And also, if vic is counter claimed, our real cop now has a bulleyes on his back, and the doctor, whose now protecting Vic or the counterclaimant, now stands the same odds of being nightkilled tonight as the "good" chance you guys are ascribing to the real cop.

In other words, if you want the real cop to counter claim cause he might very well be killed tonight without protection, you must trecognize that the same thing applies to the doctor. And if the doc dies, the real cop dies next, regardless of who it is..

At that point of the counterclaim it's clear the town makes a choice on the lynch. I'm 1000% positive that if a counter claimant does come up I'll be able to prove that I'm innocent. Plus at this point the mafia would have to do A LOT to try and come out on top of this.

[Dan.]

Exactly.

And let me ask everyone this. If Vic is scum, and you are his team mates, would you be hoping the real cop counterclaimed him right now or hoping he wasn't counterclaimed?

Personally, I'd be hoping for a counterclaim so I'd have my man..

Ok, I got it. This is true.

I believe Vicious for now anyway. If he's lying, I really don't want our real cop to accidentally get shot in the night, but I suppose that would have been a risk anyway, since I'm assuming the doctor would have continued to protect himself if there had been no role claims. And if a real cop is dead tomorrow morning, we lynch Vicious.

[AVM]

At that point of the counterclaim it's clear the town makes a choice on the lynch. I'm 1000% positive that if a counter claimant does come up I'll be able to prove that I'm innocent. Plus at this point the mafia would have to do A LOT to try and come out on top of this.

...??

[Vicious89x]

...??

What, I threw an extra zero in cause I know I'm the real finder. Point is we'll cross the bridge if there's a counter claimant.

[CTM]

Ok, I got it. This is true.

I believe Vicious for now anyway. If he's lying, I really don't want our real cop to accidentally get shot in the night, but I suppose that would have been a risk anyway, since I'm assuming the doctor would have continued to protect himself if there had been no role claims. And if a real cop is dead tomorrow morning, we lynch Vicious.

I believe him too. But everyone should remember the absurdity of his actions should a counter claimant appear in the near future..

[AVM]

What, I threw an extra zero in cause I know I'm the real finder. Point is we'll cross the bridge if there's a counter claimant.

Haha, no, I meant how can you be positive you can prove yourself with only one nights of work to protect you?

**As for the number, I go to ECU. I cant count...no worries

[WoodyPaige]

Trying to catch up now. I hate you people one the day I end up sleeping late you *******s decide to actually play.

[slats]

Exactly.

And let me ask everyone this. If Vic is scum, and you are his team mates, would you be hoping the real cop counterclaimed him right now or hoping he wasn't counterclaimed?

Personally, I'd be hoping for a counterclaim so I'd have my man..

Scum successfully faking the cop role could do some damage. A counter-claim would mess that up and create a new firestorm. If Vic were scum and a "real cop" role revealed, it's true that they'd NK that real cop sooner rather than later, but they'd also lose Vic pretty quickly, and they're already down one team member.

So if Vic's lying, a role reveal would probably result in losing Vic and the "real cop." That's a good trade for the town, and a bad one for the scum. That's why any counter claim at this point would have to be the real cop - and why it would be the best play for the town for him to reveal. A fake counter claim would guarantee that the scum team would be down to two players within two days - and they have to deal with a SK/vig, too. Too great a risk.

If there's a "real cop" in the house, let's hear it.

[Vicious89x]

I believe him too. But everyone should remember the absurdity of his actions should a counter claimant appear in the near future..

Or you're setting me up.

Point is if there's a counter claimant I guarantee it's scum. That's a victory for the town if we get one IMO. I'd bet my livelihood on it.

[Vicious89x]

Scum successfully faking the cop role could do some damage. A counter-claim would mess that up and create a new firestorm. If Vic were scum and a "real cop" role revealed, it's true that they'd NK that real cop sooner rather than later, but they'd also lose Vic pretty quickly, and they're already down one team member.

So if Vic's lying, a role reveal would probably result in losing Vic and the "real cop." That's a good trade for the town, and a bad one for the scum. That's why any counter claim at this point would have to be the real cop - and why it would be the best play for the town for him to reveal. A fake counter claim would guarantee that the scum team would be down to two players within two days - and they have to deal with a SK/vig, too. Too great a risk.

If there's a "real cop" in the house, let's hear it.

Here's my point we gotta think that CTM is throwing out the zombie game example, if they counter claim (which they won't) here's what would have to go down.

