New York Jets Mafia Game Thread

[Pac]

So did Pac though, and I didn't invest another 20 hours in that game..

Exposing you for the lying scum you were in that game was victory enough... the rest was gravy.

But I agree.. lets get back to figuring out what the deal is with Vic... Just because you were pathetic scum in that game doesn't mean you are in this one.. I'm watching you though.

[ZachEY]

Yup, I said it before that I literally wanted to take my ball and go home but have since decided to focus on the game and let this pass.

I believe this too. You're a huge baby.

[ZachEY]

last time I knew there wasn't a counter claimant until after I converted vic..

I know. Now you don't know (unless you're the cop), so why would you possibly suggest no counterclaim?

[CTM]

I believe this too. You're a huge baby.

[SMC]

0% chance..

I'm surprised it took this long though..

So you agree that 1 of the 3 Axis of Evil members is scum.

I chose you (but you disagree). So which one of EY and Doggin are scum in your opinion?

[Vicious89x]

I believe this too. You're a huge baby.

[CTM]

So you agree that 1 of the 3 Axis of Evil members is scum.

I chose you (but you disagree). So which one of EY and Doggin are scum in your opinion?

If I had to bet I'd say doggin, seeing as how he saw fit to out Vic when his hints were relatively subtle up till then. But neither of them have really raised my ire yet..

[ZachEY]

and btw, EY knew that was my plan from the get go, so I'm having a hard time swallowing his comparing this to that last game. Unless he's imagining that I am once again scum with a requirement to be last man standing who can also convert a single innocent player and Vic just happens to be cop again who foolishly role revealed at L-5 on day 2 (and yes I'm aware the last 2 parts are likely true)

I will under no circumstances be counter claiming cop this game. Better

No, I simply can't understand why you wouldnt want a counterclaim. At this point, we'd have scum between one of two players.

The real cop might die in the process, but isn't it worth it that meant putting two scum in the bag day quickly?

Who/what are you protecting here?

[CTM]

No, I simply can't understand why you wouldnt want a counterclaim. At this point, we'd have scum between one of two players.

The real cop might die in the process, but isn't it worth it that meant putting two scum in the bag day quickly?

Who/what are you protecting here?

What's the rush? If Vic is lieing, it's a death sentance for him anyway. Exposing the real cop now only accelerates that process.

If a counter claimaint does come forward, we ain't lynching either of them anyway, but the mafia will know who the cop is..

[slats]

I serious doubt all 3 of the Axis of Evil are innocent. I'll bet on one, the one trying to lay groundwork against others.

Vote: CTM

For what it's worth, I agree with you here on both points.

No, I simply can't understand why you wouldnt want a counterclaim. At this point, we'd have scum between one of two players.

The real cop might die in the process, but isn't it worth it that meant putting two scum in the bag day quickly?

Who/what are you protecting here?

That was my take. I realize we'd probably lose our cop in the process, but getting the scum team down to two players quickly seems worth it to me.

[CTM]

For what it's worth, I agree with you here on both points.

That was my take. I realize we'd probably lose our cop in the process, but getting the scum team down to two players quickly seems worth it to me.

Again, what's the rush? Why sacrifice the cop now to eliminate a dead man walking (if Vic is lieing)

[Doggin94it]

If I had to bet I'd say doggin, seeing as how he saw fit to out Vic when his hints were relatively subtle up till then. But neither of them have really raised my ire yet..

Subtle?? When people were saying that he had "role claimed having a role to claim"?

BTW, if I was mafia [and knew vicious to be innocent], I wouldn't out vicious on-thread. What would be the point (beyond making sure he had doctor protection)? I'd just NK him and hope the doc hadn't caught on or was still too suspicious of Vicious to protect him (something you suggested a little bit ago, btw)

[ZachEY]

What's the rush? If Vic is lieing, it's a death sentance for him anyway. Exposing the real cop now only accelerates that process.

If a counter claimaint does come forward, we ain't lynching either of them anyway, but the mafia will know who the cop is..

The rush is, Vic could wait a day or two, turn over his teammate, and basically earn everyone's trust. Then, he gains another few days because the real cop is probably going to get whacked first if he counter claims, and Vic gets to live another 4-5 days, easy. With two NKs, that's enough time to win, IMO.

[CTM]

Subtle?? When people were saying that he had "role claimed having a role to claim"?

BTW, if I was mafia [and knew vicious to be innocent], I wouldn't out vicious on-thread. What would be the point (beyond making sure he had doctor protection)? I'd just NK him and hope the doc hadn't caught on or was still too suspicious of Vicious to protect him (something you suggested a little bit ago, btw)

You read his post clearing slats as a scum tell, I knew it meant he either did or was going to say he investigated slats. I didn't want Vic to be forced into claiming in hopes that it wasn't noticed..

I'm not even talking about this "let me get a last word in" post..

[slats]

What's the rush? If Vic is lieing, it's a death sentance for him anyway. Exposing the real cop now only accelerates that process.

If a counter claimaint does come forward, we ain't lynching either of them anyway, but the mafia will know who the cop is..

Say we have that counterclaimant, though, and he gets NK'd tonight and confirmed as a result. Vic is then lynched by the first six townies who log on in the next day phase, and the scum is down to two players. It's not a terrible trade. It's like the cop revealing to get a confirmed scum lynched.

If a "real cop" hides out until he gets a confirmed guilty (for instance), then we go thru the cop drama a couple days from now and then hope to lynch that confirmed scum. With a NK'er out there, a couple days could whittle the townies down too far to do anything about it by then.

[CTM]

The rush is, Vic could wait a day or two, turn over his teammate, and basically earn everyone's trust. Then, he gains another few days because the real cop is probably going to get whacked first if he counter claims, and Vic gets to live another 4-5 days, easy. With two NKs, that's enough time to win, IMO.

And again, zombie game, vic turned over a teammate and was still whacked when counterclaimed. There's no basis in truth for this doomsday scenario..

I just don't see the rush, let it play out for a few days and see if we can catch two instead of immediately offering our cop in return for Vic.

(and again, this is theoretical cause I am buying Vic's claim)

[Vicious89x]

The other thing you do is have the scum lay low and after night phase them pop up and say "VICIOUS IS GUILTY, I'VE INVESTIGATED"

Chances are I might come back with an innocent tonight.

[CTM]

Say we have that counterclaimant, though, and he gets NK'd tonight and confirmed as a result. Vic is then lynched by the first six townies who log on in the next day phase, and the scum is down to two players. It's not a terrible trade. It's like the cop revealing to get a confirmed scum lynched.

And if a real cop turns up dead tonight in a NK, we know Vic is lieing anyway and lynch him

If a "real cop" hides out until he gets a confirmed guilty (for instance), then we go thru the cop drama a couple days from now and then hope to lynch that confirmed scum. With a NK'er out there, a couple days could whittle the townies down too far to do anything about it by then.

If a real cop comes forward with a guilty 2 days from now I should think that would be ideal. We'd have caught our third scum.

[SMC]

For what it's worth, I agree with you here on both points.

If you agree with me, why are still voting for me?

What purpose does your vote against me serve?

Doggin based his vote on cleaning out the suspicious ones, but how is it that I am more suspicious than the members of the Axis of Evil, all 3 trying to stear a vote one way or another?

[Doggin94it]

If you agree with me, why are still voting for me?

What purpose does your vote against me serve?

Doggin based his vote on cleaning out the suspicious ones, but how is it that I am more suspicious than the members of the Axis of Evil, all 3 trying to stear a vote one way or another?

Oh, is that how you role?

I'm not sure why:

1) you think one of the 3 of us must be evil in each game (odds are, there'll be games when we aren't - not sure if this is one of them)

2) You expect us to do anything else other than advocating for where we think the most useful lynch will be.

Aside from which, we seem to actually be focusing on whether a cop should counterclaim if Vic is false (YES!) not on trying to "steer" a lynch.

So, random Axis of Evil appelation aside, I don't get your point here.

[Doggin94it]

Oh , 10 pages to catch up on. Might take a minute.

Been an hour and a half. Where're you at?

[ZachEY]

And again, zombie game, vic turned over a teammate and was still whacked when counterclaimed. There's no basis in truth for this doomsday scenario..

I just don't see the rush, let it play out for a few days and see if we can catch two instead of immediately offering our cop in return for Vic.

(and again, this is theoretical cause I am buying Vic's claim)

Because with two NKers, there's a decent chance the 'real cop' can get plugged at random tonight or tomorrow night if the SK isn't taken down.

[ZachEY]

Because with two NKers, there's a decent chance the 'real cop' can get plugged at random tonight or tomorrow night if the SK isn't taken down.

Obviously this would give us Vic, but it'd also very possibly prevent the other cop from getting a chance to investigate further w/ doc protection.

[slats]

If a real cop comes forward with a guilty 2 days from now I should think that would be ideal. We'd have caught our third scum.

Depending on our skills at lynching, and where the NK'er aims, in two days we could be down up to 6 townies. The game would be close to over at that point and we'd have to now figure out which cop is telling the truth. That could take another day or two. By then, it would probably be too late.

No. If there's a townie out here who can counter claim Vic, now's the time to do it.

[Vicious89x]

IMO I think we're getting to deep into the "what if" scenarios. If someone is gonna lie and counter claim please do it now. Otherwise I say we need to move forward.

[CTM]

Because with two NKers, there's a decent chance the 'real cop' can get plugged at random tonight or tomorrow night if the SK isn't taken down.

Yes, and there's also a decent chance the real doc can get plugged tonight or tomorrow protecting either of them.