- Get the town to lynch me

- I flip innocent

- The go into NP and put out a NK (or no action)

- Have to give up another mafia member in order to vet himself, downing them 2 scum already. Additionally, leaving the town one member up because of the no action

It's a very, VERY risky play.

[WoodyPaige]

I'm gonna vote:AVM. I still think hes the best bet for the SK.

I was thinking of Vicious or Slats untill Vicious' role claim which I trust FOR NOW.

[Dan.]

Or you're setting me up.

Point is if there's a counter claimant I guarantee it's scum. That's a victory for the town if we get one IMO. I'd bet my livelihood on it.

What do you (and other people) think about Doggin, being the primary person pressuring you and then strongly advocating that a real cop reveal himself?

[Doggin94it]

Why? Again, look no further then the zombie game. No kill after vicious revealed, he actually lynches scum the next day, and I counter claim cop and get him lynched the next day.

I'll start trusting vic completely the minute he serves up the last confirmed scum. I believe his claim, but I'm not going to blindy trust him because of all the suspicion surrounding it..

Yes - the delayed counterclaim hurt the town. If you had countered the minute Vicious claimed, the town would have been much better off.

[Doggin94it]

Exactly.

And let me ask everyone this. If Vic is scum, and you are his team mates, would you be hoping the real cop counterclaimed him right now or hoping he wasn't counterclaimed?

Personally, I'd be hoping for a counterclaim so I'd have my man..

Hoping for no counterclaim, so vic survives a bit longer and gets a terrific chance to muddy the waters. Plus, the doc is confirmed tied up protecting my mafia teammate from the apparent vig/sk, and there's still a chance we take out the doctor or cop at night (essentially, we get all the benefit of a counterclaim with none of the downside). If I'm mafia, I'm begging for the real cop to shutup

[Jets Things]

What do you (and other people) think about Doggin, being the primary person pressuring you and then strongly advocating that a real cop reveal himself?

Doggin should always be one of the first people investigated. That being said, I haven't come across anything this game to think he's scum.

[Doggin94it]

At that point of the counterclaim it's clear the town makes a choice on the lynch. I'm 1000% positive that if a counter claimant does come up I'll be able to prove that I'm innocent. Plus at this point the mafia would have to do A LOT to try and come out on top of this.

Incorrect. If a counterclaim comes up, we leave you both alive until one of you claims a guilty party is actually innocent or an innocent party is guilty. Until that happens, you're both worth more alive than dead.

[Vicious89x]

What do you (and other people) think about Doggin, being the primary person pressuring you and then strongly advocating that a real cop reveal himself?

I personally think the cop should just be out front from the get go, some people hate the strategy... I prefer it. I wasn't going to do it but from the onset it was clear people had a bulls eye painted on my forehead.

I've kept my vote on SMC because I know he's been on this site elsewhere and yet has not visited this thread since putting a vote and stepping out.

And I'm certain he'll show up soon after this.

[Vicious89x]

Doggin should always be one of the first people investigated. That being said, I haven't come across anything this game to think he's scum.

I actually agree that Doggin isn't scum this time around, mainly because I see his frame of thinking. I know he's aggressive, but this time he was wrong on me.

I'm open to being TOLD who to investigate but I have a list of 4 people that I'll be checking out.

[WoodyPaige]

Yes - the delayed counterclaim hurt the town. If you had countered the minute Vicious claimed, the town would have been much better off.

FWIW at that point Vicious was the real cop.

[CTM]

Hoping for no counterclaim, so vic survives a bit longer and gets a terrific chance to muddy the waters. Plus, the doc is confirmed tied up protecting my mafia teammate from the apparent vig/sk, and there's still a chance we take out the doctor or cop at night (essentially, we get all the benefit of a counterclaim with none of the downside). If I'm mafia, I'm begging for the real cop to shutup

I don'[t understand what's muddied. If vic is lieing he will be caught, and his actions essentially ignored.

I'd be hoping for the counter claim, then I as scum, know who the real cop is. I also know that town will not lynch either, then I, due to the fact that I have more information, can vet my cop better as day 2 roles around and both cops claim the other is scum. (also allowing the spread of misinformation) With this course of action I have guaranteed myself at a minimum to trade scum under pressure for cop. With no counter claim, I may not get anything out of it..

[Jets Things]

I actually agree that Doggin isn't scum this time around, mainly because I see his frame of thinking. I know he's aggressive, but this time he was wrong on me.

I'm open to being TOLD who to investigate but I have a list of 4 people that I'll be checking out.