And with an exposed cop that is his death sentence as well. If the cop's hidden, then the odds of him staying alive improve...

There is no 100% right or wrong way here, suggesting that one way is right and the other a scumtell is essentially applying a blanket rule to a situation that there are no rules for. I'd prefer to wait a day or two and let is play out

[Dan.]

Been an hour and a half. Where're you at?

Norway and Pac both I'd like to hear more from. Pac disappeared after gently sparring with CTM, and when he was around he didn't offer much of substance except to say he was keeping his vote on AVM because he didn't see much scummy from anyone else.

[CTM]

Depending on our skills at lynching, and where the NK'er aims, in two days we could be down up to 6 townies. The game would be close to over at that point and we'd have to now figure out which cop is telling the truth. That could take another day or two. By then, it would probably be too late.

No. If there's a townie out here who can counter claim Vic, now's the time to do it.

Lynch skills? Who cares at the point? Lynch the new cops guilty, if he is guilty you lynch vic next, no questions asked. With 3 scum dead, and the last likely a godfather (we've had them in almost every game), the cop is useless anyway at that point.

[SMC]

Oh, is that how you role?

I'm not sure why:

1) you think one of the 3 of us must be evil in each game (odds are, there'll be games when we aren't - not sure if this is one of them)

2) You expect us to do anything else other than advocating for where we think the most useful lynch will be.

Aside from which, we seem to actually be focusing on whether a cop should counterclaim if Vic is false (YES!) not on trying to "steer" a lynch.

So, random Axis of Evil appelation aside, I don't get your point here.

Does JN even have a spell check feature? Because I need it.

1) Odds of the Axis of Evil all being innocent. These aren't blind odds here. There's a moderator involved. Although Bleedin claims that the roles are given randomly, he wants a good game. Have all 3 of you on either side is a serious disadvantage to the otherside. Thus, the moderator would likely make an adjustment.

2) Of course the Axis of Evil advocates. That's why you 3 are a danger. You manipulate, you "steer" players in certain directions. You're Pied Pipers. You steer the town to the most "useful" lynch, but useful for whom? That's the thing. You can manipulate the town into voting for players you know is innocent (if you're scum).

3) The Vic-counterclaim issue is a tangent. It's a debate outside of the actual voting. All 3 of you have cast votes already. You've chosen your intended victims.

[Jets Things]

Depending on our skills at lynching, and where the NK'er aims, in two days we could be down up to 6 townies. The game would be close to over at that point and we'd have to now figure out which cop is telling the truth. That could take another day or two. By then, it would probably be too late.

No. If there's a townie out here who can counter claim Vic, now's the time to do it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is that a good idea?

[Dan.]

Oh, is that how you role?

I'm not sure why:

1) you think one of the 3 of us must be evil in each game (odds are, there'll be games when we aren't - not sure if this is one of them)

2) You expect us to do anything else other than advocating for where we think the most useful lynch will be.

Aside from which, we seem to actually be focusing on whether a cop should counterclaim if Vic is false (YES!) not on trying to "steer" a lynch.

So, random Axis of Evil appelation aside, I don't get your point here.

My question is, would having all three of you on the town's side count as one of those scenarios where the mod would have to tweak things? I think the scum would be starting out at a disadvantage if they were starting out without one of you.

[ZachEY]

There is no 100% right or wrong way here, suggesting that one way is right and the other a scumtell is essentially applying a blanket rule to a situation that there are no rules for. I'd prefer to wait a day or two and let is play out

I don't think it's a scum tell at all........................

I just think its wrong.

[CTM]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is that a good idea?

It's not. Not yet anyway.

On day 5, depending on the spread, then maybe. Now all it's doing is exchanging a cop for a dead man walking (If Vic is lieing he will be caught and lynched eventually)

[ZachEY]

1) Odds of the Axis of Evil all being innocent. These aren't blind odds here. There's a moderator involved. Although Bleedin claims that the roles are given randomly, he wants a good game. Have all 3 of you on either side is a serious disadvantage to the otherside. Thus, the moderator would likely make an adjustment.

I don't think we've ever actually all played in the same game.

Also, I don't know why you insist on leaving yourself out of the Axis, ROBOCOP, you're practically North Korea.

[slats]

Lynch skills? Who cares at the point? Lynch the new cops guilty, if he is guilty you lynch vic next, no questions asked. With 3 scum dead, and the last likely a godfather (we've had them in almost every game), the cop is useless anyway at that point.

You've completely skimmed over the point that two days from now, we could be down to six townies and three scum. Or five townies, three scum, and one SK. So if that day we successfully lynch the new cop's guilty, we go into the night phase and lose two more town. That leaves three. Lynch Vic, night phase kills two more townies. Town loses.

That's a worst case scenario, but clearly the NK'er doesn't leave us much room for error.