Don't leave yourself open to manipulation by anyone. Do your own research and investigate whomever you think warrants one.

[CTM]

Incorrect. If a counterclaim comes up, we leave you both alive until one of you claims a guilty party is actually innocent or an innocent party is guilty. Until that happens, you're both worth more alive than dead.

so the real cop becomes outed and we don't act on it until he finds another scum? Vic would still be able to spread misinformation adn the outed cop can be read to guess who he's going to investigate

Again, whats the benefit to the town.

[CTM]

I actually agree that Doggin isn't scum this time around, mainly because I see his frame of thinking. I know he's aggressive, but this time he was wrong on me.

I'm open to being TOLD who to investigate but I have a list of 4 people that I'll be checking out.

No, and you shouldn't tell us who either as the scum would just kill them tonight..

[Vicious89x]

Don't leave yourself open to manipulation by anyone. Do your own research and investigate whomever you think warrants one.

That's how I'd prefer to operate.

Clearly If I get some good news back I'm going to state it publicly as soon as NP is over.

[Doggin94it]

I actually agree that Doggin isn't scum this time around, mainly because I see his frame of thinking. I know he's aggressive, but this time he was wrong on me.

I'm open to being TOLD who to investigate but I have a list of 4 people that I'll be checking out.

Don't be "told" who to investigate. Stay unpredictable.

Also, don't necessarily investigate the "scummiest" looking players. We can afford to lose a townie or two to mis-lynches. We cannot afford to have mafia flying under the radar.

[Doggin94it]

FWIW at that point Vicious was the real cop.

Yes - and if Chan had counterclaimed at that point, none of what followed would have been possible.

[Vicious89x]

Don't be "told" who to investigate. Stay unpredictable.

Also, don't necessarily investigate the "scummiest" looking players. We can afford to lose a townie or two to mis-lynches. We cannot afford to have mafia flying under the radar.

Yup. Like I said I have some in mind and am hoping to turn a guilty tonight.

[Doggin94it]

Don't leave yourself open to manipulation by anyone. Do your own research and investigate whomever you think warrants one.

Don't be "told" who to investigate. Stay unpredictable.

Also, don't necessarily investigate the "scummiest" looking players. We can afford to lose a townie or two to mis-lynches. We cannot afford to have mafia flying under the radar.

[Jets Things]

That's how I'd prefer to operate.

Clearly If I get some good news back I'm going to state it publicly as soon as NP is over.

Don't do this either. Think about it. You investigate someone, they come up innocent, and you let everyone know that they're innocent, including scum. What happens next? That person is NK'd and we're down another innocent. If you ARE the investigator, we'll want the doctor to protect you every night so if you announce your findings you'd be hanging someone out to dry.

[slats]

I actually agree that Doggin isn't scum this time around, mainly because I see his frame of thinking. I know he's aggressive, but this time he was wrong on me.

I'm open to being TOLD who to investigate but I have a list of 4 people that I'll be checking out.

It should be part of the discussion, but in the end it's your choice. I think I'm on the same page as you with at least two of the guys you're thinking about looking at.

[Vicious89x]

Don't do this either. Think about it. You investigate someone, they come up innocent, and you let everyone know that they're innocent, including scum. What happens next? That person is NK'd and we're down another innocent. If you ARE the investigator, we'll want the doctor to protect you every night so if you announce your findings you'd be hanging someone out to dry.

Oh I'm not gonna tell innocents.

I'm talking about guilty findings. If someone is scum, I'm coming out firing obviously.

[Doggin94it]

so the real cop becomes outed and we don't act on it until he finds another scum? Vic would still be able to spread misinformation adn the outed cop can be read to guess who he's going to investigate

Again, whats the benefit to the town.

What?

Tomorrow, both cops show up and reveal their investigation results. One of which will be true, the other may be false (we'll know which is which once the real cop dies or the fake cop is outed). Both will likely be "innocents", but if either cop suggests another player is guilty, we lynch that player, no questions asked.

We continue in that pattern until:

a) the real cop investigates a player identified by the fake cop as "innocent" and gets a "guilty" verdict (in which case we lynch the misidentified player, then the fake);

the real cop identifies 2 more scum (in which case there's only one left, and we lynch the two finders seriatim to win the game); or

c) the real cop dies (doc misses the protection) and the fake cop gets lynched.

In any of those situations, we get the benefit of two finders (since a guilty result from either will be acted upon, while each "innocent" from the fake gives the real finder a chance to confirm himself), and we get the confirmation of the actual finder's innocent findings once the real finder is revealed.